Narsingha

There are NO English "translations" of Dasam Guru Durbar. Those texts that do exist are "interpretations" of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh Ji's baani from the Singh Sabha perspective, and do not do justice to the Gurbani. The interpretations that exist, such as those by Randhir Singh, Dharam Singh, Kohli, etc., lack certain Baani (as you have stated). As such, these works are not complete. Kohli's latest interpretation, for example, is extremely sterile and ignores the existance of Charitropakhyaan. I suggest that you learn Punjabi and get the Dasam Guru Durbar Steek in Punjabi by Pandit Narayan Singh (available in 8 or 10 volumes). This is the closest anyone will get to fully explaining the Gurbani within Dasam Guru Durbar without going to the Budha Dal and getting Santhia.

I wish Baba Thakur Singh Ji the very best of health and a speedy recovery.

Also, while we are on this subject, I wish to pose another set of questions for the sake of seeking the truth. If the lineage of 'Dam Dami Taksal' can be proven to be as stated on their websites, then why did they abandon the traditions of one of their OWN 'Mahapursh' Jathedars? Akali Nihang Baba Gurbax Singh, is known to have eaten meat and consumed Sukha and opium in his lifetime, and adorned Akali Nihang Singh uniform (see http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...pic.php?t=1903) For reference, I quote again: 'Listening [to the coming of the Afghans] the Singhs got ready. They adorned weapons and chain mail on their bodies. They did chatka [killing with one blow] of goats and drank goblets of opium and Sukha. Gurbux Singh was the groom, and the others, the wedding party.' ('Naveen Panth Prakash', Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, Bhasha Vihbhag, Pa. 928) ‘Listen to the story of Gurbakhsh Singh Nihang and learn. Attained well did he, martyrdom at Amritsar. He was a Nihang and a great warrior. Wore he blue dress and kept the conduct well. Waking in the morning he drank Sukha. Becoming intoxicated he brushed his teeth.’ (‘Pracheen Panth Prakash’,1832 ,Expurgated by Vir Singh Pa.414) And a painting of Akali Nihang Baba Gurbax Singh, as present on the 'Dam Dami Taksal' website: The 'Dam Dami Taksal' affiliated Sikhs are known for their FULL belief in the words of their own Jathedars. To them there is NO doubt that the Mahapurshs of 'Dam Dami Taksal' can be incorrect. As proven many a time, the words of the 'Dam Dami Taksal' Mahapurshs are considered to be 100% truth by their followers. Those who disagree are considered as not having faith in Sikhism, or as occured in the Midlands approx a month ago (see Des Pardes for the full article), some individuals even chose to use violence to silence those who speak out against the 'Dam Dami Taksal'. The questions that arise are: a) given this 100% faith in the Mahapurshs of the 'Dam Dami Taksal' by their followers, why have they gone AGAINST the practices of one of their most famous Jathedars, Akali Nihang Baba Gurbax Singh, and abandoned traditions such as Chatka and Sukha? why do the Sikhs of the 'Dam Dami Taksal' advocate vegetarianism and ban ALL intoxicants (see the 'Dam Dami Taksal' website for their 'Rehit Maryada') c) Are the 'Dam Dami Taksal' themselves violating the practices of their own Jathedar by speaking out AGAINST Sukha/opium (ie, by banning all forms of intoxicants) d) According to the 'Dam Dami Taksal', did Akali Nihang Baba Gurbax Singh and his Singhs violate the 'Dam Dami Taksal' Rehit Maryada by doing 'Chatka' and 'drinking goblets of opium and sukha' (as mentioned the quotes above)? e) If the 'Dam Dami Taksal' affiliated Sikhs consider the quotes above to be incorrect, then why do they utilise these very texts for purposes of Katha? f) Finally, considering the Akali Nihang lineage that the 'Dam Dami Taksal' claim to possess, I assume that traditions such as Shastar Vidiya are also present as the 'Taksal' afterall is a school of Sikh traditions, and one tradition that a Singh should possess is that of Shastar Vidiya. For the sake of increasing vidiya amongst the Panth, could the 'Dam Dami Taksal' Sikhs please put me in touch with their current Shastar Vidiya Gurdev so that I may pass his details onto Nihang Niddar Singh? It would be excellent to compare notes and see how their Shastar Vidiya differs from that of Akali Nihang Baba Durbar Singh Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Akhara. Thats all for now... PS: I hope this will not turn into another anti-Nihang thread. The focus of this thread, as suggested by the title is "Lifes for Damdami Taksal Mahapursh's" - and Akali Nihang Baba Gurbax Singh was one such Mahapursh (according to the lineage given by 'Dam Dami Taksal' on their websites) who's amazing life is being discussed...

Kam, if this is the case, then Baba Gurbachan Singh has contradicted himself because in his own text, Gurmat Rehit Maryada, he gives quite a different perspective as to who the rightful heirs to Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh Ji's lineage are. Let me know if you find the katha... Thanks again

No one as yet has accused anyone of propagating lies. In addition, you must be aware that 'katha' also tends to be based on historical texts. I have never come across any text or historical document mentioned by any of the Kathakaars of 'Dam Dami Taksal' that speaks of their lineage. The lineage of Jathedars may be clear to people who wish to accept the words of individuals without questioning where these individuals got their information, but some people wish to dig deeper for the truth. Call it morbid curiousity for seeking the truth. Baba Sundar Singh and Baba Gurbachan Singh never spoke of this lineage in their works. If such a lineage did exist, why was such an important fact not mentioned in the numerous texts attributed to these great souls? Only 'Dam Dami Taksal Ithihas Sankhep', a text produced after the death of Baba Gurbachan Singh Khalsa mentiones this lineage, and even so, it does not refer to ANY historical document (either from 'Dam Dami Taksal' or otherwise) prior to its publication that speaks of this lineage. Considering this lineage contains some great names, such as Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh Shaheed, Akali Nihang Baba Gurbux Singh Shaheed, Baba Harnam Singh Bedi, etc, it is a surprise that the 'Dam Dami Taksal' is not mentioned in: a) Suraj Prakash Granth Gurbilas Dasmi c) Pracheen Panth Prakash d) Naveen Panth Prakash e) Mahan Kosh f) Sikh Sampardvali ...or indeed any text prior to the publication of 'Dam Dami Taksal Ithihas Sankhep'. These texts mentioned above even mention relatively minor sects such as Sutra Shahis, Gulab Rahiea, etc. yet the 'Dam Dami Taksal' is not spoken of. Perhaps the mighty intellectuals of 'Dam Dami Taksal' can point us to their sources of where this lineage is documented and explain why the 'Dam Dami Taksal' was not mentioned by ANY historican (Sikh or non-Sikh) before the publication of their own text by Baba Kartar Singh. This isnt a 'dig' at anyone, just a quest for the truth. If we as Sikhs are able to substantiate our history then we are more likely to succeed in the future for our foundations will be based on turth, and as such will be more secure. Ta...

There are cases within Nihang history which tell of Nihangs adopting names of their enemy's enemy... One case recalls of a Nihang arrested for "causing disturbance" in a town in Punjab during the early 1940s. At the time, the British were busy fighting the Germans and recruiting young Sikhs from Punjab into the army. When asked by the Judge what his name was, the veteran Nihang replied "Adolf Hilter Singh".

I'm gald we have experts such as N30Singh online. Well done....perhaps the rest of us may learn how to control ourselves the next time we are possessed by demons.

I guess its time I explained what an Ayurvedic Acharya is before you carrying on making a muppet of yourself. An Ayurvedic Acharya refers to an invidiual who is skilled in Ayurveda. Some who specialise in 'Grahha Chikittsa' diagnose problems related to demons, pyschology and psychiatry. They will presribe methods that help the individual on the road to inner peace and spirituality. For example, if the individual is 'Sikh', one technique utilised is reading scripture that is calming and soothing, such as Sukhmani Sahib, Anand Sahib, Mool Mantra, or sing Kirtan in the correct 'Raag' that stimulates calm and 'Shaant Ras'. Anyway, thats just one treatment of many. Btw, the Sikh Gurus were all practitioners of Ayurveda in some form or another and much of their life was based upon Ayurvedic principles. In addition, Baba Teja Singh Nirmala and Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Gurdev Nihang Baba Ram Singh (as featured on the Sanatan Sikh websites) are acknowledged Ayurvedic Acharayas. Ayurveda is not as anti-Sikh as you may think. I'd be interested to see what advice people come up with on this thread, and then compare this to methods of treatment advocated in Ayurveda.

Perhaps if you knew what an Ayurvedic Acharya does then you wouldnt have come out with such a lame statement... :roll: Such incidents are well documented in Indian medical and spiritually inclined literature.

Visit the nearest Ayurvedic Acharya who is skilled in the arts of 'Grahha Chikittsa'.

Just a minor query Where exactly (texts, documents, records, etc) is this lineage of 'Dam Dami Taksal' actually documented? In other words, what is the historically credible source used by the 'Dam Dami Taksal' to verify their lineage?

http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/khand.html

http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/nanak5.html

Kam, drop me an email and we can sort something out info@shastarvidiya.org

Agreed....flexible enough to absorb blows, strong enough not to break off..

Yes, I agree with Kulbir Singh (on Tapoban) that "The spirit of Singhnees described in this article is amazing." The quote, as translated from Giani Gian Singh's works into English by Nihang Niddar Singh and Nihang Teja Singh can be found on http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/warrior_women_missl.html which also has some pictures of what these women would have looked like..

jtsingh A grishti udasi appears to be a contradiction in terms. I suppose a question that arises could be, when does an Udhasi cease to become an udhasi? Or for that matter, when does a Nirmala cease to become a Nirmala? Speaking from a strictly Ayurvedic point of view, a diet that contains 'tamas' (eg alcohol or meat) would be ill-advised if the individual is not physically or dynamic. As such, I find it hard to accept that Nirmalas, Udasis, and Sewa panthis would advocate eating tamsic foods considering their comparatively (cf Nihangs) non-physical nature and sattvick lifestyles.

jTSingh, from your statement I assume that according to you, Nirmalas, Udhasis and Sewa Panthis abstain from eating meat, and consuming shaheedi degh? If this is the case, why do some Nirmaley claim that eating meat is acceptable within their maryada? Enlighten us pls...with evidence/examples if possible.

Kam, could you please let me know who has done the English translation of Sarbloh Guru Durbar?

Host: Many out there, do a search on Google. Some charge per bandwidth (ie, traffic), some charge per space. Bandwidth is important if content is heavy duty. For heavy duty content, unlimited bandwidth is recommended. For light, text-based content, bandwidth charged packages are a better bet. Points to take into consideration: a) Space - how much do you need and how much will you need (think ahead) Features, eg, PhP, MySQL, email boxes, media streaming, Perl, CGI, SSL, iASP, RealMedia, etc..what are you likely to use, and how much. c) Speed/quality of servers and bandwidth d) Security of servers (are you allowed to make extra mods) e) IP tracking, stats, etc (...feedback from your site may be important if its a commercial venture) f) Track record of host - helps if you avoid the ones with bad reps, or the ones who constantly get hacked g) UNIX/Linux, VMS, Sun, or Windows based servers - out of these OpenVMS-based servers are by far the best (it helps if u work on them too hehe), followed by Sun, then UNIX/Linux (Apache), and Windows at the bottom of the list. OpenVMS are best as they are virtually impossible to hack, provide great speed, and are even used in the military and intelligence agencies around the world due to their reliability. Webdesigning: a) Best to learn HTML, dHTML and Javascript yourself. These are the very basics. Get a copy of Dreamweaver (lots of versions available). It makes for easier website creation/designing and uploading your site to your server. Lots of online tutorials to teach you this stuff. For interactive content it may be helpful to consider PhP, MySQL, Java, Flash, Director, and Shockwave. c) Graphics work - Photoshop, Flash and Fireworks are tools of choice, but there are some great pieces of freeware software too Practice makes perfect. Also consider the following points: a) Your audience and their access to the net. A complex website will be too complicated to navigate Keep it simple. Webdesigners have a tendency to make website too flashy, too "cool", and end up trying to compete with TV. c) Your content should be the most important thing - the website is a tool to deliver it d) Presentation is key, and this should be thought out properly, ie, colour schemes, etc e) Always consider that you may want to update the site constantly so make it easier for yourself and consider a modular design. f) Dont use technology for the sake of using it. Any monkey can use all technologies out there, but is it worth it? g) Stick to a theme - graphics, content, bckgrounds, buttons, etc are more appealing if you stick to a theme. Hope that helps.

Sarbloh Guru Durbar Steek (Punjabi) by Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh ji is available in 2 volumes from DTF, Chattar Singh Jeevan Singh, Sikh Missionary, etc. It is based on a translation done by Akali Nihang Nurang Singh Ji in the late 1800s/early 1900s.

Initially in English, and later the Punjabi version too.

I had assumed Amrit Pal Singh was bringing out his version of the text. However, the entire text - "Sri Hazoori Maryada Prabodh" by Sriman 108 Sant Baba Jaginder Singh Ji will be coming soon on www.sarbloh.info along with commentary on it by prominant Akali Nihang Singhs... Just be patient...

Pls send me Nihang Gurmant Singh's numder when you have it...and we'll take things from there. Nihang Niddar Singh doesnt mind anyone asking him questions on any topic...if anything, he welcomes discussion and debates...as long as there is mutual sharing of knowledge and not a grudge match.

I was impressed by the underlying theme of Brahmin conspiracy theories...worthy of an Oscar nomination.