Sukdev Singh Jhamka

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh dear cyber sangat ji could any one help me with email address or telephone numbers for either sikh societies or sikh organisation in New York. Ive got a friend going to the USA and they want to meet up with sikh students and sikh organisations. Email me on sukdevsinghjhamka@yahoo.com Thanks in advance sukdev

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh Veerji challenge everything Some off ur info is totally wrong, guess u to seem to wanna wipe away the sins off budha dal (santa singh group). History is testimony to what happened and u cant hide from the truth that the budha dal faction off Sikhs did nothing during the burning hell fires of Punjab in the 80’s 90’s and even now. There is ample evidence that santa singh did not take park in the Dharam Yudh Morcha,( video footage from the bachan of Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa spokes off santa singh not going the quam to get their rightful demands which we are in the process of putting on the web) . I bet santa singh would tell u himself he was against the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Yes other Nihangs ie Baba Bidi Chand jatha (Baba Daya Singh sursingh Wale), Baba Nihal Singh Taran Dal etc took a massive part I bow my head to them even though u regard me as a fanatical Damdami Taksaalwale even though I could not clean the shoes off these great warriors. quote Wasn't Shaheed Avtaar Singh Ji Brahma a singh of the Buddha Dal who killed anyone who touched the honour of our sisters our desecrated our Gurdwaras??? Its easy to parrot read history about this singh or that singh. Do u know Shaheed General Avtar Singh Brahams back ground, guess not he was not one off santa singhs boyz, he was a Nihang from Baba Bidi Chand jatha, he was donated to the freedom struggle by the jatha as many more Nihangs singhs were, Shaheed General Brahma was Jathadar first off the Tat Khalsa jatha after 1984 then went on to set up one of the most fierce some jatha Khalistan Liberation Force, Baba Bidi Chand jatha was the jatha that gave Sant Kartar Singh ji Khalsa money and shelter in the early days am sure they gave part off the land for the Damdami Taksaal HQ. So lets not give santa singh credit, it was yes Nihang singhs but the REAL ones not the fake one sitting on there asses. Santji bodyguards Shaheed Bhai Surinder Singh Sodhi, General Manvir Singh founder of the Khalistan Commando Force where ex Nihangs to. There are countless sacrifices made by Gursikh from every walk off life, we dnt dubt or disrespect or critise them. We on about the socalled leadership the ship sailing with a ruder comes to mind, the budha dal need to sort themselves out. Quote As lalleshvari ji said.....the new moto of the fanatic damdami taksalis OF THE UK is that if there is any problem within the panth blame it on the Nihangs. Dnt give urself too much credit it uk nihangs as ur not worth the hassle, u not that a big problem, the bigger problem is the youth are going away from sikhi and instead of working around how we going to improve our jeevan and to improve others and help the human race to be tolerant and truthful. We are going around distorting our beliefs and history condemning the Shaheeds, it was not the fantical Damdami Taksaal that started this war off words, it was not the Damdami Taksaal that wants to clear from the minds what has been done to US in the past 50 odd years. As with the taksaal having now quarrel with the Nihangs even the santa sing jatha its true, we dnt have any quarrel on a personal level, but when it comes to the Panth then it’s a different thing. Depends on how u ask the question and what u wana hear. It was the same Damdami Taksaal that excommunicated santa singh on the 26th Jan 1986. Ask baba ji what he thinks off santa singh when his down later in june or better still we will record it and put it on our website just to please those who keep asking for proof. There is a lot off good out there, but if we are going to be honest lets look at what went wrong, yea be self critical but lets not try to hood wink the poor young ppl that come on here and try to give a one sided view off our history. I not like sitting here typing away when I could be helping some person or giving some encouragement to someone.. Sorry for the long reply Peace sukdev

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh If we go by our past history Baba Gurbaskh Singh Ji Shaheed the 2nd Jathadar of Damdami Taksaal fought at Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib Ji, was he wrong to fight there???? am sure in our beautifull history there countless places where the sikhs fought battles that were in civilian areas i guess the neo nihangs ukwale (not all nihangs are bad) wud say that the sikhs were wrong first u lot go to battle and then tell me all the actions u did and ur battle planes........ the budha dal have not to this day taken any part in any morchas or forget about protecting Sri Darbar Sahib they couldnt protect the poor sikhs in delhi and india in nov 1984. Guess its the same mind mentality we know BEST. Sant ji done what he thought was best at the time and GUESS what he was RIGHT as the attack awoke the sleeping tiger and the roaw was heard world wide as the saying going BHINDRANWALE SANT SOAPHY JIN SUTHI QUAM JAGGUY (bhindranwale sant solider wake the sleeping nation) history is proof to this we would not be here and the countless Shaheeds who gave their heads in the 70's, 80's 90's and even today the warriors roam the fields off punjab. The battle field has changed AWAKE SINGHOO AND SINGHINOO i pay homage to the Shaheeds i will not pay disrespect to them or question them, they did what was right at the time. What r we doing??? playing internet wars. its sad we can debate and in a cunnig way have a go at Sant ji and the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Its the same ppl we know who they are but boyz u only making it worse for urself.

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh well said veerji sukhbir singh, guess the truth hurts, but u can hide from the fact that this CD is doing the rounds and going out to ppl who wouldnot even wanna know about sikhi. so well done the makers of the cd. dhan guru ji dhan thera panth khalsa never forget 84 ak47 wale

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh Its so sad that Sikhs are so ready to blame Sant Jarnail Singh ji for his lack of military awareness and being naive and the pain and suffering of the Sikhs in 84 etc, that’s all BS , Gursikhs who have lived and done any sort off research on the jeeven of Sant ji and his up bringing ie living a life of a SAINT/SOLDIER will now what a true inspiration he is and will be for time to come. Let’s do our research We can make all the excuses we want about the singhs & singhina off 84, but when the time came to give their HEAD to Guruji they gave it with out a thought for themselves or their loved ones. Can we blame all those purtan Gursikhs (who fought battles) for the suffering off the Sikhs in the old days?, we can God forbid blame Guruji saying they took the wrong road and fought against evil instead Guruji should have comprised and not lead Sikhs into battle and endless suffering??? The list is endless. I don’t come on much here but the internet is so dangerous new Sikhs coming on and reading the type of views about 1984 and Santji could be fooled into thinking that its all the Sikhs fault, just because their seems to be a anti 84 bias on the net now a days, guess the antis have got more time to write long winded explanations, as the ones pro are busy trying to help the Shaheeds families and the Sant/Saphis. Heres a link into the government massacre of Sikhs in Kashmir, there is loads off evidence that the intelligent agencies do all sorts to win the propaganda war. Just look what happened in Madrid where the government knowing full well it was al qaeda who did the bombing but was ready to blame ETA. Any way ppl do ur research on the topic off 84 before taking anyone’s views off the net even mine. Rupy Heres some links u might wana look up on the massacre of the Sikhs in Kashmir There loads out there read the british press and amnesty international rather then the Indian press. Ive got more links but not got the time hopefully if u do a search u will find what the kashmiri Sikhs are saying to plus there was a report by a human rights body from Punjab that too pointed the finger at the Indian gov. I dnt want to get in to who right or wrong, just my thoughts and sharing with my fellow gursikhs. Its up to u which way u go, may Guruji bless us with a vision and may we walk the path of Sikhi without fright or anger Take care This is a Amnesty Internation report on Kashmir shaheeds http://www.amnesty.org.uk/deliver/document/13308.html heres a general one on Punjab http://www.amnesty.org.uk/deliver/document/14298.html BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2131602.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1862414.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/sou...000/1862414.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/717043.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/704436.stm

vahegurujikakhalsa vahegurjikifateh For a start I dnt need separate identities matey unlike some ppl look in the mirror what do u see?? That’s right well let the Sangat work that out. All I said was instead off sitting on ur FAT ass do sum thing positive, not as an individual but a collective. Keep crying about the Gursikh khalistanis at least they have got off the asses and done something WHAT HAVE U DONE OR UR MATES the UK NIHANGS?? Dnt see u lot over there protesting with ur so-called gursikhs mates or r they busy in the clubs off London?? And I dnt agree with the protests I rather prefer DIRTECT ACTION Yes ur very cynical and a sad idiot I think all that reading has got to ur head, try doing some langar the sewa instead off eating it. Guruji given us a pair off hands am sure we dnt need the hindian govt to support us then again u and ur buddies are blind to the suffering of the Sikhs in hindia too. Good luck with ur effort and DM dnt worry ive got the ur ardaas benti topic and am sure Guruji will hear ur Ardaas when we see each other and by the way no valentines programs this year lol AKAAAL DEG TEG FATEH NEVER FORGET 84 Sukdev singh

vahegurujikakhalsa vahegurujikifateh veerji that was such a amazing post, so much love for sikhi those singhs had, they faced death yet they didnot bow their head before the tyrants. may guruji give us the prem for sikhi they had and be half the singhs they were akaal dhan guruji dhan thera panth khalsa never forget 84

vahegurujikakhalsa vahegurjikifateh dear gursikhs brothers and sistas we seem to hear a lot off hot air from certain ppl on here, when it comes to doing things ie something positive for the quam we get ppl saying I know better and done this that and everything under the sun. Well less talk and get ur ass down to paris and try and do sum thing for the sikhs of France instead off criticising and mocking others who have at least tried. It’s easy to sit on ur fat ass and make statements and labelling other Sikhs as TERRORISTS and ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS one would think it was a right wing nutter who was saying these sweeping statements not a fellow sikh. As for fights in the Gurdwara ive stayed in paris and know the singhs there and they seem to get on with each other as shown in the demo last weekend at least they got 3000 sikhs there when there is only about 5000 sikhs in the whole of France while the demo my the Muslim community of 5 MILLION got 10000 ppl. Look at the positives rather then bash our fellow brothers and sistas The Sikhs in France are in a learning curve it’s their first battle to get established, hopefully they will learn how to deal with the French establishment and with Guru ji kirpa we will win as all ways we do. If u got some thing to offer them go and give ur expert help they are crying for French speaking Sikhs don’t just bash them for trying. Most of the Gursikhs out in France have done active service back home so don’t worry they can handle themselves. Well I did not got on the demo but I will not criticise fellow Sikhs who are trying and engaging themselves to do sewa for Sikhi. We love to bash the gursikhs who put their life on hold and take the path guruji wants us to take. One more benti do Ardaas for these Gursikhs who did the great escape wow that was amazing Guruji’s Kirpa Akaaaaaal Take care Sukdev singh

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh bhenji i think thats the best thing we sikhs living abroad can do is to inter mix and spread the pyaar for them, show the children that there are people who care and we not forgotten the shaheedi off the parents. you can take materials from here toys, education material. what i will do is chat to some people in the field and get back too u. when are u thinking off going?? just pm me gur fateh sukdev singh

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh bhenji good to see people out there still willing to go home to do sewa for the shaheeds families. There are a few orphanages out there like the Saheb ke sewak trust, Mata Sahib Kaur trust in patiala, gur Aasra is run my Bhai Dhami and his singhni not Bhai Sahib Fauja Singhs singhni. U can also visit the Damdami Taksaal and get address of families who have lost loved ones. one word off warning bhenji, first check the orphanages see if they are doing what there should be and that they are not over flowing with cash. Be cautous as people have had their fingers burnt. SAHEB KE SEWAK TRUST (Regd.) (An Educational and Social Welfare Project) Saheb Ke Sewak is a registered organisation: It is a non-profit, non-political, educational and social welfare project. Origin: Many children in Punjab are facing extreme trauma and displacement due to the conflict in the state. We, along with human rights activists, worked on a project, which was designed to provide relief to these orphaned children. There were two main categories of children. Firstly, those who lost either parents or the parent who sustained the family and were completely displaced from their community. Secondly, those who lost either parent or the parent who sustained the family but found shelter with relatives. In the second case, the financial position of the relatives was generally extremely poor and they could barely manage their own children let alone the additional displaced child. The second situation seems optimal for children facing such severe trauma. The child would have greater chance of overcoming his/her trauma by staying within a family environment. However, in most cases the relatives who wanted to support the child could not do so because of their own financial situation. Given these circumstances it was felt that a means should be found to help such children succeed in life without disturbing their family environment and further their possibilities in life. This scheme also has the added advantage that it avoids costs such as renting accommodation and hiring full-time staff. In Sept. 1997 as an initial experiment, we identified 22 such children who were in need of help and provided them basic monthly assistance vary between Rs. 300/- to Rs. 500/- to cover their educational expenses. Encouraged by the progress that we had made, and confident that our work would benefit more children the Saheb Ke Sewak trust was set up as a registered charity in April 1998. Aims: The Saheb Ke Sewak Trust has four main aims: * Educational Assistance: One of our aims is to provide educational assistance, which cover costs such as school fees, uniforms, transportation and stationery. The trust also runs a Sponsorship Scheme enabling interested parties/ organisations/ individual to sponsor a child. The trust is in contact with victim families and has assessed the quantum of assistance required by their children. The money provided by the sponsor pays for the child's education or vocational training , and in return we send four regular updates in a year informing the sponsor of the progress made by the child. Saheb Ke Sewak would prefer the role of a facilitator only, and would encourage the donors to fund the educational requirements of the children of victim families directly and only as a last resort channelise their resources through Saheb Ke Sewak Trust. * Vocational Training: Secondly, we would like to arrange vocational training for those children who are unwilling to pursue their studies beyond High School. * Self- Employment Scheme: Some individuals and organisations have started the practice of paying a nominal amount of Rs. 100/- to Rs. 200/- to widows and other affected women. Saheb Ke Sewak felt that rather than handing out cash, it would be better for the women to be equipped to face life, and be independent. Self employment schemes like doll making, handicrafts and pickle making etc. Saheb Ke Sewak would like to be in a position to arrange single time grants or loans for women to train them in the employment generation scheme. * Medical Assistance: Some of the families that we work with have seen close relatives die in traumatic circumstances, causing them to suffer from psychological problems that continue to this day. These unresolved psychological problems have eventually lead to physical problems. Therefore we provide physical and psychiatric treatment for these families. We are determined that the work of Saheb Ke Sewak will not be restricted to just these four aims. As a result of our strong community relations, we eventually hope to raise enough resources that will enable us to be of greater help to our community. Trustees: The trustees of Saheb Ke Sewak have themselves been victims of violence and are committed to serving other victims. The trustees are: Chairperson:Parminder Pal Kaur General Secretary:Jasmeet Kaur Organising Secretary: Gurmeet Kaur Treasurer: Jaswinder Kaur For further information, please contact our General Secretary at: Jasmeet Kaur # 269, Top Floor, Sector 40-A,Chandigarh 160036. email: skstrust@rediffmail.com

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh well inderjit what did u expect, santas weapons and army are the CRPF (central reserve police force) they are the new Guru ki fauj, they seem to follow him every where he goes, guess Guruji’s so-called Fauj needs the indian government to protect them. I dnt see Baba Nihal Singh ji protected by the CRPF. The only modern weapons they possess are the cross bows his little fan club from the uk sends him lol The only operation manual they have is the hide and seek one, when u get attacked hide like 84, and when so-called peace returns hey presto come out in ur uniforms brandishing all those rusty weapons that make them a tin pot army (toy soldiers). There military regime is wake up have sukha kill a goat or 2 even if u watch their video they miss at point blank range when trying to be soormay killing a poor defenceless goat. I think enuf said on a sad fact that the Khalsa has lost it military wing, but Guru ji di kirpa nal Singhs and Singnia are waking up and learning to be Saint Soldiers in every form. May Guru ji give us kirpa to have the most up to date weapons and be able to use them AKAAALLLLLLLLLLL

vahegurujikakhalsa vahegurjikifateh Dear Sadh Sangat JI are we going to let the uk nihangs make up stories as they go along??? they change things to suit their plans. We know what u lot are up too, using brain washing and janter manter on poor sikh students, using them for your lust and ego. It might not be nidar or narsingha but its ppl who assoicate with these manmucks. Nidar when he first started to teach in wolverhampton Gurudwara he spoke to some singhs who had a bit off knowdgle of Sikhi and their history and are close to the Damdami Taksaal, he spoke highly of the Taksaal then saying it was started by Guru Ji and was on of the five. As time went on and he started to push his views and critise every one including Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa saying he was a coward why did he not come out off Sri Harmandir Sahib to fight, the singhs told him where to go and he was kicked out the Gurudwara. There is enuf info out there what his cronnies are getting up too, but as they say anything goes in their 'Sikhi' they go around testing their 'sikhi' seeing if they have over come the 5 vices, it makes me bow my head in shame what is happening out there. Guru Ji will take out this Melesh out and the True Khalsa will again be seen in their Bana. Not one off their boys went to see Baba ji when he was in london, they have spoken to ppl like Bhai Davinder Singh but he didnot know where this bunch was coming from but even he didnot agree to their views or support them. I cant wait to see their new web sites as am sure if they target Sant Jarnail Singh Ji they wil get a sure SLAP and a few pentras. Finaily the Damdami Taksaal is and will be in Chardi Kala, they dnt need santa and his cronies commenting on their history as they cant get their facts rights in their own jathas. These are my experineces there is more but i dnt want to get personal, time is near Guru ji will sort things out. sukdev Singh Jhamka

wahegurujikakhalsa wahegurujikifateh LAKH LAKH VADAYA SANGANT NOO GURU NANAK DEV JI DE GURUPURBH TE AAP NARAYAN KALA THAAR JAG MEH PARVARIOH NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA TERE BANE SARBAT DA BHALA Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji Dhan Guru Panth Khalsa Ji May Guru Ji unite us to we can serve the world as he wanted us too AKAAAL

About Indira Gandhi Every Sikh heart bleeds, To think of your heinous deeds. It is time you die of shame, And give up all your claim. To be a champion of minority, Hindu Nation is your top priority. Do you search your conscience, When you preach non-violence? You are a terrorist of the worst kind, Blind to the values of mankind. Nastiest tyrant of the present time, Minister prime of war and crime. You clamour for Nobel Peace prize, When your own country is cut to size. Just another breed of your kind, Can spell for mankind. This is the cry of each Sikh soul, You can fool the world no more.” (written by a very Chardi Kala wali Bibi ji shortly after the 1984 attack) Check out website about Indias occupation of the Sikh home land http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA200032003 http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA200312001 http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA200052003 http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA200291999 http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA200241999 http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA200022003 http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA200482000

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh lalleshvari you keep going on about this : Well well well the problem with the taksal is that it was Baba Mohan SIngh who got the gaddi of Sant Gurbachan Singh and not Sant Kartar (with due respect). The official Bhindranvale Taksal is not the Chowk Mehta one but the Bhindran Kalan one. see Gurmukh Darshan by Giani Kirpal SIngh. Now Sant Gurbachan SIngh Bhindranvale's taksal was a ... Nirmala institution! there we go! Am sorry u are so wrong again like so many off ur assumptions. Taksaali singh's have stated on this forum before wiith ample proof that the info u puting out about Bhai Mohan Singh of bhinderi Kala being the real Damdami Taksaal is 100% NOT TRUE. If u ever had any sangat of the Taksaali singhs from Sant Gyani Sunder Singh Ji, Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji's times u would know that THERE is tape recorded statement of Vady Mahapursh Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh at Patna Sahib stating who will lead the Damdami Taksaal and it was not Bhai Mohan Singh, if u need a copy am sure when the Damdami Taksaal website is up it wil clear ur miss guided thoughts if u cnt wait ive got a copy i will forward it u. Akaal Sukdev Singh Jhamka just to remind u what was said a while back on this forum about the Damdami Taksaal, its from Bhai Jasdev Singh Canada Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh I find it really insulting when some people are questioning the authenticy of Damdami Taksal. The four main jathay bandian from Guruji's time were: 1)Taksal 2)Nihangs 3)Nirmalay 4)Udassi. All these jathay bandis still exist to this day, and they have outmost respect for each other. I would request the nihungs to ask their respected Jathedars (Jathedar Santa Singh Budha Dal, Jathedar Tarna Dal,Jathedar Nihal Singh Harian Velan, Jathedar Daya Singh Bidhi Chand, and all the others I have left out) about the history of Taksal as they definitely know all the full facts. Majority of the Jathedars from Taksal have been a big part of the panth. Either as granthi's or teachers at darbar sahib or as great warriors. Nihang singhs have a very strong ties with Taksal, my family is personally related to Jathedar Akali Phula Singh Bhuda Dal and has always been very close to Taksal. Damdami Taksal history will be shortly up as we are very busy working on our websites: www.damdamitaksal.com, www.damdamitaksal.org, www.gurparsad.org, www.gursikhijeevan.com. "actually the real successor to Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale was Sant Mohan Singh Bhindranvale who remained in Bhindran kalan, whereas Sant Kartar Singh set up his group in Chowk Mehta. " This statement is 100% false as we have the tapes in which Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Khalsa says that Sant Kartar Singh will be given all responsibilities of Taksal. Please refrain from making comments that are not 100% correct. You should not make a statement which you are not sure about unless you state that you are unsure. Please be patient and wait for the sites to go up, as they will answer many questions people have regarding Damdami Taksal. Bhul Chuk Maaf Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Dear sangat ji Yea ive heard the same about nidar saying about the 5th sampradama being the Damdami Taksal, they changed their views now, if u read what Mr Cannabis was wrigting earlier on trying to get info to back up his warpped views on the taksal saying there no historical writting saying so. If nidar is the only true Nihang in the west, then ppl need to see his dress sense - he doesnt even where the bana of the Nihangs, he only wears that to impress the poor souls that cum to learn off him. Me mama as had words with him at wolverhampton. He eats from sun valley cafe where he used to work, its that Jhatkar?? look at Big Macs in india they serve Halaal - check out site http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....ED?OpenDocument so all those poor souls who have been going against Guru jis wishes on meat, they even broken their own views on meat guess serves them right. they ever seem to gave any one a answer regarding the Taksal or their views on Sant ji and the movement, i wonder why well at least there are Gursikhs out there getting the nidaks and killers of Guru ji, may Guru ji bless them and give us the sewa too take care sukdev Singh Jhamka

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh sukhasingh veer ji i was too young to be there :cry: my info comes from Singhs who were with Sant Ji who are now shaheed :cry: as well as the info i have gathered regarding the struggle. waheguru

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh there seems to be a disregard for FACTS here santa's Nihang's played a massive role in post june 84 period, the fact is that he stood with the people responsible for destroy the very Takhat they claim to be the gaurdians off. They walked all over the blood off the sangat and shaheeds. No one here cussed or said any thing against Baba Nihal Singh we all now his role and the Quam respects him. Its the fake Nihangs that are getting everyones backs up. They trying to hid the FACT they didnot come up with the goods when the need araised they failed. Bikramjit, sidak veer jis its nice to know theres singhs out there still who have not got memories only until the 1800's. Well next years an important year lets put heads together and remember Guruji's Parkash Shaheeds of the quam

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh I think no one group should be or given control of any place never mind the Sri Darbar Sahib. Any way they cant even control their own jatha or 'nihangs' they seem to be more busy killing each other or waiting for santa to pop it so they can take over. The ppl who say it as a mistake to fight at Sri Darbar Sahib, excuse me but read history matey did not Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji 3 jathadar of Damdami Taksal fight at Akal Takhat or was that too made up like ????. This argument is nidar's main point against Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, u will c all in his up & coming book and website:(, then if Sant ji was wrong say we agree, what have they Santas Nihangs) done to get the killers of thousands off sikhs across india??? all i c is they get free transport on Government owned trains and buses. Yea i think Shaheed General Shuhbeg Singh ji would now about warfare !!! man the practised what he preached and died defending Sri Darbar Sahib like a TRUE NIHANG, more then what the Budhal Dal (santa's group)did yea there was other TRUE Nihangs that fought with Sant Ji, like the Bidi Chand wale and Baba Nihal Singhs group as well as ex Nihangs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moderator note: Sukhdev Singh ji, please refrain yourself using harsh words just to raise issue in this thread. We will let you post if you want to get into healthy discussion otherwise we have participants with healthy discussion principle and they're discussing it already.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh wow sukbir singh ji u hit the nail on the head, awesome post, love ur views man, glad Sikhs like u and GABROO KHALISTAN DAH etc r on here other wise it would be a one way ticket, hey gabroo u keeep getting ur posted deleted never mind hopefully they will be getting educated by some off the posts:) ive not got time yet ot write replys to some of the stuff on here, got some probs to sort out. ill end with Guru Ji's Hukam "SHATAR KE ADHIN HEH RAJ, RAJ BINA NEH DHARAM CHELE, DHARAM BINA SAB DALE MARAN HE". Without the might of weapons there can be no rule, without rule you cannot practice your faith(be that a religion or in the case of the US democracy, or any ideology), without faith nothing can go well. (of course one mans faith is another's ideology but the principal remains) keep it going Gursikhoo sukdev

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahegur Ji Ki Fateh veerji said Well, you didn't offend me but you are running away from real topic and want to insert emotional and revengeful political comments to this thread and want to mixup things. dear bhai sahib ji u seem to have tooken about words and ripped them apart i bow down to ur wisdom, am no historian or educated person. You can think of me as u please. am just a foot solider all i can talk of my experience and what i know, as for all the questions ive not got all the answers or am i in a postion. If u think ive got revenge in me i might have then again Guru ji sent Baba Banda Singh to avenge the Shaheedi of the sahibzada, didnot Guru Hargbind Sahib Ji take chandu in the markets and got the people to hit him with their shoes, did Guru Ji not pick up arms to defend Sikhi?? Did not Guru Gobind Singh Ji tell the Sikhs to pick up weapons to defend Sikhi, did not BHai Sukha Singh & Methab Singh Ji chop the head of messa rangar for the crimes he comitted in Darbar Sahib?? u might not call it revenge call it what u want, I call it JUSTICE i see no difference between Bhai Sukha Singh or Bhai Harjinder Singh Jinda. i might be off the topic sorry if i am, but am sure some one out there will answer ur questions but am sure u know the answer to them. The Singhs and Singhnia r still with us they are amongst us, we dnt know when Guru Ji will give kirpa to any 1 off us. As for going to punjab ive never been sorry As for living in fansty land i might be but am glad my fansty is to be with the Shaheeds bhul kuck marf sukdev

Waheguru Ji Ka Kalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Dear Cyber Sangat Ji The demand for Khalistan is not a new demand or is it an anti Sikhi demand. We are quick to put things into small boxes to fit our thought process. If anyone studied the jeevan of the Singhs and Singhnia there only aim was to up hold justice and freedom. They knew themselves they would not be able to live in a free society; they became Shaheed for US. When it comes to looking and judging people was say lets take the good and not the bad, yet soon as the topic of Khalsa Raaj comes up we starting bringing in all the bad points like the egoistic so-called presidents, the people who sold the Singhs?singhnia down the drain. Cannot we look at the positives like the 1,000s of Gursikhs who laid down there lives defending Sikhi and there love for US and Guruji, Singhs and Singhnia who did there nitmen and amritvelas and then done Chandi Di Vaar and went into battle against all odds. Singhs and Singhnia who suffered untold torture yet they did not weep or break down, Examples Bhai Kulwant Singh Nagoka every bone in his body broken, hot rods but into his stomach Bhai Anoak Singh Babbar his eyes where taken out, Bhai Gurdev Singh Usmanwala hot iron pressed on his chest, boiled in hot water, because he wouldn’t go back on his Ardas he did at Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib. Bibi Resham Kaur and 6 month old baby. Tortured to death because she would not tell on the where abouts off her Singh. Baby was put on a block off ice and became shaheed. Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru I could go on and on about the suffering and the GREATNESS ive seen in the past 15 odd years, ive taken time out to find out about these Sikhs my BROTHERS and SISTERS. I guess most off us r young and did not witness what happened and all u see before u are the left overs of the movement, these people that shout and scream, that’s all they do, but lets look deeper u will find the JEWELS the real Sikhs of the movement, it was a civil rights movement. Just because some manmucks call themselves leaders of Khalistan, that doesnot mean the demand or the movemet for khalistan would be run by these manmucks. Lets not rubbish the whole 25 years because we see a few idiots. Its like saying am not going to take amrit because we see others not practising Sikhi, lets look at those who do what Guru ji says. I will give u the declaration of Khalistan as passed by the Sarbat Khalsa of 26th January 1986, held at Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib. I think the Khalsa Panth has decided to form a independent state, not for any materialistic gains but just to get some peace, where we can live as Sikhs, as we cannot in India, yes we got in easy in the UK and the rest of the world. Just put yourself in the shoes off Shaheed Bhai Harjinder Singh Jinda & Shaheed Bhai Sukdev Singh Ji Sukha seeing everything before your eyes, Sri Akaal Takhat destroyed, Sangat Shaheed, Delhi massacres, the abuses in the villages, would ur conscious let u walk away and turn a blind eye?????? Would u not be in the same position off those KHALISTANIS???? Its easy with hindsight and see all the bad points, but HEY there was a lot off LOVE for Sikhi Let me end with this example A old Singh, his son was with the Singhs the youth was living under ground, the cops would come to the old Singhs house pick him up torture him, after a few days of beatings he would be let out, then month or so later they would come again the same thing would happen this happened over a few years he would just have enough time to recover from one torture the other would start, I looked puzzled at him I said “bhai sahib, why dnt u run away instead of getting tortured every few months, he look at me and pointed to his wife and daughters and SAID IF I WAS NOT HERE THEY WOULD PICK THEM UP. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM????? Just one thought came to me Dhan Guru Ki Sikhi and Dhan Guru Ka Sikh, Then he told me about one Gursikh he used to be in a cell next to his, he never saw him, the police would come torture him for hours but I would never hear a peep from him when they went, all I would hear is Gurbani, we would do parth together, but one day I heard a mighty roar and then 2 gun shots, I later found out that the Gursikh could take all the beatings and torture but when the police cut his Kesh he defended himself and was shot dead. This is REAL LOVE for Sikhi it comes from Guruji himself. So when next time we look at the socalled Khalistanis remember the unknow GURSIKHS who gave their all but did not give up there Sikhi. May be one day I too will have that LOVE inside me and do some sewa for Guruji Hope I have not offended any one, I do get upset when my bros and sistas make statements and don’t understand what these souls did for us, if it was not for them I wouldn’t have come into Sikhi, I owe them my life as without Sikhi I would have been a drugie Raaj Karega Khalsa Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib JI AKAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL Quams footsolider sukdev

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh I got to agree with some off the points the AKJ Singh’s and other Singh’s r saying, the UK nihangs their leader Niddar have caused a lot of mis trust between the youth in the uk, everyone was really getting on with sewa and camps but a few ppl wanted an image being cocky !!!!! this is not Sikhi being humble and putting in time and effort to bring ppl into sikhi was the main goal of all the Singh’s no matter what jatha they belonged to. There are stories out there where ppl have gone away from sikhi and started doing drugs etc. which is sad. I feel they are using the forum in a clever way but as always they get found out, but the damage has been done. We started of with niddar, thinking yea we can learn self defence and learn about sikhi, but all we got was few moves and loads of dodgy stuff being told to us he spend hours talking he wouldnot let ppl answer back, but lucky we had a few older Gursikhs with us who challenged him about his accounts of history, he started to bad mouth Sant Ji calling him a coward etc, he made that mistake and singhs left him. When he brings out his ‘master piece’ the book and his website u will see him in his true lite if u have not yet. The book will turn present history upside and will be a mouth piece of the Indian government version off events for the past 25 years, he has already acted by calling Bhai Sahib Fauja Singh ji a fanatics etc, am sure he will do the same to the real Saint Soldiers who fought with the might of the Indian army, but Sangat ji he will truly feel the heat from the sangat once he has taken that step, we await. Let him bring out nihang.com we have enough facts and footage to show them that the true Nihangs are the ones in the Battle field right now. So please moderators dnt give them the chance to ripe out the heart of the Sikhs by playing the drama that they are SEEKING TRUTH. I’ve got respects for the True Nihangs who stood by the Quam in these heavy days, ive n t got time for the fake ones who dress up and think they are it but have nothing inside them. Am not into debating just my 2 pence worth Dnt get dishearten Sangat ji the quam with come through this period as we always have Stay in Chardi Kala AKAALLL Sukdev Singh Jhamka They now who he is

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Am no expert on the Damdami Taksaal but man i love those Singhs, look at their jeevan, look at their Jathadars Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed, Baba Gurbaskh Singh Ji Shaheed that’s where the name Shaheeda de misl comes from and Sant Jarnail Singh the true loins of punjab the Taksaal has protected and gave their lives to protect Sri Harmandir Sahib and will do so again. As for text book evidence i think the singhs were to busy fighting and protecting the weak and oppressed, as the Nihangs say oral traditions is so important so listen to Sant jis tapes u might learn a few things about sikhi. i remember one time nidar saying there where 5 Sampradaya, now it’s become 4 as they now the Taksaal ain’t going to twist history or rehit. Only certain groups are trying to destroy the great heritage of the Taksaal but as Sant Ji says "the Taksaal was set up by Guru ji its got the kirpa of Guru ji, no one will be able to destoy it" ive not got the exact wording but its something like that. Sos in advance . i feel it comes down to jealousy because of the part the Damdami Taksaal played in the panth as a fight force as well as a gurmat university. As for all the mis info about Sant Gyani Kartar Singh etc its all lies, theres tapes out there which clearly talk of Sant Gyani Kartar Singh being elected Jathadar so please do ur research before u take digs, we now what ur game is but it aint working matey. Baba Daya Singh Sursinghwale of the Baba Bakala jatha ask them about Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale they help Sant Ji set up, talk to Sant Nihal Singh of the Tarna Dal he will tell u or is it that u have no links with these Nihangs?? Narsingha and co stop confusing ppl out there, ppl coming into Sikhi dnt need all this heaped on them, Sikhi is simple and easy. Bhul chuck marf Sukdev

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh hope everyone is in Chardi Kala, may Guru Ji bless us so we too can walk the path of Sikhi, like all those countless Shaheeds. Just a point to note: Narsingha said: As you can see, www.sarbloh.info and www.shastarvidiya.org (not to mention www.sanjamkiriya.org and www.nihang.com) have been sanctioned by: 1) 96 Crori Jathedar Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh Ji (Supreme Commander of the Budha Dal) 2) Baba Uday Singh Nihang (General Secretary of the Budha Dal) 3) Nihang Niddar Singh (Jathedar of Budha Dal UK). Just to point out the out of the 3 ppl he mentioned santa was excommunicated from the panth by the Sarbat Khalsa 26th January 1986 by the way the Gurmata was passed under the leadership of the Damdami Taksal and the freedom fighters. Even though he went back to the SGPC (Dushts) for FORGIVENESS that’s a FACT and is documented as u lot love ur history so much As for so-called Jathadar Niddar, I thought u love ur “pratan maryadha†and any one who calls himself a Jathadar needs a farla, I don’t remember last time chatting to niddar seeing any extra material in his Dastar, the only extra material he had extra was around his fat belly and his ego lol. If the UK nihangs r so Chardi Kala and follow the rahiet maryadha laid down by Guru Ji, in their eyes why does niddar and his men eat meat from Sainsbury’s and KFC???? Is that chatka???? a small point but it shows their hypocrisy and they moan about other Sikhs picking and choosing and being infiltrated by the British, yet niddar has not migrated back to his beloved Hindustan?? As for his chele (bum chums ie, rashid, titty, spanky etc.) their favorite is chips and beans another British invention. Just one other point as the Budha Dal is an army with its command structure where does Mr General Secretary fit into the scheme of things??? Is this not another adoption of the British way??? By the way Baba Uday Singh doesn’t wear the Dhumala anymore he wears the adopted BRITISH version the somas (patiala) one ie the one that looks like the titanic (boat) And Statements like from N30 Singh( aint trying to dish u veerji) I believe in Khalsa raj because thats guroo's bachan compare to khalistan concept which was created by bunch of politicans/fanatics. Veerji I don’t know u personally I’ve seen ur writings on here, I might not agree to ur views 100% but I respect and love u as my brother as u have the same thirst as me for Sikhi. Sikhi is about understanding, compromising and showing love the whole of Humankind. Above all standing up for TURTH, even if u have to give ur head. The above statement really hurt brother. The concept of Khalistan in the eyes of Sant Ji and the freedom fighters was truly what Guruji wanted KHALSA RAJ, yea I agree politicians hijacked the movement for their own political agenda, but lets not let go of the fact it was Sant Ji and all those Gursikhs who defend Sri Harmandir Sahib who where the first Shaheeds of Khalistan, Singh’s like General Manvir Singh ( a true nihang), Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal (ex Akal Takhat Jathadar), Baba Gurdev Singh Usmanwalla who was boiled to death but don’t go back on the Ardas he done in front of Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, it was Singhs like Bhai Jinda & Bhai Sukha, General Avtar Singh Brahma General Labh Singh Panjwar and countless Gursikhs who died with a vision so we the Sikh youth can live in freedom. Khalistan was not a piece of land to them, It was ideology a struggle for justice as Sikhs have never fought for land and never will. We struggle for justice and truth. By the way when their web site nihang.com comes on u will see what these ppl are really about, they going to call Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa a coward for fighting inside Sri Harmandir Sahib, it will be all the propaganda we heard in the 1990’s from the Indian govt, don’t worry boys u r cutting your own throats (u will know how the goat feels) , I guess what you sow that’s what u will reap Sorry if I offended anyone who put the panth first and has supported the Gursikhs who laid down their lives in defense off the onslaught by the Indian government but I make to apologies to the supporters of the killers of these Gursikhs and ppl who attack these Gursikhs and call them terrorists and killers. Gurfateh Sukdev Singh Jhamka