Genie Singh

Bhindranwale was arrested for the murder of the Nirankari baba [let me correct myself it was the murder of the head of a newspaper who had insulted bhindranwale in his newspaper], his followers mostly admit he did put a bounty on his head. However there was a lack of evidence, and a range of protests compelled the government to release him. Bhindranwale did say an attack was going to happen a year before- either intel, prophecy or he provoked the whole thing to begin with. The very definition of terrorism is to spread an ideology with the use of violence; bhindranwale had made threats like putting a sign outside of the golden temple saying anyone found to be smoking here will be beheaded and their head will be mounted outside. Or people mentioning bhindranwale said he will kill any amritdhari he finds drinking alcohol- (some sikhs tend to mention this). Some say he started pillling bags of sand after General Subheg Singh defected from the Indian army to Bhindranwale having realised the government was going to raid the complex of the golden temple. It seems Bhindranwale was moving a revivalist movement to re-arm sikhs and oppose the government (bhindranwale mentioned once in a speech that he was the sikh of a true court, the court of god and he was not going to observe a false government of india court- it seems to be an implementation of when sikhs stood against mughal tyranny) as early Sikhs had done to the mughal government. Bhindranwale felt Sikhs were discriminated against by the government and more so by the police. Bhindranwale in his speeches narrates mistreatment of Sikhs by the police the list goes from derobing Sikh daughters and parading them naked through villages, raping sikh women by the police, killing people, police stealing ( a range of things the punjab police is still accused of by human right violations). Bhindranwale felt the central government had issued the mistreatment of Sikhs. Bhindranwale also demanded the passing of the anandpur resolution to amend the constitution of India which people say Master Tara Singh the Sikh representative never signed. With the demands of the Sikhs. Bhindranwale had said that altering the constitution wasn't a big matter for indira gandhi since she had in her term already done so (even though she was accused of electoral vote fraud). The anandpur resolution demanded Sikhs be established as a separate religion and not a sect of Hinduism under the marriage act which classified sikhs as hindus on marriage certificates. It also demanded establishing Amritsar as a holy state such as Mathaura(birth place of krishna)- which would mean the ban of consumption and sale of alcohol, meat and drugs. And lastly the right to broadcast the golden temple sermons and preaching through radio. Broadcasting occurs today, as for the marriage act people claim this was in place during the time of the british but was removed by nehru, the complications some claim is difficulty in immigration. There have been some changes to the marriage act which require a couple going to court to have it changed through a long administrative procedure which make it easier to declare oneself just as a hindu. The third of making amritsar a religious state for some was very meaningful some felt Sikhi was under ideological attack by dilluting the population with kurehita. For india a ban of alcohol to punjab would hamper the economy since a large portion of punjabi drink, it would have lead to a series of crimes through bootlegging alcohol as does happen in gujrat and did happen in america. General Brar says that when operation blue star took place they did stop all food supplies going in, they cut power, water and waited for 24 hours, they gave notice over loud speakers to vacate the complex. Some survivors say this is lies and they never heard it, general brar says they did announce it. The army was sent in due to the vast growth of bhindranwales men and supporters. After the operation they found weapons made in china and pakistan, they found men they claim were spies and men from pakistan through finding circumcisions- medical exams, they found khalistani dollars had been printed. After the flush out of those insurgents a whole series of insugencies took place including assaignation of government officials. Who these men said were involved in the genocide of Sikhs. General Brar felt bhindranwale had put everyone in danger. Indira Gandhi is said to have felt that had she given into the anandpur resolution the separatist militants would have asked for more and she had to put her foot down and be strong, give an inch they take a mile as she narrated, in one interview by general Sinha. General Sinha once said that the indian army should have done prayers outside of the complex and asked bhindranwale and his men to join them in the prayers and surrender their weapons to guru granth sahib for peace. General Brar on radio in response to this method said time was of the essence there is no telling how long things would have taken and it would have been possible they would have shot the army men. General Brar says that the operation had to be done swiftly otherwise the inhabitants of punjab would have seen it as a threat and attacked the army. Brar also says before the operation he gave the freedom of his men to leave the operation with any doubts, a sikh stepped forward and brar told him with grace he could leave. But the sikh said he wants to go in first since bhindranwale has corrupted the sanctity of the golden temple. General Brar said bhindranwale corrupted the sanctity of the akal takht by living inside of it going toilet there, taking his bath there, eating there. Bhindranwale was said to have taken camp there in 82 and it is felt in some documentaries he had provoked indira gandhi. Bhindranwales role as a priest, head of the taksal almost a bishop in the vatican is usually not considered. The question I would like to ask is if bhindranwale was such a great threat, why did they release him? Why not keep him detained and ignore the protests- so many peoples lives would have not been lost. They could have charged him with anything as they do to a whole range of people. We can see besides all the protests now india has rajoana locked up perhaps under the same perception of threat. Bhindranwale and his men being armed with automatic machine guns, ak47s, bazakos, rocket launches, grenades, pistols- was perhaps an interpretation of Sikh teachings to rule independently when banda singh bahadur was given 5 arrows by guru gobind singh. The perception by other Sikhs was that the indian rule present was one that was constituted of sikhs especially when the president of india was a sikh - giani zail singh, who was assaignated by insurgent sikhs. This perception of Sikhs being a part of the government of India became thinner when the government of india conspired pograms in Delhi with systematic killings, loot, arson and rape of Sikhs in Delhi- even though there was a thin wall of cultural difference in the sikhs of delhi having mostly not heard of bhindranwale in a saintly way but through the radio as a separatist cult leader. The healing process to trial and bring to justice those who conspired in the pograms hasn't taken place and in many ways those who were involved have progressed along in the system of india. And much faith in India has been lost. For many Sikhs this sense of desperation lead to further diaspora.

Don't know about bhindranwale, but the name bhindranwale has sure brought alot of damage before bhindranwales fame Sikh history doesn't record sikhs putting bounties or fatwas on other peoples head. (massar ranghar is a different story he had occupied harmander, abdali was killing people, people were defending themselves, the who ethos of gurus message was not to raise the sword first but to answer it, as bhindranwale had conveniently quoted) When we lose the moral ground on killing people then what good is the rest of dharma when paramata is within humans we seek to do bali of. The only issue of the anandpur resolution I can see is declaring amritsar a holy city and what that means, with the banning of alcohol, drugs and meat. Most drugs are already banned, alcohol bans aren't that bad but usually just lead to bootlegging of alochol as seen with alcohol bans, which bring a whole series of ban. But then banning meat is just something where bhindranwale has put his opinon ontop of the whole panth and abrogated the whole concept of jhatka meat. Had that gone through the practice of nihang jhatka would have become illegal and it's likely purathan nihang jatha-bandi would have ended up in jail and later clashed with the taksali empowered government. Which would have just lead to a mass exodus of punjabis out of punjab speeding up the whole process of bahyias coming into punjab. But yet to speak like that can get you a fatwa on your head since bhindranwale didn't like to listen to anyone else's opinion. I will try bring you some sources on the whole english language, english dress things. And I don't real have any other agenda then just talking about these matters. If you haven't noticed I have been arguing against Sher and his counterpart Ekomkar. I view the non belief of sants a part of puratan sikhisha in the vidya of gurmat sikhi.

I only asked a question it sounds like you are a fundamentalist to find offence at someone mere asking a question. Are you or will you be one of those parents who will slap their children when they ask a question? If so sikhi won't remain in your next generation.

How about Maharati Shiva Ji?

Quality control for sant ki nindya? Sounds harsh, in that context the congregation of saints is the satsangat, nindya is slander, to say defaming things which aren't true: lies which are damaging. There are certain arguments that can be made to classify bhindranwale an insurgent if you prefer. Ordering the deaths of the nirankari baba might not be enough but the damaging reputation on him was attained. This saint worship is borrowed from hinduism.

Doesn't seem bad at all with the sikh articles they have there are some pretty nasty ones on muhammaden websites that seems respectable and honest in many parts. In fact they have won my respect.

SGPC rehat is easily available and isn't mixed into the realm of Sant-Samaj or the congregation of the saints. This whole saint culture is quite recent from the late 1800s and a whole new take on gurbani, we can thank Nand Singh for it all being the first modern contemporary saint who pierced the Sikh faith. Turning a protestant like tradition back into it's catholic origin of candles and polytheistic intermediation- abit like taking Sikhi back into the period of hindu sadhus where you serve the yogi for blessing (bipran ki reet). We go from 1 god all the way to nand singh being another god or a prophet with the rest added in. Even catholics are waking up to the idea of saint hood being a redudnat notion over complicating dogma to a repulsive point, making life all the harder to live. If you don't remember the right saint in catholicism you won't get your blessing. To make mention of how Bhindranwale's status doesn't entirely fit into puratan (ancient) Sikh can get you a whole series of fatwas (we have but the revivalism of wahabism through the creation of pakistan and zia-ul-haq to thank for all of that fanaticism). The ideological hamper came about due to interference of Sikhs in the matter of the creation of Bangladesh. To me Bhindranwale was a human being, living breathing, who did some good, did some bad, made some nice ideas, but made a whole series of mistakes such as opposing the use of English among Sikhs, opposing the wearing of English clothes (not a major problem as compared to being against English), wasn't flexible enough to make some room to accommodate Hindi when the Gurus accommodated even more Languages (almost taking a page out of Muhammden history to oppose other languages and to impose Arabic).

No way Hindu- Sikh bhai bhai hai, many hindu daughters and hindu sisters have married many Sikh brothers.

Q. Yet being a Sikh is very important to you. A. Very important. A sense of belonging, and that's why I gave up the Padma Bhushan after Operation Bluestar. I was the only Indian to criticise Bhindranwale. I called him a homicidal maniac when I was in The Hindustan Times. And he threatened to finish us all. And then I had all this security for 15 years. They've all gone now. Nobody wants to kill me anymore.- Khuswant Singh Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/i-was-the-only-indian-to-criticise-bhindranwale-khushwant-singh/1/255997.html

Writers such as Katy Sian [unsettling Sikh and Muslim Conflict by Katy P. Sian] exploring the post colonial condition of Sikhs feels that Sikhs had an elevated status in India during british raj then after the Independence of India that status did not remain. Perhaps in that framework of thinking going from an elevated status to an average one can be perceived as marginalisation or discrimination. Although other writers express after the Independence India is doing much better and Indian's are all together much more elevated then they were. Perhaps people have romanticised the past to be something it wasn't and desire a past which didn't really exist. Abit like how Muhammdens seek to re-create the Ottoman empire and view it to be superior if not equal to any modern western country in all of it's achievement's aswell as having a higher sense of morality when it comes to the domains of censorship such as adult material or hateful material such as satire. [i'm sorry I can't find the page reference for further reading yet for Dr Katy Sian's work]

Maybe he witnessed the whole 1947 riots and over the years came to the conclusion that no god would have allowed something as horrific as that to happen hence he came down to the firm conviction that there is no god for him.

In his book Khushwant is building up the argument for why he doesn't believe in god. He starts off with his life having taken amrit, done nitnem, been around a full family where akhand paaths were the norm. He states he feared his declaration until 1947. In the section of the extract it is from a chapter addressing muhammden prejudices he felt he had. That extract comes from the prejudice he has detailed of the feeling that muhammdens are fanatics he starts off with some examples of Muhammden fanaticism and equates Bhindranwale to the likes of Khoemini himself when he had placed the fatwa (bounty) on Salman Rushdie. I think Khushwant tries to be impartial after-all his daughter is married into muhammden's. Besides his award from Akal Takht by the jathedar and praises by Sikhs. He is of firm conviction the unlikeness of an existence of a diety. His book does make quite a wide range of quotations from the koran and his perception of the positive merits of muhammdenism which include the praise of god and the staunch frigidness of muhammdenism. He has argued that muhammdenism can't be accused for forceful conversion as it was rigidly condemned in their religion where as something like that in Sikhi isn't as rigidly mentioned which gives room for fanaticism to arise.

As far as I am aware the Nirankari were an offshoot of the Sikh religion who had their own dehdhari guru (not that different to what sant/saints claim divinity in themselves). The nirankaris would touch each others feet and claim "dhan nirnakar"- praise the formless one (god), taking from the teachings of Guru Nanak they claimed God is within all. The nirankaris had established there own creed utilising the teachings of the orthodox faith of Sikhi by initiating people. It appears that they would provide re-prints of shabads and have their followers read each piece. This practice was seen as insulting as is to take apart limb by limb the Guru. Bhindranwale put a bounty of Gurbachan Singh's head after propagating the idea that the nirankari acclaimed prophet, gurbachan had stepped ontop with his feet on the Guru Granth Sahib. I am not aware of any witnesses of the event or anyone speaking about it besides those iterating Bhindranwale's ideas. Some say gurbachan had 7 sitara, 7 stars as to mimmic the 5 beloved ones (if we look across at the way some Sikh cults operate they tend to manipulate the 5 beloved ones in different ways sometimes- the head is the cult leader claiming divinity i.e. the Sant/Baba). It appears people claim gurbachan claimed Guru Granth Sahib to be nothing but a bunch of papers or a book. It's possible maybe he was misreferenced, but in Nirankari darbars as it appears on youtube they seem to prostrate (muthadeek) to Guru Granth Sahib. As for shooting these 13 men, it appears they were mostly from AKJ and some from Taksal who opposed Gurbachan's message which under the constitution of India was protected by freedom of religion. In entering the protest of a religion gathering these 13 were shot by what seems to be body guards. It's possible that danger was perceived by the body guards in some shape or manner so as to protect their baba they shot dead these men. What's sad is how the matter was dismissed by the police. Which lead to the assignation of gurbachan as Bhindranwale had said he would give that person's weight in gold. I haven't come across such a teaching taught in Sikhi to put bounties on people's heads. If we want to compare this to massar ranghar. Massar Ranghar had occupied harmandar and not allowed Sikh pilgrims to enter aswell as trespassing with setting up his camp. Could you please tell us more about the kilings that the Nirankaris aparently did? It appears Nirankari's seem to preach vegetarianism and preach against killing animals, I wonder what blood lust they must have had?

...fictionalized the tragic episode in his The Satanic Verses (1988). We in India have similar groups of fanatics committed to violence. It is not a mere coincidence that leaders of these cults are men or women with diseased minds but mesmeric powers of speech. In the early 1980s, in Punjab, we had Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale who ordered cold-blooded executions of his detractors. He and his militant followers were holed up in the Golden Temple at Amritsar. In early June 1984, the Indian Army entered this temple to evict the militants, and in the ensuing battle, brought about the destruction of the sacred Akal Takht. (Chapter 1.) Bhindranwale himself was killed. In the 1980s, thousands of lives were lost in Punjab, Haryana and Delhi. SINGH, KHUSHWANT; Chopra, Ashok (2011-10-01). Agnostic Khushwant: There Is No God (Kindle Locations 1134-1140). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

I suspect Sher and Ekomkar are the same person

I'm not saying people like nand singh are bad, but they aren't in line with what puratan sikhi was, things like sitting on bulleh shahs grave, reading bulleh shah kalams in pavan pavitar hazoori of guru and having others read it. Then declining conversion to those who wish to come into the sikh fold from muhammdenism and hinduism and telling them to be strong in their own faith which has principles which contradict our own such as sunnah of cutting hair, or munan of hindu dharam. Then by sitting yourself as the next guru have your painting hung as large or larger then paintings of the 10 gurus, having people do mutha deek to your photo such as nand singhs. Or having personal items worshipped next to guru granth sahib in deras. These charalatons have their own memorial sites worshipped when his grand majestic Akali Baba Guru Gobind Singh maharaj didn't allow sikhs to worship his own site of passing. Then propagating ideas which contradict sikhi such as them claiming divinity and the ability to intermediate for us infront of dharamraj. Or then pretending to uplift our sins and bless us with wealth. Then asking for huge donations which go into making their deras look nicer, their living accomadations nicer with air conditioning, satelite television, latest cars, latest mobile phones with the latest ring tones, drivers all serving the so called god men claiming to be god, who steal peoples lands. We have criminals now dressed in the robes of these holy men who rape women, take the honour of our sisters then step on our brothers. They have broken the devoution of some of our sikh brothers and left people to see sikhi nothing more then a false religion due to these false men who claim guru granth sahib as their means to line their own pockets. These charalaton criminals have done nothing but damaged our panth. When it comes to people like ram rahim, nirankari babas who line their pockets and the long line of successors who claim to be on nand singh's seat to claim huge donations so you can buy yourself an afterlife. After-all god hates the poor in accordance to the false teachings these charalatons preach. People like nand singh took the pure teachings of his majestic holiness Akali Guru Nanak Dev ji and manipulated them to equate all traditions as one and neglect guru nanaks teachings of how all atmas can attain karam khand but without the gift of naam can not attain sach khand. "It (Hinduism) is like the boa constrictor [type of snake which strangles and ingests it's prey] of the Indian forests. When a petty enemy appears to worry it, it winds round its opponent, crushes it in its folds, and finally causes it to disappear in its capacious interior....Hinduism has embraced Sikhism in its folds; the still comparatively young religion is making a vigorous struggle for life, but its ultimate destruction is, it is apprehended, inevitable without State support." (Max Arthur Macauliffe, 1903)

Jonny I'm anti Sant I don't believe in Saints nor do I believe is the sant concept to be a part of puratan sikhi and something which came about during british raj as a result of cults being created as well as a whole series of sharlatons. When it comes to bhindranwale he signed his name as giani and in the 3rd person called himself giani or just by his own name. I also think people give too much weight of respect to bhindranwale, some put him equal to the gurus himself and forget his role as just a sikh. I think all of nanaksar have done alot of harm to Sikhi aswell by dilluting it to a mish-mash tradition which accepts the validity of other traditions to be equal to it's own yet proposes ideas which are contradictory like not eating meat, the lack of eating meat has come at the cost of Sikhs being smaller in size then they used to be and in equalling other traditions, the daughters and sisters of sikhs are marrying out and raising children who aren't sikh. The sons and brothers of sikhs have equated sikhi to atheism through nanaksari ideology and have become drug bound.

So you believe Hindus oppress Sikhs then? Despite your view that Sikhs deserve it or not you believe just like how the mughals oppressed hindus and sikhs by your comparison you feel Sikhs are now getting the same treatment. If under that treatment it came down to overthrowing the mughals, don't you think there will be sections of people who want to overthrow the indian government? Maybe you might argue they might not be capable to but the same was argued by the mughals. Some muslims argue no hindu or sikh overthrowed the mughals they became weak and allowed the british to step up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZWJJzpJ5-Y As he said if Shiv couldn't recognise his own son how will Shiv recognise me when I need his help. Shiv was also helpless in putting Ganesh's real head back so his power is limited. He said if people can prove that ganesh is baghwan he will then eat prasad.

Most of us don't take cold baths Nor does the above make mention of 5 banis which we claim is gurus hukam. What's up with the blue clothes, is colourism really essential? just because blue off puts mosquitoes and lessens stings doesn't mean it should forever be worn.

Kara was to stop muhammdens from cutting hands off and when down to last few weapons when muhammdens came to assault helpless sikhs, the sikhs would defend themselves from the aggressor muhammadens