HSD1

On BBC 1 right now is a programme that should show people what really goes on in most non-middle class parts of britain. Will put the link up later if I find it on iPlayer or Youtube. How racist do you think britain is?

Post 39 on that link is hilarious: '...many women (male and female)...' !?

Because uneducated masses in South America, Africa and South Asia are easy pickings. Mind you, most of them say that they fill a gap in those people's lives as we sikhs and hindus spend more money on our gurudwaras/mandirs than we do on infrastructure back home. If you really wanted to stop the baptists, help east punjab out of the gutter (both economically and mentally).

Brother, I understand what you say but I am a brutally honest person and will say what I think even though I know many wont like it. Its not meant to offend, but I believe honesty is the best policy. Sikhs in india are a mixed bunch. Many kids arent just 'MTV hindustanis' but are awakening. In delhi many of the moneh are gaining inner strength when they learn about 84 and what Sant Ji and the shaheeds did. Of course the other problems still exist, but I think we as a people are better in bad times than peaceful times. I also dont like the status quo. It's like a state of equilibrium - nothing looks like its changing but there is plenty of stuff going on on both sides to maintain the balance. Some sikhs say if we upset the balance, people will die, bad times will happen etc, but these things already happen it's just that it's easier to ignore in the good times. These events remind me of our history, when radical violent islam swept into punjab and north india. Yes sikhs died, but i remember reading that a sikh said after Ghallughara, 'the weak have died and the strong will live on'. This was a conflict in which 60000 of the 100000 sikhs in punjab were killed. But what resulted? A stronger panth. A united panth. A nation capable of creating a Khalsa Raj and taking Peshawar and Delhi. Sikh art, culture etc flourished. That is how life and history work. If the terrorist get the upper hand it will be the end of pakistan and hindustan. A window of opportunity will exist. Now of course we could try and maintain the status quo. But if thats what we want, we give up any right to complain or retaliate if another 84 happens or muslims desecrate gurudwaras in pakistan. What is the point of living like a dirty dog on a street full of fine restaurants when you can be a lion acting as a shining light in the darkest jungle? Of course, if you are right, and we do get our asses kicked, well then we deserve it. I know this sounds bad, but we cannot be forced to hold up a rotten system just because it keeps people alive.

They can have them. Anyone who falls for Glenn Hoddle's logic is a moron who deserves to spend an afterlife on a wet cloud or getting barbecued. Has anyone noticed the massive terrorist attacks in pakistan recently? I dont know why but something inside me feels contented to see this in pakistan. I hope that if muslim punjab goes radicalised it will shock sikhs back into how we were before the brits turned up.

Wait a minute, are they after sharia law for just themselves or all the people in britain? What about cases involving muslims and non-muslims? Sounds like a bunch of muslims with nothing better to do than whine.

Now I dont want anyone to start any arguments or give people the chance to settle vendettas so please dont start if you get the urge. My question is this: is fanatic a word that describes certain sikhs today? The word fanaticism actually was first used by the europeans to describe the akhalis of old, some of whom were very xenophobic. So are modern day fanatics bad or just presenting something in our genes that was always there? Also, how do we differentiate between fanatics who aim themselves at those outside the panth and those who feel they should purge our community of certain beliefs? One other thing: I am relatively young, and I see that the sikhs younger than me who do martial arts, are involved in cadets etc, are very similar in outlook to the akhalis and also seem to move through their teenage years with more ease than those sikhs who try to fit in with other 'groups' in sikhi or become coconuts. Is their a positive side to being a fanatic? Lastly, when the excrement metaphorically hits the fan, these 'fanatics' we look down on are usually the ones we hide behind. They fight and give their lives just so those who ridiculed them can live in peace. Is that unfair, or just the natural order of things? Please discuss and say what you honestly think, without arguing, as I think this topic is an important one for us to discuss.

Do you guys make dvds or videos on the net for those of us who were unable to attend previous or upcoming events?

Some of those accounts were quite disgusting. What goes on in these policemen's minds? Some of them sound like they would be at home working in a concentration camp. Don't expect change any time soon.

Oh come on, a joke is a joke. I dont see this as payback but just some light hearted fun. If any hindustanis are offended by it, well i'm sorry but it's about time someone cracked a joke around here. As for navjot, I get annoyed at how upset people get when goreh/hindus/muslims are supposedly offended, but when it comes to standing up for our own lot or those who dont have a voice we are quiet. All i want is people to respect every other race rather than picking and choosing who we sikhs should support. By the way, when I use hindustani I am referring to a citizen of the republic of india created in 1947. However that does not include many sikhs who live there and openly say they are not hindustani. For me, Sardar will always represent the resilient, tolerant, sharp yet reserved Singh who has and always will outwit his foes. Recently I have tried finding some sikhs who were good with drawings to produce an internet action comic called 'Sardar', about the ordinary unnamed Khalsa Faujis who gave their lives for us, to help the disaffected youth to understand the true meaning of the word and how it was once used. As for the video of the man trying to rebuild the shrine, i heard the iraqi govt were stumping up most of the cash and manpower to do it. Hopefully the shrine will be built like it was before rather than changed to reflect the iraqi govt/hindustani mystic man's role of helping restore it. We can only wait and see. Mind you if we had Khalistan, we could have done more to protect it in the first place.

Many times i have told people that Mi5 and other parts of the british govt arent happy about the support we give khalistan as it affects relations with india. I even told the young ones to be careful what they say or do as it could be used against them. Most of them, being cocky and arrogant, say that britain has nothing against sikhs or our liberty. The link below clearly shows that both india and britain's intelligence agencies collude on infiltrating, monitoring and controlling certain parts of our community. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/

I could say the same of you. If you feel so easily nauseated by a bunch of sikhs on the internet I suggest you go out and get a life, it might do you some good. It seems you think that any form of response to you is idiotic, rather than seeing how easily your points are quashed. I will reply to your posts in any manner I see fit, especially in light of your own mouthing off. Have you looked up the word hypocrite in the dictionary yet? Yes, you are mentally ill. Like I said in my previous posts, change does not take place overnight. Gradual changes are more effective. You have not followed any logic in your comments. You dash from one thing to another. Your desperation is even more obvious due to your hypocritical mindset. Stop crying. Seriously, you are one of the worst projectionists i have come across. See a psychiatrist. For the record, i am no fan of Singh Sabha as can be seen by my posts on other threads and forums. But you're to stupid to accept any form of contradictory commentary. Hence the comments on your agenda. Yes, they are also heavily moderated in order to give this effect. Anyway, plenty of muslims and hindus, like yourself, read sikh forums, so what's your problem? Are they? Or are they correcting the junk on the other forums? Like i said, an idiot is an idiot. If he applies himself to Gurbani, something will probably go wrong, as you may know from your own life story. Well give examples of what you're on about then rather than screaming like a hindu widow on fire. Again with the psychology/ideology crap. Maybe you should stop quoting your AS textbooks. Anyway it is clear you have a major problem, which can only be sorted out with serious medical help. So who were the sikhs of the past? Hindus? Sikhi is clearly a religion of the real world, not a load of hindu mumbo jumbo cow droppings. Again with the coward. I told you before, say it to my face otherwise you are the coward, giving it large and stupid on the internet like the sad pathetic freak you are. Again, i do not cling to singh sabha. Hell my comments have so annoyed petty hindus like you who want to blame everything on people like Macauliffe who had little to do with singh sabha. Your ignorance is probable the cause of your sickness. LOL! So singh sabha existed in 1800? God you are a retard. Thankyou for the entertainment. Have a read of this whilst your crying into your keyboard: http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=255:raj-karega-khalsa&catid=34:english&Itemid=63

Three cocky hindustanis were in a bar and spotted a Sardar having a quiet drink. One of the hindustanis walked over to the Sardar, tapped him on the shoulder and said 'Oyee Sardar, I hear your Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a smelly, pervy faggot!' 'Oh really?' said the Sardar. 'I didn't know that.' Disappointed by the lack of reaction, the hindustani walked back to his friends and said 'I told him Ranjit Singh was a faggot, and he simply didnt care.' The second hindustani said 'Vijay, you just dont know how to pull his beard right. Watch and learn.' So he walked over to the Sardar, tapped him on the shoulder and said 'Oyee Singh, I hear your Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a cowardly, cross dressing faggot!' 'Oh really?' said the Sardar. 'I didn't know that.' Shocked, the hindustani went back to his friends and said 'You're right. He's unshakeable.' The third hindustani said 'Adil, my friend, you simply dont know how to deal with them. Dont worry I'll show you how to pull him out of chardikala!' So he walked over to the Sardar, tapped him on the shoulder and whinnied 'Oyee Sikh, I hear your Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a hindustani!!!' 'Yeah,' snorted the Sardar. 'That's what your friends were trying to tell me.'

Where did i say that you were actually attempting to help the palestinians? Even if you were it was a pitiful attempt. But if you want to be pedantic about this I'll tell you it is not 'their art', its crappy imitation in order to stir up crap in poor muslim youth who should be doing better things. Has anyone read Catch-22? In the book there is a character, Major Major if i remember correctly, who used to defend his communist friends in front of his right wing friends, and his right wing friends in front of his communist friends. As a result none of his friends bothered defending him and often described him as a dope. Unfortunately many sikhs are dopes as they dont understand the deeper meaning in most things so they end up getting swept up in emotion and attachment of causes that have nothing to do with the panth. To Matheen: what do you mean by help? Like saving them from the israelis and making eternal enemies of the jews, only to have the palestinians drive tanks and send commandoes into the Harimandir Sahib complex in a few centuries time? Why are sikhs so thick to human nature and mankind's history? As for it being music, well we also have the right to say what we think of the music. I'm also sure if someone started posting nazi marching songs that the thread wouldnt last, which is understandable.

If you actually read what I said, I never said that sikhs would forget who they are if idols were installed in gurudwaras. At least read my post #113 properly rather than insinuating in such a retarded fashion. I can read gurbani very well, and I act on what I learn, unlike you who stoops to such a low level yet still pretends to know it all. Unfortunately for you your ignorance and insanity still shine through. As for 'reading' Gurbani, we all know that an idiot who reads Gurbani is likely to be stupid enough to get it wrong. All you need to do is go on a hindu or muslim forum, or youtube, to see how many of those faiths' respective followers twist Gurbani. As for taking Gurbani literally, the SGGS Ji is not a literal book in the same sense as the koran or bible. Have you seen sugar cane scream in agony when it's boiled? Have you seen fire in a pregnant woman's womb? Have you been to a funeral where death used a club to smash someone's face in? You really have no idea what your on about. What a fool. Have you stopped crying yet? By the sounds of it you think Singh Sabha were a bunch of devils. We can all see that you blame them for sikhi not being how you personally want it to be, so stop making up rubbish to match whatever agenda you have. LOL! Your the hysterical one. How am I coward? At least say it to my face if you want to make such accusations. As for your 'divide and conquer games' and 'fear', I am sorry to tell you that you cant blame everything on what the british did. They certainly had a hand, but Singh Sabha was a genuine reaction to the situation the panth found itself in back then. So what is 'hindustan'? Or an islamic republic? Or a christian country? Just because you need to lie to justify your petty beliefs does not make what you say true. Secondly who said Khalsa Raj = Punjab? No one. Face it you snivelling hindu buttmunch, the Sikh Empire was a sign of how we sikhs made a name for ourselves in this world with out the scummy indians. And that's what unsettles you so much that you have to go on so much in order to stamp out any belief in sikh identity. So keep on crying because it's going to happen again. Next time we'll make sure india wont threaten us again. Never been on that site. What is it with people like you crying about Macauliffe all the time? Seriously change the record. Just because sikhi doesnt fit in with you hindu-centric rubbish doesnt mean we have to change. If you dont like it, go back to gujerat or whatever slum you crawled out of. More conspiracy mumbo-jumbo. You moan at us for going on about hindus, yet you are a lot worse blaming everything on singh sabha (which stopped a century ago) or sikhs in general.

Some people really do get too much pleasure out of running around fighting other people's battles. One of our Guru's died when asked for help by a persecuted people. If you really want to help the palestinians go and lie under an israeli tank or something rather than listening to this crap.

Changes dont happen overnight. Installing idols would not make sikhs forget who they were, but if left there over time would become more accepted over generations until the idols and SGGS Ji were considered the same. Luckily they were removed. As for not knowing about the hindu cults set up after the anglo-sikh wars, you're just showing your ignorance again. Do you really believe state and religion are seperate? Was the Khalsa meant to be a state of bliss rather than a nation? Sikhi is not some hindu mumbo jumbo, sikhi involves the real world and as sikhs of our gurus we are expected to be part of it. Well you can count yourself as one.

I think thats part of it. I also think that we sikhs dont have many ways of countering others without turning up the violence to obscene levels. That's why they run rings around us in peaceful times and slap our hands for overreacting - but when they take off the gloves, we end up crushing them eventually.

More hindus meant more power for them as a community, any idiot can see that. hindu dogras had destroyed 'sikh rule' and the next logical step was to target the sikh community. what about idols in gurudwaras? or hindus worshipping british officers and trying to convince sikhs in the area to do the same? the list of threats is endless, unfortunately i wasnt around then to tell you all of them. Its funny that when someone on this forum says anything bad about muslims, a select few always jump to their defence, no matter what. If anything is said about goreh, a few others jump up, the same thing happens. When even the smallest comment that hindus are not peace loving or respectful of other religions causes a load of hindustani apes to start hurling their excrement at the rest of us sikhs. Sikhs standing up for themselves may not be funny to you, but the english love the way hindus suck up to them. And they're still laughing. Now calm down you little sepoy monkey. As for 'master' tara singh, can you tell me what hindu far right organisation he set up? how sikh is that? tara singh was another stooge used by hindus to malign us. This goes back to the brahmin/hill rajah hatred of our gurus to the dogras to 84. Unfortunately, people like 'navjot' will always be able to pull the wool over innocent sikh's eyes. If you agree with his viewpoint expect to see more drugs in the punjab, more gurudwaras fall into disrepair and more hindu skewing of our once glorious nation. Elaborate on 'ideological stagnation'. Sounds like not keeping up with what the hindus want us to believe. LOL! Hypocrite alert!

Well bring it on then. Nothing like a bit of adversity and hardship to galvanize us into being better sikhs.

Well it's really nice that some of us agree that we shouldnt tolerate the use of this word. But where do we go from here? What will you do if someone calls you a paki in the street? Come on the net and moan? Or give them a taste of their own medicine? Of course we will now have those who say doing anything is against sikhi. We should spread love'n'shit, teach the chavs, bernard mannings and other white primitives about sikhi and live in some kind of hippy-fundamentalist-utopia. Which sounds nothing like the Khalsa Raj I was told about. What I'm trying to say is that a united voice, a united will and a united ferocity will stop any kind of racism against us. All this wishy-washyness each time the word is used or when we face racist acts will achieve nothing. Mind you I am all for thinking of words to counter the use of paki or creating a thread where we destroy their reasons for using the word. I'll start: the word paki is not the same as using the word aussie. When you speak to someone it is clear if they are australian or not. But when white people see an arab/indian and automatically say paki then it doesnt even follow their own logic. How do they know what pakistanis look like? Do they know any or are they just brainfarting? Pakistanis are mostly punjabis and therefore come in different colours and ethnic groups just like us east punjabis.

The fact is that when we sikhs were in control of the punjab we were a minority who ruled a majority. When we lost the anglo-sikh wars we were just like everyone else in the punjab, except there werent enough of us to count. So this talk of hinduism swallowing up sikhi was a real threat. Some accounts say that the number of sikhs fell by half after the anglo-sikh wars as many people converted back to their ancestor's faith. Those people who scream 'hinduphobia' everytime anything remotely negative is said about hindus/hinduism/hindustan need to go and get a life. Anyway, as people were reluctant to take up arms and recreate the Khalsa Raj, an alternative needed to be found in order to protect sikhi. This is where the Singh Sabha movement came in, with its good and bad side. Unfortunately, it was just a fundamentalist pipe dream as nothing matches having guns, troops and patriotic politicians. As you can see the effects of what happened then still reverberate around the community.

Right, but i think we are going in completely the wrong direction about this. What should happen is that the gurudwaras in britain should use the sangat's money to purchase these things and an independant sikh body should be responsible for storing them. Meanwhile, somewhere we should set up some kind of International Sikh Museum. I think building one in Lahore or Amritsar would be too dangerous, especially as I dont trust the sulleh or hindus. Somewhere like New York or London would be better. These goods can then be stored there. If a Gurudwara is set up in or near the musuem, it can help pay for the up keep. A research institute and college/university could be set up in time too. At the same time we really badly need a sikh pressure group to twist the hand of govt and royalty. If they were on side it would be easier to squeeze the people holding onto these items. When they decide to sell them, we will be able to clean up. Of course this is a bit far fetched as we are too disorganized to do much as a community. As for the stuff stolen in 84, i dont think they will give it up. Most of what the british took was general looting, where as the hindustani govt are deliberately keeping certain things in order to alter them or just hinder our understanding of our history rather than for leverage or monetary gain.

Its completely acceptable as long as I can use honkey, island monkey, pinkface etc or any other word to describe them. Having said that i dont have a problem when sikhs use it to describe muslims from pakistan, but when a white person uses it that is a completely different thing. Though they will justify with their usual garbage logic.

Are people genuinely saying its fine that they are selling these things? Would we really have been stupid enough to destroy our own 'artefacts' if we had beaten the british? Even if we did, why is there such attachment to such objects? Come on guys, the british stole a ton of stuff from us and to say that they kept good care of them is a joke. Plenty of items have disappeared or been destroyed by the british. After partition/84, many of them probably only kept them in the hope of using them as leverage or selling them at a high price to the sikh nation. As that didnt happen and with times getting tough in the uk, the owners probably think that some hindustani muppet would be dumb enough to cough up the price being asked. Which makes sense as they now hold our reins rather than the goreh. Oh well. Reminds me of the 300 anniversary celebrations in 1999, where there was some coconut on tv with one of the original compilations of SGGS Ji in a posh british library somewhere. The coconut had the nerve to say 'Isnt it great how our gurus sent this to england and a few centuries later, here we are too!'. Supposedly he was a historian as well, who didnt even know the british had stolen it. No wonder we get so excited over a few random items that surface every now and again.