Gupt Singh

shaolin also try thai boxing thats good

hey guys of course it was gurus hukam 5 people were gonna come up - he knew exactly who they were before they even stood up. guruji is all knowing. baba deep singh was also in that crowd, and many others. they were brave enough to give their head but they didnt. there is a reason behind everything. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moderator note: No rumour or personal views. This site should not be used for personal views but for real facts and references.

ever thought that women look at men in "that" way aswell? of course women can be in the panj pyare. look. there werent any white or black people in the original panj. does that mean there cant be a white or black panj today? of course not. it was gurus hukam that 5 men came up and they were predestined, but women can still be in the panj!!!!!

1 thing i did find funny was the claim that if u didnt have the dasam granth present at amrit sanskar ur amrit is invalid....lol that means the original panj pyare werent the real deal "snaatan singh akali nihung khalsa amrit-dhari sant sipahi" LOL

Look, if a brother and sister wanted Anand Karaj would u allow it? What about Mother and Son? But if you dont allow it, that isnt equality right? Come on. If your gay, supress it. Guruji has classed it with incest. WRONG. W R O N G. if you want to disagree with him, then go ahead.....but why not disagree on some other stuff while your at it! And what dont u agree with me on Triya Charitrer? Do u disagree with it?

i think its completely wrong. we shoudlnt meddle with waheguru. banis says 4 or 5 origins of life i think - womb born, egg born, sweat born, soil born and something else lol......none of those is test tube born.

if sardar baldev singh had accepted the british offer in 1947, or master tara singh stopped bumlicking congress and nehru, we would have a khalistan now for sure! WE WERE OFFERED IT BY THE BRITS BUT WE TURNED IT DOWN!

ironically this issue could be solved very easily if peeps like SGPC were a little more liberal...but i mean liberal with works such as hakayat and triya charitrer in the dasam granth. triya charitrer (i think im spelling it wrong, the 404 stories of women) talks about most issues related to this kind of stuff but the sgpc say it is not gurus bani because it is too "obscene". people forget what the aim of this epic writing actually is - to educate people on how this kind of stuff is WRONG.....a growing problem in sikhism is teens having premarital sex....if they read triya charitrer they would see exactly WHY they shouldnt. anyway, ill stop ranting lol. in triya charitrer i believe guruji classes homosexuality in the same catagory as incest etc, its unnatural and ethically wrong, but theres no quranic draconian laws like KILL THE GAYS or anything like that. anand karaj should definately NOT be for gay people, and they should learn to subdue their kaam, in my opinion.

come one someone answer my question!!!!! are there 5 tiers of HEAVEN also....dharam khand at bottom and saach khand at top?

anyone able 2 answer my question also......on that site it says guru gobind singh kept wanting to make chandi appear.....thats rubbish rite? is it connected to the story where the brahmins tried to make her appear and he proved them wrong etc?

i have asked on akj message board and also a relative if the panj tell u not to recite ragmalla.... and they DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT RAGMALLA on the day of amrit so this means i can still recite it when i take amrit

why u lot being so harsh to akj? a) being anti-Raagmala - many others are also anti ragmalla. i myself are not but at a time ragmalla wasnt even at akal takht. im not sure if it even is today. some say after released from jail bhai sahib did believe in ragmalla compolsory keski for women, - THATS A GOOD THING - go to india and see how many keskied ladies you see - singhnees are meant to wear keski. bhindranwale tried to convince his wife to wear but she wouldnt. gurbuchan singh bhindranwales family all did. "c) compulsory "naam drirh" (which incidentally arises from Radasoami influence)" - please explain the radhswami influence in it. i find it very beautiful "d) puritanical fanatic compulsory vegetarianism," inline with hukamnamas from guru arjun, guru hargobind, rahit (which includes the maryada of damdami taksal, sarbat khalsa, even some nihung jathas) and even a hukamnama from banda singh bahudur? e) what can only be described as "pakhand" Kirtan (devoid of Raags) - if you dont see the beauty in akj keertan, then you indeed are devoid of any kind of love for waheguru! f) brahminical use of Sarbloh (amongst the self-proclaimed "bebeki" AKJ) - ironically nihungs and taksal also practise sarbloh bibeki. g) their endless renditions of Bhai Randhir Singh's texts which are equivalent to the Christian 10 commandments. - stop quoting off baba santa singh and other nihungs then. you would be stupid to not admit bhai randhir singh was an extremely spritual gurmukh. They also reveal through their actions a complete LACK of knowledge with regard to: a) Gurmat Sangeet (knowledge of Raags and musical meters) - im no akj expert but they do use raags sometimes im sure Shastar Vidiya (knowledge of combat arts) - well nihungs have a monopoly on that what do u expect? c) Ayurveda (knowledge of medicine) - LOL! and your saying all nihungs and all other jathebandis are all well versed in that? d) Santhia (correct learning of Scriptures) - how? e) Katha (expounding scriptures and historical texts) - how? f) Ithihaas (historical study)- how?

i always thought the 5 tiers also applied to the 5 tiers of heaven also after mukti - dharam khand was for bhagats etc gyan khand for good khalsa sikhs saram khand was for spiritaully high sikhs etc karam khand was for shaheeds n sach khand was for saints and the gurus etc is that right or am i totally wrong

how comes alot of times when bhai randhir singh went gurdwara they recited it there n he didnt mind then?

i aint bashing any jatha!!!!!! its very likely that any ideas people got on bhai randhir singh were from before he got put in jail. after he got let out, teja singh was excommunicated and bhai sahib severed his relationship with him. therefore it is probably around htis period he started questioning what teja singh had tought him - gurmantar, ragmalla. the biography of kartar singh bhindranwale (is that the right guy?) still stands...i have seen the scan from hte book in punjabi myself - either he was lying or bhai sahib believed rag malla! youve got to choose one or the other! r u absoultely sure the akj panj tell u not to recite ragmalla.....if so then are there any other jathas which believe keski is a kakkar?

jassa go to the fauj.3giga ragmalla page. it pretty much destroys any anti ragmalla theory. there is a scan from i think kartar singh bhindranwales book. it clearly states that after bhai sahib met kartar singh bhindranwale he now believed in ragmalla after reading the subtle spiritual meanings. it also says that after taking amrit from teja singh he believed the gurmantar was wahguru rather than waheguru but corrected his belief on this also. the author of the page aswell says there are no books written after the visit by bhai sahib on ragmalla. so therefore we can conclude one of two things: 1. bhai randhir singh did believe in ragmalla after his beliefs were corrected. 2. the jathedar of the damdami taksal is lying, which is rather a knock to the credibility of the taksal and a saint. take yah pick......i know which one im choosing!

lol just one more thing......your other points contradict your akj hating! "1. Less Faith in sikhi and gave up kesh and become mona in 1984.. possibly settled in canada and uk now have power of surrey gurughar... where they created table and chairs issue" akj are completely with akal takht on this one. akj also have the strictest rahit around. "2. People who were khalistanis and become anti-khalistan and govertment agents..Again Less Faith and greed for money!!!" babbar khalsa are pro khalistan. they are essentially extreeeeme akjers. "3. Panth started gettin divided among sgpc.. sell out peeps.. creating issues like women seeva etc... akal takth jathedars clean indian govt shoes with their dharis" but jathedars like bhai sukhdev singh babbar fought for the panth! and akj doesnt like sgpc much either! "4. Few groups within nihangis calling emselves sher when they had no contributions whatsoever at the times of 84 where panth need more heads!.. slandering the shaheeds by calilng em fanatics." slandering shaheeds like bhai talwinder singh, bhai fauja singh, bhai sukhdev singh.....all akj.....n bhai im not saying u completely did....but by dismissing akj views harshly u did sorta semi nindya on bhai randhir singh too.......

hey hey hey hey guys i am a soon to be akj lol (but still KHALSA most importantly) i BELIEVE in rag malla bhai randhir singh actually believed in rag malla also. this is not a well known fact but it is written in the autobiography of one of the taksaali jathedars, i think sant kartar singh bhindranwale (was there such a person?) however the akj generally do not believe rag malla. but it is not only akj who do not believe in rag malla, and it is not required to reject rag malla. i didnt like that akj bashing at the end you know. you can bash akj when you have soared to the spiritual heights of the likes of bhai randhir singh ji, who is possibly one of hte most spiritually advanced people we have had for 100s of years, or laid down your life for the panth like bhai fauja singh. "Akj infiltration in western countries" oh come on. you mean "people understanding the philosophy behind the points of contention in the rehit maryada that are similar to that of akj view? "...calling kesh as keski.." as per bhai chaupa singhs rehitnama and the vahees of the bhatt which are recognised as the most reliable sources? and also through the darshan from guru gobind singh that bhai randhir singh ji received? and subtley implied by rehitnamas of bhai daya singh and bhai prahlad singh? yep. others such as bhai rama singh had darshan from guru gobind singh saying KESKI is KAKKAR before they even heard of the akj or grew their hair! (read in search of the true guru by bhai rama singh) before 1930s all ladies were required to wear keski. now the rules have been eased off and no women care....and who is keeping the tradition alive? "distorting gurbani (ie- rejection of rag malla in sggs)" that is a fault of the jatha thru misunderstanding, not that of bhai randhir singh "and also distorting different musical ragas with their own ones" you what? akj kirtan is really beautiful. no, REALLY beautiful. everyone knows that. "...distorting shastar vidiya by puttin forgein martial arits into of what they soo called "gatka" ." oh here come the nihungs. whose fault is it that martial arts isnt well known by the sikhs? well the nihungs arent teaching many. the brits killed half the nihungs too. people like bhai fauja singh were teaching something which they thought was right. gatka might not be as good as shastar vidiya but at least its brought some people into learning how to use a kirpan......and what about the nihungs...who distort khalsa by saying jhatka and bhaang (weed) is ok? and the dasam and sarabloh granths arent just granths but GURUS? "AKJ USING MONOPLIC WAY OF PROVING THATS IS WRONG TO EAT MEAT!!!" WHAT!!!! sarbat khalsa rahit, probably the most reliable rahit (damdami taksal), even some nihung jatha rahits say MEAT IS NOT ALLOWED. if you think its ok to eat beef chicken or whatnot when guru arjun, guru tegh bahadur, guru gobind singh and banda singh bahadur all give hukamnamas not to, plus (altho controversy of) condemnation of meat in SGGS, then go ahead..and have some bhaang while yah at it! "ITS THEIR WAY OR HIGHWAY!!! AND ALSO REJECTION OF SANTS... THAT SANTS DONT JUST EXIST !!" the word sant is surely over used today. its hard enough being a sikh never mind a sant. bhai randhir singh was indeed a saint but he was never called sant randhir singh because he was still human.....only the gurus are superhuman. maan the akj have done so much seva for the panth. what have YOU done for the panth? we have no right to condemn anything in sikhi unless it is 100percent crystal clear it is wrong. not just because we dont understand why someone believes something. think like a child does, n keep an open mind. best way 2 learn in sikhi.

sikhism is tolerant but its not exactly the best way to ask a question saying "beards get very dirty" is it? im not being harsh, but if you ask a question with what i think r very subtle hints of poking fun at sikhism, u cant expect anything less back.

man i wud be sorry....but go to www.sikh-history.com....go to sibyas post.....according to her she caught her muslim "friend" on msn and in the chatroom it was saying go on sikhnet and sikh history with fake names dont diss them or give urself away straight away...try n convert ppl etc etc

bhai i cant give u exact references but if u check out the www.akj.org and www.tapoban.org websites, go to articles/gurmat and then rehat points of controversy/or bibek if u are on tapoban, scroll down and they give some rehatnamas relating to this. however i dont think they are the best ones, i have heard better ones. if ur kids are kesadhari etc im sure its fine. children are usually very pure and free of the 5 sins, etc, i believe ego only actually starts developing later on.

JT SINGH not really. i accept all the dasam granth as real are u honestly telling me you think all rehitnamas are reliable. if we were, then we must also add the following things to the rehit women cant take amrit (chaupa singh) brahmins rule ok! (chaupa singh) bhai chaupa singh was one of the panj (chaupa singh) take a bath in cold water only, and use x amount (bhai prahlad singh i think) im not saying all rahitnamas are useless, if u cross references all of them u can come out with something quite reliable. but if i have a choice in terms of authenticity between a personal interpritation of the khalsa which may have been altered, and basically a newspaper report (that what i wud compare it to), i know which one i would go with! i never said all rehitnamas are bad. i fully back the rehit maryada on everything apart from jhatka and keski. the jhatka problem is resolved by using hte sarbat khalsa, akj, or taksaali rehit maryada, and the keski one as described previously. there is a definate answer in sggs on meat its just some people refuse to accept it. if i wanted to i could twist sggs to prove a living guru is required. kutha is meat. full stop. we see the verb "kuthey" used in sggs meaning "to kill" or "killing" not "halalifying". kutha is banned therefore all meat is banned.

can i just say sikhism rejects the idea of "love" with someone else. dhaevugu(n)dhhaaree mehulaa 9 || Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree, Ninth Mehl: juguth mai jhoot(h)ee dhaekhee preeth || In this world, I have seen love to be false. apunae hee sukh sio subh laagae kiaa dhaaraa kiaa meeth ||1|| rehaao || Whether they are spouses or friends, all are concerned only with their own happiness. ||1||Pause|| maero maero subhai kehuth hai hith sio baadhhiou cheeth || All say, ""Mine, mine"", and attach their consciousness to you with love. a(n)th kaal su(n)gee neh kooo eih achuruj hai reeth ||1|| But at the very last moment, none shall go along with you. How strange are the ways of the world! ||1|| mun moorukh ajehoo neh sumujhuth sikh dhai haariou neeth || The foolish mind has not yet reformed itself, although I have grown weary of continually instructing it. naanuk bhoujul paar purai jo gaavai prubh kae geeth ||2||3||6||38||47|| O Nanak, one crosses over the terrifying world-ocean, singing the Songs of God. ||2||3||6||38||47|| read this topic where people discussed it. http://www.akj.org/phorum/read.php?f=3&i=6159&t=6159

bhaji my evidence for NO JHATKA is very simple. there are few reliable accounts of what happened on vaisakhi 1699. hell even the hukamnama to kabul is FAKE. so what actually happened? what did guru ji say? should we look at rehitnamas which have been changed and warped? nah. we have 2 REALLY STRONG SOURCES 1. GURBANI 2. VAHEES OF BHATT gurbani mentions jhatka in the context of food NO WHERE. vahees of bhatt, basically poets who chronicled events at hte time, were like the newspaper of the time. all scholars acknowledge this kind of thing as THE MOST RELIABLE source. at what does it say? it says two things. firstly it says the kakkar is KESGI not KES. this is backed up by common sense, one or 2 rehitnamas, and implied in a lot of them. akj believe in keski. also it says HARAAM AND HALAL IS PROHIBITED. Halaal is worse because to pray whilst murdering is v bad. but HARAAM also. Read the account yourself. Also, the SARBAT KHALSA REHIT MARYADA, as well as TAKSAL, AKJ and some nihung jathas, also say NO MEAT AT ALL. theres so much anti meat stuff in gurbani its not even funny. plus theres guru hargobinds hukamnama, and guru arjuns, all saying no meat or fish. and kutha means meat, as studying verbs in the guru granth sahib proves! ill have to look up the bhai daya singh thing but i reckon it was meant to be poetic. i thought it sounded pretty cool.

sikhi should be spread by example not by running about with conversion techniques. for example bhai randhir singh - one of my relatives met him - werent devout at all.....just saw him at a resavae....and they were literally hypnotised by his faith, and now they have become stricter singh...as i have told many before the power he had was so high that during such keertan the tabla player would be unable to stop playing etc, his hands would bleed everywhere yet he could not stop. basically, just concentrate on yourself and your sikhi. once your solid in that and you demonstrate excellent qualities people will become interested. do not go around forcing stuff down people, tell them if htey are interested though. what i find funny is so many muslim/christian/whatever missionaries use the scientific miracle thing to pull converts. what people forget is in guru granth sahib ji that there arent ambigious lines, but CLEAR scientific references, for example actually using the word "evolution" and "the globe of the world", as well as "he made living beings from rocks and stones" which is proved scientificially as we came from ocean rocks etc. also evidence of big bang, guru tegh bahadurs bubbling theory, these arent twisted quotes they are obvious pointers that sikhi is wholly divine. yet most sikhs havent even read their guru granth sahib properly to pick them up, never mind show them off and shout about them to others (which isnt right anyway).