wahegurubol Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Infact all religions specify the need for a Guru(Teacher) to reach God or become Jivan Mukta, whatever word you want to call it. In Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Sikhism all these religions specify the basic and primary need for a Guru to reach God, except other rleigions like Islam and Christainity which focus on being in Heaven. From the above religions, I have noticed that Sikhism is the only religion that very deeply and boldly placed the importance of a Guru, infact it even goes as far as saying that without Guru there is no Enlightenment and I do agree with this, considering the fact that we have been chaurasi lakh and so many joons i t is IMPOSSIBLE in Kal Yug to reach enlightenment without Guru, a guide. but who is a Guru ? If you go and see in buddhism, anyone who has meditated for a few years and had some uncommon spiritual experiences, becomes a Guru and begins to lead other students, same also goes for Hinduism, where we can see so many swamis, mahatmas just popping up, who after having few ridhi sidhis become Gurus themsleves. but how far can these human Gurus really guide us ? If you go and tell them that you want to meet God and then they say "You have to do this, I can only guide you , but you have to be enlightened by yourself." In no ways are these Gurus capable of guiding us through the ocean of maya. In my opinion a TRUE GURU will be one who not only will guide you while alive , but will also guide you and take you after death ! when you are no longer in this physical body. This is why in Sikhism, the word Guru is less used but the word "SATGURU" appears more often, which means "TRUE GURU"... I am writing this because I had myself been a subject to a human Guru who use to claim that even people who are half-enlightened can lead others, but in Sikhism there is no half enlightenment, there is only FULLY ENLIGHTENED or No Enlightened. In Sikhism if you want to pass the exam you need 100% marks , 99% is also considered fail. So we should all feel lucky and thankful that we already have a Satguru, Shri Guru Granth Sahib ! The first basic step for any individual is to find a True Guru, but Maharaaj has already done that kirpa on us ! I had met a great gursikh in India, who had even darshan of Baba Deep Singh ji. He said that there are two types of people, The first type is those who reach God by their own effort and the second type is those who get bakshish of God, but those who get bakshish or mercy of God will definetly reach God. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 In Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Sikhism all these religions specify the basic and primary need for a Guru to reach God, except other rleigions like Islam and Christainity which focus on being in Heaven. Heaven and Hell exists even for Sikhs too. Heaven is where Satguru is, to be with him is heavenly. Hell is somewhere where your in a place of darkness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahegurubol Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 yes i agree with you but in islam and christainity. Haeven is a permanent place where you live after death, its like a paradise .... and hell is like fire... where you will burn for entire eternity ! lol .. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 If you go and see in buddhism, anyone who has meditated for a few years and had some uncommon spiritual experiences, becomes a Guru and begins to lead other students, same also goes for Hinduism, where we can see so many swamis, mahatmas just popping up, who after having few ridhi sidhis become Gurus themsleves. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- W-Bol, the same is true for Sikhs today - anyone with a White Chola and round White Turban becomes a Sant, the reality is that whilst people may insist that this is our Sant, and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib our Guru, they are in fact treating the Sant or "Spiritual Teacher" like a Guru. Perhaps have a closer look into the traditions you mentioned and have more open mind as opposed to judging everything at face value - the problems you keep highlighting with other religions are evident within the Sikh community too - no one group is exempt, however just like the Sikh community may not always live up to Sikh ideals, the same goes for any other community, so in summary, please get off this "let's big up ourselves and put everyone else down" type attitude that can be found amongst Sikhs today from the likes of you through to parcharaks and gyanis. Let's not forget you have already made "death threats" on this forum which are in many legal jurisdictions, including that of your own country, a criminal offence, yet it is very easy to pick up another community for similar actions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahegurubol Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Niranjana, I am not trying big myself up and put others down. All I am saying that Sikhs are blessed to have Sat Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib, where as in other paths.. there is no Guru and spiritual aspirant's first step is to find that TRUE GURU. As for sants in our own community, lets not forget that we have had some of the greatest sants like Baba Nand Singh Sahib, Sant Ishar Singh, Sant Harnaam Singh Rampur Khere waley and the names go on ... ... Yes, there are some fake dudes also, but a true sant is one that will talk about the SGGS only ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 As for sants in our own community, lets not forget that we have had some of the greatest sants like Baba Nand Singh Sahib, Sant Ishar Singh, Sant Harnaam Singh Rampur Khere waley and the names go on ... ... Yes, there are some fake dudes also, but a true sant is one that will talk about the SGGS only ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By the same token, the true Mahatma will talk about the Vedas et al only, the true Saint will refer only to the Bible, the true Iman to the Koran and so forth... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahegurubol Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 No, not at all.. i know so many mahatamas who also rejected the vedas.. and u r forgetting koran , vedas are "books" SGGS is SATGURU ! ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 W-bol, have you heard any of Sant Isher Singh Ji's divans? Furthermore, look into the lives and teachings of all the Mahapursh you mention. Nowhere do they insult another religion or 'reject' the vedas or koran. Being Sikhs, there is no need to get involved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Matheen, This is precisely my point. Whilst w-bol hasn't as yet on this thread gone this far, his line of argument is heading down the same route as many Sikh Preachers, which usually works along the following example: 1. Raise an issue through finding some objectionable practice in another religion (usually Hinduism for most), such as gender equality or rituals for instance. 2. Dwell on the point for a while to drum up at best a low-opinion of the subject matter and the religion being assessed (usually incorrectly). 3. Then for the conclusion come in with a thundering finale about how only Sikhi provides solace and overcomes these negative aspects and therefore is the one true path and so on and so forth. This type of preaching is admittedly common amongst all faiths (sadly) and to a degree can be seen as a reaction by the Sikhs, however it has done nothing to promote Sikhi and done a lot to damage it and partly explains the activities of say the RSS and others in the petty tit-for-tat war over historical and scriptural revisionism that has unfortunately resulted from it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 I fetched this from sevapanthi site made by our belowed forum- tsingh: source : http://www.sewapanthi.org/htmls/manglacharan.html ~Puratan MangalCharan ~ Firstly meditating upon Aatam Dev Nirmal Jot, of Sat Chit Anand Svaroop Then I bow to the lotus feet of Ishtadev SatGuru Maharaj, Dasaan Patshahian di Jot Finally I offer salutations to my Gurdev/Murshid , under whose guidance. All efforts blossom forth Sat Sri Akaal ! All the puratan samparda's have distincation between ishatdev and vidya gurdev because levels of avtars- ishatdev being guru avtar and vidya gurdev being nit avtars. I think in the khalsa panth as opposed to hindu orders, there is distincation made between ishatdev and vidya gurdev. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahegurubol Posted November 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 what is ishtadev and vidya gurdev as far khalsa panth is concerned there is only one TRUE GURU... emphasis is placed on the word "TRUE" ..that only a Guru who is united with God can be called a Guru unlike other panths where even a swami becomes a Guru. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 w-bol, you are confusing the concept of Sat Guru as defined in Sikhi with the word Guru which is a term available for any teacher (my music teacher is my Guru and I refer to him as Guru Jee, this in no way implies that I am placing him equally or higher than the Sri Guru Granth Sahib). Please try getting off your "I'm a Sikh, so I'm the best" high horse and actually read up on the words/quotes/references you keep using. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Kharag Singh Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 well said niranjana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahegurubol Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 man niranjana, i just placed my opinion there. you guys are so rude on this forum with no manner and no humility. all i said was in that the word :True: is always placed emphasis in Gurbani, that only a True Guru can take you out of maya... many times you will find that Gurbani tells thatonly a Poora Guru one who is united and can unite others is authentic. And yes, there are many Gurus , who claim to lead people to jivan mukti, but they are incomplete.... and you are saying that i have a "better than others" attitude. People on this forum is so criticising each other's opinion. I have never seen a forum like this, this is why with people like you we are having sikhi falling apart. I guess you better need to practice naam simran, do you even do you amrit vela and the 7 banis ?? BYE 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 w-bol, Please grow up and be a man. This is a discussion forum, that means we discuss matters, opinions, propose/defend arguments, if you want to ‘feel the love’ then pm someone to have a nice chit-chat or get together to sing kirtan/do paath. You come here, insinuate all sorts of underhand comments and now when challenged cry that people are being “rude with no manner(s) and no humilityâ€, where have your manners and humility been when you bring about absurd stories concerning a girl being gang raped and forced to eat excrement making the news of dying women being urinated upon being “not as sickâ€, do you even realise the folly of some of the things you say! You take objection at the “better than others†attitude that you have been critiqued with, yet still seek to take the moral high ground in your closing statement challenging others on their maintenance of Amritvela and Nitnem! Sikhi is not falling apart because people here are happy to have their views or opinions challenged or critiqued! People’s opinions or views are not sacred, only Gurbani is and to date no one is challenging Gurbani, unlike other forums where the sanctity of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib even is challenged and the validity of the Sri Dasam Granth disputed. Getting over emotional does not to validate your points! Gur Fateh! Niranjana. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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