For whom do you shed a tear when someone dies?

[Pheena]

When someone dies my question is for whom is this sadness for?

Are we expressing some type of selfishness when a loved one dies?....'why did he/she leave me?' 'who am I going to call dad/mom/son/daughter/uncle?' 'Shud kay chala giya mainu' 'hun mai ke karu ga os to bina' and many other variation of expression that in some ways involve us being the victim of their bodily death. Such expression are generally made by those who had close relations to that body and by being close to them we often feel some type of injustice is being done by them leave us. That it is we that will have to deal with the loss.

What about the person who has died? The Man, the Uncle, the Daughter, the Mother who's body has died...Poor us we say, poor us...how will we survive we say....What about that soul that departed the body? Who then are these tears for? If these tears are for the one who had died then should they be shed with Sadness or with Love? I'm not suggesting that we should not be emotional, but i'm trying to contemplate on the cause of this emotions...what drives these tears or what should drive these tears?

[Matheen]

moh.....

[shaheediyan]

The tears could be for ourselves, for our perceived loss... or they could be for the departed, if we think that their life had been unfulfilled in some way.

I found the following partially quoted shabd amazing in terms of relating to this subject:

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਸਦੁ

Raamkalee, Sadd ~ The Call Of Death:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਜਗਿ ਦਾਤਾ ਸੋਇ ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਤਿਹੁ ਲੋਇ ਜੀਉ ॥

He is the Great Giver of the Universe, the Lover of His devotees, throughout the three worlds.

ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਵਏ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ ਜੀਉ ॥

One who is merged in the Word of the Guru's Shabad does not know any other.

ਅਵਰੋ ਨ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੇ ॥

Dwelling upon the Word of the Guru's Shabad, he does not know any other; he meditates on the One Name of the Lord.

ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਅੰਗਦ ਪਰਮ ਪਦਵੀ ਪਾਵਹੇ ॥

By the Grace of Guru Nanak and Guru Angad, Guru Amar Das obtained the supreme status.

ਆਇਆ ਹਕਾਰਾ ਚਲਣਵਾਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥

And when the call came for Him to depart, He merged in the Name of the Lord.

ਜਗਿ ਅਮਰੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਅਤੋਲੁ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

Through devotional worship in this world, the imperishable, immovable, immeasurable Lord is found. ||1||

ਹਰਿ ਭਾਣਾ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਇਆ ਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

The Guru gladly accepted the Lord's Will, and so the Guru easily reached the Lord God's Presence.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਹਿ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਪੈਜ ਰਖਹੁ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

The True Guru prays to the Lord, "Please, save my honor. This is my prayer".

ਪੈਜ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਨਹ ਕੇਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੋ ॥

Please save the honor of Your humble servant, O Lord; please bless him with Your Immaculate Name.

ਅੰਤਿ ਚਲਦਿਆ ਹੋਇ ਬੇਲੀ ਜਮਦੂਤ ਕਾਲੁ ਨਿਖੰਜਨੋ ॥

At this time of final departure, it is our only help and support; it destroys death, and the Messenger of Death.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਪਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਸੁਣੀ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

The Lord God heard the prayer of the True Guru, and granted His request.

ਹਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਧਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਕਹੈ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥

The Lord showered His Mercy, and blended the True Guru with Himself; He said, "Blessed! Blessed! Wonderful!"||2||

ਮੇਰੇ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਪੁਤ ਭਾਈਹੋ ਮੇਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਣਾ ਆਉ ਮੈ ਪਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

Listen O my Sikhs, my children and Siblings of Destiny; it is my Lord's Will that I must now go to Him.

ਹਰਿ ਭਾਣਾ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਇਆ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਕਰੇ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

The Guru gladly accepted the Lord's Will, and my Lord God applauded Him.

ਭਗਤੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੋਈ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਾਣਾ ਭਾਵਏ ॥

One who is pleased with the Lord God's Will is a devotee, the True Guru, the Primal Lord.

ਆਨੰਦ ਅਨਹਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਵਾਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਗਲਿ ਮੇਲਾਵਏ ॥

The unstruck sound current of bliss resounds and vibrates; the Lord hugs him close in His embrace.

ਤੁਸੀ ਪੁਤ ਭਾਈ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨਿ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਨਿਰਜਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

O my children, siblings and family, look carefully in your minds, and see.

ਧੁਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਇ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥

The pre-ordained death warrant cannot be avoided; the Guru is going to be with the Lord God. ||3||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭਾਣੈ ਆਪਣੈ ਬਹਿ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ॥

The True Guru, in His Own Sweet Will, sat up and summoned His family.

ਮਤ ਮੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਕੋਈ ਰੋਵਸੀ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਭਾਇਆ ॥

Let no one weep for me after I am gone. That would not please me at all.

ਮਿਤੁ ਪੈਝੈ ਮਿਤੁ ਬਿਗਸੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਿਤ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਭਾਵਏ ॥

When a friend receives a robe of honor, then his friends are pleased with his honor.

ਤੁਸੀ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਪੁਤ ਭਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪੈਨਾਵਏ ॥

Consider this and see, O my children and siblings; the Lord has given the True Guru the robe of supreme honor.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਬਹਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਟਿਕਾਇਆ ॥

The True Guru Himself sat up, and appointed the successor to the Throne of Raja Yoga, the Yoga of Meditation and Success.

ਸਭਿ ਸਿਖ ਬੰਧਪ ਪੁਤ ਭਾਈ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੪॥

All the Sikhs, relatives, children and siblings have fallen at the Feet of Guru Ram Das. ||4||

[Guest]

great posts pheena, thats human nature is to express loss around that time of those closed ones. Only tat veta bhramgyani/atamgyani is above from such emotions, because they have gyan that death is of body not for atma. Body is mithya, atma is sat chit anand. Only they are above from these emotions.

We as jaigaso/utam jaiagaso can sing the gyan of atma all day long but if we havent expereinced that gyan, when sh!@@ hits the fan we will fall same trap as rest of duniya which is moh(attachment) both temporary and permant.

This leads to an another interesting question to all-

if a mother looses her young son, she gets soo shocked by her loss that she started to see her young son in everyone, every kid out there..people call her insane but is that really sign of insanity?? is that reflection(partibimb)/signs of bhram dristhi?

I personally think thats a reflection of bhramdristi but in ignorance(sukhopati avastha).

appreciate sangat's feedback on this?

[Wicked Warrior]

Attachment isn't just to objects, wealth etc but also to people. When we know someone, we are connected to them in some way. For close relatives, this connection is stronger. You become used to the way your life mingles with that of theirs and when they die, you feel that "missing".

When I first went to uni, my mother felt that the house was empty, that it had lost something. Even she missed me. Why should she not? I had been part of her life for eighteen years.

Death is seen as a sad occasion. You are meant to feel sad for the loss of of someone's family member. I have seen people die and feel almost nothing. I feel for the end of that person's life but very little for the family. When someone is old, you are in some way prepared but when someone dies young, it is unexpected and abrupt.

As for "bhramdristi" - I do not believe so. When a mother loses her child and sees him/her everywhere, it is more of a coping mechanism, trying to believe that the child is still alive rather than deal with the cold hard fact that the child is dead.

[shaheediyan]

"When someone is old, you are in some way prepared but when someone dies young, it is unexpected and abrupt."

Interestingly I have known some Punjabi people to distribute sweets on an elders death i.e. after the Akhand Paath, but never at young persons death. In essence, being positive about someone who has lived a "full" life, and sad about someone who died prematurely.

Obviously this is more culture based than faith based.