To Much Emphasis On Outer Rehat & Amrit?

[Ghostface Killah]

Maybe its just me but there seems to be hardly any discussion or katha in gurdwareh about Sikh philsosophy or theology or any adhyatmic discussions. In todays age too me there seems emphasis on just taking amrit and wearing the 5ks. Now again maybe its just me but wherever you go its always "amrit shako jahajeh charo" being said. Which leads to people taking amrit but having no clue about anything. Which leads to some what of thugish behaviour by amritdharis to others who may question there beliefs or attacks on people with opposing views.

Also is initation really important? what is the difference between say an amritdhari living a Sikh lifestyle and a non amritdhari living a Sikh lifestyle? Isnt it the same other than maybe the outer appearance?

What i am trying to say i think is should amrit be given out so easily?

[Matheen]

Initiation is important - it's the starting point. Don't know where you live, but try to listen to katha by visiting Mahapursh or vidhyarthis from traditional sampardas and you will get to hear a lot of spiritual stuff.

The situation today means that there needs to be grassroots parchar at a basic level. Just getting people to start doing paath, seva, simran, keep 5 Kakkars etc.

There's katha on the internet by various Mahapursh who explain the spirtual reasons for taking Amrit and the effect it has.

[Ghostface Killah]

Any links?

[Xylitol]

www.gurmatveechar.com

[HarjasDevi]

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਲੀਨੀ ॥

sathigur dhaekhiaa dheekhiaa leenee ||

Beholding the True Guru, I have received His Teachings.

ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਅਰਪਿਓ ਅੰਤਰ ਗਤਿ ਕੀਨੀ ॥

man than arapiou anthar gath keenee ||

I have offered my mind and body, after searching deep within my own being.

ਗਤਿ ਮਿਤਿ ਪਾਈ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨੀ ॥੪॥

gath mith paaee aatham cheenee ||4||

I have come to realize the value of understanding my own soul.

~SGGS Ji ang 227

Gurbani actually teaches the necessity of Dheekya or Dheeksha. In the first instance, you cannot have a Guru-disciple relationship without having been formally accepted by the Guru. Diksha/initiation is that formal acceptance. In the traditional sanatan teaching, the Guru is united with God/Parabrahm and is the only person who has the power to open your inner chakras, cleanse your vikaars and wash your karmas, and by His grace give you an experience of Divine Darshan. So a Guru is indispensible for ever obtaining mukti, let alone becoming an authentically spiritual person. Diksha gives you the grace of Guru to empower the practices which He prescribes which will lead you to ultimate liberation/mukt. Without the Guru's acceptance of you as a chela, you have no bond, no formal discipline owed to the Guru. You are your own master and can do whatever you want. Once you become a chela, you dedicate yourself to the Spiritual Master. You surrender your head, throw your ego down which is the meaning of the term "prapatti."

Without this, you cannot be considered a chela/shishya/disciple/sikh.

ਤੂੰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹਉ ਨਉਤਨੁ ਚੇਲਾ ॥

thoon sathigur ho nouthan chaelaa ||

You are the True Guru, and I am Your new disciple.

~SGGS Ji ang 324

ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਅਗਮੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥

pranavath naanak agam sunaaeae ||

Prays Nanak, I share the mysterious secrets of God.

ਗੁਰ ਚੇਲੇ ਕੀ ਸੰਧਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥

gur chaelae kee sandhh milaaeae ||

The Guru and His disciple are joined together!

ਦੀਖਿਆ ਦਾਰੂ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਇ ॥

dheekhiaa dhaaroo bhojan khaae ||

One who eats this food, this medicine of the Teachings,

ਛਿਅ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੪॥੫॥

shhia dharasan kee sojhee paae ||4||5||

has the wisdom of the six Shaastras.

~SGGS Ji ang 877-878

Now it is true that different people are at different states of spiritual readiness. Some very non-religious people also happen to be very spiritual, even if they never have a formal initiation. And this is a result of their past-life karma, the blessings they have earned. Other people are of very low caliber, entirely sinful nature and disposition. But being possessed of honest self-appraisal, surrender themselves at the mercy and feet of a true Guru. And they become disciples trailing the stink clouds of their own vasanas, lol. I am in this category.

ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ ਰੰਗ ਸਿਉ ਹਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥

gur naam dhrirraaeae rang sio ho sathigur kai bal jaao ||

The Guru has lovingly implanted the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me;

I am a sacrifice to the True Guru.

~SGGS Ji ang 40

ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਇਆ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਦੀਆ ਮਨੁ ਠਾਢੇ ॥੧॥

gur pooraa paaeiaa vaddabhaagee har manthra dheeaa man thaadtae ||1||

I have found the Perfect Guru, through great goodfortune; He has given me the Mantra

of the Lord's Name, and my mind hasbecome quiet and tranquil.

~SGGS Ji ang 171

Remember, to become a disciple is a Divine Grace and a merit of karma. But we still carry the imprint of our karma in this sansaar. The disciple doesn't become instantly holy or realized simply to be accepted for diksha. He only takes refuge at the Gur charan. The sadhana/spiritual discipline practices over time are what will change you. Because they are your Divine link to the Guru, once you accept Him, Guru becomes fused to your very atma. And it is job of the Guru to reveal to you your True identity, which is God Himself. But the process of surrender, obedience to discipline and sacrifice are to bring about the death of the ego, the false self. this is why the teaching, to become dust of the feet of the holy is so great, because any opportunity to submit the ego in remembrance of the God is a death-blow to the ego.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਜਾਗੇ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਰਹਾਰੀ ॥

guramath jaagae dhuramath parehaaree ||

Awakening to the Guru's Teachings, evil-mindedness is taken away.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥

anadhin jaag rehae liv laaee ||

Remaining awake and aware night and day, lovingly focused on the Lord,

ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਗਤਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੪॥

jeevan mukath gath anthar paaee ||4||

one becomes Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive. He finds this state deep within himself.

~SGGS Ji ang 904

One of the spiritual traps is to become enamored of the religious identity of the false self and behave in egoistic, arrogant and hateful ways with the pretended holy self-image. That is why so much of Gurbani is exposing and correcting the fake saddhs and hypocritical yogis and arrogant brahmins. But it is only through surrender of the impurities of our own avidya and darkness that the Divine Light can shine through us and bring peace and healing to our souls and to this world. Humility and the obedience of surrender are the tools which open the channel of grace for Guru to operate and actually change us.

ਮਨੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਗੁਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਰਬ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥

man dheejai gur aapanae paaeeai sarab piaar ||

Surrendering our minds to our Guru, we find universal love.

~SGGS Ji ang 59

One thing that is confusing is that the initiation in Gurbani has been charan pahul, foot wash of Guru Sahib. But Guru Gobind Singh Ji changed it to Khande Ki Pahul, called as amrit. But this is not the same amrit-nectar which falls into the throat when the agni chakr is stimulated and opening the dasam duaara/sahasrara chakr. But initiation is absolutely critical if the actual spiritual amrit-nectar is ever to be chakked, because these chakrs will only open by Guru's grace, and occurs naturally/sehaja, without our efforts or doing. Initiation is giving the Guru PERMISSION to discipline you and pull weeds out of your garden and giving the PROMISE to cooperate with grace.

Whatever you feed, is what will survive. So don't feed the fake ego, or you will only harden your inner cruelties and become another brutal man in a suffering world trailing only anger and suffering, fear and condemnation. And that is not the Divine Light. But if that hard shell dies, something beautiful will shine in it's place. And that inner shining is the Kutashtha Caitanya.

We cannot say that the Atman has become the Jiva, justbecause we have raised some walls around with material substance. Thedifference is that in the case of the Jiva, the Buddhi istransparent, but mere transparency is not the sole conditioning factor, becausethere may not be any difference in certain cases even when there istransparency such as in a glass measure, which, after all, can contain only asmuch quantity of grain as wooden measure. What makes the essential differenceis not merely the limitation but the reduction of quality by quantity byreflection, and it is here that we notice a difference between the original andthe reflection. We call that a reflection which appears to be like original,but does not have really the characteristics of the original. Light on the Internal Self: Philosophy of the Panchadasi

The jeev-ego-atman has the appearance of a fake self, but in no way does it have the pure, high and noble qualities of the Divine Light which it is poorly reflecting no matter how hard it tries. It is only a shadow self, part of the dream consciousness, destined to fade and pass away. And that desperate self-clinging to what is transient is an aspect of suffering. You cannot have any concept of ecstacy when your underlying subconsciousness is in a permanent state of anxiety about death and loss and fears of subordination of the ego. And you will project outwards into the manifest world your deepest held beliefs and understandings, because that is what you act on. That is your hidden motivator that you have no control of. If you believe sincerely in fighting for your place in this world, welcome to the club. Just realize you're bringing all your greed and anger with you to achieve it. According to the Upanishads there are 3 gates which bring hell into this world: 1. I want, greed, therefore 2. I take, anger/force, and because the ugly blemish is disgraceful to my pride 3. I justify myself/delusion.

But when you can truly have the courage to surrender and willingness to become debased and the dust of the feet of all, then the fighting stops, the war against all the injustices you perceive as you against the world stops, and Divine grace can flow. And this Divine grace is bringing peace and joy and lightness of being because it free's you from the burden of carrying the ego identity around all the time. You can lay the weight of it down along with it's incessant suffering.

Surrender is peace. The Guru is who you give your surrender to. In the Guru's face is the face of the whole world. Because the One God is not different from His creation, but is all-pervading. When you became das, a servant of the Guru, you become a servant of humanity. This sansaar is the field for you to plant and harvest the Divine qualities. Here is your priceless opportunity to become a sevadar bringing heaven down to earth for suffering people.

ਹਉਮੈ ਬੰਧਨ ਬੰਧਿ ਭਵਾਵੈ ॥

houmai bandhhan bandhh bhavaavai ||

Egotism binds people in bondage, and causes them to wander around lost.

ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੮॥੧੩॥

naanak raam bhagath sukh paavai ||8||13||

O Nanak, peace is obtained through devotional worship of the Lord.

~SGGS Ji ang 227

Diksa (Sanskrit: dīkṣā, "preparation or consecration for a religious ceremony") is the giving of mantra or initiation by the guru in Indian religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. Diksa is given in a one-to-one ceremony, and typically includes the taking on of a serious spiritual discipline. The word is derived from the Sanskrit root dā ("to give") plus kṣi ("to destroy") or alternately from the verb root dīkṣ ("to consecrate").Diksa can be of various types, through the teacher's sight, touch,or word, with the purpose of purifying the disciple or student.Initiation by touch is called sparśa dīkṣā. The bestowing of divine grace through diksa is called śaktipāt.

Vishnu Yamala (tantra) says: "The process that bestows divyam jnanam (transcendental, spiritual knowledge) and destroys sin

(pāpa), the seed of sin and ignorance, is called diksha by thespiritual persons who have seen the Truth (desikais tattva-kovidaih)."

Different traditions and sects treat diksa in various ways. Tantra

mentions five types of initiation or diksa: initiation by a ritual or samaya-diksa; sparsa-diksa is an initiation by touch and is done without a ritual; vag-diksa is done by word or mantra; sambhavi-diksa is arising from perception of external appearance of the guru; mano-diksa is when initiation is performed in the mind. Diksha

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਗਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਉਧੂਤਾ ॥

guramukh jaag rehae aoudhhoothaa ||

As Gurmukh, I remain awake and aware, unattached.

ਸਦ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਤਤੁ ਪਰੋਤਾ ॥

sadh bairaagee thath parothaa ||

Forever detached, I am woven into the essence of reality.

ਜਗੁ ਸੂਤਾ ਮਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥

jag soothaa mar aavai jaae ||

The world is asleep; it dies, and comes and goes in reincarnation.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਨ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੬॥

bin gur sabadh n sojhee paae ||6||

Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it does not understand.

ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜੈ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ॥

anehadh sabadh vajai dhin raathee ||

The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates day and night.

ਅਵਿਗਤ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਤੀ ॥

avigath kee gath guramukh jaathee ||

The Gurmukh knows the state of the eternal, unchanging Lord God.

ਤਉ ਜਾਨੀ ਜਾ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥

tho jaanee jaa sabadh pashhaanee ||

When someone realizes the Shabad, then he truly knows.

ਏਕੋ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੀ ॥੭॥

eaeko rav rehiaa nirabaanee ||7||

The One Lord is permeating and pervading everywhere in Nirvaanaa.

~SGGS Ji ang 904

You can hardly be unloving and unkind, even if you are called upon and needed to be a protective force, because the Gurmukh is a true mystic who is having a love affair with the Divine Beloved who in turn is dancing in the hearts of every living being. So the Gurmukh becomes attuned to a deeper reality than the narrow, ego-based bondage of the body-cage and the world-toys of dominance of triviality and empty trifles clutched at through cruelty. Spiritual practice when united by grace to a true Guru should give us the one blessing we all should learn well, and that is the art of dying to the world and coming alive to Divine Reality, which is Sat * Chit * Ananda. Truth, Mercy, Joy unending.

[Matheen]

.......Without this, you cannot be considered a chela/shishya/disciple/sikh.

That's the reality of it. Many Sikhs don't like to hear this - even some who consider themselves 'sanatan', but it's just the way it is.

Good post bhenji, something we agree on, lol!

[Ghostface Killah]

fo shizzile