Meaning Of ਪ੍ਰਲਯ And ਸੰਘਾਰ ?

[dalsingh101]

Could I get some sangat help in nailing definitions of the following words please? I'm trying to grasp them in the context of the Hindu mythological characterisation of Shiv for something I am translating (will post it soon).

ਸੰਘਾਰ

Laal Singh posted a definition equating to 'killer' for the above.

I got the following from an online dictionary:

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary

v. (from Sk. Samhāra) destroy

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਸੰ. ਸੰਹਾਰ. ਸੰਹਾਰਣ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਨਾਸ਼. ਤਬਾਹੀ. "ਛੁਟਹਿ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਨਿਮਖ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ". (ਸਾਰ ਮਃ ੫)। (2) ਵਧ. ਕਤਲ.¹ "ਹੋਆ ਅਸੁਰਸੰਘਾਰੁ". (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੫) "ਅਸੁਰ ਸੰਘਾਰਣ ਰਾਮ ਹਮਾਰਾ". (ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ ਮਃ ੧) "ਤਸਕਰ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ". (ਰਾਮ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੧)। (3) ਪ੍ਰਲੈ। (4) ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਇਕੱਠਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ। (5) ਸਿੰਧੀ. ਸੰਘਾਰੁ. ਸ੍ਵਦੇਸੀ ਪੁਰਖ। (6) ਬਹਾਦੁਰ। (7) ਪਿਆਰਾ. ਪ੍ਰਿਯ. [¹ਜਦ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਅਥਵਾ ਸੰਘਾਰਣ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੂਜੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਕਰਤਾ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਰਖਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜੈਸੇ-ਅਸੁਰ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਅਤੇ ਅਸੁਰ ਸੰਘਾਰਣ.

So Laal Singh ji's definition stands. In context of my study, we can say that ਸੰਘਾਰ refers to the destructive power of Shiv.

But what about ਪ੍ਰਲਯ?

Earlier veer Laal Singh described it as destructive power. Mahan Kosh says the following:

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

{ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਲੀਨ ਹੋਣਾ. ਲੈ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਣਾ। (2) ਪੁਰਾਣਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਪੁਲਯ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਹੈ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦਾ ਲੀਨ ਹੋਣਾ. ਵਿਸਨੁਪੁਰਾਣ ਦੇ ਅੰਸ਼ ੧. ਅਃ ੭. ਵਿੱਚ ਲੇਖ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਨਿਤ੍ਯ ਮਰਨ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਤ੍ਯਪ੍ਰਲਯ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਦੇ ਸੌਣ ਪੁਰ ਨੈਮਿੱਤਿਕਪ੍ਰਲਯ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਦੇ ਮਰਨ ਪੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਾਕ੍ਰਿਤਕ ਪ੍ਰਲਯ, ਗ੍ਯਾਨ ਦ੍ਵਾਰਾ ਆਤਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਲੀਨ ਹੋਣ ਤੋਂ ਆਤ੍ਯੰਤਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਲਯ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ.¹ ਬਾਈਬਲ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਹੁਣ ਕਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਲਯ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਵੇਗੀ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਇੰਦ੍ਰਧਨੁਖ। (3) ਕਾਵ੍ਯ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਇੱਕ ਸਾਤ੍ਵਿਕ ਭਾਵ, ਅਰਥਾਤ ਕਿਸੇ ਵਸਤੂ ਵਿੱਚ ਤਦਰੂਪ ਹੋਣ ਤੋਂ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਦਾ ਅਭਾਵ ਹੋਕੇ ਮੂਰਛਾਦਸ਼ਾ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਣਾ. [¹ਕੂਰਮ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਦੇ ੪੨ ਵੇਂ ਅਧ੍ਯਾਯ ਵਿੱਚ ਭੀ ਚਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਲਯ ਲਿਖੀ ਹੈ-

The first interpretation seems to be: 1) To be well absorbed, merged. The second seems to be 2) In the Puranas the meaning of pulya is to be absorbed in the world? I am going by the dictionary definition of ਲੀਨ here.

So whilst sanghaar seems to be clearly and unambiguously referring to the power of destruction the meaning of parlay stills seems unclear to me. Going by MK definition are we talking about Shiv's characteristics of destruction and 'merging'?

If you can help shine some light on the matter, it would be much appreciated.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

The meaning of the words vary depending on the level of meaning you wish to impute to them. Sanghar can have a variety of meanings depending on the level of interpretation. To say sanghar means to destroy is a one-dimensional interpretation. Sanghar as a attribute of Shiv is something very different from the sanghar attribute of lets say a sword. The word refers to an action but the quality of the action is different when applied in certain contexts.

The understanding of the essence of the word is a complex procedure, that has to be interlinked with the way in which the world is perceived at this moment, in order that the essence is not abstracted from reality. For pralaya which could be translated as 'going forth in absorbtion' this action signified by the word has to be situated within an individuals perception so it has the ability to act on his presence otherwise it is just a useless excercise of mental masturbation.

Also if sanghar is a destructive aspect of Shiv it has to be questioned as who is Shiv? What relation does he have with our world where does he live how does he interact with indivdual beings and numerous other questions. If these questions are not addressed then the essence of the word is lost and its power is lost. Words used to contain power, all words are in effect mantra's, but only when used in a special way

[dalsingh101]

MJ

Let's not do anything then, incase it is just a waste of time or 'mental masturbation' as you so eloquently put it.

Fact is in this existence, most of us confined to conceptualising through words. We can add sound (or naad) and other human senses to that also. Although I agree with your general point, which I think concerns the futility of involving solely intellectual, empirical or semantic studies in spiritual development, these things aren't as useless as you may think. Ideas and understandings are born in the brain first, then we may or may not act on them.

So instead of all the above can you not give me straight forward definitions of the words I queried? Yes, even with all of the limitations associated with trying to define the undefinable through words.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

Sorry for the rudeness, sanghar is from sam+hara. Hara is from the sanskrit root meaning to take away remove or steal. Sam is a prefix inidicating a sort of levelling or equalising aspect. So it could refer to an agent that takes away everything completely. Or more accurately takes away a certain aspect totally, like for example life. It could be said the samhara aspect of Shiv is the archetype of every taking away of something in this world. So when life is taken away or sin is taken away it is the archetype of this aspect of Shiv functioning. The archetype is a totality whereas the act here is a fraction of a totality, but still a totality in itslef.

Pra means to go forth and laya i think is absorbtion although im not sure.

[dalsingh101]

Thank you for that brother.

[dalsingh101]

Any one else have have any offers for

ਪ੍ਰਲਯ

???

[laalsingh]

ਲਯ also means dhunn.

e.g. ਮੈਂ ਸੰਗੀਤ ਦੀ ਲੈ ਵਿੱਚ ਮਸਤ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ। I don't know what you would call it in English.

Still 'being absorbed' or ਲੀਨ is best answer.

About the relationship between ਸੰਹਾਰ and ਪ੍ਰਲਯ, ਪ੍ਰਲਯ is nothing but ਸੰਹਾਰ on larger scale.

[dalsingh101]

I'm wondering if 'retract' is a suitable translation for ਪ੍ਰਲਯ?

So we are talking about the powers to destroy and draw things back into oneself?

Any feedback?

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

Retract does not feel to be right. A Pralaya is more like a wave of destruction. Like a tidal wave absorbs and destroys all in its path. Rather than a retraction into something, a pralaya is a movement outwards that causes what it moves over to be reduced to its primal elements.

[dalsingh101]

I had interpreted this....

(2) ਪੁਰਾਣਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਪੁਲਯ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਹੈ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦਾ ਲੀਨ ਹੋਣਾ.

...to mean:

2) In the Puranas the meaning of pulya is to be absorbed in the world?

I now think it is more accurate to say:

"Within the Puranas pulya is explained as the absorption of the universe."

Edited July 26, 2010 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

This is the definition of ਲਯ from Mahan Kosh:

(1) ਜਾਣਾ, ਮਿਲਣਾ। (2) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਲੀਨ ਹੋਣਾ. ਮਿਲ ਜਾਣਾ। (3) ਸਾਰੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੇ ਲੀਨ ਹੋਣ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਪ੍ਰਲਯ। (4) ਵਿਨਾਸ਼। (5) ਸੰਗੀਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਤੇਲਧਾਰਾ ਵਾਂਙ ਤਾਰ ਗੀਤ ਦੀ ਅਖੰਡਤਾ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਲੈ। (6) ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ. ਕਰਤਾਰ। (7) ਯਗਮਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਧਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਸਾਧਨਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋਏ ਵਿਸਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਚੇਤਾ ਮਿਟਜਾਣਾ, "ਲਯ" ਹੈ.

So the definitions seem to imply being lost, to disappear (1), to meet and mingle (2), the action of all of the world being absorbed (3) destruction (4)

Edited July 26, 2010 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

You know I was watching a documentary on science and the way they were describing 'black holes' as things that swallow time, space and matter sounded remarkably like some of the definitions we touched on.

Kali was described by some Indologist as that which absorbs time in itself (hence the name). I can't help but wonder if Hinduism has some deep cosmologist type information embedded in some of its narratives, or if we have subsequently projected these on them, when the original authors had no such intention?

Edited August 29, 2010 by dalsingh101