Interpretation Of Bachittar Natak

[chatanga1]

Did Narsingh take birth and grow up someplace before coming to Prahlad Bhagat's rescue? No.

there is a difference, ji, Narsingh is recognised as an avtar of Vishnu, whereas Guru Nanak Dev Ji, is told to be the son of Mehta Kalu and Mata Tripta. No where in any text, veechar are Narsingh alleged to have parents.

What about the sons of the Guru's ? where they born the same way as Guru Ji? Even today Guru Nanak's Vansh exists. Are these descendants of Guru Ji born the same way?

Edited August 14, 2010 by chatanga1

[DTF]

Brothers,

I have very little gyan of Guruji’s Agaadh Bodh Gurbani. I have stated that which Ihave heard in katha from Mahapurkhs like Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji, Sant Jagjit Singh Ji, Gyani Thakur Singh Ji. These same views are shared by many more well known Sant Mahaprukhs of the past and present.

I will try to find the exact katha, but it will be difficult since I’ve never noted down where I’ve heard what.

For starters please listen to Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji’s veechar on shabad from Ang 310. It’s in their larivaar katha, cd 4, Ang 310, skip to 4:14 http://gurmatveechar.com/katha.php

This isn’t the source I was speaking of earlier, but it does show what words Santji use to do veechar of the Pangti. Just take note of that.

From the translation below it seems to disapprove what I’m saying. But listen to SantJi’s wording in the katha.

ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਕੁਲੁ ਧਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸੁ ਜਨਨੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਣਿਆ ਮਾਇ ॥

Blessed, blessed is the father; blessed, blessed is the family; blessed, blessed is the mother, who gave birth to the Guru..

Mithar, the Pangti you posted does use the word janam at the top, but also note the word “parkash” is used to describe Guruji’s advent into maat-lok.

The same is true throughout Gurbani where the word janam is used relating to Bhagats, and Guru Sahibaan. There seems to be a need for deeper understanding of this word’s usage.

There is a Gurbani Pangti that comes to my mind:

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਨ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ ਆਏ ॥

Those generous, humble beings are above both birth and death.

If they are above birth and death, how do they come into the world to help it?

[DTF]

there is a difference, ji, Narsingh is recognised as an avtar of Vishnu, whereas Guru Nanak Dev Ji, is told to be the son of Mehta Kalu and Mata Tripta. No where in any text, veechar are Narsingh alleged to have parents.

What about the sons of the Guru's ? where they born the same way as Guru Ji? Even today Guru Nanak's Vansh exists. Are these descendants of Guru Ji born the same way?

Brother,

As far as I know, this applies to only Guruji, Jeeevan-Mukht Brahmgyanis who come to help the world, and other avtars.

[Mithar]

Mithar, the Pangti you posted does use the word janam at the top, but also note the word “parkash” is used to describe Guruji’s advent into maat-lok.

The same is true throughout Gurbani where the word janam is used relating to Bhagats, and Guru Sahibaan. There seems to be a need for deeper understanding of this word’s usage.

There is a Gurbani Pangti that comes to my mind:

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਨ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ ਆਏ ॥

Those generous, humble beings are above both birth and death.

If they are above birth and death, how do they come into the world to help it?

Prakash here is referring to Guru Jee was Pragat in the Garab of his Mata which happened when She was in Tribaini. Then when Mata Jee arrived at Patna, the Janam of Guru Jee happened. The Tukh is: ਤਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਪਟਨਾ ਸਹਰ ਬਿਖੈ ਭਵ ਲਯੋ ॥

So Guru Jee is saying ਉਥੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਬੈਣੀ ਵਿਖੇ ਹੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਮਾਤ ਗਰਬ ਵਿਚ ਆਏ ਅਤੇ ਪਟਨਾ ਸ਼ਹਰ ਵਿਚ ਪੁੱਜ ਕੇ ਸਾਡਾ ਜਨਮ ਹੋਇਆ|

ਤਹੀ means the city of Tribaini.

I respect Mahpursh, but we need to realize that other than Guru Jee and Vaheguru everyone is infallible, and the tukh ਭੁਲਣ ਅੰਦਰ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਅਭੁਲ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਤਾਰ means exactly that.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Mithar

[DTF]

Prakash here is referring to Guru Jee was Pragat in the Garab of his Mata which happened when She was in Tribaini. Then when Mata Jee arrived at Patna, the Janam of Guru Jee happened. The Tukh is: ਤਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਪਟਨਾ ਸਹਰ ਬਿਖੈ ਭਵ ਲਯੋ ॥

So Guru Jee is saying ਉਥੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਬੈਣੀ ਵਿਖੇ ਹੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਮਾਤ ਗਰਬ ਵਿਚ ਆਏ ਅਤੇ ਪਟਨਾ ਸ਼ਹਰ ਵਿਚ ਪੁੱਜ ਕੇ ਸਾਡਾ ਜਨਮ ਹੋਇਆ|

ਤਹੀ means the city of Tribaini.

I respect Mahpursh, but we need to realize that other than Guru Jee and Vaheguru everyone is infallible, and the tukh ਭੁਲਣ ਅੰਦਰ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਅਭੁਲ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਤਾਰ means exactly that.

It's actually not saying that at all. You're reading too much into it to say they entered the womb. I agree all the fallible, but you have to take note when so many Mahapurshs believe the same, perhaps they know something we don't?

What are your views on the last Pangti I posted.

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਨ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ ਆਏ ॥

Those generous, humble beings are above both birth and death.

If they are above birth and death, how do they come into the world to help it?

[Mithar]

It's actually not saying that at all. You're reading too much into it to say they entered the womb. I agree all the fallible, but you have to take note when so many Mahapurshs believe the same, perhaps they know something we don't?

What are your views on the last Pangti I posted.

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਨ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ ਆਏ ॥

Those generous, humble beings are above both birth and death.

If they are above birth and death, how do they come into the world to help it?

Brother, I highly respect Mahpursh. I bow to them out of respect whenever I see them, but even Gurbani says only Guru Jee and Vaheguru are infallible, all others are fallible. When Guru Jee is saying one thing we need to take his word for it above all others. He has very clearly said that he was in the Garab of his Mata when she was in Tribaini, and his Janam happened in Patna, we cannot do kintu-prantu on his bachans. If Guru Jee did not say these Bachans then I would not be so adamant, but since he has written something that is as clear as day we cannot try to twist it’s meaning to fit our personal views. If we are going to do this then what is the different between us and Baba Ram Rai who changed the word of Gurbani in order to change it’s meaning?

Prakash is the term he uses in the first tukh for when Guru Jee mentions that his mother was pregnant in Tribaini, Guru Jee never mentioned anything like his blessed Mata’s stomach (Vaheguru forgive me) being filled with Vayu. I feel guilty even typing this, but you actually believe in this blasphemy. Brother please change your views on this, I beg you... we should not even think of this improper and offensive theory. I know that you mean well, but brother just think for a second what you are trying to say here.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Mithar

[chatanga1]

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਨ ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੀ ਆਏ ॥

Those generous, humble beings are above both birth and death.

If they are above birth and death, how do they come into the world to help it?

Yet Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib was shaheed, and his body actually dead from having his head cut off.