HSD1 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Seeing as many sikhs have a terrible grasp of world history of the last 500 years, they should watch this documentary. Hopefully it will kickstart a revision of their bizarre interpretation of our own history. It's on channel 4+1 now, and will be on 4od shortly. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/civilization-is-the-west-history/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 And for all of our colonial cousins who do not have the honour of living in Britannia, lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFrYzanwB9o 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Watched it. Thought it was interesting. Well worth a watch if you are contemplating it. But you do know it is essentially Anglocentric propaganda in the face of actual fear of the eastward slide, don't you? I noticed how he quickly glossed over the fact that it was his own people pumping the Chinese with opium with his smarmy comment about coffee houses. Maybe some people can gloss over the murder, displacement, enslavement and subjugation of people by representing it as the natural result of 'competition'? I certainly am not one of those types and I'm no angel either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 But you do know it is essentially Anglocentric propaganda in the face of actual fear of the eastward slide, don't you? I noticed how he quickly glossed over the fact that it was his own people pumping the Chinese with opium with his smarmy comment about coffee houses. Maybe some people can gloss over the murder, displacement, enslavement and subjugation of people by representing it as the natural result of 'competition'? I certainly am not one of those types and I'm no angel either. Missed the point completely. The life of an average chinese worker grafting in their industrialization is no picnic. The truth is this historian explains the rise of the west, not the effects of it. He also explains the rise of china, not the effects of it. Maybe you're just used to whites saying they got their empires through natural superiority rather than things that anyone can use. Anyway the documentaries and book (yes there is a book too) will help tie in with what chinese historians are saying, leading to a revisionist view far removed than the one that the whites teach in their schools or one our own lot are trying to figure out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) The life of an average chinese worker grafting in their industrialization is no picnic. As you are the guy who was so strongly pushing for heavier industrialisation in Panjab, given your above statement, could it be that this hypothetical industrialisation might even lead to a similar problem in a theoretical HSD run Panjab? or one our own lot are trying to figure out. There is no way around it. We have to figure out our own narrative, sure we can use elements of others, but it still has to be one that is tailored to our purposes in the end. No need to get arsey about our own lot not have gotten there yet. Edited March 6, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) As you are the guy who was so strongly pushing for heavier industrialisation in Panjab, given your above statement, could it be that this hypothetical industrialisation might even lead to a similar problem in a theoretical HSD run Panjab? Well I would put up massive pictures and statues of myself to make people feel so happy at working under my leadership. Most of the factory workers would be jatts cos they is proper evil and deserve to be dirty and work in bad conditions innit. Seriously, the reason chinese workers have it so shit is that their government is trying to achieve industrialization at lightning speed. There is the attitude in china that a weak china becomes the west's victim. When China gets on top, dont you think whitey will regret not bombing them to shit sooner? Chinese people seem to understand whitey well. That's why they are pushing themselves so hard. I'm not saying that some people wont like industrialization in Punjab. Any nation that has undergone industrialization didnt like it at the time, but once they share the benefits of sovereignty it becomes worth it. As much as the chinese worker might not like his/her job, many hundreds of millions of chinese are better off and secure now. They wouldnt have been if they hadnt industrialised. There is nothing wrong with resolving rural problems with industrial ones when the industrial ones melt away as the nation progresses. There is no way around it. We have to figure out our own narrative, sure we can use elements of others, but it still has to be one that is tailored to our purposes in the end. No need to get arsey about our own lot not have gotten there yet. I'm not being arsey about us not having done it, more that if we do do it, it wont be as good as it should be. If your planning on writing it, get a building, get some sikhs who know their stuff, knock your heads together and get going. Edited March 6, 2011 by HSD 2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Well I would put up massive pictures and statues of myself to make people feel so happy at working under my leadership. Most of the factory workers would be jatts cos they is proper evil and deserve to be dirty and work in bad conditions innit. Just keep them isolated on a farm. They seem to love it? Or so they keep going on... There is the attitude in china that a weak china becomes the west's victim. A very accurate and wise attitude to hold in my opinion. I'm not saying that some people wont like industrialization in Punjab. Any nation that has undergone industrialization didnt like it at the time, but once they share the benefits of sovereignty it becomes worth it. As much as the chinese worker might not like his/her job, many hundreds of millions of chinese are better off and secure now. They wouldnt have been if they hadnt industrialised. There is nothing wrong with resolving rural problems with industrial ones when the industrial ones melt away as the nation progresses. I hear you - but one big f**king flaw. Panjab is TINY!!! Plus that whole caste thing IS going to get played out when it comes to labour division. It's a potential time bomb. I'm not being arsey about us not having done it, more that if we do do it, it wont be as good as it should be. If your planning on writing it, get a building, get some sikhs who know their stuff, knock your heads together and get going. I thought this was going to be your thing? In any case, I'm wondering if enough of our people actually care enough about this today and are even 'accessible' for new ideas for this to have any serious sort of impact today? Like I said, get to know the common Panjabi man better, it will be enlightening, I promise you. Edited March 6, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I hear you - but one big f**king flaw. Panjab is TINY!!! Plus that whole caste thing IS going to get played out when it comes to labour division. It's a potential time bomb. If we want to do it whilst staying in hindustan then it will have to be small industries, thereby reducing the scale of the problems that china has from its industrialization. Anyway, if non-jatts end up working in the factories they will benefit in the long run. The division of land amongst sons is unsustainable, some sikh families I know over here sell large parts of their land to farmers who need the land as they dont have enough for the entire bigass family to live off. Which makes sense as punjabi land is worth ridiculous amounts of money and people here can use that money to put their kids in a good school and move to a neighbourhood without pakis or chavs. But the thing is that if non-jatts work in factories they will benefit as any Punjabi Industrialist worth his/her salt knows that a happy workforce is a productive workforce, and a productive workforce makes more money. In china, many factory owners have built decent flats/houses, hospitals, sports grounds, schools and even colleges for their workers and their families. Some worker's families enjoy a lifestyle a million times better than the people in rural china. Factories make more money than farms, and if some of that extra money is spent on improving the lot of the workers, whatever caste that may be, that is a result in my opinion. Factories also foster that feeling of togetherness (well some do) which can help communities build themselves up. I thought this was going to be your thing? In any case, I'm wondering if enough of our people actually care enough about this today and are even 'accessible' for new ideas for this to have any serious sort of impact today? Like I said, get to know the common Panjabi man better, it will be enlightening, I promise you. I thought it was my idea that you were going to do? So what are you up to then? I dont know what I'm doing half the time. I think there is a significant minority of sikhs who look at the world around them and dont like what they are told about it. They end up believing in conspiracy theories or random stuff like that. 20 million people has enough variation for us to have to do multiple things to help people. Everyone is different. As for the common punjabi, between the two of us we have probably seen, met and befriended less than 0.1% of the sikhs in the world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I dont know what I'm doing half the time. I thought you was jumping on that Japanese thing and going to learn Panjabi? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I thought you was jumping on that Japanese thing and going to learn Panjabi? That's the plan,lol. For the time being anyway if I can stay interested and focussed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 If not, what then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 If not, what then? Be a wasteman just like the rest of my generation, lol. Seriously, I think it's time I pulled my finger out and did something. If I dont then I will only have myself to blame. If it all does go to shit, then I'll just do volunteer work abroad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Another documentary by the same historian which is equally worth watching: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-war-of-the-world/episode-guide/series-1 http://www.youtube.com/show/thewaroftheworld 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j78oIqOF7ms&list=SL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYyGkOvJsCg&list=SL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvyj6bmPBmU&list=SL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnGT14mjsAk&list=SL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5L5vhwx2WM&list=SL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr9AtME7_u8&list=SL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Second episode: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/civilization-is-the-west-history/4od#3171444 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gamiNnRu18M&list=SL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.