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Sargun Upashna Vs. Idol Worship


namdhari555

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Okay so can someone explain this dasam bani shabad, Guru says don't see any difference between him and god yet he says anyone who calls him god shall go to hell. Guru granth sahib tells us guru and god are one and the same. So is the guru god and if so why do we recognise them as the same but can't call them the same?

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥
गुरु परमेसरु एको जाणु ॥
Gur parmesar eko jāṇ.
Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One.
SGGS 864


ਚੌਪਈ ॥

Chaupaee ॥

CHAUPI

ਇਹ ਕਾਰਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੋਹਿ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਬ ਮੈ ਜਗਤ ਜਨਮ ਧਰਿ ਆਯੋ ॥

Eiha Kaarni Parabha Mohi Patthaayo ॥ Taba Mai Jagata Janama Dhari Aayo ॥

For this reason the Lord sent me and I was born in this world.

ਜਿਮ ਤਿਨ ਕਹੀ ਤਿਨੈ ਤਿਮ ਕਹਿਹੋਂ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕਿਸੂ ਤੇ ਬੈਰ ਨ ਗਹਿਹੋਂ ॥੩੧॥

Jima Tina Kahee Tinai Tima Kahihoaaʼn ॥ Aaura Kisoo Te Baira Na Gahihoaaʼn ॥31॥

Whatever the Lord said, I am repeating the same unto you, I do not bear enmity with anyone.31.

ਜੋ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿਹੈਂ ॥

Jo Hama Ko Paramesara Aucharihaian ॥ Te Sabha Naraka Kuanda Mahi Parihaian ॥

Whosoever shall call me the Lord, shall fall into hell.

ਮੋ ਕੌ ਦਾਸ ਤਵਨ ਕਾ ਜਾਨੋ ॥ ਯਾ ਮੈ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਰੰਚ ਪਛਾਨੋ ॥੩੨॥

Mo Kou Daas Tvana Kaa Jaano ॥ Yaa Mai Bheda Na Raancha Pachhaano ॥32॥

Consider me as His servant and do not think of any difference between me and the Lord.32.

ਮੈ ਹੋ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੋ ਦਾਸਾ ॥ ਦੇਖਨ ਆਯੋ ਜਗਤ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥

Mai Ho Param Purakha Ko Daasa ॥ Dekhana Aayo Jagata Tamaasa ॥

I am the servant of the Supreme Purusha and hath come to see the Sport of the world.

ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾ ਸੋ ਕਹਿਹੋਂ ॥ ਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੋਕ ਤੇ ਮੋਨ ਨ ਰਹਿਹੋਂ ॥੩੩॥

Jo Parabha Jagat(i) Kahaa So Kahihoaaʼn ॥ Marita Loka Te Mona Na Rahihoaaʼn ॥33॥

Whatever the Lord of the world said, I say the same unto you, I cannot remain silent in this abode of death.33.

Sri Dasam Granth 136-137 http://searchgurbani.com/dasam_granth/page/137

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Raag Bilaaval: Bani Dhan Guru Sree Ram Das Maharaj:

ਪੂਰਬ ਜਨਮਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਆਏ ਗੁਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਮਈਆ

Poorab Janam Bhagath Kar Aaeae Gur Har Har Har Har Bhagath Jameeaa

पूरब जनमि भगति करि आए गुरि हरि हरि हरि हरि भगति जमईआ

Because of devotional worship in my past incarnations, I have been born into this life. The Guru has inspired me to worship the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har.

ਭਗਤਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਈਆ

Bhagath Bhagath Karathae Har Paaeiaa Jaa Har Har Har Har Naam Sameeaa

भगति भगति करते हरि पाइआ जा हरि हरि हरि हरि नामि समईआ

Worshipping, worshipping Him with devotion, I found the Lord, and then I merged into the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har.

In this poem of Sachay Patshah Sree Guru Ram Das, He is telling us that, by devotional worship in many births, one thus gets this unvaluable human form, which is the gate for liberation from the endless cycle of births and deaths.

Then, He tells us that if anything is pleasing to Wahiguru, it is only worshipping Him with love and devotion through the sanctified practice of Nam Simran, because it is only by this jugtee, that we can find Him, and merge in Him, that also within ourselves, without the need of any outer elements.

Gurmukhs do not waste our time by putting us the bondages of rituals, pilgrimages, fastings, etc ......these activities are all related to the body and the world, it has nothing to do with ruhaniyat.

The main concern of any Gurmukh of any time and place, is to first ignite in us the true love for Wahiguru, and then to reunite us forever with Akal Purukh. This is the real job of a true Gurmukh.

They will never engage us in politics, comitees, land, dharam, mazab wars, which is a waste of time, and are heavy chains around our necks, which shall bring us back into creation, because it implies actions, karmas. While Gurmat makes us actionless, karmaless... as our dealings are not with the world neither its belongings of any type; but with the Creator Wahiguru Himself alone...this is the main difference between sadhs, gurmukhs, sant janas and the rest of worldly leaders.

No gurmukh will ever ask us to do anything except Nam Simran, as means of love and devotion towards Wahiguru.

As all other ways somehow involve our interaction with matter made out of of the 5 elements, means, tools or instruments made of water, earth, air... which are perishable, which are "kaacha", impure,so naturally the results are going to be imperfect, and thus the goal Wahiguru, is missed.

On the other side, we only need a pure heart, and enormous love, to achieve our goal, Wahiguru, who is inside us, is available all the 24 hours freely to all, whether male, female, child, adult, handicapped, sick or healthy, rich or poor...He is available to all His souls in equal measure, at all places and times, through concentrated attention alone.

This is the greatness, and superiority, of Gurmat, above all other paths, in terms of security, simplicity, relaibility, guarantee, and above all, it is no blind fath theories, because it is first hand experimented path, by our Guru Sahibans themselves.

Awar kaaj, tere kitte na kam, mil Sadh Sangat, bhaj kewal Nam.

Edited by harsharan000
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Don't worry they banned me aswell, about 3 times now. I can't be bothered to return to them they don't even have any interesting topics anymore. They won't tolerate any meat debates, any muslim comments that they themselves don't make- it's dominated by akj's and taksali. You can get away with any anti Hindu remark on it any day of the week. They don't tolerate anyone who questions AKJ or taksal. They won't tolerate anyone who doesn't agree with bhindranwale or questions the creation of khalistan. It seems the only posts they are interested is the ones where they can give dawah and convert coconut sikhs from. The banned Sher and Ekomkar pretty much everyone from here apart from N3O has been banned. I heard one of the admin's name on SS is Vicky Singh Randhawa AKJ from California. You could like everyone else just make another account go back on the forum and be more careful or like sher make 2 accounts be more controversial on one and use the other as a backup.

Who were you in sikh sangat?
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