Show Me God?

[Sat1176]

This post has been reposted in this section of the forum because I think it will get lost..

This chapter has got me totally re-evaluating what is it I'm searching for? Even though I thought I understood that god was within and outside did I really understand the message. Probably not!!!!

You teach Others but not me?

You Teach Others but Deprive Me One day I told my master, “You have been cheating me.” When we are inadequate ourselves but our ego is strong, we tend to blame others.

He asked, “What’s the matter?” I said, “You think I am still a child, and you are withholding things from me.”

“Tell me, what am I withholding?”

“You are not showing me God. Perhaps you cannot, but can only teach me about God. If that is the limit of your powers, then you should be honest.”

He answered, “I will show you God tomorrow morning.”

I asked, “Really?”

He replied, “Most certainly . . . are you prepared?”

I used to meditate regularly before going to bed, but that night I could not. I was sure that in the morning I would get to see God, so what was the point of meditating? I was so restless and excited I did not sleep the whole night. Early in the morning I went to my master. I did not even bathe. I thought, “When my master is showing me God, why take time for a bath?” I just slapped my face, patted down my hair, and presented myself to him.

He said, “Take your seat.” I thought, “Now he is going to show me God.” I was seldom humble, but I became extraordinarily humble that morning. I bowed before him many times. He looked at me and said, “What has happened to you? What is this funny business? Why are you abnormally emotional?”

I said, “Did you forget? You promised that you would show me God.”

He said, “Okay, let me know what type of God you are prepared to see.”

I said, “Sir, are there many types?”

He asked, “What is your concept and definition of God? I’ll show you God exactly according to your conviction and definition. Everyone wants to see God without having any firm conviction of God in their minds and hearts. If you are searching and are not firm and sure regarding the object of your search, what will you find? If I tell you that whatsoever you see is God, you are not going to be satisfied. If I say God is within you, still you won’t be satisfied. Suppose I show you God and you say, ‘No, that’s not God.’ What am I going to do then? So you tell me the way you think about God and I will produce that God for you.”

I told him, “Wait a moment. Let me think.”

He said, “God is not within the range of your thinking. Go back to your meditation seat and when you are ready, let me know. Come to see me anytime you want after you have decided what type of God you want to see. I don’t lie—I’ll show you God. That is my duty, to show you God.”

I tried my best to imagine what God would be like, but my imagination could not go beyond the human form. My mind ranged over the kingdom of plants, then the kingdom of animals, then human beings. So I imagined a wise and handsome man, who was very strong and powerful. And I thought, “God must look like this.” Then I realized that I was making a foolish demand. What could I experience when I didn’t have clarity of mind?

Finally I went to my master and said, “Sir, show me that God who can free us of miseries, and who can give us happiness.”

He said, “That is a state of equilibrium and tranquility which you must cultivate for yourself.”

Without having clarity of mind, a mere desire to see God is just like groping in the dark. I found out that the human mind has its boundaries and can visualize only according to its limited resources. No human being can possibly explain what God is, or conceive of God mentally. One can say God is truth, a fountain of love, absolute Reality, or the One Who manifested this universe. But these are all abstract ideas which do not satisfy the desire to see God. Then what is there to be seen? Those who believe God is a being can imagine and see a vision, but in reality God cannot be seen through human eyes. God can only be realized by realizing the real self and then the self of all.

So when a student has the attitude “I want to see God; my teacher is not showing me God; my teacher is not giving me what I want,” he must finally realize that it is not a matter of the teacher’s duty. Find out if you are making inappropriate demands, and instead of demanding from the teacher, transform yourself from within. God is within you, and that which is within you is subject to self-realization. No one can show God to anyone else. One has to independently realize his real self; thereby he realizes the self of all, which is called God. In the state of ignorance, the student thinks that God is a particular being, and he wants to see that being exactly as he sees something in the external world. It never happens. But when he realizes that God is truth and practices truth in action and speech, then his ignorance about the nature of God disappears and self-realization dawns.

Tuks for SGGS:

Ang 893
In the Word of the Guru`s Bani is the wealth of the unstruck sound current.
anhad banee poonjee.

The Saints hold the key to it in their hands.
santan hath raakhee koonjee.

They sit there, in the cave of deep Samaadhi;

sunn samaaDh gufaa tah aasan.

the unique, perfect Lord God dwells there.

kayval barahm pooran tah baasan.

God holds conversations with His devotees.

bhagat sang parabh gosat karat.

There is no pleasure or pain, no birth or death there.
tah harakh na sog na janam na marat.

One whom the Lord Himself blesses with His Mercy,
kar kirpaa jis aap divaa-i-aa.

obtains the Lord`s wealth in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.
saadhsang tin har Dhan paa-i-aa.

Now how do the following pangti's explain the above viewpoint in particular the line in blue? How can God have a conversation with his devotees if you are in deed him above the level of the mind? Who or what is having a conversation with who if god does not exist as a separate entity? Does these tuks still indicate a level of duality. Are you infact having a conversation with yourself or the state of many!

Maybe the only way to obtain an answer this question is to do simran and find out for ourselves.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Sat1176

[Sat1176]

Direct Experience Alone Is the Means

One day my master told me to sit down. He asked, “Are you a learned boy?” I could say anything to him, however outrageous. It was the only place where I could be completely frank. I was never sorry, no matter what I told him. He used to enjoy my foolishness. I replied, “Of course I am learned.”

He asked, “What have you learned and who taught you? Explain it to me! Our mother is our first teacher, then our father, and then our brothers and sisters. Later we learn from the children with whom we play, from teachers at school, and from the writers of books. No matter what you have learned, you have not learned a single thing independently of others. So far all that you have learned is a contribution from others. And from whom have they learned? They have also learned from others. Yet as a result of all this you call yourself learned. I pity you because you have not learned anything independently. You have apparently concluded that there is no such thing as independent learning in the world. Your ideas are the ideas of others.”

I said, “Wait a minute, let me think.” It was a shocking realization that whatever I had learned was nothing of my own. If you put yourself in my place you may well have the same feeling. The knowledge on which you depend is not at all your knowledge. That is why it is not satisfying, no matter how much of it you possess. Even if you have mastered an entire library, it will never satisfy.

“Then how can I be enlightened?” I asked.

He said, “By experimenting with this knowledge that you have acquired from outside. Find out for yourself, with the help of your direct experience. Finally you will come to a conclusive and fruitful stage of knowledge. All knowing is in vain if it is not direct. Indirect knowledge is of course informative, but not fulfilling. All wise people throughout history have gone through great pains in order to know truth directly. They were not satisfied by the mere opinions of others. They were not frightened off from this quest by the defenders of orthodoxy and dogma, who persecuted and sometimes even executed them because their conclusions were different.”

Since that time I have tried to follow his advice. I have found that direct experience is the final test of the validity of knowledge. When you have known truth directly, you have the best kind of confirmation. Most of you go to your friends and give your viewpoint. You are seeking confirmation in their opinions. Whatever you think, you want others to confirm it by agreeing with you, to say, “Yes, what you think is right.” But somebody else’s opinion is no test of truth. When you know truth directly you do not need to ask your neighbors or your teacher. You don’t have to seek confirmation in books. Spiritual truth does not need an external witness. As long as you doubt, it means you have yet to know. Tread the path of direct experience until you attain that state where everything is clear, until all of your doubts are resolved. Direct experience alone has access to the source of real knowledge.

[Sat1176]

Real Knowledge Removes Suffering

Self-reliance is important. It comes when you start receiving experiences directly from within. No doubt you need a teacher, you need a guide—I am not telling you that you should not learn things from other people, or that you need not study books. But I have met people who did not even know the alphabet, and yet whenever we had difficulty in understanding some profound truth or scripture, they alone could give us a solution.

Once I was teaching the Brahma Sutras. It is one of the most abstruse books in Vedantic literature. Aphorisms which I myself did not really understand I explained to my students, and they seemed satisfied. But I was not. So in the evening I would go to a swami who had not actually studied scriptures. He couldn’t even sign his name—yet his knowledge was unmatched. He said, “You will never understand these terse aphorisms if you do not have direct experience.” Then he told me this story to help me understand the difference between direct and indirect knowledge. A master had a student who had never seen a cow nor tasted milk. But he knew that milk was nutritious. So he wanted to find a cow, milk it, and drink the milk. He went to his master and asked him, “Do you
know anything about cows?”

The master answered, “Of course.” The student requested, “Please describe a cow to me.” So the master described a cow: “A cow has four legs. It is a tame, docile animal, not found in the forest but in villages. Its milk is white and is very good for your health.” He described the type of tail and ears it has, everything.

After this description the student went in search of a cow. On the way he came across a statue of a cow. He looked and thought, “This is surely what my master described to me.” By chance that day some people who lived nearby were whitewashing their house and there was a bucket of whitewash near the statue. The student saw it and concluded, “This must be that milk which they say is so good for you to drink.” He gulped down some of the whitewash, became terribly ill, and had to be taken to a hospital.

After he recovered he went back to his master and angrily charged, “You are no teacher!” His master asked, “What’s the matter?” The student replied, “Your description of a cow was not at all accurate.”

“What happened?” He explained, and the master asked, “Did you milk the cow yourself?” “No.” “That is why you suffered.”

The cause of suffering among intellectuals today is not because they don’t really know. They know a little. But what they know is not their own knowledge, and that is why they suffer. A little or partial knowledge is always dangerous, like partial truths. A partial truth is not truth at all. So is the case with partial knowledge. The wise directly perceive truth.

The sage who did not even know the alphabet of any language would always remove my doubt. Systematic study under a self-realized and competent teacher helps in purifying the ego; otherwise scriptural knowledge makes one egotistical. He who is called an intellectual man today only collects facts from various books and scriptures. Does he really know what he is doing? Feeding intellect with such a knowledge is like eating a food with no food-value. One who constantly eats such a food remains sick and also makes others sick. We meet many teachers and they all teach well, but a student can assimilate only that which is unalloyed and comes directly from self-experienced teachers.

Story of my life! But I still can't help not wanting to put this book down. LOL

Edited January 16, 2015 by Sat1176

[Sat1176]

I thought both gyan and dhyaan were important! Lets just see what Guru ji has to say on the subject.

parabh kai simran gi-aan Dhi-aan tat buDh.
In the remembrance of God are knowledge, meditation and the essence of wisdom.

naanak saadhoo sang jaagay gi-aan rang.
O Nanak, in the Saadhu Sangat, the Company of the Holy, the love of divine knowledge is awakened;

bal budh gi-aan dhi-aan apnaa aap naam japaa-i-aa.
He blesses them with power, wisdom, knowledge and meditation; He Himself inspires them to chant His Name.

vismaad naad vismaad vayd.
Wonderful is the sound current of the Naad, wonderful is the knowledge of the Vedas.

mat tat gi-aanaN kali-aan nidhaanaN har naam man ramnan.
The intellect receives the treasure, the knowledge of reality and supreme bliss, by repeating the Lord's Name in the mind.

bidi-aa na para-o baad nahee jaan-o.
I do not read books of knowledge, and I do not understand the debates.

har gun kathat sunat ba-uraano. ||1||
I have gone insane, chanting and hearing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.

Dhun meh dhi-aan, dhi-aan meh jaani-aa, gurmukh akath kahaanee.
The meditation is in the music, and knowledge is in meditation. Become Gurmukh, and speak the Unspoken Speech.

kaa-i-aa nagree ih man raajaa panch vaseh veechaaree.
The mind is the king of the city of the body; the five sources of knowledge dwell within it.

saglee jaan karahu ma-udeefaa.
Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere.

achint hamaarai anhat vaajai.
Spontaneously, the Unstruck Melody of the Sound-current resounds within me.
achint hamaarai gobind gaajai.
Spontaneously, the Lord of the Universe has revealed Himself to me.
achint hamaarai man patee-aanaa.
Spontaneously, my mind has been pleased and appeased.

nihchal Dhanee achint pachhaanaa.
I have spontaneously realized the Eternal, Unchanging Lord.

achinto upji-o sagal bibaykaa.
Spontaneously, all wisdom and knowledge has welled up within me.

gun naad dhun anand bayd.
The Glory of God is the Sound-current of the Naad, the Celestial Music of Bliss, and the Wisdom of the Vedas.
kathat sunat mun janaa mil sant mandlee. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Speaking and listening, the silent sages and humble beings join together, in the Realm of the Saints. ||1||Pause||
gi-aan dhi-aan maan daan man rasik rasan naam japat tah paap khandlee.
Spiritual wisdom, meditation, faith and charity are there; their minds savor the Taste of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. Chanting it, sins are destroyed.
jog jugat gi-aan bhugat surat sabad tat baytay jap tap akhandlee.
This is the technology of Yoga, spiritual wisdom, devotion, intuitive knowledge of the Shabad, certain knowledge of the Essence of Reality, chanting and unbroken intensive meditation.

gur parsaadee vidi-aa veechaarai parh parh paavai maan.
By Guru's Grace, contemplate spiritual knowledge; read it and study it, and you shall be honored.
aapaa maDhay aap pargaasi-aa paa-i-aa amrit naam.
Within the self, the self is revealed, when one is blessed with the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Sat1176

[das]

This is an excellent book by Swami Rama. Eye opener.

Please keep posting the gems from this book. Here is the list of books that are written by Swami Rama and some are translated in Punjabi by Sant Waryam Singh Ji. They both were friends:

Very few selected books by Swami Rama (do NOT confuse it with Swami Rama Tiratha)

• The Art of Joyful Living (Punjabi version: Anandmae Jewan by Sant Waryam Singh Ji)
• Himalayan Santan Sung Nivas (Punjabi version by Sant Waryam Singh Ji)
• Free from the bond of Karma (PUnjabi version by Sant Waryam Singh Ji)
• Bhagwat Gita
• Enlightenment Without God
• Let The Bud Of Life Bloom

Edited January 16, 2015 by das

[Sat1176]

Like i stated in the original thread, there is simply too much to copy and paste plus all the formatting that needs to be done. Every chapter/topic has spiritual knowledge.

Those who want to read it can find it here.

http://www.znakovi-vremena.net/en/Swami_Rama-Living_with_the_Himalayan_Masters.pdf

Let me know if there are pdf links to any of the others. (English versions please)

[Raaj.Karega.Khalsa]

'Living with the Himalayan Masters' has been one of the best books I have ever read.

Reading this book makes you question your own relation to your Guru, when you compare it with the relation between Dr. Swami Ram ji and their Guru.

Have always recommended this book.

[Koi]

Very nice

[Truthseeker]

ALL THE GREAT RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD HAVE come out of one Truth. If we follow religion without

practicing the Truth, it is like the blind leading the blind. Those who belong to God love all. Love is the

religion of the universe. A compassionate one transcends the boundaries of religion and realizes the

undivided, absolute Reality.

- Living with the Himalayan Masters

[Sat1176]

Interesting perspective:

You also once said “people get uncomfortable” when they are told that, according to the tantric tradition, “life is not suffering and life is not maya.” After all, Lord Krishna, in verse 8.15 of the Bhagavad Gita, declares that the world is full of suffering: “Having come to me, the great souls are no more subject to rebirth, which is transitory and the abode of pain; for they have reached the highest perfection.” Also, in verse 14.3 Lord Krishna validates maya when he states: “My maya is the womb, identical with me, who am the great Brahman; I impregnate that; from there the birth of all beings occurs, O Descendant of Bharata.”

Here you have to remember that tantrics neither praise nor condemn scriptures such as the Bhagavad Gita. They do not mind if their experiences do not match the dictums of such scriptures. Tantrics seek liberation in the world, not from the world.

I remember a conversation I had long ago with Karapatriji, a great scholar of Vedanta and a swami of the Shankaracharya order. In his public discourses this great man elaborated on the idea that the world is full of suffering, that objects of the world are short-lived, that the world is maya (illusion), and that the goal of life is to extricate oneself from the world of maya, which is full of pain and misery. But in his private life Karapatriji was a practitioner of Sri Vidya, the most sublime and advanced discipline of tantra. According to Sri Vidya, the Divine Mother is the absolute reality, an embodiment of unsurpassed beauty and joy. The world is her manifestation. The relationship between the Divine Mother and the world is that of the ocean and the waves that arise from it and subside in it. So I asked Karapatriji, “Aren’t you practicing hypocrisy by teaching to the public something totally different from what you practice in your daily life?”

He replied, “For ages religions have been telling us life is punishment. It is the result of one’s karma. God lives in heaven, they tell us—somewhere far away. Life here is full of misery, and this misery comes to an end only when we go to heaven. A strong belief in these theories has forced us to form a self-denigrating image of ourselves and of the world: we respect neither ourselves nor the world. Convinced that these religious ideas are valid, we try to escape from the world and from ourselves. We are afraid of life and try to avoid the pain caused by this fear. We attempt to run away from life—but the truth is that life is an integral part of us. How can we run away from ourselves? There is no way out. So we are confused. To reverse this cycle, people must first be taught how to overcome confusion. And that is why in public I place so much emphasis on describing the dynamics of maya—confusion.

But in my private life, I find no maya. To me the whole world is the manifestation of the Divine. I am the child of Divinity. I adore the Divine as my mother. In relation to her, I am not even a renunciate—I am simply her child. She is within me and outside me. I rejoice in her presence. I guide those who aspire to gain this experience on the path of Sri Vidya."