paapiman Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 3, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 After Sant Baba Bhagwaan Singh jee, there are three factions. Bhindrawale Sants below to one of the factions. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 First of all, I am seeing all these threads regarding lineages, either indirect/direct lineages of order to sri guru gobind singh ji etc which is totally fine, but just wanted to caution readers, whilst these lineages/orders are quite important in its relative context,but they actually have no bearing whatsoever on one direct spiritual relationship with Vahiguru. So we shouldn't use lineages/orders as spiritual yard stick to judge others etc. But unfortunately, thats been going around sikh youths circles these days where order/lineages are being used as spiritual yard stick to judge someone or fit in etc, its just another egoistic conditioned mind trap. But with that being said, in old text there is hardly mention of damdami taksal being samparda so they don't have direct lineage(without influence of nirmale and misal-nihang) its all mixture- its known as gyani samparda, they are off shot of nirmale/misal-nihang samparda together: Here is more information on this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) First of all, I am seeing all these threads regarding lineages, either indirect/direct lineages of order to sri guru gobind singh ji etc which is totally fine, but just wanted to caution readers, whilst these lineages/orders are quite important in its relative context,but they actually have no bearing whatsoever on one direct spiritual relationship with Vahiguru. So we shouldn't use lineages/orders as spiritual yard stick to judge others etc. But unfortunately, thats been going around sikh youths circles these days where order/lineages are being used as spiritual yard stick to judge someone or fit in etc, its just another egoistic conditioned mind trap. Bro, you are right. But, it is important to know the background of a scholar before we start listening to him. Schooling definitely makes a difference. You cannot compare a Harvard university grad to an ordinary college grad. It is possible that a person who is not associated with the orthodox sects of Sikhism, to be spiritually higher than a taksali (for example), but when it comes to scholarly discussion, the taksali should be supported or listened to. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 3, 2015 by paapiman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Taksali are all men for men... Even if they can prove some sort of direct lineage, it doesn't mean that the message they have now is the original message, or that they can't carry misogyny throughout that lineage or that sexism is ok. I'm not going to listen to someone who tells me I should shut and up and obey my husband since I am inferior to him. Or that I am somehow spiritually lacking or dirty or unclean to do seva. I think we need to get away from sects with their own agendas period and just be Sikhs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 But with that being said, in old text there is hardly mention of damdami taksal being samparda so they don't have direct lineage(without influence of nirmale and misal-nihang) its all mixture- its known as gyani samparda, they are off shot of nirmale/misal-nihang samparda together: Here is more information on this: To add to that, Srimaan 108 Shaheed Baba Mani Singh jee Maharaaj was also associated with the Sevapanthi sect. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 As early as 1979, one eminent Sikh scholar, Prof.Trilochan Singh (1919-1993) who was involved in UNESCO publication ‘Sacred writings of the Sikhs’, saw through the lies of Baba Kartar Singh Samparda Chowk Mehta: ‘To carry the distortion further, the Bhindrawaley Taksal now claims to be the spiritual descendants of ‘Damdami Taksal’ (Spiritual lineage of interpreters of Adi Guru Granth) of Baba Dip Singh, although all the followers of Baba Dip Singh and Baba Gurbaksh Singh died to the last man for the sanctity of the Golden Temple. They left no successor. Sant Sundar Singh founder of Bhindrawaley Taksal was student of Sant Gulab Singh, a Nirmala Saint and actually belonged to the Amritsali Taksal. I had the opportunity to meet Sant Inder Singh, brother of Sant Sundar Singh many times and got first-hand material about the Saints life from Sant Gurbachan Singh. Sant Inder Singh died at the age of 104.’ ‘The Turban And Sword Of Sikhs, Prof.Trilochan Singh, Pa.390 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Some of the so called past 'chiefs' of your DDT are either Nihangs, Sevapanthis, Nirmalas or Udasis even but not Taksali. Anyone can lie, tommorow Missionaries will also claim decent from Guru Gobind Singhs personal attendant who learnt English from Guru Sahibs european physician and thus they came to be called missionaries lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Where is mention of DDT in Suraj Parkash (1843) which all your sect members quote on gurdwara stages? From an ex Taksali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Taksali are all men for men... Even if they can prove some sort of direct lineage, it doesn't mean that the message they have now is the original message, or that they can't carry misogyny throughout that lineage or that sexism is ok. I'm not going to listen to someone who tells me I should shut and up and obey my husband since I am inferior to him. Or that I am somehow spiritually lacking or dirty or unclean to do seva. I think we need to get away from sects with their own agendas period and just be Sikhs. Ok, first off, don't group all Taksalis to be one and the same. That would be like saying all Nihangs are government's Fauj, or All AKJ are Shikaari, all Nanaksaris are sex offenders, all Nirmale are this And that group is that etc. it's Pathetic and insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Sant sundar Singh was actually the student of sant bishan Singh murareywale who was a jathedar of taksal at the time... I know this cause my grandfather and great grandfather we really close to sant sundar Singh and sant gurbachan Singh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) As early as 1979, one eminent Sikh scholar, Prof.Trilochan Singh (1919-1993) who was involved in UNESCO publication ‘Sacred writings of the Sikhs’, saw through the lies of Baba Kartar Singh Samparda Chowk Mehta: ‘To carry the distortion further, the Bhindrawaley Taksal now claims to be the spiritual descendants of ‘Damdami Taksal’ (Spiritual lineage of interpreters of Adi Guru Granth) of Baba Dip Singh, although all the followers of Baba Dip Singh and Baba Gurbaksh Singh died to the last man for the sanctity of the Golden Temple. They left no successor. Sant Sundar Singh founder of Bhindrawaley Taksal was student of Sant Gulab Singh, a Nirmala Saint and actually belonged to the Amritsali Taksal. I had the opportunity to meet Sant Inder Singh, brother of Sant Sundar Singh many times and got first-hand material about the Saints life from Sant Gurbachan Singh. Sant Inder Singh died at the age of 104.’ ‘The Turban And Sword Of Sikhs, Prof.Trilochan Singh, Pa.390 You are kind of right. DDT traces back its roots to Sriman 108 Shaheed Baba Mani Singh jee Maharaaj. The parnalli (for some reason, I am not able to post it online), which is mentioned in Amir Bandara teeka (written by Sant Kirpal Singh jee Sato kee gali wale) does not show any lineage (from today) back to Srimaan 108 Shaheed Baba Deep Singh jee Maharaaj or Srimaan Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh jee Maharaaj. After Srimaan 108 Sant Baba Bhagwaan Singh jee Maharaaj, the taksaal had three factions. Sato kee Galli (Amritsari) is one of the factions, while Bhindrawale sants belong to another faction. Srimaan 108 Sant Baba Sundar Singh jee Maharaaj might have been a student of Sant Gulab Singh jee, but he was also a student of Srimaan 108 Sant Baba Bishan Singh jee Maharaaj Murarewale. It is not uncommon for a Gursikh to have more than one teacher. For example, Srimaan Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Maharaaj had two Gurdevs. His vidya gurdev was Sant Baba Wadhawa Singh jee Maharaaj, while he received gurparsaad from Srimaan Sant Baba Mahaharnam Singh jee Maharaaj Bhuchowale. In conclusion, whether it is Bhindra taksaal, or Mehta chowk taksaal or Sato kee Galli (Amritsari) taksaal, all trace back their origin to tenth master. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 5, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Where is mention of DDT and its lineage in Mahan Kosh? The 10 previous mukhis should be in there, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Where is mention of DDT and its lineage in Mahan Kosh? The 10 previous mukhis should be in there, no? If it is missing in there, that does not mean, DDT does not go back to the tenth master. Even, Nanaksar traces its roots back to the tenth master. Most likely, even that won't be mentioned in Mahan Kosh. Also, I think, it is Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha who wrote Mahan kosh. He also did not believe in Sri Raagmala Sahib as Gurbani. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Quote lol your proof of Taksal being started by Guru is a video. Great. What about Taksalis fav granth called Suraj Prakash? Where does it mention DDT or its jathedars? Where was DDT when mahants were capturing Gurdwaray and raping? I agree that Sant Jarnail Singh did great Kurbani and you can boast of it as a taksali but prior to that (keeping in mind that Baba Deep Singh etc were not Taksalis) there was no kurbani by Sunder Singh, Kartar Singh or Gurbachan Singh. They did good things sure but also did a lot of harm to Sikhi by adding mythology to our religion. You still have not answered in which vision Gurbachan saw Muhammad stealing Vedas? OR did he just say it cos he read it in Bansawlinama without exploring and analyzing the text? Guru Sahib made Khalsa. Not Taksal or whatever Unquote This is a very weak argument. Saints are sent by God with specific purposes. Picking up a sword and fighting dushts is not the only criteria for a sant. Even, Baba Ghanaiya jee did not fight during Mughal times(way worse than British), what will you call him? He actually did seva of dushts, instead of killing them!!!! There are more example of saints, who did not fight during Mughal times. It might be mythology to you as our brain power is very very tiny compared to that of these Gurmukh scholars. I will try to find out the truth about the sakhi related to Hazrat Muhammad Saab. Even, you did not answer my question, mentioned in the post below. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 6, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 DDT takes monopoly on shaheeds and kurbanis always boasting about Baba Deep Singh and Sant Jarnail Sing but forget that in between they had nothing. This they use to criticize missionaries who have no kurbani, but then I point out to your predecessors who have no kurbani either. Anyways I dont want a pea sized brain like your so called brahmgyanis who read and assume its right because its a old book and then LIE in sangat by telling fairy tales. Your Gurbachan says in his book Guru Har rai married 8 sisters at the age of 11 or so. Wow brahmgyani, no historical basis pure gapp And have you ever heard a more gappi person than Thakur Singh Patiala wale? Or the Brahmgyanis who claimed sant ji was alive and well (hiding somewhere)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Anyways I dont want a pea sized brain like your so called brahmgyanis who read and assume its right because its a old book and then LIE in sangat by telling fairy tales. Your Gurbachan says in his book Guru Har rai married 8 sisters at the age of 11 or so. Wow brahmgyani, no historical basis pure gapp Pea sized brain? Omg, watch your words bro. They will become a big hindrance in your spiritual growth. Add to that, the punishments by Jamdhoots. Are you not afraid of God? So what, if Guru sahib married 8 sisters. Maharaaj can marry as many women as he wants, as he is God, not like us. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 6, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 DDT takes monopoly on shaheeds and kurbanis always boasting about Baba Deep Singh and Sant Jarnail Sing but forget that in between they had nothing. This they use to criticize missionaries who have no kurbani, but then I point out to your predecessors who have no kurbani either. I don't think, a spiritually awakened Taksaali will say that Taksaal has monopoly on Shaheedis. If someone does, then you cannot blame/badmouth DDT for it; blame the individual. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Please use respectful words towards saint/scholars in our panth. We can discuss/debate their scholarly work but not attack against them on personal/spiritual level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha is the best historian we had. He actually researched and wrote it down only after researching things properly, unlike most of the Babas who just parrot what they read in old Granths (hereby I refer to Baba Gurbachan Singh and other Babas). Ofcourse Mahan Kosh can be wrong, and so can Bhai Kahan Singh, because after all he was just a human being like Baba Gurbachan Singh. But the thing is that a school created by the Guru is very important and thus needs to find some kind of mention in olden books, but the fact that even a fairly recent encyclopedia which has such in depth information on Sikhi fails to mention the present day DDT or its lineage shows that something is clearly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Correct me if i am wrong but piara singh padam list sikh orders/sampardava- nirmale, udasi, sevapanthi, nihangs and gyani samparda...Damdami taksal there is mentioned as gyani samparda. Damdami taksal old name was gyani samparda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Correct me if i am wrong but piara singh padam list sikh orders/sampardava- nirmale, udasi, sevapanthi, nihangs and gyani samparda...Damdami taksal there is mentioned as gyani samparda. Damdami taksal old name was gyani samparda. That makes sense. In Amir bandara teeka, the heading states, sampradai gyanian dee parnalli. It does not state DDT dee parnalli. Anyways, Taksaal means a school and Damdami refers to the fact that it was started from Damdama Sahib (Guru kee Kanshi). In conclusion, it has been proven in this topic that DDT traces its roots, back to the tenth master. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 9, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 That makes sense. In Amir bandara teeka, the heading states, sampradai gyanian dee parnalli. It does not state DDT dee parnalli. Anyways, Taksaal means a school and Damdami refers to the fact that it was started from Damdama Sahib (Guru kee Kanshi). In conclusion, it has been proven in this topic that DDT traces its roots, back to the tenth master. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Even if they can somehow through another name... it doesn't mean they are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha is the best historian we had. He actually researched and wrote it down only after researching things properly, unlike most of the Babas who just parrot what they read in old Granths (hereby I refer to Baba Gurbachan Singh and other Babas). Correct me if I am wrong - Bhai Saab Bhai Gurdaas jee, one of the greatest Sikh scholar, did not mention the name of Bhai Bala jee Maharaaj in his varan. Does that mean Bhai saab jee did not exist? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Bhai Bala either did not exist or was a very minor character as proved without doubt by Prof Sahib Singh in 'aad bir barey'. Besides that it was only Bhai Mardana accompanying Guru on Udasi travels and not Bala and Mardana as some Babas claim. Thirdly, lets even assume for a second that Gyan Samparda was old name of DDT, which book mentions their lineage as claimed by your Brahmgyianis? Pyara Padam was an author who lived in the second part of the 20th century, how are you using him as a reference point? He lived during time of Gurbachan, Kartar Singh and thus was influenced by their lies. No one is denying that Gurbani santheaa schools existed but whether DDT existed in some form with the exact lineage as mentioned? I doubt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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