paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 In Prachin Panth Parkash (1843) Mani Singh is referred to as head pujari not jathedar. Don't get into semantics. Jathedar can mean a leader or a head. Therefore, Baba Mani Singh jee was a Jathedar too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Well then don't quote books you haven't read. Tell me the exact name of the book and page number which mentions 8 wives of Guru Har Rai, a thing which doesn't make sense even if written historically because there are also books claiming Guru Tegh bahadur committed suicide. Again a poor comparison - comparing marriage to suicide. Even, sixth and tenth masters had mutiple wives. What, does not make sense? Edited May 16, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Secondly, you lied on here that Dal jathedars would be Jathedar of Akal Takht but I am asking you to prove from pre 1850 literature where the post of JATHEDAR of Akal Takth is mentioned? Quote Akal Bunga/Takht – The highest seat of Sikh temporal authority declared so by the 6th Guru, Akali Guru Hargobind Sahib in 1609. Traditionally only the Budha Dal Jathedar (leader) was also leader of Akal Takht. Unquote [1] [1] - http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/glossary.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 When marriage is said to be ONE soul in TWO bodies, then why would Gurus have more than one wife? And... isn't having multiple wives degrading to the wives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) When marriage is said to be ONE soul in TWO bodies, then why would Gurus have more than one wife? And... isn't having multiple wives degrading to the wives? There is no doubt that three of the masters had multiple wives. God can marry as many women as he wants. Sri Krishan Maharaaj also had many wives. How is it degrading to women? Edited May 16, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 There is no doubt that three of the masters had multiple wives. God can marry as many women as he wants. Sri Krishan Maharaaj also had many wives. How is it degrading to women? Maybe because it turns women into a mere commodity to serve men. You can easily see it in Mormon polygmy families. Now I'll ask you this... do you agree the wives could have also had multiple husbands?? Fair is fair right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Maybe because it turns women into a mere commodity to serve men. Satguru jee had multiple wives. Sikhs cannot. Satguru jee gave liberation to his wives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastarsewak Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) ; Edited May 17, 2015 by shastarsewak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 No I'm questioning him having 8 wives at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastarsewak Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) ; Edited May 17, 2015 by shastarsewak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastarsewak Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) ; Edited May 17, 2015 by shastarsewak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Further back... Sikhkhoj was questioning Whether or not Guru Ji married 8 sisters or if it's a tall tale made up by DDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Which Gurbilas of Mani Singh are you talking about? Only a few granths are attributed to Mani Singh and these are Bhagat Ratnavli, Gyan Ratnavli and Sharda Puran Granth. Which Granth do you mention and on which page does it talk about Guru Sahibs 8 marriages? Even, Sri Gur Sooraj Prakash granth mentions 8 marriages of Satguru jee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Satkirin, Guru ji did have more than a wife but those were special cases such as not having a child with the previous wife and she herself suggested/agreed for a second marriage. Or when one wife died. But claiming that Guru Har Rai married 8 sisters at the age of 11 is plain absurd. - Dharmu nung is a heretic. He is on same level as missionaries. - Your only source for Buddha Dal jathedar being Jathedar of akal takht is Sarbloh.info and another website Jatha Shaheedan. Both have no credibility, quote from old sources. - So now you admit your so called Brahmgyani Gurbachan didn't have connection to God but merely re-iterated what he read in old books (i.e. he read a book called gurbilas and then goes on to say quote it to prove guru Har Rai had 8 wives without academically researching that book?). - You still haven't named me the book you are quoting, give me the exact title + page number. - Gurbachan lied about guru Nanaks feet bleeding when a Sikh recited bani, he lied about Muhammad stealing Quran from a Hindu saadhu and also about guru har rai having 8 wives. Edited May 16, 2015 by SikhKhoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Even, Sri Gur Sooraj Prakash granth mentions 8 marriages of Satguru jee. Let me blast you. Suraj Parkash also raises doubt on the authenticity of Raag Mala. Don't be a hypocrite and pick and choose what you believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 First of all, quote me which page of Suraj Parkash in which Raas says Guru Har Rai had 8 wives? Secondly, this is what your source says about Raagmala, but then your Gurbachan said Raagmala is bani? Who is right? ਰਾਗਮਾਲ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਹਿ, ਹੈ ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਲਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਬੈਨ॥ Ragmala is not the writing of the Guru, the Guru is till Mundavni (ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪ, ਰਾਸਿ 3, ਅੰਸਿ 49) (Gur Partap, Raas 3, Ans 49) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Satkiran just stop... Something's you say are really way off. Guru hargobind sahib Ji had I think 3 or 4 wives. Guru gobind Singh Ji had 3 wives. It wouldn't shock me if the 7th guru had 8 wives. Also just because you read some parts of dasam Granth and say how could that be attributed to guru cause it doesn't follow your thinking doesn't make it wrong.. Sri charitarphkiyan is a bani about the character of humans and in there it is written about both men and women so get your facts straight.. Most of the Khalsa Rehit is from dasam Granth.. In dasam Granth you get the ardaas, it tells the kakaars, it tells who the guru is etc... Without dasam Granth the panth would be completely different... The whole dasam Granth is guru gobind Singh Ji's writings... Sri sarbloh Granth is guru Ji's writing as well. Sri hazur sahib, Sri Patna sahib, nihang dals all have Sri dasam Granth with Guru Granth Sahib. Up until 1945 Sri dasam Granth and Sri Guru Granth Sahib were on the same level parkash in akaal takht.. So satkiran just speak what you know about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I never said Dasam Granth should be dismissed.. just that its not same level as SGGSJ. It's not 'Guru' Dasam Granth... Yes I know it's about character or both males and females... just some think it's purpose was to shoot down females and make them look lowly. It's not... I never said disregard Dasam Granth... at all. I did mention there are some who think that certain parts of it are not attributed to Guru Ji, and that it can't be proven either way since it was compiled after he left his physical body. I didn't say I agree with them... I only agree with it not being same level as SGGSJ. Because Guru Ji declared SGGSJ as Guru... not Dasam Granth. But that is the only reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 In puratan times the Sri dasam Granth sahib was on the same level and was given the same respect as guru. It has been only 70 years which people started giving it less respect. http://www.info-sikh.com/DGPic3.jpg This painting is when maharaja ranjit Singh was still around. Both Granth are on par with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastarsewak Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) ; Edited May 17, 2015 by shastarsewak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Let me blast you. Suraj Parkash also raises doubt on the authenticity of Raag Mala. Don't be a hypocrite and pick and choose what you believe. You did the same? Remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 - You still haven't named me the book you are quoting, give me the exact title + page number. Read the above posts carefully. I will try to find the page number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) First of all, quote me which page of Suraj Parkash in which Raas says Guru Har Rai had 8 wives? Secondly, this is what your source says about Raagmala, but then your Gurbachan said Raagmala is bani? Who is right? ਰਾਗਮਾਲ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਹਿ, ਹੈ ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਲਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਬੈਨ॥ Ragmala is not the writing of the Guru, the Guru is till Mundavni (ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪ, ਰਾਸਿ 3, ਅੰਸਿ 49) (Gur Partap, Raas 3, Ans 49) Does that Raagmala above refer to the Sri Raagmala Sahib in SGGSJ, or the Raagmal of poet Alam? Most Orthodox sects/sampradas believe in Sri Raagmala Sahib jee as Gurbani. Edited May 17, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Does that Raagmala above refer to the Sri Raagmala Sahib in SGGSJ, or the Raagmal of poet Alam? Most Orthodox sects/sampradas believe in Sri Raagmala Sahib jee as Gurbani.In te above it says that the raag mala in guru Ji is the one written by poet Alan even though the one written in guru Ji is actually really different than the poet Alan one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) What is the proof that those Granths on the paintings are Guru Granth and Dasam Granth? It could be two Guru Granth Sahib birs as is done now during some akhand paaths too. Edited May 17, 2015 by SikhKhoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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