Is the Budha Dal still an army?

[Dynamic_Banda]

Well I guess the khaliban and the taliban with their ak47's and their terror tactics will be the saviours of the gurpanth.. AKAAAAAL..

then we can make moves to destroy mandars and mosques similar to the destruction of budhist temples and statues by the talibans..

Common characteristics my friends.. as they say in punjabi Haan nu Haan Pyaara..

ANyhow the budhadal and the Tarna dal may not have nuclear war damallas or semi automatic rifles coming out of their spears. However the normal joe walking around in 1700 wasn't really tooled to the teeth either, it was the spirit of satguru in gurpanth roop which allowed the chireea to turn into baaj, gidar into sher, out numbered and out weaponed..

The style of khalsa has been simple in steal and kill em with their own weapons. In the misl period when singhs where living in jungles and deserts how many blacksmiths and armouries do u think they had in those jungles...

and face it it doesnt matter who the hell you are or whatever weapon you have without satgur parsad your going to die.

But then again I guess we singhs have special forces training in making big groups and surrounding others at gurdvaras and their place of worship in order to provoke fights and jump on out numbered enemies.. akaaaaal.. dhan dhan teri sikhi ..

But then again Daya comes before dharam, so I guess even if the budhadal fail to protect the sikhs the taksalis will have no problem bringing the enemies to the holiest of our shrines and getting opening the doors to them..

Satgurparsad.

[Baba Manochal]

LOL have you finished your babbling!?

Im sorry to say but it prob will be the 'khaliban' (nice word play!) who defend the panth.

Eg members of this group blow up Police prat Gobind Ram! Charges against him included Shaving off half the moustache and beard of an amritdhari singh, and making 2 amritdhari women drink his urine in a bowl, telling them that since they had drank the amrit of Gobind Singh, it was now their turn to drink the 'amrit' of gobind ram.

Yup the fanatics blew him up!! Was it the nihangs? Nope it was the fanatics with their ak-47's!!

Would they ... really? Please tell me any record of Singh blowing up mandirs or mosques??

Ok thanks for your viewpoint on history, You heard of the guru's yes?

Well correct me if im wrong, but didnt Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji ask his sikhs for the best horses and weapons that they could get hold off?

Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji create and develop weapons in Anandpur Sahib?

Do you really beieve that Guru Ji meant for his Akal Purkh Ki Fauj to exist on the scraps of the enemy?

Everything that Guru Ji did was the greatest!!! So if Guru Ji wanted to create a fauj, then im pretty confident that his fauj should be the most splendid in the world!!

Yes everybody does need Guru Ji's kirpa, but if Guru Ji didnt want an organised trained and deadly trained army then he would never have created one himself!

Today the budha dal does have an armoury, i have one of the swords that they make, fair enough they make swords, but would guru ji have taught his singhs to have carve wooden sticks with which to fight the enemy!! The enemy had swords and guns, so guru's singhs had swords and guns!!

I really dont understand why people refuse to see how relic our fauj has become! We need to think about why did guru ji create an army? Was it to sit around in the Punjab just chilling? Or to have a practical purpose of getting rid of injustice and helping the oppressed?

Can the nihang singh dals help any community, given their knowledge and experince and resources?!?

In our history we read of how hindu's came to the singhs and asked them to recover their daughters from the afghans and moughals, and how hundreds of singhs would rise out to help these unfortunates.

Today as i have mentioned before, thousands of Sikh women wonder about India their husbands killed, their honour shattered as they were raped. What have the nihang dals done to protect them or to get justice?

You can say what you like about the taksali's, but here i'll throw the ball back into your court.

IF the taksalis were wrong for whatever they did, why didnt the nihang dals stop them?!?!?!! This question was raised earlier in this discussion as well i think, if taksal was so wrong, why havent the nihang dals done something to sort them out? Are they afraid of the taksali singhs too?!?!?!?! lol

Ps awww little baby you gonna have a little cry too? I heard they did one of the guys a favour, apparently they fixed his nose, its meant to be of a normal size now lol, maybe that dude should be grateful!!

Anyway if anybody knows anything about the military make up of Guru Ji's original fauj please teel, and what kind of setup is currently there.

Thank you all!

[Guest]

i think the points raised by baba manohchal are very legitmate. I woud like an answers to them as well!!!!!

I also heard from narsingha that all the question shall be answered and the contributions by nihangs in 1984 struggle in nihang.com.

Any answer when that website is coming on air.

Also i think lets not be too naive and judge not all nihangs who got shaheediya in 84. I can name some of them- Avtar Singh Bramha, Kulwant Singh Nagokay.

Note to Dyanamic Banda: If you cant answer the questions raised by BM. Please stay outta the discussion. We dont want another mud slinging match. Also i would request baba manohchal to edit his humor from the post if he is lookin for any decent answers. Lets keep it clean guys!!

[Sher_Singh]

They claim to be 96 crore but they aren't even a few dozen prepared to give their all for the Panth like the Kharkoos did. Leave aside any hope that the Nihangs would help these Sikh women who were being tortured by indian govt these Nihangs were actually participating in the oppression of the Sikhs.

Lets not get emotional about terms such as 'Guru Kiyan Laadliyan Faujan'.. fact is Nihangs lost any claim to that title in 1984.

And before someone asks.. 'what have u done for the panth'... well I don't go around claiming to so and so crore fauj and wearing an oversized dumala that's useless in a fight situation.

[Dynamic_Banda]

84 had nothing to do with sikhi, other then sikhi was being used as the cover to a political power struggle.

If budhadal had also taken up arms in the akaal takhat then most of the blood shed would have been between the singhs withint the fotified complex just as there where constant fights and arguments between the babbars and the taksali's.. pulling out arms while sitting in rooms around the parkarma..

Face it no taksali would have accepted budhdal being there doing chatka and making shaheedi degh, most of the karkoo ammo would have been used too shoot down the nihangs. as it was being used during pre and post 84..

It is known that it was actually the nihang shawnees which were being used as a safe haven for karkoos and police alike. Baba Nihal singh the camelion was all for the 84 movement and no matter what you say he is always under budhadal..

Thank you for proving my point.. that Guru Hargobind told the singhs to go steal weapons hence the akaal sena was made up of many of the thieves and criminals who had been arrested by the goverment of the time.

Yes Guru Gobind Singh had a whole army tiar pr tiar.. and he hence created many forts.. FAR FAR FAR away from the harmandir sahib.. and away from the mass population. SO enemies would be drawn to the forts for battle and not into the homes and holy shrines of the same people he was trying to protect.

Also if the 84 movement was so great and powerful why didnt they fortify and defend mehta chowk after all it was their main centre for the taksalis..

Also it would be intresting to find out who gave the land where mehta is.. to the taksalis..

and if u want answers go to nihang.com

[Guest]

Dynamic Banda,

Did u know that sant jarnail singh bhindranwale did pratak darshan of satguroo gobind singh ji at hazoor sahib where he was blessed to start up "Dharam Yudh Morcha" which you claim it to be "Poltical Agenda".

As Nihang Niddar Singh views. He says "He has no doubt about sant ji spirtuality but using akal takht as fortress was wrong".

I dont get this. If Nihang Niddar Singh beleives that bhindranwale ji was a saint then he should also beleive in notion that sant jarnail singh ji did pratak darshan of guroo ji where he was blessed. Hence, his opnion on using akal takht doesnt hold any weight since sant ji was blessed himself by guroo ji. Thats what takshal beleives. And no one knows sant ji better than takshal, because after all he was mahapursh of takshal.

Anyways thats my 2 cents...

[Dynamic_Banda]

I'm not in any position to doubt or disagree with that statement maybe Sant Ji did get darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. However, I don't doubt the spirituality of someone like Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh either.. but he followed and adopted the views of a fool like Teja... and not excepting the raagmala.. Poloptics and Spirituality are not the same sword but two different ones which can be used seperatly or together.. yet they will always remain two seperate swords..

No one knows the Guru better then the sikhs, yet no sikh can agree on what the guru is.. taksal have a personal relationship with Sant JI. he's their idol their role model he's their gurdev.. and just as the naamdharis wait for the return of their guru from ocultation and in his place are representatives who are supposidly unfalliable.. so does the taksal.

I respect Sant Ji and love him in my own way, but I dont agree with everything he said or did, Just as I love the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and jesus and budha etc yet dont agree or follow everything they say..

And I feel the same way about Baba Santa Singh,

Remember Ravaan was a great sant too.. as was kans, Harnakash and Indar.. Valmiki the great Rishi was no infallable.. UNless you are saying that Sant Ji was god incarnate an equal to Akaal Purakh, equal too Guru Ji then he was fallable.. and my $2 and 2 cents is .. that fallability was shown during '84.. by putting faith into subegh singh and turning darbar sahib complex into hell.

[Sher_Singh]

Dynamic Banda

You don't know what you're talking about. The Nihangs had no need to go into Akal Takht. When the govt sent the troops in then why didn't this so-called 'army of the panth' not use their arms against the army?. Or is it that arms are just used for decoration and worship

You know your Santa Singh turned like Lal Singh and Tej Singh. Santji acted like a true Gursikh

[Baba Manochal]

Lol, hey mr banda why not try answering some of the questions if you actually want to get involved in this discussion?!?

ok lets see....

Firstly before anything else, please study this period of history and see the problem that the sikhs were facing. Then try telling us that it had nothing to do with sikhi!! eg, did narkdhari gurbachna papi while he was doing beadbi to guru granth sahib ji have anything to do with sikhi? Or was it politics? Was it the nihang singhs who killed him? Or the fanatics? Please give me an example of a single papi whom the budha dal killed or dealt with during this period.

To answer some of your points... your saying that the reason the nihangs didnt come to darbar sahib was because the taksali's would have shot them for doing chatka and making sukha??

Ok this means one of two things;

1) The nihangs are scared of the taksali singhs, if they were not afraid they would continue with their rehat wherever and whenever they wished. To say that their rehat is not continued or asserted in gurdwara's due to not wanting violence is rubbish. When the mahants took over the gurdwaras the singhs had to walk into the darbars and throw them out physically, we all know that Nanakana Sahib many singhs gave shaheedi to rid the place of mahants. So if the maryada is correct and the sgpc/mahants have stopped this traditional act, then why not kick them out?

It would appear that the taksal are the real nihangs, since your afraid of them.

2) That for the sake of panthic ekta, issues like this could not be put aside, that nihangs are so silly that rather than work together they would cause friction. Im sure that any differences between the babbars and taksal would have been to do with personal differences, not to do with ragmalla or keski!!

Also you say that MOST of the ammo would have been used to shoot nihangs .. as it was before and after 84...

Please could you clarify that statement? Are you saying that most of the people who ate the singhs bullets were nihangs?!!? IF that is the case, then the question of why didnt the nihangs deal with the 'fanatics' needs to be answered with even greater urgency!!

Baba Nihal Singh did fight for the panth, though you say he is under budha dal it must be remembered that budha dal is and was against his actions, so therefore he was acting outside of budha dal's favour. So there goes your feeble attempt to suggest that santa had anything positive to do with it.

Which shawnee's were used? Did the singhs use them because they wanted to and the nihangs were too afriad to say no, or did the nihangs welcome them with open arms as fighters for the panth and in fact join them in the struggle?

LOL no suprise that the police used the nihang shawnee's!! what did you expect?!! You didnt think santa would say no to the police or govt do you!?

Lol, im sure Guru Ji would have asked his sikhs to BRING weapons, if they stole them, then that was their business, i dont believe guru ji would have told them to go and steal them!!

and its intresting that the call the akal sena an army of criminals and theives, because isnt that exactually what your calling the kharkoo singhs now?? Arnt they seen as wrong by the govt? arrested and tortured for obtaing weapons?? Thank you for proving my point!

I think a misconception that you have is that this was some kind of Taksal Vs Govt war!!!!

Mr friend this was about sikhi and the panth not taksal!! Perhaps people percieve that this was all about taksal since they provided the inspiration for many people during this period, but not everyone who gave shaheedi was a taksali (trained in santia/katha etc), not was everyone from the babbars!! Average Joe singh got off his backside and did something and gave his life for his guru!! Many taksal as an organisation got more grief than anybody else, but they took it on their chests! How many times did the police invade mehta, rip the singhs dastars off, spit tobacco into their mouths etc etc . Taksal did great seva during these days so dont even go there sister!!!

Land? Who gave land to the guru's to build ramdas sarovar?! Whats who gave land to who got anything to do with this convo!?

Ok as far as i know iv never heard a taksali or any singh who has respect for taksal or sant ji, refer him him as GURUPITA MAHARAJH as YOU referred to santa singh in the discussion on tarna dal. Nor do they think of him as a guru who will come back in any sense! There is little that will offend them more than you suggesting that anybody other than Gurupita Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharajh is our gurupita!

Again and again and again, if shubegh singh was wrong, and sant jarnail singh was wrong why dint the budha dal throw them out?!!? what is the point of being an army if every time a fight is on the horizon you wet yourself! Forget fighting the police and army, if these guys disrespected Darbar sahib and the akal takhat sahib, then come on!! what more of a reason do you need to take action!?

Nihang.com?? More like www.waittillimakeanexcuse.com!!

And please again i ask, could you answer the questions on the structure of the budha dal in its military set up, what resoucres and skills they have in warfare,etc etc etc!

Ps neo, Avtar Singh Bhramha!!!! Whaa ji whaa, have you seen a picture of this Guru ka Nihang Singh sitting on his horse with an rpg launcher in his hand!! lol!! those eyes man! i think theyd be enough to disarm any opponent! was he from the bidhi chand nihang jatha?

[Beast]

Nihang.com?? More like www.waittillimakeanexcuse.com!!

erm......the link doesn't seem to work. I was really looking forward to seeing it too. :cry: :cry:

There's a lot of "lol's" in your post, I can just imagine you sitting there at your PC with tears coming down your eyes coz you're laughing so much. Warning to children: this is what sukha does to you. :mrgreen:

[Guest]

I'm closing this discussion for now and moderators will decide if they want to let this show run or they want to keep thoughtful discussions.

"Locked"