Why Do Sikh Women Wear Turbans ? (Debate Continued)

[sikh_fauge]

why are u so insecure about what our sisters do? why does it bother u so much? is it bs because people arent agreeing with ur viewpoint? u shouldnt be so determined to always proove people wrong paji..bs or not, i think they look beautiful..big deal..u can find urself a woman..im happy being with a third gender lady..and i guess i'll have to tell my parents that she is a lady when they meet her

[Guest Javanmard]

It's not about me proving people wrong : it's about facts! I know some dastarvalian and I have got nothing against them! It's just not necessary that's all!

[Mr §ingh]

I think that there is a misconception here about my statements about keski mostly due to people's complete ignorance of Indian civilisation and history.

It's ok for a girl to adopt keski as long as she is aware that she is adopting a 3rd gender identity (napumsak) as well

Jus cause U think so, or jus cause Indian traditioins says so doesn't suddenly make them 3rd gender, jus cause Guru jee MEANTIONS third gender :roll:

As for

'its not necessary that's all'

well, let me ask you - would you rather want you sister to go with 'nanga sir' or with keski, as it quite hard to drag ur chnni with u all day?=

bhull chukk maaf

GurFateh

[Guest]

I love the Dastar wearing Singhanis, look amazingly beautiful, more so than any other style of Chunni or these silly bollywood actresses.

[Mr §ingh]

I love the Dastar wearing Singhanis, look amazingly beautiful, more so than any other style of Chunni or these silly bollywood actresses.

:bravo: :yo:

[Guest Javanmard]

Saihajleen Kaur Khalsa wrote:

I love the Dastar wearing Singhanis, look amazingly beautiful, more so than any other style of Chunni or these silly bollywood actresses.

de gustibus non disputandum esse!!!

but then again

o tempora o mores!!! :roll:

[Guest]

Plzzzz translate or Il have to invent my own language.

[Mr §ingh]

Doesn't seem to be a very nice msg as he's obviosuly trying to censor something -s somethign he doens't wantus to know

u know what gives an extra fllavour to it? - :roll: -

[Guest Javanmard]

It's Latin! I suppose you all went or still go to secondary school where Latin is normally taught!

[Guest]

i didnt yaar.. when i first came from india 7 yrs ago.. i had esl (English as Second Language)

Please translate

[Guest Javanmard]

de gustibus non disputandum esse: tastes cannot be dicussed

o tempora o mores: o times o uses

[Guest]

Thanks veer

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

I do believe in covering my head (outside of Gurdwara as well that is) and have been doing so for many years..Naturally, after my gift of amrit it was even more stronger than before..

I'm not happy with many of the reasons why Sikh women wear turbans..it's really not my business to look at those women who don't cover their hair either..

A dastaar is not ALL that makes a woman beautiful Saihajleen Kaur, as a Khalsa I'm sure you understand that. Too many times I've come across "Singhs and Singhnia" who believe that their crown makes them a Khalsa..purifies their soul somehow. Importance should be put on this, but what use is it if filth is present inside? Women who cover their heads with chunnis are equally beautiful sister..

As I stated above, I have kept my head covered for years, not with a dastaar..but with bandanas (in the beginning), scarves, chunnis, putka, anything that worked..The best thing that works for me is tying a joora high (at the back) taking the cloth of a putka, cutting the end strings off and tying it around the back joora..

Laughing at the bollywood actress comment :roll:

Anyone can be beautiful from the outside..these things don't make us pure, or 'Khalsas'..I hope Singhs/Singhnees who wear dastaars do understand this.

just my two cents...

"SHE IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL OF WOMEN, UPON HER HEAD SHE WEARS THE JEWEL OF THE LORD'S LOVE"

[Guest]

Well said Sis. I know what you're saying. I just luv the grace and beauty of the Dastaar, just a personal view I guess. Not saying everyone else is ugly, cos as you pointed out, real beauty is different hunna? Lalle Ji, I didn't do any Latin either

[Amrikingh]

True Summeet Poah Ji

You can wear the most religious clothing you want but when the intellect is still stained........what you wear becomes pointless

[Mr §ingh]

Poah jee

well said bhenji's

[sikh_fauge]

Dressing like a khalsa; or replacing virtue with looks..this is ritual, and false practise of true faith..this goes without saying hunah.

I think the real dicussion, is should women wear the keski/dastaar..i think the answer is- its personal choice.

And it looks beautiful on all of my sisters (and sisters without keski look as beautiful too)

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

Sikh Fauge, very diplomatic post!

Yes, it is a personal choice and no one is seeking to infringe upon that, however this thread sets out to understand why and when the Dastaar/Keski is worn by women and what the implications of doing so are...

...these have been spelt out time and again, however, given the various strands of incorrectly propagated notions (that princesses/queens wear turbans, sikh women should be warriors and hence not be feminine -surely one can be both? - to be Sikh, a woman MUST wear a keski and so on) combined with this identity crisis that Sikhs have been falling foul of for the past 100 years, reducing our respected Kakkars to simply a static matter of identity, it is largley misunderstood and when matters are raised on this point, people often react with strong emotions rather than with facts and understanding...

...it is rather like the Kirpan today, to be qualified as a Sikh today, one MUST be amritdhari according to modern rehits, however how many actually understand the implication of carrying a Kirpan beyond its symbolic value? There are many traditions associated with shastars that many people today find revolting...

[sikh_fauge]

I agree..sikhi today is a mish mash of the british empire with indian culture..and to be honest, sometimes i lose my footing and dnt know where i stand!!

It can be confusing and long..so my advice would be, to all sikhs, is to follow bani..read bani..practise bani..listen to bani..and all the answers shall come to u!

I think bhai gurdas ji put it beautifully in one of his poems when he said that the khalsa make decisions spontaneously..

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

A woman should have grace of a princess, a physical & spiritual warrior, a guardian, and a loving soul..simply wearing a head covering doesn't allow these elements to surface..I think your crown (head covering) should complement the beauties you have inside, otherwise it is just a ritualistic dress of sorts. Nothing should be forced, the tide will rise when it is ready to do so. Just remember that in human nature if someone is looked down upon or thought less of because they don't do a certain thing (i.e. wear a dastaar) it will discourage them from embarking on the path itself...

Immerse yourself with divinity..nothing else will matter then..

..teree JAI JAI kaar..

[tableji]

maaroo mehalaa 5 ||

Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:

aleh agam khudhaaee ba(n)dhae ||

O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah,

shhodd khiaal dhuneeaa kae dhha(n)dhhae ||

forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements.

hoe pai khaak fakeer musaafar eihu dharavaes kabool dharaa ||1||

Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. ||1||

sach nivaaj yakeen musalaa ||

Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat.

manasaa maar nivaarihu aasaa ||

Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes.

dhaeh maseeth man moulaanaa kalam khudhaaee paak kharaa ||2||

Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. ||2||

saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu ||

Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu ||

Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3||

Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3||

kuraan kathaeb dhil maahi kamaahee ||

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible;

dhas aouraath rakhahu badh raahee ||

restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil.

pa(n)ch maradh sidhak lae baadhhahu khair sabooree kabool paraa ||4||

Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. ||4||

makaa mihar rojaa pai khaakaa ||

Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast.

bhisath peer lafaj kamaae a(n)dhaajaa ||

Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word.

hoor noor musak khudhaaeiaa ba(n)dhagee aleh aalaa hujaraa ||5||

God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. ||5||

sach kamaavai soee kaajee ||

He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth.

jo dhil sodhhai soee haajee ||

He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart.

so mulaa maloon nivaarai so dharavaes jis sifath dhharaa ||6||

He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. ||6||

sabhae vakhath sabhae kar vaelaa || khaalak yaadh dhilai mehi moulaa ||

Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart.

thasabee yaadh karahu dhas maradhan su(n)nath seel ba(n)dhhaan baraa ||7||

Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. ||7||

dhil mehi jaanahu sabh filehaalaa ||

You must know in your heart that everything is temporary.

khilakhaanaa biraadhar hamoo ja(n)jaalaa ||

Family, household and siblings are all entanglements.

meer malak oumarae faanaaeiaa eaek mukaam khudhaae dharaa ||8||

Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only God's Gate is the permanent place. ||8||

aval sifath dhoojee saabooree ||

First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment;

theejai halaemee chouthhai khairee ||

third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities.

pa(n)javai pa(n)jae eikath mukaamai eaehi pa(n)j vakhath thaerae aparaparaa ||9||

Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. ||9||

sagalee jaan karahu moudheefaa ||

Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere.

badh amal shhodd karahu hathh koojaa ||

Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry.

khudhaae eaek bujh dhaevahu baa(n)gaa(n) buragoo barakhuradhaar kharaa ||10||

Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet. ||10||

hak halaal bakhorahu khaanaa ||

Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.

dhil dhareeaao dhhovahu mailaanaa ||

Wash away pollution with the river of your heart.

peer pashhaanai bhisathee soee ajaraaeel n dhoj t(h)araa ||11||

One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11||

kaaeiaa kiradhaar aourath yakeenaa ||

Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

ra(n)g thamaasae maan hakeenaa ||

Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

naapaak paak kar hadhoor hadheesaa saabath soorath dhasathaar siraa ||12||

Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

musalamaan mom dhil hovai ||

To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted,

a(n)thar kee mal dhil thae dhhovai ||

and wash away pollution from within the heart.

dhuneeaa ra(n)g n aavai naerrai jio kusam paatt ghio paak haraa ||13||

He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. ||13||

jaa ko mihar mihar miharavaanaa ||

One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord,

soee maradh maradh maradhaanaa ||

is the manliest man among men.

soee saekh masaaeik haajee so ba(n)dhaa jis najar naraa ||14||

He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. ||14||

kudharath kaadhar karan kareemaa ||

The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy.

sifath muhabath athhaah reheemaa ||

The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable.

hak hukam sach khudhaaeiaa bujh naanak ba(n)dh khalaas tharaa ||15||3||12||

Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. ||15||3||12||

[Beast]

A woman should have grace of a princess, a physical & spiritual warrior, a guardian, and a loving soul..simply wearing a head covering doesn't allow these elements to surface

Why not?

[tableji]

I love the Dastar wearing Singhanis, look amazingly beautiful, more so than any other style of Chunni or these silly bollywood actresses.

yeah!!! Dastaar is our crown!

[tableji]

Why not?

Because anyone can dress up and tie a dastaar. Doesnt change who they are from the inside! Who knows they cud jus be doin it as a fashion statement

[Amrikingh]

aho tableji (gurps) you can wear da 5 k's but still be swearing and be gangsterfied like Samual Jackson in Pulp Fiction ......