Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 On the thread http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...t=4504&start=45 in order to defend the Islamic view that it's ok to lie in order to defend Islam Beast made this remark Have famous Sikhs not lied in the past? What about when Guru Gobind Singh dressed as a Muslim pir (right terminology?) to fool the Mughals? Do any other members know of any famous Sikhs who lied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nek Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Harjot Oberoi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyDudesWassup Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Very horrible thing to say by this Beast character about Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. How did Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 ...to fool the Mughals? My own belief on lying: If you are going to lie to uphold your dharam then go ahead and lie. But if your lie is in contradiction to your dharam then that is wrong. I heard a story today involving some Nihangs in the past. There were some Mughals (ghazi's? not sure of the terminology) whose job it was to hunt down and kill/capture Nihangs. Anyway, before 2 Nihangs killed one of these Mughals they found out (from him) that there was a secret meeting being held in a town where all the main jathedars were convening. The Nihangs wore the Mughals clothes and let down their hair to impersonate their would-be captors. They marched down to the town waving the Mughal's flag. People obviously thought that they were mughals so they were able to enter the meeting. They locked the doors and then preceded to kill everyone in the room. So why the animosity with lying? its nice of naunidh kaur to simply quote my view without giving her own view abt when Guruji fooled the Mughals into thinking that He was a pir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Also think about it, what I said was deliberately posed as a question so people could comment on it and discuss whether what he did was "lying". I suppose it depends on the context. Got this from shastarvidiya: 'What is false I will call false. Even though the people may try to silence me. I do not care for what anybody says. I will speak but the truth from my mouth.' How does this fit in with the sakhi? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Beast Do you know what a rhetorical question is? If not look it up and then tell us that you didn't imply that Sikhs have lied in the past On a Sikh forum a Sikh casts aspersions on the honesty of famous Sikhs in history in order to defend Islam. This certainly is Kalyug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 its nice of naunidh kaur to simply quote my view without giving her own view abt when Guruji fooled the Mughals into thinking that He was a pir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 is the issue that he supported Islam or the fact that he said something true that u can't handle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth_seeker Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 This is from http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/sikh_nirmala.html It is said that once Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked his court Pundit Ragunath to teach his Sikhs Sanskrit, but, the Brahmin refused saying he could not teach the Sikhs Sanskrit. His reason was that Sanskrit was the sacred Sanatan Hindu language of the Hindu demigods, and because there were amongst the Sikhs individuals belonging to low castes, he could not teach them. This reaction prompted the Guru to send the above-mentioned Sikhs in guise of Sadhus to Banares. There, they learned all manner of ancient Indian Sanskrit knowledge. When they came back they founded the Nirmala order of Sikhs with the blessings of the Guru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 is the issue that he supported Islam or the fact that he said something true that u can't handle? The fact that he said that famous Sikhs in history have lied when there is no proof that any famous sikhs has lied. By famous Sikhs I assume that he means Bhai Gurdas, Bhai Mani Singh and others. The implication here is that they lied and it was in line with Sikhi and not an abherration that occured during a weak moment. If you think that he mentioned something which was true could you clarify what that fact was and perhaps we can discuss it further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Are you saying that Guruji LIED in this Sakhi. Please state what you mean, we are discussing LYING here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 There is difference between divine lie and just lie!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 naunidhi, if u're in disguise, r u showing ppl who u really are? or r u hiding from them? and if u rn't showing them who u really are and say that u're someone else, isn't that a lie? but the point is that he hid his own identity to save his life. no shame in that. i consider it a smart move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 There is difference between divine lie and just lie!!!!!!!!!! The difference here in that as far as I am aware Guruji did not say to the mighals..'I am ucch da Peer' thereby telling a LIE. Maybe Beast has another version of the Sakhi which I am sure he will share with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 He did said "Mir Pir" and clap with two hands few times before leaving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 I think beast have clarified in his post above. If you are going to lie to uphold your dharam then go ahead and lie. But if your lie is in contradiction to your dharam then that is wrong. Lie to uphold or save your dharam is a divine lie and cannot be consider comparable to lie we (Kalyugi jev) says! He has clarified so there is no point of debating. Debating is over to avoid personality attacks/un-wanted bickering!!! Please sort it over pm! *Topic Locked* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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