Colonialism, Priests and Sikhi

[kamalroop singh]

VahigurooJiKaKhalsa

VahigurooJiKeFateh!

Dear Sangat Ji,

after a recent converstion with my neighbour, I feel some what compelled to right a sort piece on this subject.

For some unknown reason the British, and European, as well as their American counterparts felt it is necessary to go to every corner of the globe to conquer. This involved analysing the cultures present in the geographical location, then some how get monetry gain from that civilisation, as well as of course bring them into the "faith", and give them a place in heaven with Jesus Ji's blessings.

A part of this "modernisation" process made people feel that they need material goods, which of course are everyday necessities. Make them believe that their own culture is primitive, and not so good as the invading Christian materialistic culture. Lord Curzon often wrote about how the Indian needs to think like the British. This involved setting up education centres and Universities, and dismantle the traditional ones. This also involved making people change their dress, and sadly their outlook on life itself.(Samurai and the American colonialists).

What amazes me is that Western culture is so critical of Eastern literature, and practices. Everything that I have seen written by the British on Sikhi starts one kind of controversy or another, however they fail to examine their own faith with this critical stance. For example the legitamacy of the Bible, which has been changed so many times, it is unrecognisable from the original, if the original exists. If a Sikh was to spend lots of wasted time, like the Priests have trying to dismantle Sikhi, I am pretty sure that it would be a much better job. Not because we know more, but simply that so many holes exist that it is unbelievable. A Sikhs job is to help everybody in whatever way, as we simply believe in God and no religion at all.

We have been attacked ideologically by the colonial, and Protestant powers, from the angle of our Canon, e.g Rag Mala and Dasam Guru's Granth Sahib. To even Bhai Bala even existing!!!! The Prostant ethic infused into the Singh Sabha the whole idea of definations. The division between Sehajdhari and Amritdhari, is all a result of the British classifications. General Dyers saropa, and the formation of the SGPC is all a recognisable impact of the British mind. Instead of select, we now have election! How nice it is that we have changed Gurus own maryada, with a Farangi one.

Whole nations the Native Indians, The Natives of Australia, many Oriental dynasties, and South American Natives, have been killed, raped, converted, enslaved, mentally enslaved,economically prostituted by the tyranny of the Colonial Monarchies and Priests. However we as Sikhs seem to think that we have been untouched!!!

For any country to keep traditions is uncivilised. Like the dress of a Sikh or our languages and dress. However have we ever wondered how much pomp and tradition has been kept here in the U.K?

My neighbour acussed Sikhs of being backward and primitive. This was my reply in short.

I asked in what way?

She replied in the way that you look, and arranged marriages, keeping weapons etc.

I replied, " The queen wears a crown, its look quite ridiculous, almost comic. However it is the tradition. There are armed soldiers with Big Black pom poms on their head. There is an archbishop for the country. There is a man called "Black rod" in the houses of Parliment. There is a house of "lords" that earn that title via hereditary means. This country didnt want to go to war with Iraq, but the government still sent them in. The royal family has always arranged marriages. The Princes carry swords. The queen keeps horses and too many customs to narrate.

Then how can you say Sikhs are backward? The simple Truth is the British have a complex of being superior. A Christian society that believes in "turn the other cheek" yet conquered lands for wealth, and had colonial powers in the life-time of people around today."

We as Sikhs should be proud that we have a young history that is clean from these kind of things. The only problem is we fight amongst ourselves and I wonder who had a hand in that ?

[kamalroop singh]

http://www.saco.freeserve.co.uk/liveschanged/sikhwoman.htm

http://www.saco.freeserve.co.uk/liveschanged/sikhman.htm

[Guest Javanmard]

They have lost their own traditions and are jealous of people of have them! They have turned their backs to Rome's authority, burned, executed and tortured thousands of pious Catholics, damaged churches, invented their "Church of England" joke of a religion, invaded other countries, plundered, murdered, raped and enslaved other countries in the most barbaric way and they have the guts to calll us uncivilised :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Well let me tell you some things about civilisation:

a proper civilisation has:

-high quality and free education at all levels

-all citizens have the means to own a house

-all citizens are bound by a common sense of belonging

-media circulate culture NOT TRASH

- citizen'a are critical and politically responsible

-infrastructure and transportation is updated regularly

Do they have that? NO!!! How on earth can they (the UK) call themselves civilized?!?!?!?! I fail to recognise civilisation in football, beer and page 3 girls!!! Yeah Truth hurts!!! Most countries in Europe would ban trash like the Daily Mail or the Sun!!! Most Europeans don't drink as much as the Brits! Oh let me remember: who were the hooligans who caused trouble in Portugal?mmmmmmmm

The Friday night pig faces who drink like barbarians: are they civilised?

My advise to all SIkhs:

be more educated than them, be more noble than them

PUT THEM TO SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We'll see who's civilised!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[palm_w1]

i think it is slightly biased to label just the church of england as being so uncivilised. whereas 'protestant' countries have commited much evil. if history is to be believed catholic countries have done just as much. e.g. conquest of south america and the mass murder of natives. introduction of slavery 2 south america. etc etc.

although i do agree sikhs should be more educated and noble.

[palm_w1]

the webiste posted is a joke. the people who seem to have converted never really lived lives as sikhs, and that is by reading their own stories. also i believe most people like this are weak willed and have simply been brainwashed by bs propoganda as christianity has many contradictions.

i would love to go along to their discussions and debate with them.

[Guest Javanmard]

Dear Palm_1 I get your point but... there are some other facts to take into account:

1. In terms of parampara the Orthodox, Oriental and Catholic churches are the only ones that can claim to have an unbroken historical and apolstolical link with Jesus. The Church of England was created by... Henry VIII because he wished to get divorced: I don't know about you but this does not sound like Divine ordination to me. Let's not even talk about the whole mess within the Church of England with its incoherent theology! As Protestants are concerned:Luther was an anti-Semit and sided with the nobles against the porr farmers!!!

2. Yes the Catholic Chruch has commited a lot of crimes but... it's the only Christians Church that has asked its victimes for forgiveness!

3. Spain and Portugal did commit horrible crimes in South America but... one also needs to know that their leaders (like the Marques de Pombal) were staunch atheists and ennemies of the Church!

4. Yes the Catholic Church converted millions to its fold but... in most cases people did conserve their ancestral culture in one way or another. Jesuit missionaries in China and India dressed as Chinese priests or Sadhus and used Buddhist and Hindu imagery to transmit Chritianity. Just like the Nirmalas use the Bhagavadgita and Upanishads to convert Hindus to Sikhi.Protestant missionaries wanted to make Europeans out of Indians, Africans and Chinese!

5. The Jesuits did create independent and free Indian republics in Paraguay where Indios lived fee in communes and faught against the Spanish and Portuguese!

6. The regions in South and North America where people actually do intermarry between ethnic groups are Catholic (universal). It is in Protestant countries that racism was and still is the worse.

7. Despite it smany shortcomings the Catholic Church has done a lot in terms of helping the working classes in Europe who are by far better educated and decent that the working class in Britain. Why? Because religious orders offered free schooling and medical care for these people. This point was recently made in an historical study at the university of Strasbourg.

8. I would not call these websites Christians for the reasons I mentioned above:parampara. In the same way Al Muhajiroun can claim to be Muslims but they simply aren't becaus ethey follow the traditions of those who assassinated the Prophet's family and his daughter in particular:

Fatma is my daughter whoever hurts her, hurts me and insults God!

How can the Sunnis claim to be Muslims when they follow Abu Bakr and Omar who burnt Fatima's house and killed her?

How can these Protestant claim to be Christians if they don't believe in the transbustantatiation of the eucharist when this is explicitly stated in the Gospels: this is my body, my blood do this in rememberance of me!

They ordain gay priests when the Bible explicitly condemns homosexuality.

I mean if you follow a religion follow it properly or don't but don't change it because of some fashion!

That's how weak these people are: they change their religion whenever a new fashion comes up! How on earth can they be credible!!!

Same thing counts for these SGPC lot as well!!!

We should use this against these idiots when they try to convert us with their pseudo-Islam and pseudo-Christianity!

[Hari]

Hey Shakya Nyorai!!

Why have the Christian Gnostics always called the Roman Church (along with all other Literalist"Christian" heresies) the Church of the anti-Christ??

Why did the Roman Church do it's best to sytematically delete Gnostic Christianity, which I see as the true teachings of Christ Jesus?

Why did the Roman Church torture and murder Gnostics, accusing them of heresy, when in fact it was the Roman Church who were and still are the arch-heretics?

:arrow: http://www.jesusmysteries.demon.co.uk

I could on and on about the Literalist heresy of the Roman Church and it's ba****d children.

Grrrrooowwwwlll!!!!!!!

Akaaaaaaaaaaal!!!!!

[Hari]

http://www.jesusmysteries.demon.co.uk/j&g/j&ghome.html

Why were the secret teachings of the original Christians

brutally suppressed by the Roman Church?

Because they relate the myth

of the Christian Goddess Sophia.

Because they portray Jesus and Mary Magdalene

as mythic figures based on the Pagan

dying and resurrecting Godman

and the fallen and redeemed Goddess.

Because they show that the gospel story is

a mystical allegory encoding the profound philosophy

of Gnosis - Knowledge of Truth.

Because they undermine all external authority

by directly revealing the Christ within.

Because they have the power to turn the world inside-out

and transform life into an exploration of consciousness.

Drawing on the cutting edge of modern scholarship

this groundbreaking book from the authors

of the international bestseller The Jesus Mysteries,

decodes the secret teachings of the original Christians

for the first time in nearly two millennia.

[Guest Javanmard]

Do I represent the Catholic Church? NO!

Gnostic thinking has survived in the Church even though mystics have been persecuted by the legalist wing of the Church.

There is no doubt about the fact that the gospels, like any other sacred scripture, have several levels of meaning. my problem is: if the Catholic Chruch has murdered all the Gnostics who are these people then and where do they take their parampara from?

[Hari]

Do I represent the Catholic Church? NO!

I know that, you've stated that before.However you seem to have a bias preference of them.I should tell you straight, I do not like the Roman Church at all.They are Shaitaan's bride.That is my belief.

my problem is: if the Catholic Chruch has murdered all the Gnostics who are these people then and where do they take their parampara from?

I have an answer, but I am not qualified to type my answer here.I am not a Christian Gnostic.Maybe you would wish to get in contact with a Gnostic, and ask him if you can get hold of him?Here is Timothy Freke's (a modern day Christian Gnostic) website:

http://www.timfreke.demon.co.uk/index.html

You can email him.Get in touch with him, ask him what he and Gnostics are about, what is their parampara etc.He does talks too:

http://www.timfreke.demon.co.uk/seminars.html

[Guest Javanmard]

TO be very frank my bias in Christianity goes to the Orthodox and Oriental Chruches. Catholicism has just lost all repect for itself? Quite sad for such a rich religious tradition!

[Hari]

TO be very frank my bias in Christianity goes to the Orthodox and Oriental Chruches. Catholicism has just lost all repect for itself? Quite sad for such a rich religious tradition!

Fair enough, I assumed wrong I guess.Orthodox and Oriental eh?Interesting....

[Guest Javanmard]

Hesychia!