sherni_ke_dil Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! I read a recent post about books on sikhi and people have referred to the Bala Janam Sakhis. From my understanding, the Bala Janam Sakhis were discredited by the Singh Sabha Movement. This is thought is now widely accepted in the sangat. for the reasons as follows: The evidence of Bhai Bala being a companion to Guru Nanak Dev Ji comes only from the Bala Janam Sakhis. He is not heard of in any other Sakhi tradition/cycle. Whereas, we know that Bhai Mardana was with Guru Nanak Dev Ji as he is mentioned in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Sakhis With Bhai Bala are chronologically incoherent. The do not follow any 'rhyme or reason'. Whereas again, the Bhai Mardana Sakhis follow each other logically in date. The Bhai Bala Sakhi content consists primarilary of miracle stories which appealed to the popular mind. However, Guru Nanak Dev Ji was strongly against any forms of miracles and would not perform any. As these were only there to inflate some peoples ego. This is only as much as i know about this. I never had heard of Bhai Bala but many friends and family members had. But the thought is coherent and valid. Bhul Chuk maf karni ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Singh_but_cant_Sing Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 WJKK WJKF! I never knew that. :shock: I remember in my childhood days my mom used read us to sakhis from the janam sakhi!, now only to find that they are discredited , makes me sad. I used love hearing those stories when I was a kid and we still have it. I will have to look into this. Are there any links to where it is mensioned that it is discredited :?:. WJKK WJKF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogroup singh Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Source: http://www.likhari.org/bindra5.htm After my research I came to know that we should not rely on "Janam Sakhis" as they are not history source but fairy tales. Why am I saying this? See below. All these Janam Sakhis are synonymous on one point that Guru Nanak was born in the month of Baisakh. Before these Janam Sakhis became to be known Bhai Bala's Janam Sakhi, as mentioned above, had overwhelmed the Sikh mind and thought. People were relying on its contents with full faith and confidence. Its authors and innovators tried to show that it was written during the lifetime of Shri Guru Angad Dev. But its substance does not confirm to the teachings of Guru Nanak. Its language is far more modern than the one prevalent at the time, it is alleged to be written. Historically there are irrefutable flaws in its conceptual themes and the anecdotes. According to official records, the name Eminabad was given to the town of Sayadpur, in the reign of Akbar. At the time of Guru Nanak's visit, it was known as Sayedpur. Even Emperor Babar mentioned this name in his Tuzk-e-Babri. The Wilayat Wali text refers to the town as Sayedpur but in Bhai Bala's version it is specified as Eminabad. Bhai Bala's account refers to Bhai Lalo as a `tarkhan', but at the time of Guru Nanak, people from the clan, such as Bhai Lalo's, were known as `Bahdysut' and that is how Bhai Lalo is referred in the Wilayat edition. As compared with Bahdysut, comparatively, Tarkhan is a modern term that is prevalent even today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Singh_but_cant_Sing Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Thanks Veer ji! :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogroup singh Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Not my words but pasting it from sikhnet.com In your response under the posting "Mardana" you mention Bhai Bala. Many Sikh scholars doubt the existence of Bhai Bala. On this topic, the late and giant scholar of Sikhism, prof. Sahib Singh writes: 'But it is most surprising that such a renowned Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev, called Bhai Bala, was totally ignored by the accepted top-most scholar-poet of Sikhism, named Bhai Gurdas Bhalla, who in his 11th Var, while giving the list of the devotees of Guru Nanak Dev, omitted the name of Bhai Bala! Bhai Gurdas even included the name of nawab Daulat Khan Lodi, as the devotee of Guru Nanak Dev, but not of Bhai Bala. In the first Var, Bhai Gurdas very briefly gave an account of Guru Nanak Dev's life. While describing the Third missionary Tour of Guru Nanak Dev for visiting Mecca, Madina (sic), Baghdad and other places, Bhai Gurdas states-"Baba went to Baghdad and stayed there at the outskirts of the City. There was one God-man, the Baba, and the second one was Minstrel Mardana."' (ABOUT COMPILATION OF SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB, p165). In his book "About Compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib"Prof Sahib Singh calls the Janam Sakhi of Bhai Bala "distories" and shows that they were written in 1693 AD and not in 1539 AD as popularly believed. He also proves that this particular Janamsakhi was written by the enemies of Sikhism. He also writes: "On the other hand the great Sikh historian, Karam Singh, in his book "Katiak or Baisakh", has stated the reality of Bala's Janamsakhi. By writing this book, Karam Singh has rendered singular service to the cause of Sikhism. Every literate Sikh should read this book and appreciate the real service rendered by him" I have not found any evidence to the contrary and it is about time that the truth about these matters be made very public. If any one has any evidence to the contrary, please present for the edification and enlightenment of the cyber sangat. Bhul maaf karni. source: CLICK HERE 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihang Gargaj Singh Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 many other Gursikhs from the Gurus times are not mentioned in the Guru granth Sahib do they not exist as well..........Bhai Gurdas, Baba Budha Ji, Baba Budhan Shah and so forth.......???????? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BikramjitSingh Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 many other Gursikhs from the Gurus times are not mentioned in the Guru granth Sahib do they not exist as well..........Bhai Gurdas, Baba Budha Ji, Baba Budhan Shah and so forth.......???????? Nihang Ji Please read the post properly before putting forward your comments. The argument is that in Bhai Gurdas' 11th var and not the SGGS all the devotees of Guru Nanak are listed. Why would Bhai Gurdas who lists even minor devotees of Guru Nanak chose to leave out the name of Bhai Bala ?. Considering that according to the Bhai Bala Janamsakhi, Bhai Bala holds a position similar to Bhai Mardana. Each and every Janamsakhi recounts the travels of Guru Nanak with Bhai Mardana but Bhai Bala only exists in the Bhai Bala Janamsakhi. Could it be that Bhai Bala never existed ?. GurFateh Bikramjit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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