Faluja

[Gabbar]

I've just been watching the news and the situation in Falluja and I was thinking, there are similararities between the situation in 1984 in Amritsar and india.

In this case, the percieved 'terrorists' are in a city and apparently hiding in hospitals and mosques etc.... and all they are doing is what any civilian would be doing, just defending themselves and their land from the percieved enemy (the Americans). There may be some terrorists around in the city, just as there might have been in Amritsar no doubt. In the case in India, innocent civilians were also killed who were defending their beliefs and rights.

However, the Americans are going in with the intention of world dominance and in particular, obtaining and controlling the oil fields (so that George W Bush Sr can keep up his end of the deal with the oil companies who funded his political campaign). They are going in because they are afraid the Middle East controlling the world oil supply... just as maybe Indra Ghandi was afraid that the sikhs would get too much power.

Just as Saddam Hussain went into hiding as did Jarnail Bhindrawale.

In both cases, places of worship, holy places were attacked... which should never be done in any case. These are the places of God (Church, Mosque, Gurdwara, etc) and should not be damaged in human conflict. The Americans are going in with arrogance. One comment of a soldier regarding the innocent civilians: "they are in the wrong place at the wrong time". This can be seen as the mentalality from inside the camp, something that the worlds media do not see.

My point is that in both cases, attacks, murders were being committed by these governments and in this case, they still are. However, when it happens to other people, i.e. non-sikhs, no-one seems to be bothered, no fuss is kicked off, no emails are sent to stop these attrociaties. This is i'm afraid, double standards. Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee stood up for other people who he felt were being targeted and were receieving unjustice...

400 years or so later... similiar situation... and what are we doing? nothing...

[Infernal Monk]

dude, I think you have things very wrong....it is not nearly the same situation, and I think you need to do a bit more research before you claim such absurd things...oh and if the US wanted to demolsih Faluja then it would have been done a while ago, I don't think that is the intention.

Also know that I say this as a person who is opposed to that war.

[Gabbar]

Not really, it is so obvious and common knowledge that the main reason America has gone into Iraq is for the oil. I have done my research, I think you need to do yours before you start commenting. US tried to demolish Faluja but because of the fierce resistence, they can't (similar to Vietnam). Yes, I am against the war becuase it is based on greed and not freedom!

[commander]

I've just been watching the news and the situation in Falluja and I was thinking, there are similararities between the situation in 1984 in Amritsar and india.

Yeah, very shallow similarities.

In this case, the percieved 'terrorists' are in a city and apparently hiding in hospitals and mosques etc.... and all they are doing is what any civilian would be doing, just defending themselves and their land from the percieved enemy (the Americans). There may be some terrorists around in the city, just as there might have been in Amritsar no doubt. In the case in India, innocent civilians were also killed who were defending their beliefs and rights.

There are many foreign insurgents or 'terrorists' included in the ranks of these people. They have come to Iraq solely to fight against US troops which represent the Western world. Where were the so called insurgents when Saddam Hussein was murdering and butchering his own people? Where were the Iraqi people, for that matter?

However, the Americans are going in with the intention of world dominance and in particular, obtaining and controlling the oil fields (so that George W Bush Sr can keep up his end of the deal with the oil companies who funded his political campaign). They are going in because they are afraid the Middle East controlling the world oil supply...

There is no evidence supporting these claims.

just as maybe Indra Ghandi was afraid that the sikhs would get too much power.

We will probably never know.

Just as Saddam Hussein went into hiding as did Jarnail Bhindrawale.

That is an utterly stupid and foolish claim. You should study some more history before making such absurd statements. Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala died as a warrior fighting Indian bullets and tanks. Saddam Hussein was a coward who was dragged out of a ratty hole. There aren't even any similarities between the two.

My point is that in both cases, attacks, murders were being committed by these governments and in this case, they still are.

Like Saddam Hussein's government, right? A period of conflict is expected after a War. It will settle down soon, hopefully.

However, when it happens to other people, i.e. non-sikhs, no-one seems to be bothered, no fuss is kicked off, no emails are sent to stop these attrociaties. This is i'm afraid, double standards.

Which amounts to zilch. All this time Saddam Hussein murdered and plundered at will but the world did nothing. Now he will face justice.

Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee stood up for other people who he felt were being targeted and were receieving unjustice...

Guru Tegh Bahadur would have fought against a lot of things. I do not agree with the war in Iraq, but what is done is done. It is imperative that the U.S. stay the course to stabalize the area.

400 years or so later... similiar situation... and what are we doing? nothing...

When your own house is burning, it is hard to provide shelter for others.

[Guest]

for the americans bombing Faluja wouldnot be problem, but thats not what they came for, knowing the americans, faluja its self isprobabl floating on shit loads of oil.

[palm_w1]

falluja is not even remotely similar to amritsar in 84. the reasons for the fight, the type of fight, the outcomes of the fight are totally different. Having said that i wish the residents of falluja well in their battle for freedom.

[Gabbar]

I have noticed that the first two replies to this topic did not see my point of view and hence did not agree it with. I also noticed that they were both Americans. I just want to say that do not let your pride get in the way, it is a dangerous thing.

By the way, I did not say the situations were exactly the same, I said they were similiar in a sense... you need a open mind and from a top-level view.

There is no evidence to support the claims of oil? It is just plain obvious! How are they going to get evidence, they are not going to tell you are they? Have you not seent the film Farenheight 9/11? It is all propaganda, they tell you what you want to hear... and because we are here sitting in the western world thinking we have got the best facilities and know everything, we think we are hearing facts.... WRONG! It is the same thing, propaganda!

Regarding Bhindralwale, I was looking at the perspective of they both never came out and surrendered themsleves, hence, saving all them innocent civilians getting killed.

"It will settle down soon, hopefully. " yeah right... course it will... after the Americans have killed every Iraqi and every person who dares to speak out against the Americans! And they would justify by saying he was a terrorist who saying he was linked to 9/11!!!

"I do not agree with the war in Iraq, but what is done is done. "

What is done is done?? What kind of attitude is that? It should not have been done this way in the first place! Should have been done through the UN!

"When your own house is burning, it is hard to provide shelter for others."

I'm sure the sikhs in that time weren't exactly living freely... dont be selfish and help other people.

I also hope that the resisdents of Falluja defeat the Americans. And I hope they get free and get to leave in peace which is what they deserve.

[Infernal Monk]

The what is done is done attitude I believe relates to the fact that Iraq has already been attacked. If you read carefully you would notice that both us "americans" did not agree with the war...but since it has already happened might as well as stay and rebuild the country.

And I will not deny that there are claim for oil, but dude we aren't exactly hurting for oil. We buy most of our oil on purpose so we don't tap too much into our reserves.

And you speak of propoganda, and then you cite Farenheight 9/11?!

There were some credible things in that movie, but to say it is full of accurate facts is stupid. I think you are the one being influenced by propoganda. And I state this again I try to maintain an objective point of view. I do my research, that is why as much as I did not like Kerry, I still didn't want Bush in office.

And back to your original post, it still doesn't make sense...you generalize way too much, and in that respect I assume you could demonstrate how 84 is similar to so many other events in the world.

[Gabbar]

That is true, many events are similiar. But what I am saying is that sometimes a selfish view is taken and we need to look at other communities who have been affected by these types of attrocities

[Infernal Monk]

That is true, many events are similiar. But what I am saying is that sometimes a selfish view is taken and we need to look at other communities who have been affected by these types of attrocities

I full agree with you that we should look at all sides of the issue.

However, To call the rebels in Faluja "innocent citizens suffering atrocities while fighting for their freedom from the oppressive Americans" is taking things a bit too far. Those rebels aren't saints. And if they really wanted to make their country better then it would be wise to cooperate with us. That would stabilize the country, and then elections could occur, and we could leave the country sooner.

Many people may hate on America, but once Iraq is rebuilt especially if everyone cooperates, all Iraqis will be better off. The government established by us will be one to provide Iraqis with freedom, safety, and prosperity. But I suppose those rebels want things to be like they were under Saddam Hussein, with people starving, oppressed, and fearing for their lives..

[Amrikingh]

blonde's are not great , they are like any other women, JUST "annoying"

(joking)