Nanaksar Maryada Question

[samosasingh]

For those familiar with the Nanaksar Maryada, a question:

Both Baba Nand Singh and Baba Isher Singh frequently used "parchees" to ask for agiaa from Guru Granth Sahib Jee for different questions etc, etc.

Under what circumstances should we be using this method and exactly how did they do this? Did they ever provide any advice on the topic?

I know they did ardaas to ask the question and say what is written on both chits (parchee's), then I am not sure what to do. As I read in Anand Chamatkaar, Baba Isher Singh threw both parchees over Guru Granth Sahib and whic ever landed closest to the Saroop was taken as the command of the Guru. Is this the proper way?

Now do we take the Hukumnamaa before we throw the parchees or after or not at all?

Any other knowledge on this topic would be helpfull.

The problem is sometimes I can't figure out how to apply the Hukumnamaa and figure out what the answer is sometimes, which is why for some questions I feel the need to ask via parchees? Do any of you have this problem? How have you tackled the problem?

Or have I got it all wrong, are we just supposed to do ardaas and ask for blessings and thats it. But some times even after weighing the goods and bads of a situation you still can't figure it all out.

Also why is the the site so slow these days?

[samosasingh]

Hey where is Karamjeet and others??????????????

[karmjeet]

veer ji ,

I am myself not sure about what is the right way of doing it .

But here is a saakhi I read in Anand Chamatkar . When Baba Nand Singh ji left this panj bhootak chola , Baba Ishar Singh ji and other gurmukhs were confused about whether Baba ji has really left this chola or they have just gone somewhere to do udhaar of a sikh .

Because at that time they couldn't hear any heartbeat or breathing but they were able to hear waheguru simran from his body .

So they wrote down two parchees . They wrote ikoankar satgur prasad on top of the parchee . And mentioned their question . On one parchee they wrote the answer that we haven't gone anywhere and on the other one they wrote that we have left this chola .

So they did humble ardaas , rolled down the parchees , i duno how they threw them but the one that came out in front was the answer that baba ji had left his chola .

I don't think it matters how u throw the parchis what matters is how much faith and devotion you put in your question .

This is what i do . I make the parchees and one of them is usually blank which means i should still wait and not do anything yet . I do ardas , sit in front of guru ji not on tabya but where we do matha tek . then i would take the parchees and shake them in my open fist so that they mix properly . i make sure that i do not jnow wt is written on each parchi to prevent any bias . Then i would just throw them forward and pick the one that is in front . then i would take hukamnama . if its prasanta i would do the work that i intended to ask whther i should do it or not and if the hukamnama is of tadna i wouldn't do the that task . then open the parchi to c wt ws in there .

thts all i could think with my tush budhi . usually gursikhs know better abt wt to do ,not manmuks like me .

i hope i made some sense .

wjkk wjkf

[samosasingh]

THE thing is: This is how I am going about this - I did ardaas took a Hukumnamaa threw the parchees. Now the Hukum was Tadnaa but the parchee said go ahead - Is that confusing or what???

IF you said in the ardaas that you were going to go by the parchees the even if the Hukum is Tadna you still need to go by the parchees - am I right in this assumption.

My real question is - do we as Sikhs make a decision and ask the Guru to help us fulfill that decision, OR do we ask if we are to do something or not from the Guru?

[karmjeet]

if you get a tadna , do ardas again and again , ask for maafi , again take a hukam . if u again get tadna , do nimrata sahit ardas again .

u can take hukamnama a max. of 3 times . if u still get tadna after 3 times , don't do the task . ths wt baba ishar singh ji used to say .

there was once this guy . he had to go get his eyecheckup from a doctor . he did ardas to get agya and took hukam nama , the hukam was tadna . but this guy didn't care . he went on . he was going on a horse carriage . on his way the wheel of the carriage broke down , he fell down and had a couple of bones broken . beacuse this guy didn't ask for maafi .

the best way to get out of this confusing situation is not to use the parchees . just do the ardaas and ask for permission . try taking hukam 3 times before u get prasanta . if even after 3 tries u don't get prasanta hukam then don't even think of doing the task ; there is bound to be an obstacle in tht path .

[karmjeet]

we ask if we are to do something or not from the Guru

ths wt i think

[samosasingh]

Now the question arises how do you know whether or not the Hukum is prasantaa or Tadnaa? In a sense everything in prasantaa, just being with the Guru is Prasnataa. How are we to know which is which?There are some Hukums which are neither.

[akaali]

Now the question arises how do you know whether or not the Hukum is prasantaa or Tadnaa? In a sense everything in prasantaa, just being with the Guru is Prasnataa. How are we to know which is which?There are some Hukums which are neither.

good question

[ssinghuk]

ok another Nanaksar maryada question... (maybe i shudve started another thread..)

When reciting the Sampat Sukhmanee Sahib as prescibed by Baba Nand Singh jee maharaj you see after every astpadee the sampat of

'Sukhmanee Sukh Amrit Prabh Naam|| Bhagat Jana key Mnn Bisraam||'.

However, after this comes there also come, in written form, '8'/'att' and the number of the astpadee just completed e.g. if you've just completed the 3rd astpadee then it will read att tin. I wanted to know why the numbers are necessary/whats the reasoning behind them?

btw, for those interested, the other sampat is 'Satnaam Sri Vaheguroo' after reciting the salok.

[karmjeet]

ok another Nanaksar maryada question... (maybe i shudve started another thread..)

When reciting the Sampat Sukhmanee Sahib as prescibed by Baba Nand Singh jee maharaj you see after every astpadee the sampat of

'Sukhmanee Sukh Amrit Prabh Naam|| Bhagat Jana key Mnn Bisraam||'.

However, after this comes there also come, in written form, '8'/'att' and the number of the astpadee just completed e.g. if you've just completed the 3rd astpadee then it will read att tin. I wanted to know why the numbers are necessary/whats the reasoning behind them?

btw, for those interested, the other sampat is 'Satnaam Sri Vaheguroo' after reciting the salok.

The author of the anand chamatkar ( hajoori raagi of baba nand singhji ) mentions that he himself is not sure about the maryada of saying these numbers . But the author thinks that it might have been that when baba ji wanted to stop listening the path , he would know where he stopped and next time start listening from that astpadi . This is authors opinion .

There could be some other reasons as well but who knows .

A sampat sukhmani path = 2 sukhmani paths without sampat

wjkk wjkf

[karmjeet]

Now the question arises how do you know whether or not the Hukum is prasantaa or Tadnaa? In a sense everything in prasantaa, just being with the Guru is Prasnataa. How are we to know which is which?There are some Hukums which are neither.

u should look for prasanta or tadna in first two lines of the shabad .

for eg the sahabad " todi mahalla panjava , har bisrat sada khuari , ta ko dhokha kahan beape ja ko aut tuhari ..."

translation : 1st line : By forgetting God one gets " khuaar " . dunno wt khuaar means in english . but it means something like that that person is not respected in sachkhand or anywhere .

2nd line : those who have your support will not be fooled by others .

in the first line there is tadna , in 2nd line there is prasanta .

But still its a tadna wala hukam . so u should usually look in first two lines . if in first two lines there is prasanta , the whole shabad is prasanta even though there might be tadna later on in the shabad . but still its prsanta .

so always look in first two lines .

i can't explain any better . sometimes there s a inside feeling which tells u abt it . if u know that u made a mistake and u know guru ji might be angry with u , do nimrata sahit ardas to guru ji .

sometimes guru ji can forgive us and give us prasanta . and we should be thankful to guru ji for tht , and stop doing such mistakes in future .

i do mistakes all the time . and then i feel shameful even standing before Him .

I sometimes think that i make so many mistakes and guru ji still gives me more chances to improve . but i keep on making them . when am i going to stop . ( dhil in rehat , not waking up , not doing nitnem in time , kaami thoughts , krodh , attachment . etc etc etc list is endless , keeps on going ...... ) oh i m going off the track

hope i made some sense

wjkk wjkf

[ssinghuk]

The author of the anand chamatkar ( hajoori raagi of baba nand singhji ) mentions that he himself is not sure about the maryada of saying these numbers . But the author thinks that it might have been that when baba ji wanted to stop listening the path , he would know where he stopped and next time start listening from that astpadi . This is authors opinion .

There could be some other reasons as well but who knows .

A sampat sukhmani path = 2 sukhmani paths without sampat

wjkk wjkf

Thanks!

[samosasingh]

But the thing is that same shabad above can be taken in a different i.e if you are with Guru Granth Sahib than you are not going to get "Khuaree" as you have taken the shelter of the Guru and no bad can happen to you i.e "Dhokhaa"

[karmjeet]

ya , ths right .

i am myself not really clear abt how to know if a hukam is prasanta or tadna.

becus i dun t have kamai .

i guess true gursikhs should know the answer to this.

[jathedar]

okay i do not want to sound harsh here, some of the above explaination about prasanta(happiness?) or tadna(no idea what does that means) is sounding ridiculous to me.

Also someone wrote he/she does not knows meaning of khuaar = ruined.

coming back to topic here. The hukamnama should not be taken the way you guys are doing it. The guru's hukum is atal if you do not get it your problem. sit down and try to understand it, do not rush , patience is the key.

Guru's hukum always bring peace and happiness maybe you do not see it immidiately. Maybe you do not want to hear what guru has to say. Also note that if hukum is of happiness it DOES NOT means guru is happy to solve your problems. Read the hidden message in whole verse. It might be saying you IF YOU MEDITATE all your problems would be solved. Taking hukum second time is okay incase you do not understand first hukum properly even after few tries.

hope that helps but again i'm assuming alot of things in this post. would be good idea if someone please translate tadna and prasanta in english!!

[karmjeet]

Prasanta : When teacher sees that his student is doing his homework regularly and getting good marks in test and exams , and doing whatever he says , he is happy with his student . Similarly , in school of sikhi when we follow the teachings of our guru that means that our Guru is happy and doing kirpa on us .

Tadna : it doesn't mean that Guru ji hates you or something but its in a different tone .

For eg . Although a father may love his son very dearly but to stop him from going in wrong path he sometimes scold him .

Similarly , our Guru is our father .

I would interpret these hukams on two viewpoints .

First , they would help me in recognising my performance in this school of sikhi . Spiritual Performance . Salvation

Secondly , on the worldly basis , I would ask Guru ji whether to do certain tasks or make some decisions etc .

There is no doubt that Spiritual performace is of utmost importance . But i wouldn't hesitate to take help from my father ( GURU JI) if I need to in these worldly tasks . It might sound selfish but for now thts how it goes for me .

wjkk wjkf

[jathedar]

thanks for explaination karamjeet. i've no problem asking help from guruji for anything. Thats his job and our job is to ask. But the whole process of taking hukum until you get prasanta vaak is fooling your own self. Whats the whole point anyways then? you're already determined to get some happiness from guru sahib so lets not take hukum at all and just pray that guruji plz take care of your son. Thats all is needed.