taksal/budda dal- unbroken order going back to guru's time?

[Niranjana]

Kam - your pionts are valid insofar as addressing Nihang Niddar Singh's comments (which are motivated predominantly to favour the stance of the Buddha Dal and their incumbent leaders owing to personal ties with Baba Mohan Singh).

That this fine, however the point here is that the Damdami Taksal is not a sampradha or jatha or institution founded by Guru Gobind Singh or for that matter are any of the others (since the Buddha Dal was only formed in 1734, i.e. years after 1708).

[Kam1825]

Niranjana i totally agrre with you with regards to the institurtion. I believe their are only four sampardas in the nihangs, udasis, nirmalas, sewapanthis were instututions at the time of the Guru, I just say that the university of taksal is from that time and has had heads which belong to different sampardas such as bhai mani singh sewapanthi, baba deep singh baba gurbachan singh baba gurbaksh singh all nihangs, baba harnam singh ji bedi from the udasi/bedi lineage and institution and baba bishan singh ji and baba sundar singh ji all nirmalas.

i am just saying that like every nirmals, udasi nihang sewapanthi lineage all can trace where they have come from just as i can trace my family background that is all.

i just state that the background on where taksal can trace back their university is not made up as many state by sant kartar singh. I love taksal as i do like all sampardas for the knowledge they provide for the sangat through the jewel of gurbani

[Xylitol]

Awesome post. One more (small) point. The Punjabi University, set up for preservation of the language, actually had its scholars taught the correct pronunciation of Punjabi by scholars from Damdami Taksaal. Another vote to Taksaal's lineage.

[Niranjana]

Xylitol, how exactly does the teaching of supposedly "correct pronunciation of Punjabi by scholars from Damdami Taksaal" become "nother vote to Taksaal's lineage"?

All it shows is the credentials of the Taksal and its skill base nothing about it being an institution set up by Guru Sahib.

[chatanga]

Niranjani tell what u know about the Baba Deep Singh sakhi plz.

[chatanga]

Kams points are written in Gurmukh Parkash, i have read them for myself, and also i have read the book by Dr Sher Singh, which i thought was untrue in some places. However what i coudnt find in Gurmukh Parkash was whether Sant Gurbachan Singh took Amrit from Budha Dal or from Sant Sundar Singh's jatha. I asked thgis question to Sant Gurbachan Singh's grandson, and he said he took amrit from Taksal, but on Niddar Singh's website, he states that he ttok it from Budha Dal, which he was a student of at one time, having previously studied under Udasi saints. Can you help in this Kam?

[Niranjana]

Chatanga,

In summary to your question about Baba Deep Singh, here is a brief chronological account, I’m sure you can follow up with further research to the extent needed.

1) 1746: First Holocaust (chota ghalughara) in which c. 10,000 Sikhs were massacred,

2) 1763: Major holocaust (wada ghalughara) in which c. 30,000 Sikhs lost their lives. Sikh women in particular displayed exemplary courage and bravery despite the cruelty and trauma they had suffered due to the oppression of the rulers during this particular Ghalughara.

3) Around this time, we hear of the Khalsa rescuing c. 2,200 kidnapped girls from the invading forces of Ahmed Shah Abdali, in retaliation for which he destroys the Harmandir Sahib filled up the sacred tank with carcases.

4) Baba Deep Singh along with local peasantry resisted the invaders and, in this battle at Amritsar (within the campus of the temple), he became Shaheed.

5) Bhai Mehtab Singh and Bhai Sukha Singh eventually kill their henchman, Massa Ranghar, who obtained control of the Harmandir Sahib subsequently. Bhai Sukha Singh later fell as a great Shaheed at a time when many other Sikhs had run into the mountains for cover – this is perhaps saved for another thread, however those currently reading Rattan Singh Bhangoo’s Panth Parkash will see many references to this under “Sakhi Bhai Sukha Singh Bahaduri ki†and others that follow thereafter.

As per particulars for point (4), as I said, the common story gets distorted incredibly in today’s English based literature, where everything from Baba Jee being assisted by local Peasantry becomes Baba Deep Singh “and his Army†and the major losses incurred by Baba Jee and his men are miraculously described as “the Afghans fled in terrorâ€. The reality is quite simple, Baba Jee is a plain and simple Hero beyond all doubts, because of his actions of those of a classic Hero: rallying and arming the local lay peasantry (which included all manner of peoples, not just Sikhs) with effectively farming and carpentry tools (they were simple working class peasantry not trained warriors), stirring them with the spirit of the Guru and facing a fully trained and fully armed Army, that is, going to face the certainty of death is what makes the entire episode so amazing and remarkable.

Incidentally, on a note aside, I understand that at the site of the old fort graveyard of the family of Sardar Mangal Singh Ramgarhia there used to be several sepulchres commemorating many soldiers of the Misl in addition to which there also existed a tomb, erected by Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, in memory of Baba Deep Singh. Perhaps some of our heritage photographers and/or researchers can confirm if this memorial stone to Baba Jee is still place today (Freed, Amandeep…anyone?)

[Xylitol]

Fair enough, Niranjana. Your point is correct.

[Kam1825]

I am sorry Chatanga i have never really asked this question, i will ask Baba Avtar Singh Ji Badni Kalan Walae this year when they come. Can this not be found in the life of Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji written by Giani Kirpal SIngh Ji, I have not looked yet but will later.

[chatanga]

I ask ed this querstion to see whether Sant Gurbachan Singh really wa a jhatka eating, sukha drinkling Sikh as made out by Niddar Singh.