Abraham

[Guest Javanmard]

Well gurbani and Dara Shikoh disagree with you.

[Kam1825]

Cheers for the arrogance in your answer!!

Gurbani states that Jamdhoot and Dharam Raj are different people. Azrael is the Jamdhoot. The work done by Azrael and Dharam Raj are different. The quotes are from gurbani below;

Page 315 Sri GUru Granth Sahib Ji Page 315 gives an idea of the work done by the angel of death.

Azraa-eel, the Angel of Death, shall crush them like sesame seeds in the oil-press. ||27||

Page 38 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji shows the work done of the righteous judge.

The Righteous Judge of Dharma, by the Hukam of God's Command, sits and administers True Justice.

Please quote the passages of Gurbani that say that azrael and Dharam Raj are the same and do the same work. i am not familiar with the work of Dara Shikoh but am more interested in where Gurbani states that they are the same

[Guest Javanmard]

1.What's Dharamraj's real name? Yama.

2. What does Yama do? He's the harbringer of death and the judge. Not just judge Kam1825. The Jamdhoots or Yamadhuta are his servants.

3. So yes Yama-Dharmaraja is Azrael by simple logical consequence.

Your mistake is that you separate the two functions of Yama when in fact he has both.

As for my arrogance, read what ever you want in my posts.

[Matheen]

For what it's worth, Pir Suleman (from "the Suleman tapes - Rarasahib) mentions the same thing i.e. Yam took him to Azrael, who 'sentenced' him.

[Kam1825]

Now i understand, Cheers Javanmard

[Genie Singh]

ek mai jugat viah tin chella parvan ik sansari, ik bhandari, ik la devan (one mother, married to the world, 3 disciples present, 1 worldly, {referring to brahma, vishnu, shiva hindu trinity})...

aad aneel anaad anaahat jug jug ayko vays. ||29||

The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end. Throughout all the

ages, He is One and the Same. ||29||

aykaa maa-ee jugat vi-aa-ee tin chaylay parvaan.

The One Divine Mother conceived and gave birth to the three deities.

ik sansaaree ik bhandaaree ik laa-ay deebaan.

One, the Creator of the World; One, the Sustainer; and One, the Destroyer.

jiv tis bhaavai tivai chalaavai jiv hovai furmaan.

He makes things happen according to the Pleasure of His Will. Such is His Celestial

Order.

oh vaykhai onaa nadar na aavai bahutaa ayhu vidaan.

He watches over all, but none see Him. How wonderful this is!

aadays tisai aadays.

I bow to Him, I humbly bow

aad aneel anaad anaahat jug jug ayko vays. ||30||

The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end. Throughout all the

ages, He is One and the Same. ||30||

japji sahib guru nanak dev ji

There is one woman/mother, who is that woman/mother? That is maya (http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Maya).

When god .. his wife maya call her durga(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durga), bhagauti[generally same as chandi and durga the hindu godess on lion in punjabi known as shera wali mata - http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bhagauti referred in begining of ardas and dasam granth has different use], chandi(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandi).

Say maya/bhaguati/durga/chandi all the same thing [generally durga/bhagauti/chandi are separate as maya comes from gita and chandi so forth mythology comes from the puranas].

Call her kudrat(nature / mother nature)/firti/ all the same. In the begining where 3 disciples, 1 sansari the one who gave birth to the world (sansar) who is Brahm (Brahma) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma brahma is in vedas and puranas and is the known as the writer of the vedas) as the speaker says brahma is known by muslims as Jabril [who is further known by christians and jews as Gabriel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel- Jibrial is the one who revelled the quran to prophet muhammad delivered the message of God through that angel].

And one sustainer (bhandari also known as Vishnu in hinduism who takes many popular incarnations on earth as a human one the most popularist is Krishna, some other would be Ram Chander, Vasudeva). Who the congregation we call Vishnu who muslim calls Israfil/Israafiyl (Judeo-Christian Raphael) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israfel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_(archangel)].

And one destroyed Shiva (in punjabi known as Shivji) who muslims call Azraeel Adhan (azraeel is the angel of death mentioned in islam; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azrael the terms appears in haddith when prophet muhammad was on his last days people saw the angel of death come and many times in gurbani).

Repeats again one creator, one presevor and one destroyer. As God wants he does not in accordance with what the devas want. The devas (or as he says angels) do as God wills them to do. God watches them. God watches the creation (world), they work for him. One who sits in maya (materilism) will not see God.

Guru Nanak relised this so praises are sang to God "I bow to Him, I humbly bow.".

In essence he mentioned three angels of Islam one who delivered Islam to the prophet, and finally the angel who took the prophets soul.

Well Guru Nanak theology was universal so it worked for Islam and Hinduism, so the perspective from Islam of the begining protection and end.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However there is a difference between the idea of Vishnu and Rapheel .

Raphael in Islam

Raphael is honored in Islam as one of the great archangels. According to the hadith, Raphael is the angel responsible for signaling the coming of Judgment Day by blowing the trumpet (namely Sûr). According to tradition, the trumpet will be blown two times. The first blow of the trumpet will signal the beginning of Last Day and the second blow will signal the time when all the souls will be gathered for the Last Judgement.

He is known more commonly as "Israphael" in Islamic history. According to the Quran, he has been holding his breath, waiting for Allah's order to blow the Sûr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu

Krishna is shown with the horn:

Where did this guy even get what he said is what I wonder where does such a katha come from Dara Shikoh says "Duration and Destruction. Then he goes on to compare Brahma, Vishnu and Mahishvara with Jibrail, Mika'il and Israfil. He says that Brahma or Jibra'il is the (Superintending angel) of Creation; Vishnu or Mika'il is the angel of Duration (or Existence) and Mahishwara or Israfil is the angel of Destruction. Dara Shikoh further says that water, wind and fire are also allied with these angels. Thus water goes with Jibra'il, fire with Mika'il and air with Israfil. Similarly Brahma is water, Vishnu is fire and Maheshwara is air." http://www.salagram.net/InterFaith.html

See this as well http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~rtavakol/engineer/oceans.htm

My guess is this kathavachak misquote dara shikoh's works or heard it and so forth no one would bother to double check this stuff.

Edited September 25, 2011 by JatherdarSahib

[Genie Singh]

Before Abraham was vedism.. throughout the world. Zorostrainsim different forms of hinduism. Mandirs everywhere. Egyptiainism. Plato-ism aristotlism. So forth Science was far at that time as well.. Yoga-ism... Abraham has taken ideas of his time into his religion.