The British Government Helped 'free' The Harimandir In 1984?

[Jonny101]

FYI, India was first attacked in 652, and largely remained HINDU, guru Nanak himself was born in 1469, and had Hindus not fought to remain HINDU , they all would have been Muslims by the time Nanak was born and he would have been born a HINDU!

It was Hindus who fought like lions against Muslim rule for. 100s of yeRs before the Khalsa was formed , and even then it was made up of HINDU punjabis son!

It was HINDU Marathas who helped clear up and rebuild the HARIMANDIR after it was desecrated by Ahmed shah abdali!

Dying for our dheen sharan is a part of our tradition u lot have just started to learn!

Bhindrawala was a joke a coward who thought that by hiding in the HARIMANDIR and behind worshippers he would escape death, man got shot down like a gutter dog

what an embellished view of history you have. Punjabi Hindus were humiliated repeatedly by the Muslims. It took the Dalit Marathas to liberate much of central India. And when did they clear Darbar Sahib? stop these lies.

Whenever Muslims invaded India not one Hindu stayed back in the Mandirs to die for his Bhagawan. It was common place for Muslims to destroy the moorties and use them as stone tiles in their Masjit. Hindu women were the biggest victims of Hindu cowardice. So many Lakhs of Hindu women were taken and sold into slavery by the Muslims. It took the Sikhs to save them and give a befitting reply to the Muslims. But the ungrateful Hindus who instead of thanking the Sikhs for this, payed us back by raping our women in 1984 and attacking Darbar Sahib.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Jonny101

[Jonny101]

At least HSD1 seems human and I can debate the guy. Johnny ur just crazy!

Dalit Marathas? Ouch how racist and caste ridden you are! For the record chattrapatti Shivaji was a high caste , not that it matters. Hinduism doesn't believe in caste see my quotes from Vedas and Gita in HINDU section.

The rest of ur post is SO MUCH GARBAGE IM NOT GOING TO BOTHER ADDDRESSING IT, it's Saturday and I got better things to do!

It's full if lies made up fairy stories and accusations with no proof, the jealousy and hate you towards Hindus is eating you alive!

Paath kar paath then

Read a book son

Shivaji was high caste? what are you smoking? he belonged to a low caste. Yet this brave Dalit showed Hindus how to live with honour. But how did Hindus repay him? when Shiva Jee was going to be crowed as King as per Vedic rights, he asked the Maratha Brahmins to perform Hindu rituals. The Maratha Brahmins refused saying he is a low caste and so they will perform vedic rights on him. Shiva Jee then had to bring and pay Brahmins from UP to perform the Vedic rituals.

Castism is one of the corner stones of Hinduism. It was has been there for thousands of years. Look how high caste Hindus would mistreat Dalits for thousands of years. Even apartheid was not this oppressive.

[HSD1]

That BBC documentary painted Sikhs as aggressors. It wouldnt make sense for them to talk about the Sikh community in Lahore as anyone with a brain would conclude that 'Sikhs attacked in Lahore -> Sikhs in East Punjab attacked Muslims'. That's not the image the BBC wanted to give. Sikhs have always been and always will be seen as those who ruined the break up of India. The documentary also had interviews with Sikhs who used to live in Lahore! How much more in La-La Land can you get? Why didnt the documentary tell the truth about Montbatten either? His demands for the RAF and IAF to carpet bombs Sikh towns and villages? His demands for the army to deport the Sikhs from East Punjab to Central India? Because it's British propaganda - telling the world that the Sikhs were the biggest losers of Partition is not how they want to spin things.

I said Indian. Stop twisting to hide your racist skin.

LIke I said, that directory is not comprehensive. Only a HP would be dumb enough to pay a Sardar to get their name and company in a book that only dumbasses like you would buy.

I dont believe in triumphalism either - I take no pride in the grooming of Hindu girls and the inability of their loved ones to help them. Not all of us of South Asian heritage suffer from a uber case of schadenfreude, unlike many people back home.

I also never said that Badal wasnt a Sikh, In fact I said he is a Sikh. Again you are seeing what you want to see rather than seeing what is right in front of your eyes. I just said that because he is Sikh doesnt mean he acts in Sikh interests or that Sikh issues are automatically resolved. Schindler was a Nazi who saved lots of Jews - it didnt stop the Nazis carrying out the Holocaust. Obama is black - I guess there is no racism in the US then?

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Shivaji was high caste? what are you smoking? he belonged to a low caste. Yet this brave Dalit showed Hindus how to live with honour. But how did Hindus repay him? when Shiva Jee was going to be crowed as King as per Vedic rights, he asked the Maratha Brahmins to perform Hindu rituals. The Maratha Brahmins refused saying he is a low caste and so they will perform vedic rights on him. Shiva Jee then had to bring and pay Brahmins from UP to perform the Vedic rituals.

Castism is one of the corner stones of Hinduism. It was has been there for thousands of years. Look how high caste Hindus would mistreat Dalits for thousands of years. Even apartheid was not this oppressive.

Ram Chandra beheaded a dalit for meditating upon the lord. He promised that in his prolonged reign no parent would face the need of mourning a progeny. A Brahmin came to him weeping that his son had died. Wishing to see a cadaver, Ram Chandra reached the Brahmin's residence and perceived a Dalit contemplating the lord and reciting the Vedas. Enraged he beheaded the latter, and resurrected his suppliant's offspring. This tale was employed as an excuse to persecute Dalits for thousands of years.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

what an embellished view of history you have. Punjabi Hindus were humiliated repeatedly by the Muslims. It took the Dalit Marathas to liberate much of central India. And when did they clear Darbar Sahib? stop these lies.

Whenever Muslims invaded India not one Hindu stayed back in the Mandirs to die for his Bhagawan. It was common place for Muslims to destroy the moorties and use them as stone tiles in their Masjit. Hindu women were the biggest victims of Hindu cowardice. So many Lakhs of Hindu women were taken and sold into slavery by the Muslims. It took the Sikhs to save them and give a befitting reply to the Muslims. But the ungrateful Hindus who instead of thanking the Sikhs for this, payed us back by raping our women in 1984 and attacking Darbar Sahib.

I got this from Tisarpanth, the admin's sources are listed blow on the link:

The commencement of the so-called Islamic expansion, or Arab colonialism catalyzed in extremely bloodthirsty massacres, pillaging and destruction of extensive non-Islamic civilizations, all justified of course by the ambiguity prevalent in the Koran. Apologists have commenced to birth a list of intensively pacifying verses from the Koran rebutting such facts, and reiterate legends orbiting around a so-called golden and more tolerant Islam. The myth however bears it's own stigma and is highly fallacious especially regarding the amount of archaeological and historical evidence present pertaining to the contrary. The Koran itself is divided into dual components, with the earlier being the 'Meccan Sura' which contains a majority of verses (including the 'golden' verses) which were abrogated in favor of the more stratifying and bloody 'Medinian Surra' and it's components. As per the latter idolaters, non-muslims and any individual suspected of being against the Islamic creed are deserving of execution and have no right to reside. These later doctrines formed the nucleus of the Islamic agenda birthed for the exploitation and conquest of the Indian sub-continent, which at the conjuncture was home to more than one diverse spiritual tradition.

Masterminded by Hajjaj, the governor of Iraq, and his slavish commander Muhammad b. Qasim in A.D. 712, Qasim was instructed to first obtain Sind and 'bring destruction on the unbelievers... (and) to invite and induce (emphasis ours) toaccept (as per Islamic norms more by violence than rhetoric) the true creed, and belief in the unity of God... and whoever does not submit to Islam, treat him harshly and cause injury to him till he submits!'

'On the evidence of Baladhuri's account of the conquest of Sind, there were certainly massacres in the towns of Sind when the Arabs first arrived.'

-C.E. Bosworth.

After the conquest of the trading nucleus, port Debal, Qasim and his fanatics indulged in the massacre of the captured civilians over the course of three days. Subsequently he became more lenient towards a few individuals in the imprisoned populace even allowing them to practice their rituals, this however rankled Hajjaj's sense of faith, and he dispatched an immediate message to Qasim reminding him of his honor-bound duty as an adherent of Islam.

'My dear cousin I have received your life-augmenting letter. On it's receipt my gladness and joy knew no bounds. It increased my pride and glory to the highest degree. It appears from your letter that all the rules made by you for the comfort and convenience of your men are strictly in accordance with religious law (emphasis ours). But the way of granting pardon prescribed by the law (the 'Sharia') is different from the one adopted by you, for you go on giving pardon to everybody high or low, without any discretion between a friend and foe. The Great God says in the Koran (47,4): "O true believers, when you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads!" (emphasis ours). The command of the great God is a great command and must be respected and followed. You should not be fond of showing mercy, as to nullify the virtue of the act. Henceforth grant pardon to no one of the enemy and spare none of them, or else all will consider you a weakminded man. Concluded with compliments. Written by Nafia in the year ninety three.'

-Hajjaj to Muhammad b. Qasim.

True to a fault, Qasim ordered the slaughter of all male individuals in his subsequent actions, whilst capturing their women and children as slaves. The real conquest, and subsequent arrival of the Turks (term used in Punjab to refer to individuals of Islamic origin) commenced with the arrival of the Turco-Afghan dynasty, headed by Mahmud of Ghazni, in A.D. 1,000. Commencing a bloody campaign of psychopathic slaughter left and right, Mahmud was an extensively delusional individual feeding on Koranic norms. He vowed to eradicate all idolaters and birth a series of 'Jihads' (or holy wars) to annihilate the infidel.

'Mahmud was a zealous muslim (emphasis ours) of the ferocious type then prevalent, who felt it to be a duty as well as pleasure to slay idolaters. He was also greedy of treasure and took good care to derive a handsome profit from his holy wars.'

-Vincent Smith.

As emphasized by Mahmud's personal media 'man:'

'Mahmud utterly ruined the prosperity of the country, and performed there wonderful feats, by which the Hindus became like atoms of dust scattered in all directions, and like a tale of old in the mouth of the people. Their scattered remains cherish, of course, the most inveterate aversion toward all muslims.'

-Alberuni.

Over the course of seventeen invasions Mahmud slaughtered more than an estimated 90-100,000 individuals and more in his religious crusade. Commencing with the conquest of King Jaipal of Punjab, he then proceeded to Multan in 1004 A.D. where after conquering the region of Ghur he forcibly had the indigenous residents converted to Islam. The Hindu temples of the sub-continent fell prey to his selfish depravity and perversion. He commenced an extensive desecration, destruction and looting of the said temples.

'Mathura, the holy city of Krishna, was the next victim. "In the middle of the city there was a temple larger and finer than the rest, which can neither be described nor painted" The Sultan (Mahmud) was of the opinion that 200 years would have been required to build it. The idols included "five of red gold, each five yards high," with eyes formed of priceless jewels. "The Sultan gave orders that all the temples should be burnt with naphtha and fire, and levelled with the ground." Thus perished works of art which must have been the noblest monuments of ancient India.'

-Vincent Smith.

Subsequently at the site of Somnath, in the aftermath of the battle, the autocratic tyrant Mahmud had 50,000 non-Islamic individuals slaughtered for his gratification. Despite Islamic historians and apologists veiling Mahmud's religious mania, and subsequent psychopathic tendencies, he was nothing more than an avaricious thug, given great precedent via religion.

Mahmud's trail of bloodshed found an able successor in the form of Firuz Shah, an able administrator and a liberal via many perspectives, the latter was a fanatical bigot in terms of Islamic dominance over non-Islamic cultures and faiths. Establishing the 'Sharia' and Koranic injunctures as his mainstay influences he commenced a wholesale venture in slavery, and forcibly proselytized 180,000 non-Islamic slaves into accepting Islam to preserve their lives. After commencing an intensive genocidal purge against the Shia sect prevalent in Islam, he executed a mass-scale agenda executing any muslim personage found in the midst of Hindu festivities. Even the latter class was not sheltered from his periodical spasms of religious wrath and witnessed it's temples and heritage being reduced to rubble. Being an able exploiter he increased the Islamic poll tax for non-adherents, and subsequently forced the latter into accepting Islam via bribery. The man literally believed he was a formidable symbol of Islam and had Hindus burnt alive for practicing their religious rites.

'Firuz Shah, when due allowance is made for his surroundings and education, could not have escaped from the theory and practice of religious intolerance. It was not possible for him to rise, as Akbar did, to the conception that the ruler of Hindustan should cherish all his subjects alike, whether muslim or Hindu, and allow every man absolute freedom, not only conscience but of public worship. The muslims of the fourteenth century were still dominated by the ideas current in the early days of Islam, and were convinced that the tolerance of idolatry was a sin (Hajjaj already proved his point prior to Mahmud).'

-Vincent Smith.

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/the-arrival-of-turks.html

And Morarji Desai still had the cheek to come to Darbar Sahib and say it's gold belonged to Somnath and should be returned. But of course EKOMKAR can easily employ his 'genuine trivia' to veil such incidents.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Amarjeet Singh_1737

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Due to the propaganda and hate campaigns carried out by the Indian media with Hindu backing, the Khalistan movement has been invariably presented in a negative manner to the general public of India and the rest of the world. The Indian agitprop against the Khalistan movement reached such heights that it essentially equates the movement with terrorism and fascism.

However, the facts of the matter speak differently, and as we shall analyze, evince that it is the Hindus themselves who are the true proponents of fascism. Rather than looking at the historical and political facts, the vast majority of Indian Hindus are impoliticly indoctrinated by their crooning government and fail to notice the gross human rights violations in Punjab and the suppression of the Sikhs. In this article, we present enough evidence to show that fascism is being widely practiced and propagated in certain circles of the Hindu elite.

Firstly, it would be beneficial to consider the definition of fascism and then establish whether the definition holds any ties with the Khalistan movement.

The Oxford English Dictionary provides two definitions of fascism. The first is:

1) An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

The above definition does not apply to Khalistanis since there is no Khalistan government or any social organization within the Sikh nation promoting right-wing ideology. The political system of dictatorship is opposed by the ideals of the Gurus. As advocated by the Sikh Gurus, the nation must be led by not one, but five leaders who are to be selected by the entire Sikh nation. This is democratic in nature. The second definition of fascism is:

2) In extended use: the advocacy of a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian.

From the very beginning, Sikhs have been a highly accepting and tolerant nation. Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji sacrificed his life for the sake of freedom of religion. He saved Hindus from being persecuted and forcibly converted to Islam. Sikhs, despite being strictly against idol worship, have never destroyed any Hindu temples. During the 18th century when many Hindus turned against the Sikhs, the latter never destroyed any Hindu religious place. Gurbani very eloquently preaches oneness of humanity and Sikhs adhere to these principles. Thus, it is both blasphemous and iniquitous to brand Sikhs as fascists. This labeling can only be attributed to the Hindu Indian government’s deep-set hatred and intolerance towards the Sikhs.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines fascism as follows:

a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.[ii] (bold ours)

The Sikh polity does not promote any ideology that fits the above description. On the contrary, Sikh history is testimonial to the fact that the Sikh nation has held no animosity towards any community. During the Misl period and the kingdom of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, non-Sikh subjects were treated on equal terms to Sikhs. Hindus and Muslims were given high ranking positions in government without any discrimination. Such was not the case in the Mughal Empire nor is it the same in India today.

Brahmanism – Hindu Fascism

What exactly is Brahmanism? Swami Dharma Theertha defines it as:

"Brahmanism is the name used by historians to denote the exploiters and their civilization. It may be defined as a system of socio-religious domination and exploitation of the Hindus based on caste, priestcraft and false philosophy, - caste representing the scheme of domination, priestcraft the means of exploitation, and false philosophy a justification of both caste and priestcraft."[iii]

In Brahmanism, Brahman (Hindu) priests are at the top of the order and everyone else is below them. The Brahmans are the rulers and leaders of the Hindu community. There is not a single event in a Hindu’s life that goes unchecked by the Brahmans. According to the caste system, the society is divided into four categories and the Brahmans preside over all of them. In the fourth category, at the bottom of the hierarchy, are the so-called Shudras who are the slave force of the Hindus. These so-called Shudras have no human rights and are considered inferior compared to all others in society. Swami Dharma Theertha notes:

"Kings as well as Brahmans were interested in keeping the people weak and submissive for exploitation. The caste system served effectively to divide them into groups and prevent their rising against oppressors. It was the most deadly weapon of imperialistic domination ever invented by the human brain."[iv]

Thus, Brahmanism is an exploitation system built upon the caste system that defines the social order of the Hindu society. The system, invented by the Brahmans who currently rule the Indian masses, is against the concept of freedom. Shudras have no right to excel in society, raise their social status, gain education, enter temples or inter-mingle with the upper castes. This leaves no doubt that Brahmanism, commonly known as Hinduism today, is nothing short of fascism in which: (i) a Brahman is the dictator and authoritarian leader; (ii) the caste system is the organized social system that promotes divisions and denies freedom to the majority of the Indian population; and (iii) is extremely intolerant of views opposed to its false beliefs. Unmistakably, it is a system full of discrimination, oppression and subjugation.

In words of Swami Dharma Theertha:

"In its details the Hindu social order is simply a menace to freedom, unity and peace."[v]

Therefore, India is not a democratic country since it is being ruled by those who know not of democracy, but only of dictatorship. Dharma Theertha further elaborates:

"Freedom with caste is a mockery."[vi]

It is the same caste system that was openly supported and sanctioned by Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, the itular “Mahatma”. He states:

"It will be a chaos if every day a Brahmin is to be changed into a Shudra and a Shudra is to be changed into a Brahmin. The caste system is a natural order of society. ... I am opposed to all those who are out to destroy the caste system."[vii]

The caste system was so grossly ingrained in him that he found the concept of equality abhorrent and alien. According to Gandhi, one’s profession was determined not by skills or qualifications, but by ancestry; through birth and was hereditary. He states:

"In accepting the fourfold division I am simply accepting the laws of Nature, taking for granted what is inherent in human nature and the law of heredity. ... [but] it is not possible in one birth entirely to undo the results of our past doings. ... So ugly did he find Western-style competition that he would prohibit anyone who acquired a skill other than his "hereditary" one from earning a living by the new one."[viii]

It is bitterly ironic that Hindus continue to label Khalistanis, who wish to establish a state of equality, as fascists, yet praise Gandhi, an advocate of an explicitly fascist caste system, as a “freedom fighter”.

It is the same caste system that is being advocated and supported by the current Indian government using the methods of reservation systems. According to this system, the so-called low castes have reserved seats in educational institutions and government grants available only to them. Everyone including the Sikhs who do not adhere to the caste system is required to report their caste name in order to determine whether they qualify for reserved seats or not. In this way, everyone is being forcibly coerced into the caste system.

This is not at an attempt to raise a person’s social status, as the Brahman regime claims, but rather an attempt to keep the entire nation within the confines of Hinduism thereby simultaneously safeguarding the caste system.

If it were not for this governmental system of social management, the suppressed low castes would leave the shackles of Hinduism behind and adopt other faiths like Sikhism in which they will be granted and assured of equal status in the social system. If this were to occur in reality, it would not only tear the fabric of the Hindu exploitation system apart but it would also increase the numbers of the Sikh minority. To ensure that this does not occur, the austere Brahmin regime employs the reservation system.

If the freedom of religion truly existed in India; for the purpose of the reservation systems only Hindus would be required to report their caste name and the separate identity of the Sikhs would be acknowledged. However, religious freedom does not exist in India, and the Sikhs are not officially recognized as a distinct nation and religion. This is another attempt of the fascist Brahmin regime to force the Sikhs back into the fold of Hinduism and compulsorily subvert the Sikhs identity, culture and religion. The Sikhs wish to destroy the shackles of slavery not only for themselves but also for the rest of the Indian population. Thus it is not coincidental that the Brahman Hindus are employing all means and methods at their disposal to brand Sikhs as terrorists.

India’s Freedom Fighters and the Nazis

Even before the independence of India, some of the Indian freedom movement leaders were eager to join forces with, and seek the assistance of, the Nazis to end the British rule. Perhaps the foremost example is that of Subash Chandar Bose. Due to his anti-British activities, Bose was put under house arrest, nevertheless he soon escaped in the guise of a pathan and traveled to Germany to seek alliance with Hitler.

In Germany, he met the higher officials of the Foreign Department and expressed his desire to form an 'Indian Government in Exile' and expected its immediate diplomatic recognition from the Axis Powers. He established himself as the leader of India and was so influenced by Nazi ideology that he adopted the title of “Netaji”, the Indian equivalent of "leader" or "Führer". Bose also desired to form an Indian Army consisting of Indian prisoners of war from North Africa. In the draft proposal of the same, he submitted the following recommendations:

a) The Axis Powers would sign a treaty with the ‘Free Indian Government in Exile’ guaranteeing India's independence from British rule once the war was won;
The Indian Army would consist of 50,000 soldiers of Indian origin;
c) After liberating India, Germany would hand over responsibility to the Government in Exile headed by Netaji himself.[ix]

In Berlin, he founded the Free India Center and created the Indian Legion by recruiting Indian prisoners of war. Its members swore the following allegiance to Hitler and Bose: "I swear by God this holy oath that I will obey the leader of the German race and state, Adolf Hitler, as the commander of the German armed forces in the fight for India, whose leader is Subhas Chandra Bose".[x]

Therefore, it is doubtless that Bose was heavily and insidiously involved with the fascist Nazi regime. The evidence presented above, absolutely clarifies that the Indian fanatics were leaving no stone unturned in their quest to free India from British rule. They were even willing and eager to ally with the cruel and oppressive Nazis. The precipitous hypocrisy of the Hindus is axiomatic in the fact that they, without a shred of evidence, malign the Khalistanis by branding them fascists, yet sing the praises of Nazi allies whom they adorn with the title of “freedom fighters”. If the Hindus truly hate fascism and reject it in its entirety then they should disown Bose and declare him a traitor.

Hindu Nazi Groups – RSS and its Families

One may very well wonder that in the modern world, India surely cannot be supporting fascism and concurrently advocating democracy. However, such questions and discussion are fruitless, because the fact of the matter is that India and Hindus are not what they portray themselves as to the world: there are many Hindu terrorist groups advocating far right-wing ideology in India. One of the largest, most nefarious and notorious is the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, popularly known as the RSS. It is an extremist militant group that promotes Hindu supremacy over the entire country. RSS was founded by a Brahman, Hedgewar, and most of its early theorists too were Brahmans and advocates of fascism. Furthermore, the RSS is overly ruled by the Brahmans who as described previously wish to keep Indian population at the fingertips to be used and exploited at will. Basu et al., state:

"The RSS, from its inception down to today, has been overwhelmingly middle class Brahmin or Bania in composition, drawn together on the basis of a far psychosis directed against other social groups: Muslims, most overtly, but by implication also lower caste Hindus."[xi]

RSS was started to militarize Hindus and promote Hindutva i.e. Hindu culture as supreme and possessing dominance over all minorities. Its branches are called shakhas and other affiliated groups like Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal etc. with similar ideology are referred to as “parivaar” or family.

The early RSS leaders kept personal contacts with fascist leaders such as Mussolini and Hitler. Marzia Casolari states:

"The interest of Indian Hindu nationalists in fascism and Mussolini must not be considered as dictated by an occasional curiosity, confined to a few individuals, rather, it should be considered as the culminating result of the attention that Hindu nationalists, especially in Maharashtra, focused on Italian dictatorship and its leader."[xii]

The first Hindu radical to become explicitly connected with rising fascism in Europe was Dr. B.S. Moonje who was Hedgewar's mentor and major influence[xiii]. On his return from a round table conference in 1931, he took a tour of Europe and made a long stop-over in Italy. There he visited some important military schools and educational institutions for the purpose of adopting the same methods to militarize the Hindus. The highlight of the visit was the meeting with Mussolini. Being much impressed by the organized military schools, he stated:

"Leaders should imitate the youth movement of Germany and the Balilla and Fascist organizations of Italy. I think they are eminently suited for introduction in India, adapting them to suit the special conditions. I have been very much impressed by these movements and I have seen their activities with my own eyes in all details."[xiv]

After returning to India, he spared no time in quickly getting to work and organizing Hindus on the lines of a fascist agenda. He found one such school, the RSS, as being most suitable for his plan. Relating fascism to the RSS, he states:

"The idea of fascism vividly brings out the conception of unity amongst people... India and particularly Hindu Indians need some such institution for the military regeneration of the Hindus: so that the artificial distinction so much emphasized by the British of martial and non–martial classes amongst the Hindus may disappear....Our institution of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh of Nagpur under Dr. Hedgewar is of this kind, though quite independently conceived. I will spend the rest of my life in developing and extending this Institution of Dr. Hedgewar all throughout Maharashtra and other provinces."[xv]

Commenting on the purpose of the physical training provided by the RSS, Moonje states:

"This training is meant for qualifying and fitting our boys for the game of killing masses of men with the ambition of winning victory with the best possible causalities of dead and wounded while causing the utmost possible to the adversary".[xvi] (bold ours)

Thus, Moonje played a crucial role in molding the RSS along fascist lines.[xvii]

As explained in the definition provided at the beginning of the article, fascism is completely in opposition to democracy and advocates dictatorship. A single dictator’s whims are considered more useful and more binding to an entire nation than those of separate democratic institutions. This framework proves to be an almost exact fit for the RSS: the successor is decided solely at the discretion of the current leader, and a voting system in the organization is totally nonexistent. Its organization is entirely dictatorial and built upon a fascist agenda. Describing the organization’s structure of RSS, Basu et al. state:

"A meeting of prominent RSS workers at Nagpur on 9-10 November 1929 decided to formalize the institutional structure. The key principle adopted was that of ek chalak annuvartita (following one leader), and, as proposed by Appaji Joshi, Hedgewar was chosen as sarsanghchalak, supreme director on a life-time basis. Thus the RSS decided to avoid internal democracy, and opted for a totally centralized command structure, which Hedgewar would be free to expand and elaborate as and when required."[xviii] (ours).

Therefore, the RSS leadership is entirely dictatorial with the current leader personally appointing his successor. Andersen & Damle explain:

"The RSS has experienced no major succession crisis probably because swayamsevaks believe that a sarsanghchalak has the right to choose his successor. Golwalkar was announced to be Hedgewar's choice as the next sarsanghchalak….Golwalkar's successor was also accepted with little overt opposition."[xix]

The leader makes all the rules and whatever he says is obeyed by the members. The members are not encouraged to read, advance their mental thinking, or to question the leadership. They are expected to obey like servants and never to utter a word. The members are provided physical training in order to defend themselves from the “minority threat” and “protect” the Hindus from minority attacks. Hindutva is not the majority voice within democratic parameters but rather the majority voice of the Hindu population. Basu et al. differentiating RSS ideology from democracy explain:

"In democracy, however, no majority is ever assumed to be permanent, or based on a single unchanging identity alone: a majority is constructed from issue to issue and can change from programme to programme. The majority that Hindutva claims to represent, on the other hand, is by definition, permanent, for it is constituted solely by the fact that 85 percent of the population are, by census statistics, Hindu."[xx]

The main goal of the RSS is to exert the superiority of the Hindu majority over the entire nation. They mean to achieve this by denying minority rights and assimilating other religions into Hinduism to the extent that any other unique religious identity is subverted or forever made subservient to the Hindu rule:

"The notion of Hindu culture that is propagated in its (RSS) shakhas is a definition of a majoritarian and authoritarian rashtra where Hindus, under RSS direction, will lay down the rules by which the minorities must abide. Its version of Hindu culture is inextricably mingled with antagonism against the non-Hindu."[xxi]

The RSS seeks to promote nationalism on communal lines. According to communalism, the interests of society as a whole are neglected in favor of only the interests of the majority community.

The RSS advocates a form of Hindu nationalism, which seeks to establish India as a Hindu Rashtra (Hindu Nation), and rejects the notion of a composite Indian identity brought about by a synthesis of different cultures and faiths.[xxii]

RSS members are regularly brainwashed with the often repeated tutelage that non-Hindus must be assimilated into the Hindu way of life.[xxiii] Furthermore, the RSS training exercise ends with the authoritarian nationalist slogan, 'Hindustan Hindu Ka, nahi kisi ke baap Ka’[xxiv] (India belongs to Hindus and not to anyone’s father). The slogan makes it explicitly clear that India is a Hindu country and does not belong to anyone else be it Sikhs, Muslims, or Christians. This is comparable to Nazis claiming Germany to be exclusively for Germans where there is no place for Jews.

.Thus, according to the ideology of the RSS, all non-Hindus are traitors of India and must either be wiped off or forced to submit to the Hindu rule. Drawing inspiration from the Nazis, Golwalkar (the second RSS leader) states:

"To keep up the purity of the Race and its culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races—the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here. Germany has also shown how well-nigh impossible it is for Races and cultures, having differences going to the root, to be assimilated into one united whole, a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by."[xxv]

He then proceeds to spell out the Indian implications of what he had learnt from Nazism with enviable clarity:

"From this standpoint sanctioned by the experience of shrewd old nations, the non-Hindu people in Hindustan must either adopt the Hindu culture and language, must learn to respect and revere Hindu religion, must entertain no idea but the glorification of the Hindu nation i.e. they must not only give up their attitude of intolerance and ingratitude towards this land and its age-long traditions, but must also cultivate the positive attitude of love and devotion instead; in one word, they must cease to be foreigners or may stay in the country wholly subordinated to the Hindu nation claiming nothing, deserving no privileges, far less any preferential treatment, not even citizen's rights."[xxvi]

All Muslims, in particular, are by definition traitors:

"They have also developed a feeling of identification with the enemies of this land. They look to some foreign lands as their holy places. They call themselves Sheikhs and Syeds ... They still think they have come here to conquer and establish their kingdoms. So we see that it is not merely a case of change of faith, but a change even in national identity. What else is it if not treason, to join the camp of the enemy leaving the mother nation in the lurch?"[xxvii]

It is noteworthy that the same statement by definition applies to the Sikhs since many Gurdwaras and holy sites fall far beyond India. Hence, Sikh holy places are not limited to few parts of India alone but many parts in foreign countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Bengal, Iran, Iraq, Tibet etc. are also equally important.

The CSHF report also finds the Hindutva movement comparable to that of the Nazis and seeking to destroy all other minorities in Indian society. They summarize as follows:

"The Hindutva movement is a violent sectarian movement seeking to create a Hindu Rashtra (an ethnically 'pure' Hindu Nation) in India, in many ways similar to the Nazi idea of a pure Aryan Germany. It seeks to exclude or eliminate religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians and fix Dalits and Adivasis into an internal hierarchy of caste."[xxviii] (bold ours)

One of the prominent personalities in the RSS was Savarkar who is attributed to the invention of the politically recognized definition of the term ‘Hindu’. Professing his support for fascism, he states:

"Who are we to dictate to Germany, Japan, or Russia, or Italy to choose a particular form of policy of government simply because we woo it out of academical attraction? Surely Hitler knows better than Pandit Nehru does what suits Germany best. The very fact that Germany or Italy has so wonderfully recovered and grown so powerful as never before at the touch of Nazi or Fascist magical wand is enough to prove that those political “isms” were the most congenial tonics their health demanded. India may choose or reject particular form of government, in accordance with her political requirements. But Pandit went out of his way when he took sides in the name of all Indians against Germany or Italy. Pandit Nehru might claim to express the Congress section in India at the most. But it should be made clear to the German, Italian, or Japanese public that crores of Hindu Sanghatanists in India whom neither Pandit Nehru nor the Congress represents, cherish no ill-will towards Germany or Italy or Japan or any other country in the world simply because they had chosen a form of government or constitutional policy which they though (sic) suited best and contributed most to their national solidarity and strength."[xxix]

Indeed, in speech after speech, Savarkar supported Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy, and, on October 14, 1938, he suggested the following solution for the Muslim problem in India:

"A Nation is formed by a majority living therein. What did the Jews do in Germany? They being in minority were driven out from Germany."[xxx]

In order to exterminate the Sikh minority, the RSS formed a specific sub-group named the Rashtriya Sikh Sangat. This sub-group is assigned the specific duty of systematically eradicating and disintegrating the Sikh nation and assimilating whatever remains into the folds of Hinduism. In order to ensure the success of their nefarious plan, to this date, they have already heavily infiltrated Sikh organizations and religious bodies. They wish to establish control over Sikh Gurdwaras and then introduce Hindu practices that will cause internal conflicts within the community. They have coaxed many sycophantic scholars from different universities in order to employ them to rewrite Sikh history according to Hindu ideology. These ostensible scholars are distorting the actual facts of Sikh history, manipulating school syllabi to teach students that Sikhs are in fact not a separate nation, and using the mass media to promote anti-Sikh attitudes. Such tactics even exceed the malevolence of those used by Nazis to exterminate the Jews.

Realizing this fact far ahead of his time, Swami Dharma Theertha predicted prior to Indian’s independence, that the Hindus, once free, will follow the example of Hitler and subjugate all non-Hindus. He states:

"Just as Hitler stopped at nothing, did not hesitate to adopt the most brutal methods to achieve his objects, people who think their so-called culture to be unique will, when they get power, use all means to preserve and propagate the injustices and atrocities which are masqueraded in the name of that culture. Give the Hindus independence and the necessary power, they will be as violent as imperialists, and as aggressive as other people, and in addition will do their utmost to propagate their caste culture and priestcraft, as “the unique Hindu civilisation.” All the arguments of the Bhagvad Gita and other sacred books will be used to justify bloody wars and the suppression of human rights. An independent and powerful Hindu India clinging to its caste culture will be a menace to civilisation and world peace."[xxxii]

Hence, the Sikh freedom struggle, or the Khalistan movement, has a twofold purpose: i) to ensure the survival of the Sikh religion and ii) as instructed by the Sikh Gurus, to uproot the injustice, oppression, suppression, and cruelty of a governing regime; in this instance; Hindu Nazism. By fighting an armed struggle against Hindu tyranny, the Sikhs are engaging in a pious and noble endeavor against Hindu terrorism in the Sikh homeland.

Some Methods of Suppression

It is beyond the scope of this article to discuss every method being employed by the Indian regime to suppress and exterminate the Sikh nation; however, it is important to highlight key points related to this matter for the readers to be fully aware of Indian fascism at work against the Sikhs.

1) Sikhs have been classified as Hindus in the Indian Constitution. This was done against the promises made by the Indian leaders prior to 1947. The Sikhs refused to sign the Constitution. Regardless, it was adopted by the Indian government. This was the first step to deny the Sikhs their naturally unique and distinct identity.

2) The Sikh quota in the army was significantly reduced from more than 20% to less than 2% in order to keep their armed strength under control. This is directly and inanely against the Constitution because if Sikhs are considered Hindus then there is no need to consider them a minority and restrict their enlistment along the same lines.

3) Sikhs are forced to register their marriage under Hindu Marriage Act. It is noteworthy, that the Sikhs had their separate marriage act during the British rule and they were allowed to register their marriages under the Anand Marriage Act. This was repealed by the Indian government when Hindus came into power. This was another step taken to further strengthen the Hindu stronghold on the Sikhs.

4) Ever since the independence of India, numerous Gurdwaras have been attacked by the government. Darbar Sahib, the holiest Sikh shrine, was attacked in 1955 and 1984. In 1984, the damage was equivalent to the one caused by Abdali, a foreign invader. The Indian army desecrated the holy place and engaged in a cold-blooded massacre of innocent Sikhs. In November 1984, Hindu hooligans carried out mass murder of the Sikhs throughout India in a most gruesome, despicable, and merciless manner for many days. Sikh women have been dishonored in police stations of Punjab from 1984-1995. Sri Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh Holy Scriptures) has been burnt and desecrated countless times. The perpetrators instead of being arrested for insulting the religion and hurting the religious sentiments of the Sikh community, have been provided with the highest level of Z+ security. Contrastingly, there has not been a single case of a Hindu temple being attacked, Hindu books being desecrated or Hindu women being dishonored. In other words, Hindus have not suffered the same fate which clearly proves our point that the government is deliberately targeting the Sikhs to suppress and destroy them.

5) The government and Hindu media has been advocating mockery of the Sikh identity in movies, television serials, and advertisements. This constant downplay of the Sikh image is attempted character assassination: by maligning the reputation and misrepresenting the ideals of Sikhi, the Hindu media and government seek to discourage the youth from adopting the Sikh religion. All these methods are being employed to achieve an objective: to degrade the Sikh’s religious and cultural morale, self-confidence, and pride.

6) Sikh history is being distorted and falsely presented in the books. Life events related to the Sikh Gurus are being given a distinctly Hindu flavor, and Sikh practices and Gurbani are being deliberately misinterpreted to make them in-line with Hinduism.

7) The government has deliberately taken away Punjab’s rights of water and electricity to economically cripple the Sikh majority state. Furthermore, Punjab has been flooded with liquor and intoxicants in order to break away the next generation from the ideals of Sikhism. No other state has been meted out the same treatment.

The above points make it clear that the Hindu government denied and continues to deny basic human rights and freedom of religion to the Sikh nation. Sir P. C. Ray says:

"Hinduism is only tolerant and catholic in mere empty words. In actual life it is rigid, cruel and repulsive."[xxxiii]

It is an undeniable fact that as long as Sikhs live in Hindu India, they will always be subjected to persecution, massacres, subjugation, slavery and barbarity. Our words are echoed by Swami Dharma Theertha when he writes:

"No other people deny justice and humanity to their own kith and kin, their own co-religionists and compatriots without rhyme or reason as the Hindus do even today.["xxxiv]

It is a noteworthy fact that not even on a single occasion in the entire history of India has the Hindu rule been beneficial or prosperous for the majority. Every single time, it was governed by Brahmanism and repeatedly committed the most heinous crimes against humanity.

The Hindu State was similarly an instrument for the preservation of the master-slave culture of Brahmanism. It existed not for the advancement of the Hindu peoples, but for their suppression and exploitation for the profit of the Brahmans and their partisans. Under the rule of the Hindu Rajas, the Hindu masses never prospered[xxxv]…. It has always existed for the profit of a small minority of high castes and the exploitation and suppression of the largest number. The scheme of Hindu life, social, religious and political, fundamentally remains what it was in the days of Manu when the people were nothing, the prince was little and the priest was everything.[xxxvi]

Overall, this article indubitably proves in reality that it is the Hindus who are the ones that deserve being branded and labeled as fascist, and not the Sikhs as is being falsely advocated by the Indian bureaucracy. By denying basic human rights and religious freedom to the Sikhs, India is unequivocally suppressing the Sikh nation and making every attempt to destroy this small community using the same methods that were once used to eradicate Buddhism from India. The outcome, however, will not be the same. Fascism once again shall perish and from its ashes will rise the Sikh state built upon the foundations of freedom, equality, and justice.

-Bijla Singh.

http://sikhfreedom.com/fascism.html

Notes and References

. "Fascism". Oxford Dictionaries. April 2010. Oxford Dictionaries. April 2010. Oxford University Press.
[ii]. “Fascism”. Merriam-Webster.com. 2012. Merriam-Webster. (December 19th, 2012).
[iii]. Dharma Theertha, Swami. The Menace of Hindu Imperialism, 2nd ed. (Lahore: Har Bhagwan | Happy Home Publication, 1946), PDF file, p. 7
[iv]. Ibid, p. 116
[v]. Ibid, p. 233
[vi]. Ibid, p. 309
[vii]. Ambedkar, B. R. What Congress and Gandhi Have Done to the Untouchables? (Delhi: Gautam Book Center, 2009). Print, p. 265.
[viii]. Gandhi, Mohandas Karamchand. The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, vol. XXIX. (Delhi: The Publications Division, Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Government of India, 1958-94), pp. 410f.
[ix]. Majumdar, Sisir. “Subhas Chandra Bose in Nazi Germany.” Revolutionary Democracy, Vol. VII, No. 1, April 2001: n. pag. Web. 19 Nov. 2012.
[x]. Thomson, Mike. Hitler's Secret Indian Army. BBC News, 23 Sep. 2004. Web. 19 Nov. 2012.
[xi]. Tapan Basu, Pradip Datta, Sumit Sarkar, Tanika Sarkar and Sambuddha Sen. Khaki Shorts and Saffron Flags: A Critique of the Hindu Right (New Delhi: Orient Longman, 1993), pp. 16-17.
[xii]. Casolari, Marzia. “Hindutva’s Foreign Tie-up in the 1930s”, Economic and Political Weekly
Vol. 35, No. 4 (Jan. 22-28, 2000), pp. 218-228:219. http://www.jstor.org/stable/4408848
[xiii]. Walter K. Andersen & Shridhar D. Damle, The Brotherhood in Saffron (New Delhi: Vistaar Publications, 1987). Print, p. 31
[xiv]. B.S. Moonje on the Round Table Conference, an interview in The Mahratta, April 12, 1931.
[xv]. Casolari, Marzia. Hindutva’s Fascist Heritage. Sabrang Communications & Publishing, March 2000. Web. 19 Nov. 2012.
[xvi]. Ibid.
[xvii]. Casolari, Marzia. “Hindutva’s Foreign Tie-up in the 1930s”, Economic and Political Weekly
Vol. 35, No. 4 (Jan. 22-28, 2000), pp. 218-228:220. http://www.jstor.org/stable/4408848
[xviii]. Basu, T. et al., Khaki Shorts, p. 21.
[xix]. Andersen & Damle, Brotherhood, p. 80
[xx]. Basu, T. et al., Khaki Shorts, p. 1
[xxi]. Ibid, p. 13
[xxii]. The Foreign Exchange of Hate Report. Sabrang Communications & Publishing, 2002. Web. 19 Nov. 2012. <http://www.stopfundinghate.org/sacw/index.html>
[xxiii]. Andersen & Damle, p. 95
[xxiv]. Basu, T. et al., Khaki Shorts, p. 38
[xxv]. Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar, We or Our Nationhood Defined (Nagpur: Bharat Publications, 1938), p. 27.
[xxvi]. Ibid, p. 52
[xxvii]. Golwalkar, 1966, p. 128
[xxviii]. The Foreign Exchange of Hate Report. Sabrang Communications & Publishing, 2002. Web. 19 Nov. 2012. <http://www.stopfundinghate.org/sacw/index.html>
[xxix]. Casolari, “Hindutva’s…”, p. 223.
[xxx]. Ibid.
[xxxi]. Dharma Theertha, Menace, p. 9
[xxxii]. Ibid, pp. 304-05
[xxxiii]. Dharma Theertha, Menace, p. 307
[xxxiv]. Dharma Theertha, Menace, p. 302
[xxxv]. Ibid, pp. 181-82
[xxxvi]. Ibid, p. 192

Brahman Imperialism knows no remorse. It is as cruel as ever. It would see its victims die under its weight rather than relax its deadly grip.[xxxi]

From evidence presented above, it is conclusive that the Brahman ruled RSS and affiliated groups including Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc. wish to make India an all Hindu country. In this country desired by the fascist Hindu organizations, the Hindu language and culture take precedence over everything else and cannot conflict with anything, be it constitution, freedom, or human rights. All minorities will either be crushed or forced to live in submission to please the majority Hindus.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Now as far as the above article is concerned, they give up their fascist standards, we come down from our horse. Period.

[HSD1]

HSD1, Lolz you crying bout the bbc documentary which interviewed Hindus sikhs and Muslims as well as the British! I never even mentioned who they said was to blame for partition, I clearly mentioned what the Muslims and Hindus on the show all agreed upon and is well documented!

Pre partition LAHORE, Muslims working class jobs, Hindus ran the big businesses and Sikhs did the agricultural work on the outskirts of LAHORE, that's why when the Hindus left almost last because of their businesses as shown on the show it hurt them so much , and the working classes were burning HINDU shops and businesses!

2. It hurts ur crooked who so much that in a SIKH CREATED ANNUAL directory , by sardar N S Shergill it clearly says that HINDU punjabis are doing the best in professional jobs and businesses abroad! You cry and say only. HINDU punjabi would be dumb enough to pay him? Well only a sikh like you would be dumb enough to believe he needed to be paid! He printed the names as per research , and was given very small fees! Just because ur little ego can't take it, u make silly excuses!

3. First u lie and boast bout HINDU girls going to gurdwaras instead of police Lolz for help due to grooming , them when I ask you to provide proof u back track ? We Hindus don't need sikh help for anything, we saved your women in 84 in Delhi but don't brag about it!

IT IS YOU THAT SEES WHAT HE Wants to see. , I have u bbc sources in which experts from all sides who know much more than you backed up what u say! I have the name of the directory and writer a sikh , to back up what I said!

You response ? Nothing just ur own boring weak rhetoric!

1. It never mentioned who was to blame. It implied it though. Stop obscuring the point.

Your lies about Lahore are ridiculous. The documentary proves nothing - just that muslims saw non-muslims as richer than them and had a chip on their shoulder about it. Just like Hindustanis felt annoyed by the wealth of the Sikh community that they seeked to demonise or belittle them. Just like the Nazis did to the Jews. Taking the words of the muslims and extrapolating all sorts of nonsense to make out that you guys had any kind of real power is ludicrous. The hindu middle class in Lahore was only there due to British patronage.

2. One minute you say I am stupid to believe he was paid, then you admit he took small fees. Lol, clear that egg off your face.

3. You cant save anyone's women, let alone your own. Hell, you gangrape your own. You guys are just angry about how big your egos are but how small your **** is.

4. Experts? A few interviews with survivors, editted to imply Sikhs messed it all up? That's propaganda. Just because a Sikh writes a directory, it isnt the same as a census or conclusive study. Go read a book on statistics or how to run a survey. It is you who is exaggerating a small list of piecemeal evidence that is completely unreliable. I also notice you havent been able to refute my links from before. Says it all really.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Amamdeep see my posts in HINDU section re Vedas and hiyas which blows ur caste argument out if the water, also see above !

2. I see you quoted Bijla Singh as a source Lolz that guy got destroyed on a blog called sikh myths by a friend of mine a few years back, 2011. He got taught history , Lolz ask him bout it

3. Ur quoting secondary Muslim sources re the invasions and massacres? I can quote ten times as much from VOICE OF INDIA books by such greats as Sit Ram Goel, Ram Swarup, Koenraaf Elst that wud rip ur cut and pastes up!

Whatever the Muslims did, when all was said and done , India in 1947 remained over 84% HINDU. We were attacked for a 1000 years but remained HINDU, only 14% was Muslim! That wasn't an easy task but we did it!

Ps You and others talk about Khalistan blah blah? Well it certainly will never happen in India, but if any of you want it come try and get it!

The fact that you get my name wrong and stick to pro-nationalist sources indicates an ardent inferiority complex present in your psychological verbatim. Your post regarding the Guru's caste is efficiently answered by the fact that it is your perception that they practised caste by ensuring what you define as a stratified hegemony. Yet again they were willing to encapsulate the works of many so called low caste individuals and amalgamate it with their own. We can clearly see the conclusive say on caste, when Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself declared that the prior alienations of varna had been reduced by the manifestation of the Khalsa, which mixed all castes together irrespective of karma, status and and any esoteric state. The pure Panth, the Khalsa has came into being, that glorious Panth with four castes. (Sri Sarbloh Granth, pg. 496). Again if you were to read the Gita by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, you would see that Krishna himself emphasized upon a hierarchical division where the Shudra was purported to be an intelligently inferior man to his superiors; due to his karma.

The Vedas classified every one into four castes. Ambedkar explained this thus;

1. According to the Brahmins, the Vedas have defined what is an ideal society and the Vedas being infallible, that is the only ideal society which man can accept.
2. The ideal society prescribed by the Vedas is known by the name Chaturvarna.
3. Such a society, according to the Vedas, must satisfy three conditions.
4. It must be composed of four classes, Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras.
5. The interrelations of these classes must be regulated by the principle of graded inequality. In other words, all these classes are not to be on equal level but to be one above the other, in point of status, rights and privileges.
6. The Brahmins were placed at the top; the Kshatriyas were placed below the Brahmins but above the Vaishyas; the Vaishyas were placed below the Kshatriyas but above the Shudras and the Shudras were placed the lowest of all
7. The third feature of Chaturvarna was that each class must engage itself in an occupation assigned to it. The Brahmins' occupation was to learn, teach and officiate at religious ceremonies. The Kshatriyas' occupation was to bear arms and to fight. The occupation of the Vaishyas was trade and business. The Shudras' occupation was to do menial service for all the three superior classes.
8. No class is to transgress and trench upon the occupation of the other classes.

At this stage Shudras still enjoyed some rights. The right to collect food from villagers, the right to collect corn from each villager at the harvest seasons and the right to appropriate the dead animals belonging to the villagers.

The Buddha’s Challenge to Caste

This period of Shudras came to a serious crisis, when Buddha began to reject the entire doctrine of the Veda’s and preached equality as against caste. It is one of the great events of human history when the people of most parts of India were converted to the preaching of Buddha, in his own lifetime. Later his teaching spread to most other neighbouring countries.

Ambedkar gives the following as a summary of Buddha’s teachings on caste:

"The Buddha opposed it root and branch. He was strongest opponent of caste and the earliest and staunchest upholder of equality. There is no argument in favour of caste and inequality which he did not refute. There were many Brahmins who challenged Buddha on this issue. But he silenced them completely. The story is told in the Assalayana-Sutta that once the Brahmins persuaded one of them, by name Assalayana, to go to the Buddha and controvert his views against caste and inequality.

Assalayana went to the Buddha and placed before him the case in favour of the superiority of the Brahmins. He said, "Brahmins maintain, Gautama, that only Brahmins form the superior class, all other classes being inferior; that only Brahmins form the white class, all other classes being black fellows; that purity resides in Brahmins alone and not in non Brahmins; and that only Brahmins are Brahma's legitimate sons, born from his mouth, offspring of his, creations of his, and his heirs. What does Gautama say hereon?" The Buddha's answer simply pulverised Assalayana. The Buddha said: "Assalayana, are not the Brahmin wives of Brahmins known to have their periods, and to conceive, and to lie and give birth? Notwithstanding this do Brahmins really maintain all what you have said though they are themselves born of women like everybody else?" Assalayan gave no answer.

The Buddha went further and asked Assalayana another question. "Suppose, Assalayana, a young noble consorts with a Brahmin maiden, what would be the issue? Will it be an animal or human being?" Again Assalayana gave no answer. "As to the possibility of moral development, is it only a Brahmin and not a man of the other three classes, who in this country, can develop in his heart the love that knows no hate or ill-will?" "No. All four classes can do it," replied Assalayana. "Assalayana! Have you ever heard," asked the Buddha, "that in the Yona and Kamboja countries and in other adjacent countries, there are only two classes, namely, masters and slaves, and that a master can become a slave and vice versa?" "Yes, I have heard so," replied Assalayana. "If your Chaturvarna is an ideal society, why is it not universal?" On none of these points was Assalayana able to defend his theory of caste and inequality. He was completely silenced. He ended by becoming a disciple of the Buddha.

A Brahmin by name Vasettha had embraced the religion of the Blessed Lord. The Brahmins used to abuse him for his conversion. One day he went to Buddha and disclosed to him what the Brahmins said of him. Then Vasettha said: "The Brahmins, Lord, say thus: 'Only a Brahmin is of the best social grade; other grades are low. Only a Brahmin is of a clear complexion; other complexions are swarthy. Only Brahmins are of pure breed; not they that are not of the Brahmins. Only Brahmins are genuine children of Brahma, born of his mouth, offspring of Brahma, created by Brahma, heirs of Brahma. As for you, you have renounced the best rank and have gone over to that low class, to the shaven recluses, to vulgar rich, to them of swarthy skins, to the foot-born descendants. Such a course is not good, such a course is not proper, even this, that you, having forsaken that upper class, should associate with an inferior class, to wit, with shaveling, fair folks, menials, swarthy of skin, the offspring of our kinsmen's heels. In these terms, Lord, do the Brahmins blame and revile me with characteristic abuse, copious, not at all stinted." "Surely, Vasettha," said the Buddha, "the Brahmins have quite forgotten the ancient lore when they say so. On the contrary, the wives of Brahmins, like all women of other classes, are seen to be with child, bringing forth and nursing children.

And yet it is these very womb-born Brahmins who say that Brahmins are genuine children of Brahma, born from his mouth; his offspring; his creation; and his heirs! By this they make a travesty of the nature of Brahma." Once the Brahmin Esukari went to the Buddha to argue with him three questions. The first question he raised related to the permanent division of occupations. In defense of the system he began by saying: "I have come to ask you a question. The Brahmins say they shall serve nobody because they stand above all.

Everyone else is born to serve them. "Service, Gautama, is divided into four - service of Brahmin, service of noble, service of a middle-class man, or by a peasant; while a peasant may be served only by a peasant, - for who else could?" What does the reverend Gautama say hereon?" The Buddha answered him by asking a question: "Is the whole world in accord with Brahmins in their fourfold division of service?" asked the Lord. "For myself, I neither assert that all service is to be rendered nor that all service is to be refused. If the service makes a man bad and not good, it should not be rendered; but if it makes him better and not bad, then it should be rendered. This is the guiding consideration which should decide the conduct alike of nobles, of Brahmins, of middle-class men and of peasants; each individual should refuse service which makes him bad and should accept only the service which makes him a better man."

The next question raised was by Esukari. "Why should ancestry and lineage not have a place in determining the status of a man?" To this question the Buddha replied thus: "As against pride of ancestry, the station into which a man happens to be born determines only his designation be it noble or Brahmin or middle-class or peasant. Even as a fire is called after the material out of which it is kindled, and may thus be called either a wood-fire, or a chip-fire, or a bracken-fire, or a cow dung fire, just in the same way the noble, transcendent doctrine, I aver, is the source of true wealth for every man, birth merely determining his designation in one of the four classes. Lineage does not enter into a man's being either good or bad: nor do good looks or wealth.

For, you will find a man of noble birth who is a murderer, a thief, a fornicator, a liar, a slanderer, a man of bitter tongue, a tattler, a covetous person, a man of rancour or of wrong views, and therefore I assert that noble birth does not make a good man. Or again you will find a man of noble birth who is innocent of all these vices; and, therefore, I assert that it is not lineage which makes a man bad." The third question which Esukari raised was with regard to the ways of earning a living assigned to each class. The Brahmin Esukari said to the Lord: "Brahmins give a fourfold assignment of income, from alms, for Brahmins; from his bow and arrows, for the noble; from ploughing and tending cattle, for the middle-class man; and for the peasant, by the carriage of crops on the pole slung over his shoulder. If anyone of these deserts his vocation for something else, he does what he should not do, not less than a guardian who appropriates what is not his. What does the reverend Gautama say on this?" "Is the whole world in accord with this Brahmin classification?" asked the Lord. "No," replied Esukari. To Vasettha he said: "What is important is high ideals and not noble birth. "No caste; no inequality; no superiority; no inferiority; all are equal. This is what he stood for. "Identify yourself with others. As they, so I. As I, so they," so said the Buddha."

- 'The Untouchables,' B.R. Ambedkar.

Now of course you can argue that Sikhs did not let Ambedkar enter their faith due to caste, but the doctor was a man who got to the root of the problem.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Amarjeet Singh_1737

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

1. It never mentioned who was to blame. It implied it though. Stop obscuring the point.

Your lies about Lahore are ridiculous. The documentary proves nothing - just that muslims saw non-muslims as richer than them and had a chip on their shoulder about it. Just like Hindustanis felt annoyed by the wealth of the Sikh community that they seeked to demonise or belittle them. Just like the Nazis did to the Jews. Taking the words of the muslims and extrapolating all sorts of nonsense to make out that you guys had any kind of real power is ludicrous. The hindu middle class in Lahore was only there due to British patronage.

2. One minute you say I am stupid to believe he was paid, then you admit he took small fees. Lol, clear that egg off your face.

3. You cant save anyone's women, let alone your own. Hell, you gangrape your own. You guys are just angry about how big your egos are but how small your **** is.

4. Experts? A few interviews with survivors, editted to imply Sikhs messed it all up? That's propaganda. Just because a Sikh writes a directory, it isnt the same as a census or conclusive study. Go read a book on statistics or how to run a survey. It is you who is exaggerating a small list of piecemeal evidence that is completely unreliable. I also notice you havent been able to refute my links from before. Says it all really.

What else does he really have to live on?

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Amarjit carry on cutting and pasting g that's all you have to live on!

Keep quoting from secondary sources say to what you think Hinduism is! Lolz

When u want the truth re caste go to HINDU section read the quotes from Vedas and Gita!

Better still read the Gita and Vedas ! U might learn real spirituality

Or maybe you had better take a plunge head first into your own spiritual canon rather than constructing a universe parallel to Final Fantasy. There is more reason to trust imminent men like Dr. Ambedkar who suffered at the hands of Vedic despotism, and fought to annihilate it, than so-called apologists.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Lolz u joker , u can't bear the truth from the primary source ie the Vedas or bhagvad Gita, which a normal historian or researcher would do instead you CHOOSE to read the book of so do d like Ambedkar who was anti HINDU, Lolz

Ps Ambedkar was anti sikh too, and said it was more caste ridden then Hinduism!

Read our holy boom quote the truth from there!

Ps no one reads ur long boring cut and pastes! Im pretty sure u do t either Lolz

No, no they stick to assertions made after a long dose of cow urine as prescribed by Vedic homoeopathy. I never denied any part on Ambedkar's anti-Sikh feelings but like I said he got to the bottom of the problem which commenced from Vedic despotism itself.

[Jonny101]

Amarjeet bro you have nailed it. But it seems the Punjabi hindus here are suffering from a severed case of learning disability. It happens to them because they being the most humiliated people for centuries even by Hindu standard. They begin to create fantasies about their imaginative past.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Jonny101

[HSD1]

HSD1, the fact you tried to demean the documentary by bringing the point about who was to blame, shows how insecure you are! READ the thread I never even mentioned that point!

I spoke of how it confirmed that us Hindus were the financial power house of LAHORE and Punjab as a whole, ur little ego couldn't take it, which shows how small the size of ur p.....s is! Ps what's the sudden obsession with P......s? U must be insecure in that department too Lolz

2. You look at the richest people in India, the sikh aren't even in the top 10, 20, 50!

3. You look at rich list of the UK, no sikh comes close to the HINDU MITTALS! Not even ur family, caste put together Lolz

4. You cry bout the fact that as you put it, Hindus must have paid to be in the directory wawawawah like a child! I said the directory was a researched piece of work to which Hindus had no problems contributing, we are used helping you sikhs monetarily and physically! As for egg on the face u got a dustbin sized piece of humble pie full of eggs and bacon and beans on ur face. Just read back on the thread!

5. U bring gang rapes into it how low! No it's u lot who gang rape ur women in Punjab, are famous worldwide for killing ur daughters at birth, it's so bad punjabis are begging for women from other states to come in! Sikhs have seining clubs all over Punjab the most in India swapping wives , it was all over the media last year !

We have female depictions of god, unlike u lot who wud never have a female guru!

6. Yes experts, interviews with people who lived and breathed in pre partition Punjab! And a directory circulating worldwide with a 300, 000 readership, is what I have! YOU THROUGHOUT PROVIDED NOTHING EXCEPT UR OWM BORING RUBBISH

If it was such a Hindu powerhouse why did Nehru give it away? He was secretly muslim? lol.

I know full well who were the two powers in Lahore back then. It sure as hell wasnt the Hindus.

2. The highest contributor in tax is a Sikh. They pay far more in tax than any other subdivision. Check that reference above.

3. Doesnt make up for the rest of you living in cow shit does it though?

4. It's a directory. Like a phone book. It's not a census or a study. How thick are you?

5. Indians are world renowned for their treatment of women. To pin it on Sikhs is laughable.

A god is female =/= sexual equality.

Schindler =/= Nazis are not mass murderers.

Badal =/= Sikhs are doing ok.

Obama =/= racial equality in the US.

Get it thicko?

6. Experts? Half a dozen witnesses? Interviewed by the British Propaganda Service? Your taking the mick.

300,000 readership? How many dozy Indians buy that crap? There are millions of Punjabis. Again phonebook =/= census. Got it?

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Lolz amarjeet just admitted Ambedkar said sikhs practice the exact same thing that he tried to use to bash Hindus over the head with ! Joker

Johnny is so confused and bewildered he's hanging on and saying paaji paaji to anyone who he thinks maybe taking his side! Lolz

Read back on the threads children you got destroyed!

Winners write history, Hindus of whatever background are a billion strong, with our own NATION, we don't need to beg the Brits for justice or anything else, we are on our way to becoming the fastest growing economic power in the world and every 5th person in the world is from our NATION, Bharat, Hindusthan, INDIA!

We talked history I just brought u up to speed with 2014!

Start playing catch up maybe u can build Khali isthan in Vancouver? Or Antartica you ain't getting it in Indian Punjab, where u will soon be a minority

Its ok if your delusion is increasing, again Ambedkar differentiated between Vedic thought and Gurmat. But of course because he was a dalit, you would probably say he had a grudge against Hindu Dharma and so vilified it. But..... it's ok, like Swami Prabhupada says; cow urine is a benefactory cure to a Hindu's tensions.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

If it was such a Hindu powerhouse why did Nehru give it away? He was secretly muslim? lol.

I know full well who were the two powers in Lahore back then. It sure as hell wasnt the Hindus.

2. The highest contributor in tax is a Sikh. They pay far more in tax than any other subdivision. Check that reference above.

3. Doesnt make up for the rest of you living in cow shit does it though?

4. It's a directory. Like a phone book. It's not a census or a study. How thick are you?

5. Indians are world renowned for their treatment of women. To pin it on Sikhs is laughable.

A god is female =/= sexual equality.

Schindler =/= Nazis are not mass murderers.

Badal =/= Sikhs are doing ok.

Obama =/= racial equality in the US.

Get it thicko?

6. Experts? Half a dozen witnesses? Interviewed by the British Propaganda Service? Your taking the mick.

300,000 readership? How many dozy Indians buy that crap? There are millions of Punjabis. Again phonebook =/= census. Got it?

Damn it HS, you just revealed a national secret. Nehru was a Muslim!!!! Gandhi was a Christian!!!! Everything else is all done by Pakistan and China. They just cannot tolerate Hindu unity.

[HSD1]

Well if they were so strong, why didnt they get Lahore? lol.

Just because you sucked up to the British to get your own country doesnt make you better than us. Just because we fell for your promises and lies does not make you better than us.

The only reason India is independant is due to Germany and Japan humiliating Britain during the Second World War. You honestly think the Brits would have left due to peaceful protests by that paedo Gandhi? lol.

To this day the British stitch up the subcontinent. Only a Hindustani would be so proud of how he still gets milked by his former colonial master for money and acceptance. Let them suck on your dirty titties. You deserve each other.

[HSD1]

HSD1, we don't like e in cow shit we live in our nation our homes, u lot live in our shit! Infact beg to stay there instead of Pakistan see sikhs in Pakistan begging to come to India, Lolz

No one said Nehru was a Muslim Amarjeets confused again must be the cut and pastes Lolz CONFUSING HIM LOLZ

GOID SIKHS SHUD PAY TAX, infact double as we r letting u live in our nation!

You hsd1 cudnt prove or take the fact that we HINDU PUNJABIS ARE MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN YOU HEY? Even tho written by a sikh!

Here the biggest proof 2014, Hindus have a NATION,billion strong , 2 ms fastest growing economic power in the world!

Sikhs got nothing .... Pick up the begging bowl fill it with donkey dung from the farms and wLk the streets of uk USA India begging

I've proved your evidence is inconsequential and statistically insignificant. Jumping up and down like a monkey wont change that.

[HSD1]

First War of Independance? How American of you. Cant you guys just be yourselves? Or is that so embaressing and just fuel your insecurity?

The Indian Mutiny was an attempt by dumb Hindus and Muslims to get the Mughals back in power. Is that what you wanted? One minute he talks about HIndu sovereignty, then he wants to be ruled by a sulleh rather than anyone else. These people are never happy.

The only one here who has drunk cow piss is probably you. Your evidence was contrived and easily refutable. My evidence was far less so. Hang on to your inflated superiority complex - you'll need it.

Edited January 19, 2014 by HSD1

[HSD1]

Just like the Marathas ruled over everyone and Hindustanis won independence by themselves? Keep your nation, it's a joke.

Rebels need no home or name.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

HSD1, we don't like e in cow shit we live in our nation our homes, u lot live in our shit! Infact beg to stay there instead of Pakistan see sikhs in Pakistan begging to come to India, Lolz

No one said Nehru was a Muslim Amarjeets confused again must be the cut and pastes Lolz CONFUSING HIM LOLZ

GOID SIKHS SHUD PAY TAX, infact double as we r letting u live in our nation!

You hsd1 cudnt prove or take the fact that we HINDU PUNJABIS ARE MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN YOU HEY? Even tho written by a sikh!

Here the biggest proof 2014, Hindus have a NATION,billion strong , 2 ms fastest growing economic power in the world!

Sikhs got nothing .... Pick up the begging bowl fill it with donkey dung from the farms and wLk the streets of uk USA India begging

Sarcasm truly is lost on your bullshit psyche isn't it.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Lolz a Brahmin mangal pander lead the war for independence and at the time , SIKH HELPED THE BRITISH - traitors!

Yes in the short term rather be ruled by someone of Indian origin than a white man, then deal with the Muslims later!

Looks like ur still on the donkey dung, shine it up real nice and stick it in ur mouth from where the rest of the dung comes from!

I beat u in the debate and now I go to bed in the firm knowledge thatI HAVE NY OWN NATION in 2014, with no one to beg for justice!

Ur like a stray dog no home, no name nothing

If I remember correctly Hindu Poorbias, Bengalis, Marathas and Rajputs played a pretty profound role in de-establishing the Khalsa regime in Punjab. Maybe the notion payback is a admin cut will help you learn why we did not support some over hyped killing orgy.

On the other hand a few months after the fall of the Sikh empire, Bhai Maharaj Singh pushed for an united India to oust the British. There was no ineptitude, as spread by Jaswant Rao Holakr, to hold such a notion back but yet again your proud Hindus did not lift one finger to join him. Again payback is a admin cut.

[Genie Singh]

What is wrong is that the British government helped the terrorists(the Indian army) in attacking the Sikhs in Harmandir Sahib. And for what crime could Indira legally hold Sant Bhindranwale? just because he is a Sikh he should be arrested for no reason? Hindus refusing to admit the terrorist attack on the Sikhs in Harmandir Sahib is the most disgraceful thing the Hindus can do. Even Muslims are better in the sense that atleast most of them admit that Aruangzeb was wrong in persecuting the Sikhs. But Hindus are to this day proud of there terrorism against the Sikhs.

Bhindranwale could have been charged with treason, high treason (Sedition). Or under Blasphemy Laws of India.

Since Hinduism, India's dominant religion, being polytheistic and pantheistic, did not have the concept of blasphemy,^[28][29] such laws are absent in tradition. In practice, however, blasphemy is classified as hate speech and prosecuted. In 1860, British rule codified Section 295A of the Indian Penal Code which punishes as hate speech insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of any citizen with deliberate and malicious intention to outrage their religious feelings. These laws are applied to all religions including Hinduism, Sikhism, Christianity and Islam.^[30]

Central Government Act Section 295A in The Indian Penal Code, 1860 295A. 5[ Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs.-- Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of 6[ citizens of India], 7[ by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise] insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to 8[ three years], or with fine, or with both.]

Thus, In India, it is blasphemy to criticise any and all religious or superstitious belief.

Edited January 19, 2014 by JatherdarSahib

[Singh123456777]

Its real funny how this ekomakar guy says he wants unity between both religions but all I read from him is either he says Sikhs are Hindus and 90% of sikhi is from Hinduism or he calls us losers and stray dogs.Wow what a hypocrit.From the first post he made I knew he was trying to rip sikhi apart.

Mods please shut this topic down cause sikhi is being made fun of,Sants are being called bad names,lies are being spread by our little Hindu friend etc.

[Genie Singh]

Its real funny how this ekomakar guy says he wants unity between both religions but all I read from him is either he says Sikhs are Hindus and 90% of sikhi is from Hinduism or he calls us losers and stray dogs.Wow what a hypocrit.From the first post he made I knew he was trying to rip sikhi apart.

Mods please shut this topic down cause sikhi is being made fun of,Sants are being called bad names,lies are being spread by our little Hindu friend etc.

I would like for him to have some continuous so that he can carry on reading the board and we can explore some of his ideas (god knows what our indian sikh brothers with low internet presence think). This idea of Sikhs being Hindus came from the Hindutva, Aryan Samaj right wing groups. Who feel that once Sikhs denounce their uniqueness, it's only a matter of time until they denounce their different outer appearance and embrace mainstream Hinduism. Had Sikhi truly been felt to be identical then we would have gurdwaras filled with many Hindus listening to gurbani and enjoying it's bliss.

This idea seems to have been borrowed from Muhammdens who like to use Sikhi's similarities as a conveyor belt to convert and in both instances this has worked.

Edited January 19, 2014 by JatherdarSahib