Bhagat Bani.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

I have a few questions regarding Gurbani i.e. specifically the Bani of the Bhagats or Bhagat Bani.

1.) As per Gurbani who is a Bhagat and who is a Guru?

2.) How do both inter-relate?

3.) Was Bhagat Bani edited by the Gurus? If so how and why?

[BhagatSingh]

1. Bhagat is a devotee. Guru is a teacher.

2. Guru is also a bhagat.

And if a bhagat has a following (like Kabir) then he is also a guru. So Bhagat Kabir can be called Guru Kabir if you follow his teachings.

If a bhagat has no following than he is an indirect guru because he guides simply through his patient and open demeanour in his interactions with others. But you wouldn't call him a guru.

3. No Bhagat Bani was not edited as per my knowledge. The bhagats and Gurus had the same beliefs and worldview. (That's why Guru Arjun Dev ji considered those bhagats in the first place)

On a different note, it's intriguing that Sheikh Farid's bani is always accompanied/explained by Guru Amardas' bani. He's the only Muslim in Guru Granth Sahib. I think Guru Arjun added his bani only because Guru Amardas had elaborated on it.

[dalsingh101]

No Bhagat Bani was not edited as per my knowledge.

I'd heard there was some minor differences with regional words/pronunciation between bhagat bani in SGGS ji and that in compilations like Bijak of Bhagat Kabir ji.

Can't remember where though?

[harsharan000]

I have a few questions regarding Gurbani i.e. specifically the Bani of the Bhagats or Bhagat Bani.

1.) As per Gurbani who is a Bhagat and who is a Guru?

Ans: In my humble opinion, in reference to those Bhagats mentioned in the SGGS Maharaj, are equal to the status of a Guru. Why? Because Guru, always is a dispeller of the darkness of ignorance within us, as Guru is also the embodiment of the Light of Wisdom and Truth. The role of the True Guru is to shed Light of Satpurkh, just like when we say Sun, automatically we know that the Sun, is the fountain of light, in the same way, Braham Gyanis, Gurmukhs, the Bhagats of SGGS, Guru Sahibans, Sant Janas, are different words, but reffering to the same meaning, for those who have attained union with Him or are in union with Him, it is our bad luck, that we do not have the eyes to see their real status, but thanks to Dhan Guru Sachay Patshah Arjun Dev Maharaj, today we know all this, because He has His spiritual vision open at all times.

2.) How do both inter-relate?

Ans: They both inter- relate, with the only one Truth, which is Satnam alone, through the Anhad Shabad.

3.) Was Bhagat Bani edited by the Gurus? If so how and why?

Ans: I personally do not think the Bani of the Bhagats was ever edited, what was there to be edited about? If throughout their Bani, there is only mahima of Naam and Satpurukh as there baselines, just as our Guru Sahibans.

Maybe for us people, we see different paths, dharams, religions.... but for all those who have realized the One Truth, there is only one path of devotion and love, through the bhakti of Naam, which transports us there, purifies us, and reunites us with Him, by merging our soul consciousness in Him.

Sat Sree Akal.

Edited August 31, 2014 by harsharan000

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Penji I would beg to differ from the editing question. According to many imminent scholars the Goindwal pothis etc all contain Shabads of the Bhagats which were not included in the AGGS by the 5th Guru. They also point out that most of these Shabads have commentaries aligned with them, written by the 3rd Guru, highlighting their efficiency/inefficiency.

[BhagatSingh]

I'd heard there was some minor differences with regional words/pronunciation between bhagat bani in SGGS ji and that in compilations like Bijak of Bhagat Kabir ji.

Can't remember where though?

Sure but the bani is not changed in a way to show different beliefs/message or not edited to change the beliefs/message of the original poet, as some would suggest.

[Lucky]

On a different note, it's intriguing that Sheikh Farid's bani is always accompanied/explained by Guru Amardas' bani. He's the only Muslim in Guru Granth Sahib. I think Guru Arjun added his bani only because Guru Amardas had elaborated on it.

That reminded me of

ang 1378

where Sheikh Farid is repenting in old age for not doing bhagti after wasting the years of youth

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਕਾਲੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਨ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਧਉਲੀ ਰਾਵੈ ਕੋਇ ॥

Farīḏā kālīʼn jinī na rāvi▫ā ḏẖa▫ulī rāvai ko▫e.

Fareed, those who did not enjoy their Spouse when their hair was black - hardly any of them enjoy Him when their hair turns grey.

ਕਰਿ ਸਾਂਈ ਸਿਉ ਪਿਰਹੜੀ ਰੰਗੁ ਨਵੇਲਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੨॥

Kar sāʼn▫ī si▫o pirhaṛī rang navelā ho▫e. ||12||

So be in love with the Lord, so that your color may ever be new. ||12||

Then Guru Amardas ji (also in old age) says ...''No, Farid, don’t say like this. The Lord is always merciful. Love is the gift which God has bestowed upon the mortals. Only he receives it to whom He gives.''.............

ਮਃ ੩ ॥

Mėhlā 3.

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਉਲੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਚਿਤਿ ਕਰੇ ॥

Farīḏā kālī ḏẖa▫ulī sāhib saḏā hai je ko cẖiṯ kare.

Fareed, whether one's hair is black or grey, our Lord and Master is always here if one remembers Him.

ਆਪਣਾ ਲਾਇਆ ਪਿਰਮੁ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਜੇ ਲੋਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥

Āpṇā lā▫i▫ā piram na lag▫ī je locẖai sabẖ ko▫e.

This loving devotion to the Lord does not come by one's own efforts, even though all may long for it.

ਏਹੁ ਪਿਰਮੁ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਜੈ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੈ ਦੇਇ ॥੧੩॥

Ėhu piram pi▫ālā kẖasam kā jai bẖāvai ṯai ḏe▫e. ||13||

This cup of loving devotion belongs to our Lord and Master; He gives it to whomever He likes. ||13||

Edited September 1, 2014 by Lucky

[harsharan000]

Penji I would beg to differ from the editing question.

Veer Jee,

thanks for your post, but I have to tell you, that for your kind information, I am not a Penjee, I am your PaaJee.

With all respect to womanhood and women, I am deeply grateful to Waheguru for making me as I am, as a man, with all that it implies

Sat Sree Akal

Edited September 1, 2014 by harsharan000

[BhagatSingh]

That reminded me of

ang 1378

where Sheikh Farid is repenting in old age for not doing bhagti after wasting the years of youth

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਕਾਲੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਨ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਧਉਲੀ ਰਾਵੈ ਕੋਇ ॥

Farīḏā kālīʼn jinī na rāvi▫ā ḏẖa▫ulī rāvai ko▫e.

Fareed, those who did not enjoy their Spouse when their hair was black - hardly any of them enjoy Him when their hair turns grey.

ਕਰਿ ਸਾਂਈ ਸਿਉ ਪਿਰਹੜੀ ਰੰਗੁ ਨਵੇਲਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੨॥

Kar sāʼn▫ī si▫o pirhaṛī rang navelā ho▫e. ||12||

So be in love with the Lord, so that your color may ever be new. ||12||

Then Guru Amardas ji (also in old age) says ...''No, Farid, don’t say like this. The Lord is always merciful. Love is the gift which God has bestowed upon the mortals. Only he receives it to whom He gives.''.............

ਮਃ ੩ ॥

Mėhlā 3.

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਉਲੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਚਿਤਿ ਕਰੇ ॥

Farīḏā kālī ḏẖa▫ulī sāhib saḏā hai je ko cẖiṯ kare.

Fareed, whether one's hair is black or grey, our Lord and Master is always here if one remembers Him.

ਆਪਣਾ ਲਾਇਆ ਪਿਰਮੁ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਜੇ ਲੋਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥

Āpṇā lā▫i▫ā piram na lag▫ī je locẖai sabẖ ko▫e.

This loving devotion to the Lord does not come by one's own efforts, even though all may long for it.

ਏਹੁ ਪਿਰਮੁ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਜੈ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੈ ਦੇਇ ॥੧੩॥

Ėhu piram pi▫ālā kẖasam kā jai bẖāvai ṯai ḏe▫e. ||13||

This cup of loving devotion belongs to our Lord and Master; He gives it to whomever He likes. ||13||

Thanks for sharing.

I don't think Sheikh Farid is repenting though. Where did you read that?

[BhagatSingh]

Veer Jee,

thanks for your post, but I have to tell you, that for your kind information, I am not a Penjee, I am your PaaJee.

With all respect to womanhood and women, I am deeply grateful to Waheguru for making me as I am, as a man, with all that it implies

Sat Sree Akal

Why did you feel the need to start with "With all respect to womanhood and women" in order to say "I am deeply grateful to Waheguru for making me as I am, as a man"?

How would it be disrespect to womanhood or women if you were grateful for being a man?

[harsharan000]

Why did you feel the need to start with "With all respect to womanhood and women" in order to say "I am deeply grateful to Waheguru for making me as I am, as a man"?

Because I don´t want to sound or be interpreted as a male chauvinist, by just expressing my feelings of satisfaction as being a man.

And I feel no need of any such thing of starting with... as you say, as there are no hard and fast rules in expressing one´s opinions. One is not always calculative as some may tend to be.

I also said, being a man with all that implies.

Means, I am conscious that neither a man or woman are perfect. But in this my case, I am satsified, as Wahiguru has made me, so it is just but natural to be thankful to Him

How would it be disrespect to womanhood or women if you were grateful for being a man?

Of course it should not be disrepectful, but who knows what can go in other´s minds? There are complicated minds .... who see things out of proportion . And not only woman can think otherwise with this my choice of opinion, but men also can think in that way , it is free world, one can think for oneself what is best, as long as one does not harm others .

Satisfied Veer Jee, or still some more questions?

Edited September 2, 2014 by harsharan000