Popular Post Ragmaala Posted July 28, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 The big question is can you change the future with Deb drishti? How many sants were able to predict events 1947 partitions and warned sikhs? How many predicted bluestar? How many 1984 riots ? Hardly any one was able to predict or save innocent lives.Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji knew about the massacre of partition that was going to happen. He asked God to delay it so that he did not have to witness it during his Earthly Period.The same story was cross-checked by Baba Harnam Singh Rampur Kheda who had a vision of Baba Nand Singh Ji delaying the events that were supposed to happen earlier than 1947. Baba Nand Singh Ji asked many devotees to move their lands from one area to current punjab or settle down somewhere else. Some of them listened and some of them did not. Sants never reveal the true plan of God. Even when they know the plan, they do not interfere a lot in the happenings. Guru ji was antaryami but he never revealed the incidents or changed the course of events. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsingh Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) This is my last post on this thread. First line says "ਸਾਹਾ ਗਣਹਿ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥". Guru Nanak starts of by saying: O Pandit, you make calculations (ਗਣਹਿ) to obtain an auspicious date for the wedding (ਸਾਹਾ), but you do not contemplate.Contemplate what? The answer is: ਸਾਹੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ - that God is above these auspicious days.The one who meets the Guru - ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ, realizes the (real) way (to ascertain auspicious days) - ਸੋਈ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਾਣੈ. How? By following Gurmat, one realizes Gods Will. ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਾਡੇ ਸਚੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥ - Pandit do not lie, speak the truth. Now it is clear from the context that the lie is about the calculations and auspicious dates. When egotism is removed with Shabd, then one finds his Home. (ਹਉਮੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਬਦਿ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥)Calculating and counting, the astrologer draws the horoscope. (ਗਣਿ ਗਣਿ ਜੋਤਕੁ ਕਾਂਡੀ ਕੀਨੀ ॥) He studies it and announces it, but he does not understand reality. ( ਪੜੈ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਚੀਨੀ ॥ ) The Word of the Guru's Shabad is above all. Do not speak of anything else (i.e. astrology); it is all just ashes. (ਸਭਸੈ ਊਪਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹੋਰ ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਉ ਨ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੨॥)And so on, till we arrive at the tuk I quoted: ਗਣਤ ਗਣੀਐ ਸਹਸਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜੀਐ ॥ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਥੀਐAstrological calculations about one's future create suspense or sorrow in one's heart; But by seeking the Guru's refuge, one always remains in peace and comfort.It is crystal clear from the opening line that the Guru addresses a Pandit regarding the calculations he makes to draw a birth chart to eventually fix an auspicious date for the marriage. Guru Sahib tells him that he does not realize that Parmatma is above these; as all days are created by God. The Guru encourages to speak about nothing else than GurShabad (in this context the Guru is referring to the kundlis). And the Guru continues till he says that instead of creating suspense or sorrow in your heart by supposed revelations of your future; instead embrace the Guru and remain in peace and comfort (by living in his Will and accepting Hukam).Well said as usual SikhKhoj Paji. Shocking that we Sikhs are giving this hocus-pocus the time of day!The big question is can you change the future with Deb drishti? How many sants were able to predict events 1947 partitions and warned sikhs? How many predicted bluestar? How many 1984 riots ? Hardly any one was able to predict or save innocent lives.Exactly KD Singh Paji. Even though easy for chele to claim in hindsight, none of the Sants knew the future ahead (as its fluid).We Sikhs should at least know basics of our faith - that Bhagats do not get reincarnated Why let so-called Brahmgiani's insult our Bhagats and the unmatchable bravery of our Panj Piare. Our Guru Sahibaan were not Hindu Kings in previous lives and neither were the 4 Sahibzade Hindu Gods in previous lives.With respect to the cave near Kiratpur Sahib where the allegation is made that all our shaheeds are living there ...And Paapi rather than giving $100 to a jyotish give it to Sikh children trying to get an education via www.educatepunjab.net Edited July 28, 2015 by mrsingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 If Astrology was a real science then Why so many Hindu kings battles against muslim invaders. Why Scientific britishers took over India and all Astrologers , saints were unable to predict anything to kings who used to hire best of them. It is not real science.Bro, you are mixing two concepts together. Astrology can predict future events, but cannot always change them. Whatever God has decided cannot be changed, only God/Brahamgyanis can change that.Even Germany was very advanced in warfare during world war 2, but they lost. Reason was the stupid decision made by Hitler to invade Russia, not because he lacked in modern technology.Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 We Sikhs should at least know basics of our faith - that Bhagats do not get reincarnated Why let Brahmgiani's insulting our Bhagats and the unmatchable bravery of our Panj Piare. Can you please explain the difference between a Brahamgyani and a Bhagat?Do you know that all our Bhagats and Panj Pyaray were Brahamgyanis too? Please don't make fun of a Gurbani term.Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Bro, you are mixing two concepts together. Astrology can predict future events, but cannot always change them. Whatever God has decided cannot be changed, only God/Brahamgyanis can change that.Even Germany was very advanced in warfare during world war 2, but they lost. Reason was the stupid decision made by Hitler to invade Russia, not because he lacked in modern technology.Bhul chuk maafGermany lost because whole world pounced on them.And Britishers and USA were not far behind in science.It was USA that got atom bomb in 1945 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) On 7/28/2015, 1:35:22, kdsingh80 said: Germany lost because whole world pounced on them.And Britishers and USA were not far behind in science.It was USA that got atom bomb in 1945 . Germany made a blunder by invading Russia; and Japan by invading USA. Correct me if I am wrong, even Nazis were close to building an atomic bomb. Anyways, we are going off-topic. Back to Astrology - predicting future world events, is kind of different from predicting a person's future, by making his birth chart, looking at his palm, feet, etc. To predict the former, one needs a high spiritual state; for latter, astrology is good enough to get close. Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 28, 2015 by paapiman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Again paspimaan do what you like 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Again paspimaan do what you like Bro, don't become a victim of missionary thinking.Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 This has nothing to do with being missionary. World isn't black and white..!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) This has nothing to do with being missionary. World isn't black and white..!!Most likely, most missionaries will say that Astrology is not a part of Sikhi.Bhul chuk maaf Edited August 13, 2015 by paapiman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Well its not integral part of Sikhi certainly not integral from scriptural stand point, maybe from historical stand point there are instances of astrology and also can be part parcel of viygyan aspect of Sikhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Most likely, all missionaries will say that Astrology is not a part of Sikhi.Bhul chuk maafAre you trying to say that astrology is part of Sikhi? My ancestors were from pakistan and They never believed in astrology , there was no concept of kundali matching among sikhs. Though they believed in Jaadu tona .Astrology was never part of sikhism 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Are you trying to say that astrology is part of Sikhi? My ancestors were from pakistan and They never believed in astrology , there was no concept of kundali matching among sikhs. Though they believed in Jaadu tona .Astrology was never part of sikhism Astrology is just as much part of Sikhi, as modern medical science, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc are.Bhul chuk maaf Edited July 28, 2015 by paapiman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Astrology is not needed in sikhi. A person can follow a sikh lifestyle without doing any astrology crap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Astrology is not needed in sikhi. A person can follow a sikh lifestyle without doing any astrology crap.You are right.Daas will request you brother, not to insult this great field of study, which was invented by a Mahapurakh, Rikhi Bhrigu jee Maharaaj. You will be indirectly doing ninda (heinous crime in Sikhi) of a Mahapurakh.Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 You are right.Daas will request you brother, not to insult this great field of study, which was invented by a Mahapurakh, Rikhi Bhrigu jee Maharaaj. You will be indirectly doing ninda (heinous crime in Sikhi) of a Mahapurakh.Bhul chuk maaf what??????? Bro just calm down. How the hell is it an indirect nindia? I'm calling astrology crap not no rishi. Bro you are taking this astrology stuff waaaaay to seriously. Put this much effort in you bhagti and maybe you might not need an astrologer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 For example I can call the Pythagorean theorem crap but I have not insulted the maker of it. PS: I don't think the Pythagorean theorem is crap I'm just giving an example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 what??????? Bro just calm down. How the hell is it an indirect nindia? I'm calling astrology crap not no rishi. Bro you are taking this astrology stuff waaaaay to seriously. Put this much effort in you bhagti and maybe you might not need an astrologer. Bro, just talk to a Mahapurakh/Gurmukh, when you go to India about Astrology.Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Singh123456777 Posted July 29, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Bro, just talk to a Mahapurakh/Gurmukh, when you go to India about Astrology.Bhul chuk maafhave you read my post? Put in as much effort in doing bhagti and you won't need an astrologer. Why care about learning the future that could be wrong? With bhagti a person will know the future with the Kirpa of the true guru. Did baba nand Singh go to an astrologer? Or did any of the DDT Sants? None have. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kdsingh80 Posted July 29, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Astrology is just as much part of Sikhi, as modern medical science, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc are.Bhul chuk maafDeveloped nations have best scientists in Physics , Chemistry , Biology and we have seen results for them and improvement in life they have done for their people . India have world's best astrologers and still we have yet to see results about improvement in life of people in India 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lucky Posted July 29, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 It's because developed nations show results first and then get paid, ...whereas the Indians take the cash first and leave you hanging for results ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) If you are a Manglik paapiman ji then i recommend you wear lal dhaage on left hand and avoid ghee on Tuesdays.There is Taksali Singh in Malton who can advice u more on itWhich Singh, guest jee? Can you please give me his details? Daas will greatly appreciate that.Bhul chuk maaf Edited August 14, 2015 by paapiman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post paapiman Posted July 29, 2015 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Developed nations have best scientists in Physics , Chemistry , Biology and we have seen results for them and improvement in life they have done for their people . India have world's best astrologers and still we have yet to see results about improvement in life of people in India There was a time bro, when India was very advanced, even more than today's age in some fields. Europe was in dark ages, at one point in time.Anyways, let's stick to the topic.Bhul chuk maaf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post paapiman Posted July 31, 2015 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) The big question is can you change the future with Deb drishti? How many sants were able to predict events 1947 partitions and warned sikhs? How many predicted bluestar? How many 1984 riots ? Hardly any one was able to predict or save innocent lives.QuoteThat area was mostly populated with Muslim people. Hindus were very few. Babajee told them "very dangerous time is coming. I have taken all the trouble on my head. You make a Gurudwara and a wall around it with an iron gate. At that hard time you all get into it. You well be safe". They did as instructed by Babajee. A few years after Pakistan was created out of India. There were terrible fights between Hindus and Muslims, but they all were safe in that Gurudwara and later on brought to India by military without any loss. Babajee predicted much earlier and saved all.Unquote [1][1] - Sri Nanaksar Stairs to GodThe above has more to do with Brahamgyan, rather than Astrology.Bhul chuk maaf Edited July 31, 2015 by paapiman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 QuoteThat area was mostly populated with Muslim people. Hindus were very few. Babajee told them "very dangerous time is coming. I have taken all the trouble on my head. You make a Gurudwara and a wall around it with an iron gate. At that hard time you all get into it. You well be safe". They did as instructed by Babajee. A few years after Pakistan was created out of India. There were terrible fights between Hindus and Muslims, but they all were safe in that Gurudwara and later on brought to India by military without any loss. Babajee predicted much earlier and saved all.Unquote [1][1] - Sri Nanaksar Stairs to GodThe above has more to do with Brahamgyan, rather than Astrology.Bhul chuk maafThese are few local events. on a mass scale none of them were able to save lives O/W why Sikh Kaum was so badly hit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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