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Sri Charitropakhyan Sahib jee Series - Charitar #3

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Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion.

Please forgive me for being explicit.
 
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Bhul chuk maaf

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Unknown factors in the above story:

Was the lady forced into marriage with an older man, whom she was never attracted to in the first place? The 'charitar' makes it sound like she willingly choose to sleep with two different men, one of whom was fat, old (compared to her) and unattractive. Thus the story makes it sound like she is just a slut.

However, if she was forced into such a marriage with said fat man who she was never attracted to in the first place, and had no feelings for, then our of pure frustration for a companion who was more like herself and had in common with, young, virile, handsome... then possibly that could have driven her to that.

So the lesson is? Don't engage in forced arranged marriages. And especially don't force younger women to marry men who are much older and have nothing in common with them?? But again, it says nothing about her situation. As it's written it just makes her look like a slut while making the older man (and the younger one) look like fools... and makes it sound like women just love doing adultery and getting laid.

 

 

 

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Satkiran if you think moral of the story is made out to be that she looks like a slut only then you are missing the plot. Yes story insinuates she is acting slut but thats just one aspect of story not whole. It also give her credit (credit where its due) of being more smarter than men:

she had full consciouness of understanding the highs and lows of life

This statement holds true not just in this story but all aspects of her life. 

Thats a moral of the story, its all pointing towards above in bold, forget the nitty gritty details of the story, don't psychoanalyze it too much, moral of this charitar is - she was much more smarter than both of these men, she was able to convince thinner one in acquiesce and other fatter one easily when it comes to getting out of trouble by providing compliment statements to him to get out of the situation. 

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26 minutes ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

So the lesson is? Don't engage in forced arranged marriages. And especially don't force younger women to marry men who are much older and have nothing in common with them??

Good you are learning Satkirin. Thats a start. @satkirin

Yes. There should always be some physical compatibility in marriages whether age or physical strength.

Guru ji mentioned several times in Dasam Granth that he is writing everything in a summarized form, because he doesnt want to increase the size of granth too much. There is a lot of knowledge that Guru Ji has packed into Dasam Granth. Only Guru Ji can do it.

So you have to use some common sense too. In my opinion, this granth is taught in the very end, when a student has grasped knowledge of other shanti ras baani.

 

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14 minutes ago, N30 S!NGH said:

Thats a moral of the story, its all pointing towards above in bold, forget the nitty gritty details of the story, don't psychoanalyze it too much, moral of this charitar is - she was much more smarter than both of these men, she was able to convince thinner one in acquiesce and other fatter one easily when it comes to getting out of trouble by providing compliment statements to him to get out of the situation. 

Good start Paaji.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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4 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

Good you are learning Satkirin. Thats a start. @satkirin

Yes. There should always be some physical compatibility in marriages whether age or physical strength.

Guru ji mentioned several times in Dasam Granth that he is writing everything in a summarized form, because he doesnt want to increase the size of granth too much. There is a lot of knowledge that Guru Ji has packed into Dasam Granth. Only Guru Ji can do it.

So you have to use some common sense too. In my opinion, this granth is taught in the very end, when a student has grasped knowledge of other shanti ras baani.

 

I was trying to find something positive... but it doesnt actually say she was forced to marry the older fat man. So that was interpolating on my own. I doubt a woman would even have sex with someone she found to be old (creepy) and ugly, especially if she had a younger lover. So why was she even having sex with the older one in the first place, unless she was in a forced arranged marriage where she was 'expected' to. But no matter how hard someone will try to act like they love someone they are forced to spend their lives with, they never really will. So the fault in that case is the parents who forced the arranged marriage (whatever their reasons for doing so). You can't really blame the girl for wanting to be with someone she really cares about instead of a fat old man she was forced to marry by her parents.  But of course, all this is speculation. But the story does make her just look to be a slut stringing along both of them. It's known in the story that neither one knew she was with the other... so it was her deciving both of them. So the story without the deeper details on the background as to her motives... makes the reader focus on her just being a slut and the men just being gullible victims, when in all liklihood there is MUCH more to the story which forced her into that position, and likely there was no actual malice intended on her part.

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18 minutes ago, N30 S!NGH said:

Satkiran if you think moral of the story is made out to be that she looks like a slut only then you are missing the plot. Yes story insinuates she is acting slut but thats just one aspect of story not whole. It also give her credit (credit where its due) of being more smarter than men:

she had full consciouness of understanding the highs and lows of life

This statement holds true not just in this story but all aspects of her life.

Thats a moral of the story, its all pointing towards above in bold, forget the nitty gritty details of the story, don't psychoanalyze it too much, moral of this charitar is - she was much more smarter than both of these men, she was able to convince thinner one in acquiesce and other fatter one easily when it comes to getting out of trouble by providing compliment statements to him to get out of the situation.

But why would she want to even convince them?? Why was she even having sex with a fat old man to begin with when she had a much more compatible man who was her own age and had more in common with her? No woman would ever do that willingly... it would be gross. So the details in the story making him sound undesireable (fat, old) etc to me are a clue that she really does not want to be with that man and was maybe forced into it. So she is actually the victim in the story and not the evil one. (What other way did she have, to be with someone who she really could relate to??)

But the way its written MAJORITY will only focus on SHE used these men and manipulated them behind their backs.  Making it seem like SHE was the one who was evil and they were the victims. There is a BIG difference. The motive matters and the background matters.

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Yes. She was prolli forced to marry fat guy who prolli was rich. But she was in love with the slender guy & could not be satisfied. So she was deceiving the fat guy because she was married. But when she was about to get caught, she scared her young lover to run away unless he would be caught. And when fat guy comes, she uses her brains to convince him that she is in so love with him , that her fluids started dripping.  So, the fat guy becomes lustful,and get blinded without any reasoning.

It shows how a woman can act in certain situation.

It shows how to scare away young men.

It shows how men can get blind in lust, and show no reasoning.

So yes, she was a slut.

In Indian culture, even if you are married to a old person by mistake, you treat him like God.

Someone refer her to the story Bibi Rajni & Pingla during Guru Ramdas Jis time. 

 

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But she is still victim if she was forced to marry him. Telling someone to see someone else as God but that person you have no feelings for at all doesn't work. You can't force her to love someone she never did.  In that case she is the victim. Maybe she should have divorced him or ran away first and not marry him at all but were those options??? I'd cringe if I was forced to marry someone I had no feeling for and is never ever be able to have sex with them... No matter what anyone said about treating them like God. Having sex with them would feel like rape. She was trapped and was a victim in that case. It doesn't make her a slut...

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I don't think thats true, there are lot more stories of men being deceptive and deceiving too which are in charitopakhian. Its talking about human nature in general, not limited to specific sex.

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4 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

Well it makes those men look stupid too, it that makes a woman look like a deciever. Moral of the story acc to my monkey mind is, women can easily deceive a man with their looks and charm and men are stupid that they can't see what is right or wrong lol. And those men are in lust too so nobody wins here. I like that charitar next one please lol 

Not to me... I dont think it makes her look like a slut at all. Yes she did deceive them. But the reason I extrapolated that she must have been forced into relation with the older guy is the emphasis on the grotesqueness of how she viewed him... old, fat... etc.  It gives the impression that she doesn't want to be with him at all. So why would she be unless she was forced.  But the way its written it just makes her look like a slut and deceiver without knowing what caused that situation in the first place. She is very likely NOT evil nor ever had evil intentions... she probably felt trapped married to a gross old fat man who she was forced to have sex with but loved the younger guy.  The fact that the background is intentionally left out of the story... the "why" makes it look like the focus is to paint women as decievers and men as their innocent victims. 

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9 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

Well it makes those men look stupid too, it that makes a woman look like a deciever. Moral of the story acc to my monkey mind is, women can easily deceive a man with their looks and charm and men are stupid that they can't see what is right or wrong lol. And those men are in lust too so nobody wins here. I like that charitar next one please lol 

Exactly, its not like this charitar make men look great. It made men look like they think with their ___. Yet we don't see men compalining about it how unfair the insinuation . We take it face value and learn to grow from it unlike crazy feminist who scream sexism non sense.

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1 minute ago, N30 S!NGH said:

Exactly, its not like this charitar make men look great. It made men look like they think with their ___. Yet we don't see men compalining about it how unfair. We take it face value and learn to grow from it unlike crazy feminist who scream sexism non sense.

Well what I learn from it is don't force women into marriage with gross old men they don't love.  

It's wrong... doesn't matter how many times you tell them they are supposed to see their husband as "god" over them, you can't make someone feel love for someone they just don't.  Does it make her bad that she followed her heart? I don't think so. Maybe she should have just left the gross old fat guy. But I don't think that is an option for many Indian women who are forced into arranged marriages is it?? Other option? Kill herself... I see the system as what was evil and not her. I dont think her intent was to deceive.

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10 minutes ago, N30 S!NGH said:

Exactly, its not like this charitar make men look great. It made men look like they think with their ___. Yet we don't see men compalining about it how unfair the insinuation . We take it face value and learn to grow from it unlike crazy feminist who scream sexism non sense.

EXACTLY!!! i have been repeating this over & over again. This is more of a slap to men who get blind & think with ____ rather than brains when under lust.

And yes we men acknowledge this shortcoming.

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13 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

We all gonna see the moral through our lenses lol. For me I don't get into background cuz it can be anything maybe she married him for money or was forced. But in India arranged marriages have happening since ages and with time people adjust. What if after marriage I put on 200lb, that means my husband now have the right to cheat on me or find another better looking woman than me? Marriage is sacred. Once you are married you have to let go of your desires.

That's different than being forced to marry someone you never had any feeling for to begin with... in marriage you are expected to have sex with them!!! That would feel like RAPE to someone who was forcibly married in an arranged marriage!!! So should she give up ever having a genuine and loving relationship in life to be raped by that man every night? By 'adjust' you really mean they give up - with laves this is called 'breaking' them. 

Similar situations would like forced child marriage in Islam to old men. Should they give up any chance at ever having a normal and loving marriage to be basically servant and sex slave to the man they were forced to be with?? 

I don't condone the adultery, but I understand it if that was the situation. 

But again, I was only extrapolating... those details they "why" are not given, and they are a very important aspect to understand what caused the situation or led to it.  Its all fine to say women can charm men and are sexually devious and men think with their ____s but it doesn't give any way to fix it.  The WHY is the key to knowing how to fix it.  The answer isn't to make all man distrust all women (which is what it does given the way it's written... it's written to point the finger at the woman - but ay least one of those men are also a slut since it takes two to tango and assuming the younger man is also not married to her... makes him just as much a slut IMO) 

The answer in the above would be to never force someone to marry a person they have absolutely no feelings towards. 

 

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By adjust I mean, two people get married and they eventually start loving each other. Maybe I don't think that far about old men marrying young women. Where I live, it does not work that way. So, I don't go for Muslim women and think about them since they read Quran which is already have their plenty of flaws. I am in my mid 20s and I have never seen a forced type of wedding so I don't know.

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