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tva prasad

Manu and Adam

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Trying to consolidate the two traditions, some Ismaili muslims have argued that Adam is the first person in Kalyug (beginning of new era) while Manu is the first person in Satyug. So in that regard, Manu is the first.

They use Quranic verses to support this which state that the angels had knowledge of humans existing and behaviour prior to Adam being created.

 

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1 hour ago, amardeep said:

Trying to consolidate the two traditions, some Ismaili muslims have argued that Adam is the first person in Kalyug (beginning of new era) while Manu is the first person in Satyug. So in that regard, Manu is the first.

Kaljug phase began during the time of Raja Parikshit (grandson of Arjan jee). There were many people living on earth at that time. What would "first person in Kaljug" mean in this context? 

Raja Parikshit confronts Kaljug (in his physical form). Please watch below.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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There are different views. The Ismailis talk abou "The New Adam" ie a new beginning of mankind, - fresh start and ideals..

Similiar to the vedantic Yug Avatar theory where there is a certain Avatar that brings the suitable rahit for each yuga.

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On 30/01/2017 at 3:06 AM, tva prasad said:

then who is the first person manu or Adam?

There is no first human according to Gurbani that I know. In Sri Akal Ustat, Guru Sahib says that men off different races were created, but there was no first person, man or race. Only those who beleive that Adam created Eve from his rib beleive tbis original man stuff.

 

6 hours ago, amardeep said:

They use Quranic verses to support this which state that the angels had knowledge of humans existing and behaviour prior to Adam being created.

You know which verses?

If angels had knowledge of human existence and behaviours prior to Adam, why would they believe in Adam as the first. Seems strange that the Qur'an would support this.

 

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Qur'an (2:30 - 33): “‘Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.’ They (the angels) said: ‘Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we (the angels) glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.’ God said: ‘I know that which you do not know.’

 

Yes that's why Ismaili's say there were people prior to Adam.

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these are all other interpretations of it:

Sahih International: And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

Pickthall: And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.

Yusuf Ali: Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Shakir: And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.

Muhammad Sarwar: When your Lord said to the angels, "I am appointing someone as my deputy on earth," they said (almost protesting), "Are you going to appoint one who will commit corruption and bloodshed therein, even though we (are the ones who) commemorate Your Name and glorify You?" The Lord said, "I know that which you do not know".

Mohsin Khan: And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know."

Arberry: And when thy Lord said to the angels, 'I am setting in the earth a viceroy.' They said, 'What, wilt Thou set therein one who will do corruption there, and shed blood, while We proclaim Thy praise and call Thee Holy?' He said, 'Assuredly I know that you know not.'

 

but the verse after it in my copy of quran says :

31. and He taught Adam the names of all things,;then he placed them before the angels and said "tell me the names of these if you are right".

There is no inference here that there were any other humans before Adam.

 

 

 

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Just now, Lucky said:

Adam means "man", as in "aadhmee"

u can say the same about Manu. The Sanskrit word "manava" means human. It means children of Manu.

58 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

In Sri Akal Ustat, Guru Sahib says that men off different races were created, but there was no first person, man or race. Only those who beleive that Adam created Eve from his rib beleive tbis original man stuff.

true. Matsya puran does state manu gathered 7 rishis in his boat during the parlay (rishi markandeya ji being one) of them so, that would mean that there were other men around.

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17 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

There is no first human according to Gurbani that I know. In Sri Akal Ustat, Guru Sahib says that men off different races were created, but there was no first person, man or race. Only those who beleive that Adam created Eve from his rib beleive tbis original man stuff.

It is possible that Adam (Shivjee) was the first person, who was exiled from the heavens to the earth. So, he might not be the first human on earth, but the first demi-God, who had to take a human form and live on earth.

Similar to Mata Kaulan jee. She was a Gandarvi in the heaven. She was cursed by Brashpati jee and had to take the human form.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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3 hours ago, tva prasad said:

u can say the same about Manu. The Sanskrit word "manava" means human. It means children of Manu.

One of the arths for Manu is ਮਨੁ. Manu Simriti is probably talking about the human mind.

Native Hindi speakers will pronounce ਜਪੁ as Japu. Similarly, they will pronounce ਮਨੁ as Manu. Punjabis (and possibly others) will pronounce them as Jap and Man.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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I dont think neither the bible narratives nor the Puranas are to be read as literary historical documents.

And as others have stated in terms of the "first person" it does'nt mean they were the only person.. Many of my Christian and Muslims mates believe Adam to have been the first person created, but at the same time other tribes and populations were created. So it was a flourishing mankind, but Adam was the first amongst many others.

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On 31/01/2017 at 11:24 AM, paapiman said:

Kaljug phase began during the time of Raja Parikshit (grandson of Arjan jee). There were many people living on earth at that time. What would "first person in Kaljug" mean in this context? 

Raja Parikshit confronts Kaljug (in his physical form). Please watch below.

 

Watching that video about Kalyug, it also explains when kalyug met Guru Nanak Dev JI, he tempted Guru Sahib with a palace of Gold and untold riches. Guru Sahib replied with his shabad, which is the first shabad of Sri Raag:

 

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

 

ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥

Raag Siree Raag, First Mehl, First House:

 

ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉ ॥

If I had a palace made of pearls, inlaid with jewels,

 

ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ ॥

Scented with musk, saffron and sandalwood, a sheer delight to behold

 

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥

-seeing this, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||1||

 

ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥

Without the Lord, my soul is scorched and burnt.

 

ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

I consulted my Guru, and now I see that there is no other place at all. ||1||Pause||

 

ਧਰਤੀ ਤ ਹੀਰੇ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਤੀ ਪਲਘਿ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਾਉ ॥

If the floor of this palace was a mosaic of diamonds and rubies, and if my bed was encased with rubies,

 

ਮੋਹਣੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਣੀ ਸੋਹੈ ਕਰੇ ਰੰਗਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥

And if heavenly beauties, their faces adorned with emeralds, tried to entice me with sensual gestures of love

 

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੨॥

-seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||2||

 

ਸਿਧੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਈ ਰਿਧਿ ਆਖਾ ਆਉ ॥

If I were to become a Siddha, and work miracles, summon wealth

 

ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥

And become invisible and visible at will, so that people would hold me in awe

 

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥

-seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||3||

 

ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਮੇਲਿ ਲਸਕਰ ਤਖਤਿ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਉ ॥

If I were to become an emperor and raise a huge army, and sit on a throne,

 

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਸਲੁ ਕਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਭ ਵਾਉ ॥

Issuing commands and collecting taxes-O Nanak, all of this could pass away like a puff of wind.

 

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੧॥

Seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||4||1||


Sri Raag Guru Nanak Dev

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