Another Sikh girl kidnapped and forcibly converted to islam.

[chatanga1]

 

[ipledgeblue]

This is seriously annoying. The video is eye-opening!

 

This partition border seriously makes things difficult in helping the sikh community over there!

[chatanga1]

8 hours ago, londondajatt said:

This is seriously annoying. The video is eye-opening!

 

This partition border seriously makes things difficult in helping the sikh community over there!

 

The border does make things difficult, but when the Sikhs had the chance to do anything, they didn't. Neither has the indian govt done anything to help. Can you beleive that there are 6 border villages in Pakistan that have historic gurdwaras in them, the most famous one "Gurdwara Kartarpur Sahib" antim place of Guru Nanak Dev ji, yet the Sikhs didn't do anything to hold those villages in 1947 when they could easily have done so, or even after in the 65 and 71 wars. The SGPC asked the indian go vt to arrange an exchange of land, measuring the same from Indian panjab for these 6 villages, but the indian govt was not interested. % of those gurdwaras have rotted to dust, as did Kartarpur Sahib uuntil the pakistan govt decided it could be renovated for Sikh tourism purposes.

 

The border hasn;t helped but neither have the Sikhs. Coming onto forced conversions of Pakistani Sikh girls, the Sikhs in indian Panjab need to be more aggressive and operate a quid pro quo policy.

[ipledgeblue]

this is what happens when Singhs can't preserve maryada, what happened in 1947. And then we still didn't learn in 1984 - what use are small kripaans?

A paper maryada is useless when there's a proper rehit of regular pratice of defending ourselvs, I think taking amrit is now becoming a ritual, and well those that aren't taking amrit are also heading on some nasty slope, drugs anyone? 

[tva prasad]

I seriously think that Sikhs do not enough love for sikhi nowadays. If this had happed 3 centuries ago the girl would have rather died than embraced Islam and would have fought back. I believe that Sikh parents should raise their kids to have unconditional love for sikhi.

[chatanga1]

16 hours ago, tva prasad said:

I seriously think that Sikhs do not enough love for sikhi nowadays. If this had happed 3 centuries ago the girl would have rather died than embraced Islam and would have fought back. I believe that Sikh parents should raise their kids to have unconditional love for sikhi.

I think thats a little harsh myself, but I do understand what you are saying. However if the girl had no will to kill herself, then what? Why should death be forced on her because of others? A more fitting tactic would be for Sikh parents to tell their girls to murder their husbands (and families if possible) before they kill themselves. Poison the whole family if you can before you drink the poison yourself. It's a hard ask though bro.

[Kuttabanda2]

On 6/19/2017 at 2:42 PM, chatanga1 said:

 

The border does make things difficult, but when the Sikhs had the chance to do anything, they didn't. Neither has the indian govt done anything to help. Can you beleive that there are 6 border villages in Pakistan that have historic gurdwaras in them, the most famous one "Gurdwara Kartarpur Sahib" antim place of Guru Nanak Dev ji, yet the Sikhs didn't do anything to hold those villages in 1947 when they could easily have done so, or even after in the 65 and 71 wars. The SGPC asked the indian go vt to arrange an exchange of land, measuring the same from Indian panjab for these 6 villages, but the indian govt was not interested. % of those gurdwaras have rotted to dust, as did Kartarpur Sahib uuntil the pakistan govt decided it could be renovated for Sikh tourism purposes.

 

The border hasn;t helped but neither have the Sikhs. Coming onto forced conversions of Pakistani Sikh girls, the Sikhs in indian Panjab need to be more aggressive and operate a quid pro quo policy.

I saw this like a month or so ago.  The Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan live in a sea of sulleh, they really have no hope.  A while back, they even converted Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji's Shaheedi asthan to a mosque.  The Sikhs there need arms, finances, and resources, that is their only way to thrive and survive there. 

[chatanga1]

12 hours ago, Kuttabanda2 said:

A while back, they even converted Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji's Shaheedi asthan to a mosque.

Bhai Taru Singh's Shaheedi memeorial Gurdwara.

 

12 hours ago, Kuttabanda2 said:

The Sikhs there need arms, finances, and resources, that is their only way to thrive and survive there. 

In Pakistan it's a little hard. The Sikhs are scattered except for Peshawar. I asked a Kabuli Sikh once, when there were around a good 50,000 Sikhs in Kabul, why didn't they arms themselves during the civil war, and protect themselves. He gave a feeble answer that if we had guns they would have used rockets against us.

 

But the impression I got more from these Afghan/Pakistan Sikhs were they were more of the Khatri (trader) mentality. They didn't seem to have the "rarak-marak" ( ਰੜਕ ਮੜਕ ) that Jats/tarkhans/mazhabis have. Afghans trouble started in 1973, but the Sikhs there never thought enough to procure arms for self-defense.

 

Coming back to Pakistan, the Sikhs there are generally much more well off as they are all traders, and have businesses (as in afghanistan), but this was the same situation the Jews found themselves in, in Germany in the 1930s.

[Kuttabanda2]

6 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Bhai Taru Singh's Shaheedi memeorial Gurdwara.

Ohh my bad.  Read somewhere that it was panjve Patshahi's.

 

6 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

In Pakistan it's a little hard. The Sikhs are scattered except for Peshawar. I asked a Kabuli Sikh once, when there were around a good 50,000 Sikhs in Kabul, why didn't they arms themselves during the civil war, and protect themselves. He gave a feeble answer that if we had guns they would have used rockets against us.

 

But the impression I got more from these Afghan/Pakistan Sikhs were they were more of the Khatri (trader) mentality. They didn't seem to have the "rarak-marak" ( ਰੜਕ ਮੜਕ ) that Jats/tarkhans/mazhabis have. Afghans trouble started in 1973, but the Sikhs there never thought enough to procure arms for self-defense.

 

Coming back to Pakistan, the Sikhs there are generally much more well off as they are all traders, and have businesses (as in afghanistan), but this was the same situation the Jews found themselves in, in Germany in the 1930s.

I could agree, Sikhs there aren't as bellicose as their Jat/Tarkhan/Mazhabi counterparts.

 

I can understand why they feel that way, if they retaliated, it would just turn their already uncertain situation into a communal frenzy.  Being a minority in a 98% Muslim country would be enough to cause anxiety.  The general mentality of the Pakistani populous is bigoted enough due to the Country's Islamization and Islamic indoctrination,  I wouldn't be surprised if another series of pogroms take place there.

I guess we'll have to wait for political circumstances to change in the region for us to see any hope in that area.

 

 

 

 

[ipledgeblue]

On 22/06/2017 at 4:20 PM, chatanga1 said:

But the impression I got more from these Afghan/Pakistan Sikhs were they were more of the Khatri (trader) mentality. They didn't seem to have the "rarak-marak" ( ਰੜਕ ਮੜਕ ) that Jats/tarkhans/mazhabis have. Afghans trouble started in 1973, but the Sikhs there never thought enough to procure arms for self-defense.

Just sad that even though it is these Khatri sikhs that are preserving the turbans and are more likely to be carrying kirpaanaa, they can't use that mentality to get drive these symbols to get the annakh and yurt into the correct survival mentality.

[paapiman]

 

9 hours ago, londondajatt said:

Just sad that even though it is these Khatri sikhs that are preserving the turbans and are more likely to be carrying kirpaanaa, they can't use that mentality to get drive these symbols to get the annakh and yurt into the correct survival mentality.

Bro, many Khatris/Bhappe are Keshdharis, but not Amritdharis. Majority of the Amritdharis in our Panth are probably Jatts (who carry Kirpans).

Also, many Khatris/Bhappe live in areas in India (outside Punjab)/Pakistan, etc, where Sikhs are a minority (in some areas they have been living there for generations), whereas Jatts/Tarkhans/Majhbis are mainly concentrated in Punjab (within India). It is easier to have ਰੜਕ ਮੜਕ when you are in a majority.

Coming to the diaspora, Jatts are in great numbers in Canada, UK, etc, where they enjoy freedom and protection from the law. You cannot compare these liberal nations to middle eastern countries, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, where many Bhappe/Khatris live.

I was born in a middle eastern country, where many Bhappe lived. When I was a teen, I used to think of them as cowards too, but later I realized that you have to be smart/prudent as a community to survive. We should not act in ways which endangers the existence of our community or invites backlash from locals..

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Kuttabanda2]

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

 

Bro, many Khatris/Bhappe are Keshdharis, but not Amritdharis. Majority of the Amritdharis in our Panth are probably Jatts (who carry Kirpans).

Also, many Khatris/Bhappe live in areas in India (outside Punjab)/Pakistan, etc, where Sikhs are a minority (in some areas they have been living there for generations), whereas Jatts/Tarkhans/Majhbis are mainly concentrated in Punjab (within India). It is easier to have ਰੜਕ ਮੜਕ when you are in a majority.

Coming to the diaspora, Jatts are in great numbers in Canada, UK, etc, where they enjoy freedom and protection from the law. You cannot compare these liberal nations to middle eastern countries, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, where many Bhappe/Khatris live.

I was born in a middle eastern country, where many Bhappe lived. When I was a teen, I used to think of them as cowards too, but later I realized that you have to be smart/prudent as a community to survive. We should not act in ways which endangers the existence of our community or invites backlash from locals..

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I wholeheartedly agree with that, we have to be smart to survive as minorities in other countries, especially these Islamic ones.  Survivalism entails not putting ourselves in situations that will result in our demise.

[chatanga1]

15 hours ago, paapiman said:

I was born in a middle eastern country, where many Bhappe lived. When I was a teen, I used to think of them as cowards too, but later I realized that you have to be smart/prudent as a community to survive. We should not act in ways which endangers the existence of our community or invites backlash from locals..

 

I agree that the Sikh community has to be prudent to survive, but at the moment, Sikhs are barely surviving. There has to be a balance where survival is paramount but at what cost? If these muslims extremists/terrorists cottn onto this fact, aren't they more open to increase this kind of behaviour? They have been doing it for decades in Sind against the HIndus. The average statistics are 24 hindus girls abducted every month last time I looked into it. In these kinds of places there has to be some kind of fightback or failing that, to leave the area/country. The afghan Sikhs have chosen the latter, as they couldnt fight back.

 

16 hours ago, paapiman said:

Also, many Khatris/Bhappe live in areas in India (outside Punjab)/Pakistan, etc, where Sikhs are a minority (in some areas they have been living there for generations), whereas Jatts/Tarkhans/Majhbis are mainly concentrated in Punjab (within India). It is easier to have ਰੜਕ ਮੜਕ when you are in a majority.

 

Yes that's another good point as these groups are more used to manual labour type work, and this is mainly farming which is carried out mainly in Panjab. Khatris are businessmen, traders are don't really engage in any kind of manual labour.

 

1 hour ago, Kuttabanda2 said:

I wholeheartedly agree with that, we have to be smart to survive as minorities in other countries, especially these Islamic ones.  Survivalism entails not putting ourselves in situations that will result in our demise.

 

There has to be pragmatism as well to survive. Whenever conditions get bad, decisions have to be made what is the best method of survival. Staying in pakistan and taking an ass-kicking isn't survival. It's rolling over. Decades ago, and I try to put myself in this situation as I type this, girls from minority communties should have been told of the dangers and methods of revenge if they were ever to be abducted, ie stabbing the men they were forced to marry whilst they were asleep, or even better poisoning the whole family etc. At least this way those abducting the girls would always feel insecure about abduction and forced marriage.

 

[LiquidSky]

Its stories like this that makes me want to post something like this:

 

[Guest Muslim and proud]

@LiquidSky - that video you posted is false and full of half truths. 

urine was a common medical cure across cultures for centuries, including Christianity when many Christians translated the following verse to me urine  "  "Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well",  proverbs 5:15. It was in common use in pre-islamic Arabia - not something that was introduced in Islam, infact in Islamic law, urine is considered Najas (impure) and not to be used to taken. The  narrator does give a commentary to the Haddith - those bedawins that came to him were accustomed to drinking milk and urine. So he allowed them to do so as it was their custom, secondly they were executed like that because killed an innocent boy in the same manner who was looking after the camels.   

It's very easy to make videos like that. I can make a video about how brutal was silly the formation of the Kalsa was - killing 5 innocent people to get 5 symbols. or how Guru Gobin tortured and killed the masnads - boiled alive and buried alive etc.

- in regards the to this post and Sikh girls being forced to convert to Islam. This may have happened, I doubt to the large scale some sikhs like to think it would but it also happened to Muslim girls that were left behind in India. Are Sikh going to allow those girls to become Muslim again?

The partition had really bad impact on Muslims and Sikhs. Muslims were slaughtered on trains, women raped and plundered by Sikhs also. Where is their justice? 

And as for Sikhs in Pakistan, they live their peacefully. Pakistan not only protecting Sikh sights, but also allowing many perks, including being the first country to recognise the Anand Karaj marriage, well before India or any western country. Dubia has built one of the biggest Gudwarahs there. where is all this oppression in Muslim lands to Sikhs ? There are issues in a lot of Muslim countries but they are not aimed at Sikhs specifically. Afghanistan isn't really a fair example as it's been bombed to the stone age by Britain, Russia and the US. 

Sikhs tend to have more of a challenge in the West with keeping with their faith than anywhere else. No oppression from the state here. Apart from problems with different schisms in Sikhism, and young Sikhs leaving Sikhism for various reasons. My neighbour was a sikh women who became Muslim, no one forced her, she became Muslim because she read about Islam and realised most of what she knew about Islam were lies told by her community. It easier to play the victim card then to come to terms with the shortcomings of your own community. 

 

[LiquidSky]

Well he's quoting from a hadif. 

[Kuttabanda2]

On 8/25/2017 at 3:51 AM, Guest Muslim and proud said:

@LiquidSky - that video you posted is false and full of half truths. 

urine was a common medical cure across cultures for centuries, including Christianity when many Christians translated the following verse to me urine  "  "Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well",  proverbs 5:15. It was in common use in pre-islamic Arabia - not something that was introduced in Islam, infact in Islamic law, urine is considered Najas (impure) and not to be used to taken. The  narrator does give a commentary to the Haddith - those bedawins that came to him were accustomed to drinking milk and urine. So he allowed them to do so as it was their custom, secondly they were executed like that because killed an innocent boy in the same manner who was looking after the camels.   

It's very easy to make videos like that. I can make a video about how brutal was silly the formation of the Kalsa was - killing 5 innocent people to get 5 symbols. or how Guru Gobin tortured and killed the masnads - boiled alive and buried alive etc.

- in regards the to this post and Sikh girls being forced to convert to Islam. This may have happened, I doubt to the large scale some sikhs like to think it would but it also happened to Muslim girls that were left behind in India. Are Sikh going to allow those girls to become Muslim again?

The partition had really bad impact on Muslims and Sikhs. Muslims were slaughtered on trains, women raped and plundered by Sikhs also. Where is their justice? 

And as for Sikhs in Pakistan, they live their peacefully. Pakistan not only protecting Sikh sights, but also allowing many perks, including being the first country to recognise the Anand Karaj marriage, well before India or any western country. Dubia has built one of the biggest Gudwarahs there. where is all this oppression in Muslim lands to Sikhs ? There are issues in a lot of Muslim countries but they are not aimed at Sikhs specifically. Afghanistan isn't really a fair example as it's been bombed to the stone age by Britain, Russia and the US. 

Sikhs tend to have more of a challenge in the West with keeping with their faith than anywhere else. No oppression from the state here. Apart from problems with different schisms in Sikhism, and young Sikhs leaving Sikhism for various reasons. My neighbour was a sikh women who became Muslim, no one forced her, she became Muslim because she read about Islam and realised most of what she knew about Islam were lies told by her community. It easier to play the victim card then to come to terms with the shortcomings of your own community. 

 

What Justice could you possibly reap from Partition? 

Your reasoning is that Sikh girls being kidnapped and forcibly converted today  in Pakistan, is ok, because Muslim women left behind in East Panjab during partition were also forcibly converted to Sikhism? (By the way, sikh women were kidnapped and forcibly converted during partition as well.)

 we live in the 21st Century now....Well, at least we non-muslims do. 

Sikhs in Pakistan live peacefully there because when they're girls are kidnapped, and their temples demolished or taken over, they stay quiet, well aware of the fact that they're a vulnerable minority in an Islamic nation. 

 

As for your ridiculous assertions. Guru Gobind Singh didn't kill 5 people to form the Khalsa. The Masands were boiled alive and burned for their crimes against the people, which is well deserved. Go ahead, make a video. It'll just demostrate your ignorance. One would ought to know about a faith before criticizing it.

On the topic of Criticization, You take the above video, a video that highlights a problem, and brings to light a case of human rights violation as a criticism of Islam? How do you connect those two dots? Is it an insecurity? 

 

Lol, the shortcomings of our community? One only needs to read the Quran and the ahadith themselves to see the "lies".  Our community is prospering one way or another. Sikhs in the west have it easier. We tend to be more educated and financially secure, we ASSIMILATE quite easily due to our Liberal philosophy and outlook as a community. We gain more converts than we lose. Islam is losing quite a lot to Atheism and rationality itself. Most Sikhs that leave their faith are ones who have become Atheists/agnostics.  Here in the west, we tend to grow due to our ideals and compatible principles. 

 

As a community, we don't look towards converting more individuals to boast. 

The only person playing the victim card is you, as usual. That's kind of established now. 

The condoning of Wife-beating, sex slaves, lashing adulterers, and the laws regarding rape. None of those are compatible with the moral code shared by the rest of the world.

 

Thankfully, the more your people move into the west, the more your faith itself will begin to deteriorate, as the West secularizes all people who assimilate within it. 

 

 

[chatanga1]

On 25/08/2017 at 11:51 AM, Guest Muslim and proud said:

My neighbour was a sikh women who became Muslim, no one forced her, she became Muslim because she read about Islam

 

There is a world of difference of someone choosing to follow any religion they want and someoen being kidnapped and forced to follow a particular religion.

 

On 25/08/2017 at 11:51 AM, Guest Muslim and proud said:

Afghanistan isn't really a fair example as it's been bombed to the stone age by Britain, Russia and the US. 

 

Afghanistan is reaping it's karma. From the 12 century the Ghauris and Ghaznavis, upto the Abdalis in the 18th century killed and maimed the people of India, and took away the women and wealth of India by force. They may not have paid for it in their lifetime, but Allah never forgets and we all sew what we reap eventually. Today the people dying in Afghanistan are paying the price for their past deeds.