mrsingh

Brother I have explained above why the circumstances of 1801-1849 were totally different to those of the 21st century. In respect of the Jews, whilst it is true that the 1.7% of Americans that are Jews (a percentage very similar to the number of Sikhs in India) enable the Jews to wield greater clout than their numbers merit, the reality is that in coming years the Jewish Lobby in America will be less powerful than the Muslim Lobby in America due to projected greater numbers of the latter. You should also be aware that the rate of assimilation of Jews (the obvious consequence for 1% minorities) is that more than half of all young Jews marry non-Jewish spouses (which due to their religion will lead to their demographic oblivion over time). Furthermore, Israel only relinquished it's hold over Gaza and the West Bank after coming to the conclusions that long term the Muslims would form a majority of the population of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank combined. So with all due respect your point in respect of the Jews (as a demographic role model for Sikhs) rings hollows. We should aspire to the level of academic success and contribution towards Sarbat da Bhala globally as a result coming from Jews presently to come from Sikhs in the future.

Paapi Ji nobody is advocating that we must advertise bajjar kurehit karan wale as role models of Gurmukh virtue. All people are politely saying to you is that we must strive to direct fallen Sikhs (patits) or slow adopters (sehajdhari Sikhs) towards greater adherence of Gurmat via greater interaction and compassion as opposed to simply alienation whereby the same are simply rejected and pushed out of the Sikh Panth into the Hindu fold. Paapi Ji the quality before quantity approach has been tried since 1950 and has spectacularly failed with disastrous consequences. 1984 and the subsequent Genocide of Sikhs would not have happened if the overall Sikh Panth had been 100 million strong back then with a massive demographic power base across all states in India. In fact had we been 100 million strong back in 1984 i firmly believe Indira Gandhi would have been dead within hours of ordering the Genocide in June 1984. Amritdhari (Khalsa) Sikhs are defined solely upon the basis of quality and thus nobody is advocating that those who drink alcohol, do drugs, visit prostitutes, cut their kes etc can ever be considered Amritdhari Sikhs.

Paapi Ji Gurbani is quite clear that imbibing alcohol, smoking narcotics, visiting prostitutes and lacking compassion are unbecoming of a true Sikh (Gurmukh). However, in temporal terms we accept that the Sikh Panth is not comprised solely of Gurmukhs and that there is a sehajdhari majority within the Panth that need to encouraged towards Gurmat rather than alienated and ostracised away from the Sikh Panth altogether. Since you yourself admit that you are a non-Sikh and consider Nihangs that do jhatka as non-Sikhs, your opinion as to who constitutes a member of the Sikh Panth aligns perfectly with the opinions of Hindutva opponents of the Sikh Panth.

In other words, in your opinion, Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is deficient in this aspect is what you are trying to say. Given that the message of Sikhi is universal and not proscribed for one gender, how comes there are not 400 odd sexually erotic tales to warn female Sikhs of the evil and cunning men that exist in greater numbers?

With all due respect Chatanga Paji i'm staggered that you are not aware of this historical reality and fact. I'm quite sure this fact is alluded to in the majority of books alluding to 1984 even Tully to Kepley Mahmood to Suri et al. I am not as big a scholar as DalSingh101, SikhKhoj or Amardeep Ji but no doubt they can furnish you with references. Even aside from bilbliographical references, I can only assume that you were not born by the time of June 1984? I was. Tony Proactive was as well and he can no doubt confirm this undeniable historical and political fact. As the whole basis for Akali Dal and Damdami Taksal antagonism in 1980 was rooted in the fact that Damdami Taksal openly campaigned for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections. Given that Indira Gandhi was out of power in the years between 1977-1980 it was an unfortunate hammer blow for our Panth that she was re-elected as Prime Minister in 1980 with Damdami Taksal support in that year, resulting in the subsequent 35years of Genocide and suffering the Panth has had to endure as a consequence of Indira Gandhi maniacal desire for power.

Yes indeed Chatanga Paji. I thought you were aware of this when myself and you had the debates we did on SikhAwareness.com with Sher in Feb 2014 (for which I must express my respect for your contribution towards). Why don't you have the courage to openly debate about any point that you disagree with me and others wih similar thinking? Yes drugs, alcohol, biraderi apartheid, female infanticide, illiteracy, cancer and poverty are some of the biggest challenges we need to immediately address as a united Sikh Panth. But you are most welcome to stick your head in the sand and focus on the reading of Triya Charitar erotica as your Gurbani In other words the 99.6% of the human population who are not born with any connection to Sikhi should remain stuck to the beliefs of their parents. Essentially, you want Sikhs to remain a miniscule minority so that the Panth can be dominated politically and be susceptible to Genocide from opponents such as Congress or Pakistan. You fear the expansion of Sikhi. Well said KD Singh Paji as usual Well said SikhKhoj Paji as usual. If only we can be more accepting of non-Punjabi sehajdhari Sikhs there is no reason (on the basis of logic alone) that Sikhi cannot become the majority faith within India in this century. If however, we want restrict the definition of a Sikh to an Amritdhari in order that our opponents can define us as an intrinsic minority within Punjab, then we can only look forward to more of the same as has occurred in the last 35 years. No Paapi it's self-proclaimed non-Sikhs like yourself that wish for them to be excluded from the Sikh Panth. As you realise that the larger the Sikh Panth grows population wise, the stronger we get and the more Khalsa will arise. Well said as usual N30 Paji Sehajdhari's are Sikhs by automatic default and definition. I don't understand why the definition of a Sikh matters so much to you as a self-proclaimed non-Sikh?

Thank you SikhKhoj Paji for the kind welcome :-) You are absolutely right that bir ras existed within the Sikh Panth prior to the Arya Samaj printing presses putting together the Sodhak Committee with Khemu Ram Bedi (who personally decided that Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib was best lumped together with with the 400 odd Triya charitar sexually erotic tales). What's interesting is that simply because Bachittar Natak states it many people are quick to believe that our Guru Sahibaan were all Hindu Kings in their previous lives who decided the order to the order of GurGaddi succession like a business deal. I find that as equally insulting of Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh as the allegation that these old Hindu erotica tales (Triya Charitar within Charitropakhiyan) were personally written by Guru Sahib (at a time when they were busy defending the poor, the weak and the needy from oppression, defending the Sikh Panth from potential Genocide from the Muslims and eradicating pride in ancestry amongst Sikhs in order to create a united Panth).

Harjot Veer and N30 Paji, in respect of a new (Amritdhari) Maryada acceptable to both sides of the spectrum I believe that we should not define ourselves as Sikhs according to the Maryada we follow. Our loyalty to the Sikh Panth and it's primary societal objective of Sarbat da Bhala should be more important than enforcing the respective Maryada's that we believe upon other Sikhs. By so doing we can brush aside all the usual disagreements about Meat consumption, Bhang use, Alcohol consumption, Bachittar Natak, Charitropakiyan, Raagmala, Larrivar, Dera's and focus on the things that can unite us which are destroying the Sikh Panth in the form of a silent Genocide such as female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, drugs, illiteracy and poverty. The simple definition for a Sikh should be what it always was in puratan times - namely anybody who bows down before Guru Sahib. That way we stop referring to the tens of millions of sincere Gurdwara Sangat as non-Sikhs and accept them as fellow sehajdhari brothers and sisters within a stronger, larger and more inclusive Sikh Panth better able to help the weak. Once we get initial Unity on a simple basic point like that with all samparda's and jathebandi's uniting to jointly tackle the social problems afflicting the Sikh Panth by working shoulder to shoulder with pyaar, then after the 2021 Punjab census (where we are currently heading to be a minority by 2021) can a revised attempt be made for an updated Amritdhari Maryada. It's vital that we recognise that there are good Sikhs from across the whole spectrum who might have a different Maryada and slightly different beliefs to us. But what should matter to us is their actions on behalf of the Panth. We need to recognise that all the main samparda's and jathebandi's are infiltrated by anti-Sikh elements in kesdhari roop keen to sow the seeds of dischord. As respectful discussion is good for the Panth but animosity and hatred will destroy us. As the reality boils down to the fact that when the Pakistani Genocide of 1947 occurred and when Congress Genocide of 1984 were perpetrated none of the killers of innocent Sikhs cared about which jathebandi, biraderi or samparda a Sikh had affiliation for. All that mattered is that the innocents were Sikh and hence had to be killed. As our enemies fear everything that Sikhi stands for. United we stand and divided we fall.

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4) "Dasam" Granth ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥ रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥ He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5. ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥ रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥ The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows. ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥ धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥ And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6. ਅੜਿਲ ॥ अड़िल ॥ ARIL ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥ Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon: ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥ जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥ When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7. ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥ लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥ The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule. ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥ भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥ They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥ त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥ O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth Veda, you gave away your kingdom. ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥ तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥ When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in the fourth birth."9. ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥ That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures. ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥ कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥ To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

Respected N30 Paji there is a simple answer to this question. Both sides of the debate revere Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj equally. That much is clear. Some Sikhs can't bear for Dasmesh Pithah to be associated with certain sexual stories, whilst others have such sharda in Dasam Pitha that they would never dream of questioning what they have been told to believe are Guru Sahib's own handwritten stories. So the key is that we all emphasise commonality and agree to disagree given that realistically the two sides will never agree. Those that aggressively promote and have active hatred for the opposing viewpoint are clearly the paid pawns of Hindutva forces. As such an issue should not result in hatred. Thus those instigating physical violence and verbal hatred clearly have an anti-Sikh agenda. And instead let both sides as equally valid members of the Sikh Panth focus joint energy in uniting to fight female infiancide, drugs, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy, cancer, poverty, alcohol abuse and rather than competing by way of fighting inside Gurdwara's let both sides compete to do greater seva and help bring new members in to the Sikh Panth for the benefit of Sarbat da Bhala.

Harjot Paji i have to say the video is a ridiculously weak attempt by those who stitched it together (not yourself) to dodge the issues discussed by Sarbjit Dhunda, simply by juxtaposing clips of Sant Ji and Giani Pinderpal Singh Ji, neither of whom are referring to or addressing any of the points mentioned in my post (in blue) below. As the topic referred to in context is Sri Hemkhunt Sahib which is now the number one tourist/pligrimage yatra for Sikhs from Punjab to visit after Amritsar (ahead of Sri Anandpur Sahib) when Gurmat clearly tells us that Sikhs should not partake in pilgrimages like the Muslims and Hindu's. I fully agree with Sarbjit Dhunda that Sri Anandpur Sahib as the birthplace of the Khalsa Panth holds more historic resonance to the Panth than yatra's to snow-filled glaciers around Sri Hemkhunt Sahib. I fully respect that you might prioritise Sri Hemkhunt Sahib and the whole supposed Dusht Daman history and Sikhs who feel that way are entitled to that view. But for the majority of the Panth the arguable previous life of Guru Sahib (claimed to be as Dusht Daman spent in isolation and prayer around Sri Hemkhunt Sahib) is not relevant (as Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj emphasised physical actions towards Sarbat da Bhala and the eradication of ancestry history and pride) and we should solely focus on Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's lifetime in which they held GurGaddi and initiated the Khalsa Panth. If certain sects wish to focus their attention on debateable previous lives that again is their perogative. Hindutva forces and the RSS-supporting shopkeepers around Sri Hemkhunt Sahib are certainly more than delighted that Sikhs travel there from Punjab to spend their money and acknowledge the Dusht Daman ascetic story whilst none of the money wasted on these pilgrimages is used to fighting the societal problems the Sikh Panth faces in the form of female infanticide, drugs, biraderi apartheid, poverty or illiteracy. Last but not least, you are aware that the clip of Sant Ji using the famous bemukh and nastik line referring to Babbar Khalsa Singhs is wholly irrelevant and from the era when Damdami Taksal supported Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections. As via the Dharam Yuddh Morcha, Sant Ji turned their back on everything that DDT was doing in opposition to the Panth and focussed solely on Unity - whereby those Sikhs previously labelled bemukhs and nastiks came to comprise the majority of shaheeds of June 1984.

Harjot Paji I think the following video contains much of what the disagreement centred upon.

Harjot Paji relax. There is no hate. This is a civilised discussion of two different ideological positions. You believe in the DDT Maryada. Fine. I respect your right to believe that way. However, what you need to appreciate is why the majority of the Sikh Panth do not and will never accept the DDT Maryada. Damdami Taksal are well known and historically documented for having refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs prior to the 1930's. And there of further reports of them having carried out such blatant anti-Sikh discrimination even after that. Then comes DDT's unforgivable support of Indira Gandhi + Congress in the 1980 elections. A decision hated by most of the Panth. If it was not for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, the name Damdami Taksal (first mentioned in the 1970's) would have faded away from Panthic consciousness as the Sanatan sect that refused Amrit to Mazhabi Sikhs and supported Indira Gandhi in the 1980 elections, which in turn led to the next 35 years of suffering for the Panth. So I respectfully ask you to see why other Sikhs that are the majority of the Panth are not open to accepting the DDT Maryada. There is not a shred of hatred and I don't believe Dhumma followers need to abandon their Maryada or respect for Sri Chand. Let all Sikhs believe what they want and let us respect that those that follow a slightly different Maryada can still be considered Sikhs but obviously where some disagree with DDT ideology vis a vis impurity we will all agree to disagree.

Ok Paji fair enough you consider the Sun God dynasty to be real. Each Sikh has the choice to believe in that or the ideology of kul nash advocated by Guru Sahib. But ... are you further aware that Bachittar Natak claims our Guru Sahibaan were all Hindu Kings in previous lives and that these Hindu Kings did a deal on how GurGaddi would be carved up amongst them (like a business deal) in their next incarnations between 1469-1708. Do you not feel that the AKJ, Missionaries, Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale and others forming the majority of the Panth are justified in insisting only those words which are in tandem with Gurmat should be considered authentic Dasam Bani. Note that all 100% of the Panth are united in respect for authentic Dasam Bani. The overwhelming majority of the Panth do not believe that the 600 pages of sexually erotic tales in Charitropakhiyan were written by Guru Sahib. Only the minority Sanatan sects of Damdami Taksal, Nirmale, Udasi's, 3HO, Buddha Dal do. And that was why Sardar Kartar Singh Jhabbar and the Akali Singh Sabha Lehar which freed our Gurdwara's from Hindu Mahant control threw out Charitropakhiyan that the Hindu Mahants were insistent upon reading daily so that the Hindu Mahants prostitutes could girate to it inside Darbar Sahib. The juxtaposition of Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib (which i respect) into Charitropakhiyan is fully documented as having being deliberately done by the British and Arya Samaj sponsored Sodhak Committee of 1897 that was finalised by Amitabh Bachchan's ancestor Khemu Bedi.

Crystal Paji, Harjot Paji and Paapi Ji Are you aware that Bachittar Natak claims that all our Guru Sahibaan were Hindu Kings in their previous lives (from only the two clans of Bedi and Sodhi). It also claims Guru Gobind Singh Ji were descended from the Hindu Avatar King Ram Chander and the mythical Sun God dynasty (SuryaVanshi). Are you further aware that Bachittar Natak claims that these Hindu Kings did a deal on how GurGaddi would be carved up amongst them (like a business deal) in their next incarnations between 1469-1708. Do you not feel that the AKJ, Missionaries, Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale and others are justified in insisting only those words which are in tandem with Gurmat should be considered authentic Dasam Bani. Note that all 100% of the Panth are united in respect for authentic Dasam Bani. The overwhelming majority of the Panth do not believe that the 600 pages of sexually erotic tales in Charitropakhiyan were written by Guru Sahib. Only the minority Sanatan sects of Damdami Taksal, Nirmale, Udasi's, 3HO, Buddha Dal do. And that was why Sardar Kartar Singh Jhabbar and the Akali Singh Sabha Lehar which freed our Gurdwara's from Hindu Mahant control threw out Charitropakhiyan that the Hindu Mahants were insistent upon reading daily so that the Hindu Mahants prostitutes could girate to it inside Darbar Sahib. The juxtaposition of Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib (which i respect) into Charitropakhiyan is fully documented as having being done by the British and Arya Samaj sponsored Sodhak Committee of 1897 that was finalised by Amitabh Bachchan's ancestor Khemu Bedi.

Paapi presumably like Dhumma you fully agree with Damdami Taksal's support for Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections. Damdami Taksal have a different Rahiraas to the majority of the Panth. Why should the Panth accept their Rahiraas? You paapi man are a non-Sikh as you openly proclaim and admit yourself. It's fine if you want to worship Vishnu and Ram Chander but why can't you see that others do not wish to do so. Longowal's Akali Dal, Singh Sabha, AKJ, missionaries etc all fully opposed Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980 elections. Only Damdami Taksal and Santa Sinh's Buddha Dal supported Indira Gandhi. Had Indira Gandhi been defeated in 1980 then the last 35years of suffering the Panth has endured may never have come to pass. This is Damdami Taksal's Rahiraas: (Damdami Taksal worships Ram Chander and Vishnu): ਦੋਹਰਾ॥ ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ॥ ਸੁਰਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ॥1॥ ਚੌਪਈ॥ ਜੋ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੈ ਅਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ॥ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਤਿਹ ਨਿਕਟ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਭਗਤ ਕੀ ਏ ਫਲ ਹੋਈ॥ ਆਧਿ ਬਯਾਧਿ ਛ੍ਵੈ ਸਕੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ॥1॥ (in Roman transliteration): Dohraa Raam kathaa jug jug atal, sabh koee bahkhat nayt. Surg baas raghubar karaa, sagri puree samay. 1 Chaupai Jo ih kathaa sunai aur gaavai. Dookh paap tih nikat naa aavai. Bisan bhagat kee ih phal ho-ee. Aaadhi byadhi chhvai sakai naa ko-ee. 1 (English translation): Dohra The story of Ram will remain known through Ages and all shall ever narrate it. Raghubar (Ram) went to heavens and took his entire city with him. (So, Damdami Taksal worships Ram): Dohra Those who will listen to or sing this (Ram’s) story; sufferings and sins will not come near him. This will be the fruit (profit) of the meditation upon the name of Vishnu. No disease or illness will be able to touch him. 1 (So, Damdami Taksal worships Vishnu also):

Paji it's my understanding that our "percentage" decreased in the 10years between 2001 to 2011. Sikhs (including dera followers who returned themselves as Sikhs) stood at 60% of Punjab population in 2001. Given that Sikhs have the lowest fertility rate of the major religions with female infanticide, drug usage, cancer rates and alcohol related health problems being at record levels ... it seems inevitable to me that the Sikh percentage in Punjab was lower by 2011 than it was in 2001 (when it was 60%). Note that after events in Vienna in 2009 there was a concerted push by Dera Ballan (funded by Congress) to expand their sphere of operations outside of primarily Doaba (where Sikhs are already a minority - and a lot of us Diaspora Sikhs have family links to Doaba). As KD Singh Paji rightly pointed out the 2011 census results have deliberately not been released by the powers that be for over 4 years. My conclusion from that is that if Sikhs were alerted to the fact that we are heading towards becoming a minority in Punjab we would start to do something about it. Our opponents do not want us to wake up and our opponents much rather we continue to listen to rhetoric from non-Sikhs like Paapiman (that excluding as many Sikhs from the Panth is the way to go). Congress politicians have spoken in 2011 of Sikhs being 54% of the Punjab population (but then backtracked when they realised that official statistics have deliberately not been released to disclose this to the general public). Sikhs were 1.87% of the Indian population in 2001 and despite Christians obviously being more than us at over 2% as reported in KD Singh Paji's link i personally suspect Sikhs were around 1.7-1.8% of the Indian population in 2011. Consider that in the context that English-speaking Canada has a similar percentage of Sikhs. And it's a sad indictment on us as ordinary Sikhs (myself included) that we have failed to explain our faith to other non-Punjabi communities (despite four of the Panj Piare being non-Punjabi) and that we always look for reasons to exclude people rather than welcome them (especially if they happen to be sehajdhari non-Punjabi Sikhs). Paji we have always been a minority overall. So in 1800 we were 5% of Punjabi's at best. By 1849 that percentage for Sikhs had doubled to 10% of the Punjabi population. By 1947, Sikhs were 13% of the Punjabi poulation and we still remain at 13% of the population of those area's that comprised Punjab in 1947 (Pakistani Punjab, east Punjab, Haryana, Himachal, Chandigarh). Even in Majha, Malwa and Doaba which comprise current day east Punjab we were a minority until 1947 with only about a third of the population being Sikh. Had so many HP's not falsely declared their mother tongue to be Hindi then Sikhs would have been just under half the population of the newly created Punjabi speaking state in 1966. If memory serves me correct we were in fact 54% then as a result of Punjabi speaking Hindu's having falsely declared their mother tongue to be Hindi (and therefore area's such as Kangra and Ambala thus falling outside of the newly created smaller Punjab). Anybody who believes in Sikhi, knows it to be the Truth and would passionately want it to be not just a majority faith in Majha and Malwa but throughout India. As only with greater numbers can we influence the society around us to be like the Begumpura our Guru Sahib envisaged. If the Sikh Panth does not eradicate all recognition of caste and the associated apartheid from our mindset aggressively within the next 6years then it seems inevitable to me that we will be a minority in Punjab by 2021 with no pretensions to ever help all the hundreds of millions of poor people in India (outside Punjab) or globally that desperately need the Sikh Panth's help ... but we will have our work cut out just dealing with drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty in Punjab only as our opponents will see that it is the magic formula for how to do a silent Genocide of the Sikhs. Instead of terming tens of millions of sincere Gurdwara Sangat as non-Sikhs we need to recognise and respect them as sehajdhari Sikhs as just like our opponents want to reduce us to a minority within even east Punjab, we can rebuild ourself to becoming a 99% majority in east Punjab and 100million strong population throughout India if only retrograde anti-Sikh hinking by the likes of Paapiman and others (who say exactly what Hindutva forces want them to) is rejected and we seek to build a bigger, more inclusive and more welcoming Panth whose agenda is simply Sarbat da Bhala.

I disagee with you Paapi. I strongly believe Satkirin Kaur's advocacy of gender equality is fully in tandem with Gurmat and Sikhi. I don't think for one minute that you as a non-Sikh are defending Sikhism. I think you are very cleverly and very subtly ridiculing Sikhi.

But Paapi Ji you yourself admit that you are a non-Sikh. So Satkirin Kaur has every right to politely expose your anti-Sikh thinking.

My understanding is that a fake cemetery samadh was newly constructed on communal village land in order to fraudulently extract donations from innocent villagers. After the land was shown not to belong to the Muslim Pakhandi who devised the fake cemetery samadh scam, I believe innocent villagers rightfully exposed the fake cemetery samadh for being what it was in accordance with the law.