mrsingh

people turn to astrologers, pandits and clairvoyants  when they have no one else to turn to.
A Sikh always turns to guruji and akal purakh.
If god's superior temple the hari-mandar is within you,..then why go looking outside for answers?
Ardas, hukamnaama and his kirpa is what you should count on....and kirpa doesn't come like no lottery or pure chance, as some wrongly claim-where only some get it and others don't.......you have to 'cultivate' and sow seeds of naam kamayee in order to be kirpa's candidate.
 

Vah ji Vah Beautiful message- if i may by maharaj kirpa point Guru in absolute sense is pure awareness /consciousness / knowledge-light in all of us so its Sadaa Ang Sange Abhangang Bibhoote ||
Those who have beleived- guru maharaj- its jot saroop-atma is always Sadaa Ang Sange Abhangang Bibhoote does not need astrology for their mansic rog (mental hurddles/doubts/pains)

oooh balle balle !!! :)
come on kiddo....listen...this is like saying  "you can go and pay a visit to whore and make enquiries -(gurmat)...but if you agree to become a client for her services then 'that's not gurmat'
 
I'm not sure you understand  that astrology is within ''limitations''...whereas gurmat and sikhi is outside of any boxes of confining dogmas or limits.
 

I just want to know why you are so adamant on going to see a joshi astrologer. 

It wouldn't be fair to compare astrology with medical science. Couple of points-
1. For health issues, we use medical science, ayurveda etc which are acceptable in gurmat as per sikh history/rehitnamas/vidya those who don't have bhagat dhanna type of faith but those who do they beleive in sarab rog ka aukhad naam for all disease
2. For mind related issues- future uncertainty, dilemmas as per sikhi- NAAM is shrimoni, we are advised to naam simran - sarab rog ka aukhad naam

Guru Nanak Patshah says in Bani:
ਗਣਤ ਗਣੀਐ ਸਹਸਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜੀਐ ॥
ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਥੀਐ
Astrological calculations about one's future create suspense or sorrow in one's heart;
But by seeking the Guru's refuge, one always remains in peace and comfort.

there's plenty of software that can do the same!.... and that's what they mostly use nowadays.
It should be free shouldn't it, our guest ?
 

Seriously veer? Why the hell do you need an astrologer for? That shit ain't in sikhi. 

It's generally not advisable to get into knowing the future let the mystery be mystery let it unfold be-de-attached from unfolding mystery-... while you may think knowing future can help dilemma of today, reverse is also quite true as well- knowning future can also open can of worms as well which can cause hindrance to your present moment- power of now- moments of all moments- present moment..so bit of caution is needed.

Why no missionaries? ^ ;)

Great news bro.
The first target of Sikh preachers should be Hindus, as it would be relatively easier to convert Hindus, compared to people who follow the middle eastern religions.
Bhul chuk maaf

So you not only want to keep the wool pulled over your own eyes, but also over everyone else's eyes too eh?  

How can that be a metaphor if it clearly says Guru Nanak gave Ik Oankar and then Hanuman gave Kach, Kaal gave Kard? I mean if it only mentioned devi devte I might have accepted your theory but it clearly is talking about a physical person since it mentions Guru Nanak Maharaj too in the same line and the same context of GIVING something to the ceremony.

People like you can justify anything. fact is that there is no metaphor in the Daya Singh Rehatnama it clearly says

'tab devi pargat hoe' - then the Goddess appeared. it goes on to say that Ik Oankar mantar was given by Guru Nanak, Sarbloh Knife by Kaal, Kach by Hanuman.

Now people like you will say 'Guru Nanak' who gave Ik Oankar mantar was a metaphor too? Either Nanak is the physical person (or Jot) just like all other Hindu Devi Devte who gave something to the Amrit Sanchar ceremony or they're all metaphors which doesn't make sense

I have provided references in countless thread, cba to post them again and again man.

I posted the Katha where Gurbachan says Muhammad stole work of a Brahmin which is actually the Quran... This was also written in Bansawlinama, just goes on to show how Gurbachan just reiterated what he read in unauthentic books. Also lying that Guru Har Rai married 8 sisters and what not man.

Yea sure you can justify everything that Baba Gurbachan says the same way some Muslims justify beheadings. Yea metaphors right, just like Daya singh rehatnama CLEARLY saying Hindu devi devte came and gave kakkars to Guru Gobind Singh. Thats metaphors too lol

If I prove one point wrong of Gurbachan its enough to prove that he was not infallible and thus made more mistakes. Why did Taksal and Gurbachan Singh say that reciting Gurbani while walking is bad and even invented sakhis to justify his point? Why did he contradict gurbani? Why did he indirectly attack the concept of Nagar Kirtans?

Be honest, would you guys stay still if the same allegations had been made by a missionary? Its so funny to see these double standards.

Your Sant Ji just copied his allegations from Bansawlinama. Time to actually introspect and realise that your Sants only state what they have read, they have no so called illumination getting knowledge from Dhur like Guru Jis.

Same way Gurbachan Singh said Hanuman gave Kachehra just like old books and Rehatnama Daya Singh.

Accept these facts.

^^
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking

Last year when I was in India my cousin drove me around on a scooter showing me the beautiful Punjab villages on the road side.. At one time we passed a village and he pointed at it saying that only a decade ago it was a hindu village, but now the people had turned to Sikhi. That was quite interesting to see shifts in religion at local levels.

Cheers man. Delighted to read.
A local uncle told me that many of the Bihari workers in Punjab have also started to convert to Sikhi and take up jobs in the Gurdwaras. Though he says many of them merely see it as a job, their kids are raised as keshdhari Sikhs attending Gurdwara and learning Gurmukhi etc.

Since amardeepu likes such news, I have a collection on my USB:
 
 
Over 200 Dalits Convert to Sikhism in MP
NDTV correspondent reported last May from Guna, Madhya Pradesh
In Madhya Pradesh’s Guna and Vidishia district more than two hundred Dalits have converted to
Sikhism in order to free themselves of discrimination by the upper castes - a tradition that has
been prevalent for years. Though this has not yet led to a change of mindset, more Dalits look all
set to convert to Sikhism. 80 year old Dangal Rai is now Dangal Singh. All his life, he says, he
has suffered discrimination from upper castes Hindus and has now decided to convert to
Sikhism.
We were not allowed to enter the temples and were shunned by everybody, said Dangal Singh.
The village of Deomari is VIP constituency in every sense of the word. It is part of Jyotiraditya
Scindia’s parliamentary constituency and also part of the Raghogarh assembly constituency
represented by Chief minister Digvijay Singh. But here, too, Dalits have been traditionally
discriminated against and four families in this alone have converted to Sikhism. Many of the
villagers say their first introduction to the religion came when migrant labour from the village
went to Punjab.Conversions have since been reported from 11 villages in Guna district and four villages in
Vidisha district. In January 2002 alone 42 people converted. In March at least 200 people
converted, said Giani Bhajan Singh, Guru Singh Sabha, Guna. (MP)
Dalits here are still learning to tie the turban and the basics of their new religion but the outward
changes have yet to bring a change of the mindset through which others see them. Even today,
after conversions, we still have problems. We are still shunned and humiliated. said Nishan
Singh. Pracharaks have yet to instil the heroic spirit of Sikhism.
[Courtesy Sarbhpreet Singh]

The Dalit tag still sticks despite converting to Sikhism




By Imran Khan, Patna, June 9 : It is a centuries-old ignominy they wanted to escape by converting to Sikhism in Punjab and found new respect there. But back home in Bihar, the tag of Dalit refused to leave them.



Many Dalit labourers who migrated to Punjab for work years ago and converted toduring their stay there are upset that they are still being categorised as Scheduled Caste in government records after they returned to their native villages in Bihar.

Sanjay Singh, who converted to Sikhism during his years-long stay in Punjab and sports a colourful turban and a long beard, says local and district administration officials in Bihar are not ready to accept him as a Sikh. Guru the founder of Sikhism, preached against discrimination and prejudices on the basis of caste, class and status.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/25333-dalit-tag-still-sticks-despite-converting.html

"The government officials are still treating us as Rishideo of the Musahar caste (the poorest Dalit community known as rat eaters), not as Sikhs, despite our efforts to convince them," Singh told IANS, adding that he was yet to be termed a Sikh in the government records despite repeated requests.

Singh said that about two decades ago his close relative Naren Rishideo left for Punjab to earn a livelihood and converted to the Sikh religion, becoming Naren Singh. His example was followed by most of those of his caste men working there.

"We tasted dignity, respect and equality after we converted. Before that, we were treated as low caste, sometimes even inferior to animals, by the upper caste and backward caste people in the village," Sanjay Singh said.

He said most of the women members of their families have now started using the Kaur surname.

Rup Singh and Manish Singh, who also converted to Sikhism, are no longer keen to be known as Rishideos and want that they should be treated as Sikhs in government records.

"We changed our religion to get rid of the stigma of untouchablity and to live a life with pride. We were happy to return to our village. Local people, barring a few, accepted us as Sikh, but in the government records and caste certificates we have the same old Dalit tag," Rup Singh told IANS.

Soon after they returned to their village Halhalia in Araria district, nearly 400 km from Patna, they were shocked to learn that despite the change of religion they would have to fight another battle to upgrade their social status in official records.

"All the Dalits who converted to the Sikh religion are still Dalits in the caste certificate and we are being denied the status of the Sikhs," Rup Singh said.

Manish Singh, another convert, says that they are no longer Dalits after embracing the Sikh religion and they should instead be treated as minorities as Sikhs are a minority community in the country.

A large number of migrant labourers from Bihar who converted to Sikhism in Punjab and stayed back there hardly face any identity problem, but the converts who returned to their native villages in Bihar are facing a different discrimination, Manish Singh said.

Araria district magistrate Anjani Kumar Verma, when asked about the problem, told IANS over telephone that he was not aware of the matter.

"So far no such complaint has come to my notice. If there is anything like it, the district administration will do justice with them," Verma said.

Over 200 Dalit villagers of half a dozen villages including Kamta Balia, Gurumuhi, and Parmanpur under the Khwaspur panchayat (village council) have already converted to Sikhism. They have set up a gurdwara with support of the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC), while some Sikhs from New Delhi are helping them to maintain it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25333


--- IANS
 

A VILLAGE OF AMRITDHARIS (this time Punjab)

PANTHIC.ORG  | Published on December 12, 2007

Amritdhari Residents of the Chabrewal Village
Rupnagar, Nurpur Bedi (KP) -  Recently, a local Punjabi newspaper published an inspiring article about a particular Punjab village in the foothills of the Shivaliks that has rapidly accepting the Sikhi way of live, en masse - a trend that is opposite of what is happening in rest of Punjab.  Perhaps this unique village can inspire others accross Punjab to return to their Sikhi roots.
Village Chabrewal is a small village in Nurper Bedi situated in the hills of Shivalik.  Because of its small size, this village goes unnoticed by the rest of the world and it enjoys a simple lifestyle--remaining aloof from worldly facilities and luxuries.  During one time, this village, which is mostly populated with the people of the Gujjar clan, was known for its people’s smoking and drinking habits--but now, it has been completely transformed by conversions of people who have chosen to adopt the Sikh faith.  Amritdhari men and women can be spotted easily upon entering the village.
The population of this village remains scarce, at about 250, but Mela Ram has now become Mela Singh, Jog Raj has now become Jog Raj Singh and Dolat Ram has now become Dolat Singh.  At least one member of every family has taken up the Sikh way of life by adopting the path shown by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
According to Jog Raj Singh, the Chief of this Village, Sikh influence was brought here by a person named Mela Ram.  Mela Ram, Son of Babu Ram, was the first person to be baptized into the Khalsa Panth. Afterwards, he inspired many others as well.  Not only have the ordinary villagers taken up the Sikh way of life, many of the village’s amritdharis are eminent public figures.
Prof. Jaswinder Singh who teaches religious studies at the Kalgidhar Kanea School Kahnpur Khuhi said that Baba Dalip Singh Samirowal and Baba Gurcharan Singh, who performed seva of a historical shrine relating to the life of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, played a big role in nurturing Sikhi in this village.   In addition, Sikh Missionary College (Anandpur Sahib), Baba Channan Singh Suara and Principal Prem Singh Heerpur have continued to hold Gurmat related classes for the people which have helped many people.  Jaswinder Singh said that 1999 was a crucial year for the village as during this year, a large number of people became attached to bani and bana.
This area of the Shivalik Hills has been blessed with ‘charan-choh’ (presence and touch of the Holy Lotus feet) of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.  At Gurdwara Kataar Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Ji blessed the father of Baba Sangat Singh Ji with a kataar.  Seva of this Gurdwara Sahib was organized by Baba Labh Singh Ji who handed the control of this shrine to the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee.  Sikh Sangat visits this historical shrine in big numbers during the annual nangar kirtan and on special monthly programs.
(Original story appeared in the Punjabi version of Ajit)
 
RECENT NEWS of Madhya Pradesh:
 

Old news, there are loads of converts in Madhya Pradesh and Bihar, UP. To the extent that BJP once demanded a ban on dalits converting to other religions citing conversion to Sikhi. Same thing happened in Pakistan where Hindu fundamentalist have created a divide between Sikhs and Hindus because of the latter embracing Sikhi en masse (by taking amrit, not sehajdhari form anymore)

How many times have I heard jatts use the term "bihari bhaiya" in a derogatory term. 
We all need to unute under the Nishaans of maharaj whether you are tava face, peasant, wood worker, road sweaper & even shoe cobbler. 
Crystal

Add THE POOR DISCRIMINATED HINDU BIHARIS CONVERT TO SIKHISM IN BIHAR, INDIA
Posted by Amarjit Singh on March 31, 2011 at 16:30 View Blog  It’s a nondescript temple at Halhalia village in Bihar’s Araria district. It doesn’t have an idol; a mound of earth in one corner of the roofless one-room shrine represents Din Bhadri Devi, the local deity. Its walls are bare, but for priest Amlanand Rishidev, there is a more pressing problem than the upkeep of the temple: there is no one to inherit his priesthood. Halhalia village is home to over 100 families of which 28 have converted to Sikhism.So have about a hundred families in several adjoining villages of the district, including Parwanpur, Godbelsara, Bakhri and Maudhabalia. Amlanand, however, isn’t bitter about the “gradual obliteration of faith”. His only son Nirdosh Singh and his family have also converted to Sikhism. The men sport straggly beards, wear saafas and have kirpans slung across their shoulders. The women still wear saris and on special occasions they slip into the traditional salwar-kurta. Pidgin Punjabi can be heard everywhere, even though the womenfolk have never visited Punjab.The first to convert was Gyani Narendra Singh Rishidev, who visited Punjab in 1985 to earn a living and converted to Sikhism a few years later. “We have a natural leaning for this religion. After all, Guru Gobind Singh was born in Patna,” he says. Upon returning to his village, the 38-yearold inspired many of his folk to convert. The lone gurdwara here stands on Narendra’s inherited land.The Rishidevs in Araria belong to the Mushahar caste, the poorest Dalit community known as untouchable rat-eaters. By changing their religion, Dalits believe they get a distinct identity. Narender’s younger brother Sanjay is more vocal about the “inequality” practised in Hindu society.“Upper caste folks still don’t share their meals with us. Even today, many of them abhor us. Our conversion to Sikhism is a cry for human dignity. It denounces discrimination and prejudice on the basis of caste, class and status,” he says. These conversions also make economic sense. Many of these neo-converts have now found regular work at gurdwaras in Punjab. “But this is not why we have embraced Sikhism. In fact, like other devout Sikhs, we also do kar sewa and donate one month of service,” insists Narender.Sanjay’s criticism is not entirely off the mark. These conversions are not aimed at puncturing the reform balloon; they put a question mark on Dalit reforms instead. For instance, though the Bihar State Board of Religious Trusts led by its administrator Acharya Kishore Kunal has made significant effortsby introducing a dozen “untouchables” into priesthood, it is unlikely to make real changes on the ground.Even the state Government’s highly touted “slew of welfare measures for the Mahadalits” is yet to percolate beyond symbolic fault-lines. Kunal, a former IPS officer, believes that these conversions suggest “freedom of practising a religion”. “Hinduism is all inclusive. We espouse sangat-pangat (eating and worshipping together) to bridge the social divide. Besides, everyone is free to practise a religion of his choice,” he says.Caste imbalances, discrimination and power play have remained central to Bihar society though the politics of social justice and the politicians preaching it have made significant gains over the years.Notwithstanding the laws banning discrimination, caste violence occurs at regular intervals in the state. Police records suggest that the number of atrocities against Scheduled Castes (SCs) and Scheduled Tribes (STs) hasn’t gone down despite Chief Minister Nitish Kumar’s claims. It’s the Government’s affirmative action (read job reservation) policy for SCs and STs that has, to an extent, improved their social status and economic conditions.