CdnSikhGirl

The graphic I found earlier says it best. "I do not hate men. I hate assholes. There is a difference!" Assholes seek to limit women. Men seek to empower women. My husband is a Man :)

^^^ don't get mad ...get even! I like it! What’s the difference between a knife and an argumentative misogynist? A knife has a point. -----

Not likely. I can't even fathom it. It would be the biggest betrayal anyone can experience. My husband and I have a huge spiritual / emotional connection way beyond anything physical. I am sure I never have to worry about it but just thinking how badly that would hurt ..one can't even put in words. I know you guys think I hate men and such... Well I don't. And I love my husband more than I thought it was possible to love someone. I'd do anything for him. And he would do the same for me. So for me, I can't imagine enduring that kind of betrayal. Just please everyone on here, don't ever think of doing such a thing to your other half. This is my proof that sex is not merely a physical act for producing a baby and physical pleasure. It's a very deep connection to your spouse on multiple levels. If it were just for producing babies with the side effect of physical pleasure, that in my mind reduces the act to something trivial. Something trivial could never create such deep bonding and emotions and spiritual connection between two people. Just please don't ever think of cheating on your spouse.

I thought "nindya" meant untrue ie slander... this is not untrue. Paapiman did in fact say those things and will gladly verify them for you. And I was responding to das' post immediately above. And Paapiman saying that being born a woman was karmic punishment and a downgrade to a male body, was what was shameful. But replying to his specific post above aside, I posted the jokes for everyone else. That response was meant specifically for him. And nowhere in there is anything pointing to hatred of men. At all. There was no argument. I was trying to ascertain how he feels about us and if what he said above about karmas, was in line with what Paapiman had said before. I still find it funny how men can openly want to see women pushed into subordinate roles and thats somehow not seen as sexist or women hating. But if a woman just wants to have equal opportunity as men, she is seen as a man hater! And simply reiterating something someone posted openly on here, is seen as "nindya" which means slander (something which is false) even though that person would gladly say the same again, showing its not false at all. Basically anything you disagree with is seen as bad and evil. Okay so all the women should be submissive obedient little slaves for men and men should have all the privileges in the world and women should just shut up and take their lot right? Ok I am going to kill myself now - congratulations you juts made me realize how much I hate being female and its not worth living. And the ridiculousness of your post becomes apparent when you realize this thread is by sexist men posting jokes about women! What was that again about a racist posting jokes about black etc?? Teapot calling the kettle black!!!! btw if you can dish out the jokes expect to get them back at some point.

Those women slap like kids. I'd hang him by his you know whats if I was her! Not slap like a kid... ...Actually... its more likely I'd probably feel hugely betrayed and end my life. Marriage is commitment for life. I don't think there is any way possible to reconcile once cheating happens. Precisely because sex is more than a physical act to produce children.

Hmmm but I'm not a feminist. I'm a humanist. I am against ALL discrimination. Equality across the board. I'm not looking to put women on a pedestal over men LOL. Your comment *might* make sense if I hated men. I don't. Actually your point would maybe make sense if the jokes were about men to start with (by women) and men who were all for subordination of women started to make jokes about women. Because the men in that case are for discrimination of women. I am NOT for discrimination of men. I'm only for equal treatment of both. That is a big difference. So joke away!

My favourite shabad (Acapella Jatha)

Hmm ok so Bhagat Singh Ji, the vibe changed when men became the brunt because before the jokes were on women and none of us were here... now that we are posting jokes about men what you are saying is, now that we are posting these and you as a man don't find them funny when men are the subject of the jokes? Liven up, if you can dish it out always be prepared to receive it too. Thats what we say in the Navy :)

A man is intensively washing his jeans, mumbling: - You cannot trust anyone these days! Not a single person! Even yourself... I was only trying to fart. ----- A wife tries to teach the dog to sit up. After a few fails her husband tells: - Darling, forget it, you won't succeed... - Don't worry - replies his wife - in the beginning it was difficult with you as well. ------ Men are like ... Placemats. They only show up when there's food on the table. ------ Men are like... Government bonds. They take so long to mature. ------ OFFSPRING Ah, children. A woman knows all about her children. She knows about dentist appointments and soccer games and romances and best friends and favorite foods and secret fears and hopes and dreams. A man is vaguely aware of some short people living in the house

What's wrong? Are they only funny and light hearted when it's the wife who is the brunt of the jokes??? LOL

Definition of "Single": Men who make jokes about women and kitchens! (See also related words: "Divorced" and "Dog House"). --- A husband and wife get a new computer and when prompted by the new computer to enter a password the husband enters "mypenis" Computer responds "Sorry. That is not Long enough." The wife just about dies laughing! --- If at first you don't succeed, try doing it the way your wife told you to begin with! --- What has two legs and bleeds? A Husband who thinks he's superior to his wife.

A few more... On the blackboard, an English Professor wrote the words: A woman without her man is nothing He asked his students to punctuate it correctly. All the males wrote: "A woman without her man, is nothing." All the females wrote: "A woman: Without her, man is nothing." There was a science teacher sitting in the back, and much to the male student's chagrin, he admitted the female students were correct. Without women giving birth, men would not even be here (hmm sounds a lot like what Guru Nanak Dev Ji said!! And then he told the male students to remember that women can function just fine on their own, while they are sleeping outside in the dog house. Which brings me to this: Dictionary definition of the word "Single"

Das do you (like Paapiman) think that being born female is a karmic punishment? He came straight out and said in other parts of this site that being born in a female body is a downgrade to a male body and thats why men are higher status than women in Waheguru's eyes. And he says that why men deserve more respect than women... I guess because our whole lives are seen as a punishment? That would suppose however that all women hate being women. Many do. But some love the bond they share with their children that men just don't seem to have. Women have power to create and give live (men contribute instructions but its the woman who has the power to actually build a whole new human out of her own body - and women can actually do this without male sperm now). Night and day coexist yes, but one does not have privilege over the other or is seen as in authority over the other. You could say they each rule 50% of the time. Perfect balance. So why is the duality of male and female always seen as male in charge and women subordinate and must obey and be submissive to the male's orders and wishes?? Perhaps is some of this our own doing as cultural baggage, while the genders are supposed to be 50% co-heirs and rulers of the world as in night and day? Or do you believe women are in a perpetual punishment their whole lives like Paapiman has said?? Now some Singhs on here tried to justify mens authority, etc by saying well women live longer than men usually so that makes up for things and women should just be greatful... well....

hands down I love Acapella Jatha. They are sisters I think... I realize their sound may not be traditional but I get shivers listening to them. Google Acapella Jatha's video on youtune for Ho Bal Bal Jao (the video has a blue background with a khanda) and you will see what I mean.

Thats why I just grab m guitar and start playing / singing "waheguru" over and over trying different chord runs. But as I said, you dont even need an instrument. You don't need to be on key, or worry about what people think. Find a place where it's you alone, try at amrit vela. And just sit there eyes closed and start singing waheguru. There really is no need to make it complicated LOL. Like Nike says just do it! Even 10 mins a day has huge benefit! As for 3HO though I am not 3HO member, I have no problem with what they do, so long as they take care in not disrespecting SGGSJ. Like putting back to SGGSJ while teaching a yoga class. Or bowing to idols, or openly supporting Amritdhari Couples marrying around a Hindu sacred fire with red dots on their forehead (in Rishikesh - the photos of which are available online) or showing 3HO Amritdhari members doing shiv lingam worship (photos also available online). Using gurbani as mantra I don't have a problem with... I often repeat Mool Mantra over and over with guitar (same way Acapella Jatha does it) as well or aad guray nameh (like Singh Kaur - now deceased - did it). --- However as you know I am huge supporter of how they have females as Panj Pyaras ;) photos of that is also available online! Myself I don't follow any specific Jatha. Just Sikh Rehet Maryada. I took Amrit at a historical Gurdwara in Kashmir not associated with any jatha or sect - Gurdwara Chatti Patshahi in Srinagar. (btw even though the panj pyaras that day were males, they spoke directly to us women that day saying there is nothing in Gurbani saying we can't attain same level as males and they WANT (acctually support and desire) to see some of us women who were there that day taking Amrit, in their place someday administering Amrit as Panj Pyaras. ;) So there is no 'fight' there (reference your other post - we dont need to get back into it just wanted to say...LOL). Many Singhs DO in fact support us on equal level! And hearing it from them (actual males) is HIGHLY encouraging and empowering!!!!! Just the naysayers seem to be louder on the internet haha!!! Back to simran, that and trying to learn shabads (mostly from acapella jatha) is how I have been trying to improve my pronounciation of gurbani. Its good practice, and small errors (blame it on my Canadian accent) are usually easier hidden when you are singing :) My FAVOURITE shabad is Ho Bal Bal Jao and I learned it like Acapella Jatha do it (google it - its amazing!!!) Again I use guitar while they used harmonium in that one.

If you could please register so I can send you my personal contact details it would be great! On the India side, my contact is a Doctor there who lives / works in a community several hours outside Jammu and that area being fairly remote would be a great place to trial it. As for the first responder setup itself, I can help with that as I have actually volunteered with St John Ambulance myself as a first responder for last 6 years. So I have experience with what training is required, and what kit is required - that being full BLS pack - backpack format is best. (My personal kit is packed in a 35L traverse rescue pack made by Ferno and holds all the necessary supplies for taking vitals - bp cuff, stethoscope, pen light, etc, dressings, bandages, sam splints, triangular bandages, chem ice packs, we even carry glucometer and strips and individual lancets, ASA for cardic issues, and fast acting glucose gel. Also in there I have pocket mask and minor airways like NPAs and OPAs. I also carry a finger pulse oximeter so I can get O2 sats at ambient air and then on O2 to pass along on the PCR. And also an adjustable c collar fits in there as well) Additionally, O2 should be part of this for it to be effective along with non rebreather masks and nasal cannulae for pats with COPD to administer lower flow rates. One 'sector' would need likely at least 2 tanks to have a rotation to refill. One D size tank lasts 16 min full out at 15L with a 500 reserve. That should give enough time for an ambulance to arrive when they would take over with their own O2. And also a basic AED system. Depending on what system the ambulances use, I recommend the Medtronic Lifepack for the main reason that that is usually what Ambulances carry (here anyway) and so the pads are compatible. They can literally unplug from the AED and plug into their full Lifepack system. Zoll AEDs for example are not compatible and requires ripping off the pads from the patient, and putting new ones when Ambulance crews take over. Also, an easy to fill out Patient Care Report is essential for the first responders for vitals etc. As this info can literally save a life, especially if the Pt initially conscious becomes unconscious before the ambulance arrives. That info that the first resppnder can get (allergies, History ect are vitally important in that case!) So I can help with the actual first responder system on the India side. The doctor interested there is my husbands first cousin and he is keen on it as well. Big things we need are: Funding for the supplies and maintenance of them. And volunteers. The volunteers become trained, donate their time a day here or there on 'duty' with the pager or cell and all the kit. Some of the volunteers would be trained to be instructors in the same training. So that eventually the system would be self sufficient as far as training new volunteers. So this CAN work!!! Please register and contact me via PM and I will send you my contact details for whatsapp. And thanks for your interest!!!

Well, I don't think there hs to be certain way to specifically do it. In UK there is a program where they do simran for 12 hours straight. (not the same person! LOL) DIfferent people take turns. They all do it their own way. One group called Acapella Jatha, did it their own unique way and is one of the most beautiful I have ever heard. They use a piano keyboard rather than harmonium, and it makes it way more relaxed. Others like a group called Qi Rattan do it by guitar. The point is to repeat Gods name. As long as it's done with devotion, I don't think it you are being graded on it. Nor do I think you even need an instrument with it. Just do it from the heart. Here is the one from Acapella Jatha. Be sure to listen at least a few mins into it as the girls actually sing in harmony to each other. It's beautiful! I have used this version to adapt it to my own way but I do it on guitar as I play guitar.

I have to say that nam simran during Amrit vela in company of Sangat at our gurdwara when we had samagam was hugely powerful. How close is the gurdwara to you? Maybe suggest a program to do it there?

This is where you are wrong. I would do anything for my husband. It's not about not serving him or not. It's about how disheartened and hurt I would feel if he felt the one person Waheguru has brought to him to spend his life with, did not also deserve the same respect from him. Otherwise why be with him? I didn't get married to have a master. I got married to have a life partner, so we can help each other on the same path. Sometimes I lead sometimes he leads. Sometimes we walk side by side. I personally think husbands who leave the dishes after a meal to go sit on their butt and watch tv, leaving their wife with all the work (because they view menial tasks as women's work) to be s huge disrespect to the wife. Sure its not wrong of the wife to still do them. She may even feel happy doing them and serving him. But it doesn't change that it is a huge huge huge disrespect to her by her husband. And it shows her how he views her... his personal servant. Most couples now both work. And even if they dont both work, the husband still ate the meal she prepared lovingly for him. Least he can do is scrub a few dishes so they get done faster and she can have more free time to spend WITH HIM! --- Again this was way off topic. Lets go back to the original post: As for the original post. My thoughts are: If you want to practice abstinence don't get married at all. You can't possibly have a platonic husband and wife relationship when you are acting like brother and sister. There just won't be that deeper intimacy and connection at all. Sex in marriage is not just for making a baby. If you are that disgusted by a natural function why not just do IVF Invitro Fertilization? Then privates don't even need to touch at all! A single woman can even have a baby that way without sex! Sex is NOT INHERENTLY SINFUL! But it's being treated as such! We NEED to get away from this thought! Waheguru ji CREATED SEX as a means to express LOVE between a husband and wife. Proof is in the fact that two people in love want to express that love physically. Not for mere physical pleasure but for the CLOSENESS and AFFECTION. How can LOVE and AFFECTION be seen as SIN???????? It's NOT sex which is sinful. It's MISUSE of sex which is sinful! The whole reason WHY it becomes sinful is not because sex is sinful!!!!! It's because then you have taken something which is meant to express love between two people and turned it into something trivial and for only physical pleasure. Sex is not only for producing a baby. Otherwise, the fertilization rate would be 100% on first try!!! The mere fact that its not, shows that nature INTENDED (and therefore Waheguru intended) that it be done for more than just conception. Nature is encouraging couples to do this more than one time. The couple share an intimacy and bond of LOVE AND AFFECTION each time. It brings them closer as a couple. Yes it's possible to do this, while not planning to have a baby at that moment. It's a FAR bigger sin to bring baby after baby into the world when they all can not b afforded monetarily etc. or that another pregnancy might kill the Mother etc. Family Planning has been said to be very much allowed in Sikhi. I looked at MANY MANY resources online and they ALL say family planning is fine. Sex between husband and wife is FINE as long as it stays between husband and wife only!!!! In that context. One of expressing love with your spouse. Exploring each others bodies is perfectly fine. I don't see anything wrong with it. It's still being done in LOVE AND AFFECTION between HUSBAND AND WIFE ONLY. If the OP intended to ask about Oral Sex as a way to have relations prior to or outside marriage they are sorely mistaken. If people like Paapiman dislike sex. Fine they can choose to be celibate. But don't get married and try to be a celibate! Just do everyone a favour and remain alone. Practice asceticism etc whatever your fancy is. But know that those things are NOT what bring you to God. Gurbani says so!!! In fact I think a husband and wife in a healthy marriage, have MUCH more chance to find God together working to help each other along the way... even if they have sex every night ahahahah than a person who goes tot he woods and remains alone to avoid sex... something created by Waheguru Ji... as a show of being 'Holier than Thou'

When they are home yes. If they eat, then they can help do the dishes afterward. That way the husband and wife might actually have some time together. Instead of the wife being left to clean all the dishes while the husband watches tv or reads the newspaper etc.

You do know WHY you have the freedom to go out and work and study to be an engineer now don't you?? Because without people speaking up to give women chance to have education and a career, you would have been EXPECTED to not pursue higher studies, marry young, stay at home and serve the husband. You are only able to go to University and pursue a career as an Engineer now, because other women fought (yes with men) for women's rights to education and equal opportunity with employment. You can't on the one hand say that you don't want to argue and just want to be humble and drop ego by not fighting with men (which really sounds like you have just given up), and then complain that you are unable to find employment or be accepted into masters program. There was a time when as a woman you would have no chance at all to do either, and it was men who said so. You would have been seen as inferior, and not smart enough to do it. You would have been told your place is in the kitchen at home and raising babies. And you would never have been given opportunities to even compete with men in that field at all let alone ever be placed in a workplace where you might have men working beneath you! (That would have been seen as scandalous) If you want to just give up and not argue with men and don't care if you are seen as inferior then just get married and be a housewife, and serve your "Parmeshwar"--- I mean husband. There is a HUGE difference between being humble and just accepting defeat / inferiority. Oppressors never give freedom to those oppressed, until those oppressed demand it. That is a quote I cant remember who it was by. Anyway this is way off topic of oral sex!!! Enough said.

Yes this life is about following what our Gurus taught. One of that was fighting injustice. There are probably Singhs on here right now snickering how you have been properly whipped. You sound like you have given up. Yes the little things very much do matter because those little Things multiply into demeanours and attitudes. They lead to situations where men always got more, were entitled to more etc. This attitude developes subtly into more serious things like hitting wives etc and thinking 'oh I'm a man she is just a woman so it's ok' it turns into things like women being viewed as impure because of natural functions. Women being seen as weak and incapable and so not given same opportunity for jobs. Preference for male children and so female infanticide and abortion. These attitudes start at home right from childhood. If your little boy sees you telling your daughter 'hey it's ok of daddy is superior to me' that boy grows up devaluing women and your daughter thinks she is worthless. And the results don't stay at home. Why is Panj pyara seva important? Because it's the leadership position. Telling women they aren't good enough tells them they are not able to lead. Since major decisions made by Panj pyaras that means women have no say in major decision making. Keeping women from gurdwara management does the same thing. Keeping women From leadership and authority positions means women never have any influence or say. Then men start accusing and if women speak up they are called nagging. And if they subtly try to sway decisions they are called deceitful. It comes down to one thing. Men want power and they don't want women to have any. And of course many are not like this! And NO progress would have been made without people actually speaking against atrosities against women and Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the first!!!!! Our Gurus spoke out against it! And we should as you say follow what they have done!! You may see no parallel between big atrosities and a husband thinking he is superior but it ALL starts at home with the attitude that men are better than women and children learning this! If you want to exhibit Stockholm syndrome then go ahead. I will always fight against injustice. In another thread you describe how you feel like a failure for not getting a job or making it to masters program. Some men think women were never meant to work and should stay home and just serve men anyway. So maybe you should just ask your parents to marry you off so you cAn stay at home and serve a man who thinks he is superior to you?? Still feel like a failure?? You can do his dishes and clean up after him while he makes all the decisions and considers you inferior and you can explain to your daughter someday why. *****. Keep in mind I know majority of men are not ANYTHING like the above and I exaggerated to make a point but still male hatred of women is subtle but very evident in some!!! And the desire to always have the upper hand and control or more privilege than women is very evident especially on this forum! The only reason we aren't still throwing ourselves in funeral pyres and being locked in a room during menstruation etc is because our Gurus spoke out against it! We can NEVER let things go backwards!!! Also we must uphold Sikh Rehet Maryada which says nothing is barred to women. And Gurbani says "As Gurmukh look upon ALL with single eye of equality for in each and every heart the divine light is contained." How can you do that if you teach your daughter she is worth less than her brothers? Or if you teach sons it's ok to think they are superior to their sisters?

The only problem I see with this is that if you say nothing, nothing will ever change. You can't just expect that he will see the error of his ways and all of a sudden start helping you with the dishes one day. You have to speak up if you want him to do his part.

@kdsingh80 I don't think that thug culture resulted from women working and studying. I think it was more likely that it resulted from illicit drug trade etc. And you said women STILL do all the work raising children. What I am advocating is EQUAL participation raising children by both Mother and Father. Bonding by BOTH parents and BOTH parents having chance to work as well. Either by alternating hours working schedules etc. Of course it leaves less time for them to be together as a couple but it CAN be managed. Or if you happen to have other family members like grandparents who are retired and can also help out.

Exactly! Sex between husband and wife = ok (regardless of how that couple wishes to share intimacy, and does not have to solely be for procreation). Sex under any other circumstance (with any other person than your spouse) is wrong. It got off topic because the idea of oral sex obviously not being for procreation. So the conversation went to the question, is sex for only procreation only, meaning oral sex would be prohibited. That led to the question then, what is the purpose of marriage and are women only there just to be incubators (birthing machines just to continually pop babies out their entire adult life) and what role men have in childrearing. dalsingh ji brought in the idea of gayness... I think because he is in disagreement with sex = only for procreation and thinks those who believe so are closet homosexuals not wanting to have sex with their arranged marriage wives (if I understood him correctly). I think the discussion was more natural progression of topics related to the original than getting off topic. lol Agreed oral sex itself is not even mentioned. And Gurbani does not say anything about what is allowed or not during sex or that sex is only for making babies. Excessive sexual desire (lust) for solely physical pleasure is looked down upon. Not because it's a 'sin' (I thought Sikhi didn't have concept of sin like Abrahamic religions) but because the five evils lust included, are stumbling blocks in your spiritual journey. Sex unbridled and misused would obviously hinder your connection to the divine. Whereas a loving relationship with your spouse where sex is an expression of that love and in moderation, is entirely different.