CdnSikhGirl

That depends on what you consider to be girly? Why is it that the job of a nurse was always seen as girly while that of a doctor is seen as manly?? Who decided that? In reality, nurses go through four years of university learning MUCH of the same things doctors do! There are many male nurses today. But at one time, it was seen as girly for them to be. This 'view' was entirely created by society. It's an illusion. Because doctors were seen as the authority figures and nurses acted on the authority of the doctors, it was seen in this light. Also the fact that the doctors did little actual dirty work (like cleaning up someone who has shat themselves for an example) so the dirty menial work was seen as a woman's job. But who came up with the idea that woman do the menial simple and dirty tasks, while under the authority of males, while the males do the authoritative jobs? It's entirely created by society and society's views of women, and how that society values its women. If from the start both genders were allowed to be doctors and both genders were allowed to be nurses, without it being seen as scandalous if a man god forbid took an order from a woman... then there would be an entirely different view. Of course society now is getting over that. But we have a LONG way to go! For the record, I know male nurses, they love their job, they are put under just as much stress (especially in the ER) and they are not gay or seen as girly at all. I guess my point is, lets remove these illusory labels we have created, that says this is a male thing or that is a female thing. Why can't things just be things?? Also, your very statement above "how many women want to be with a guy who is girly" illustrates my point. It makes the statement that 1) being a girl is bad while being a boy is good 2) uses all of the cultural and societal things which we created as the criteria to decide what makes one 'girly'. If we stop saying that being open with one's emotions is being 'girly' and is just call it a human trait, then a guy won't be labelled 'girly' for being open with his emotions, but instead just be seen as human. Also its been proven that cultures which empower their girls and train them to fight and defend themselves, is hugely positive. Societies with submissive helpless women brought up to be obedient to men and incapable to defend themselves, the women are that way because its how they have been conditioned. If I have a girl, you can bet she won't get dollies and toy vacuum cleaners and play kitchens. She will have chemistry sets, microscope, telescopes, her own tools, even cars etc. so she can learn actual skills. And she will be enrolled in tae kwon do from a young age. By the way many men like dominant women too. And two dominants does not mean clashes. It just means they both respect each other on equal level. Instead of one being placed in inferior or subordinate role.

LOTS of people take odd jobs while awaiting their dream job or even related job to their degree! I know MANY Sikh guys who came here to go to University for their Masters etc, and were working at restaurants or call centre in their spare time to make some money to have for recreation etc. Taking these jobs didnt hurt their ego at all trust me! And they were able to make friends, make work contacts, and just learn some responsibility and discipline! For example, if you work in a call centre it will help eventually as life experience even in your career as an engineer because you will take away communication skills. (just as an example). I think maybe trying to find an opportunity to leave your parent's home somehow, might be the way to approach things. I don't know if that's possible, but if you could stay with a friend, or other relatives (or even stay at the Gurdwara for awhile - even a few days a week) would do wonders and allow you to 'find yourself'. Sometimes aunties at the Gurdwara etc have rooms and will allow someone to stay relatively free until they can start to pay for the room etc. There are always options. That doesn't mean ending ties with your family btw. But by being away from them even a few days a week will allow you to find who you are, without their continual influence.

Bhen Ji have you thought about doing some things which might help step you up to bigger things you mentioned? If driving a car seems to be too much what about maybe learning how to drive a scooter? I see MANY girls riding 'scooties' in India. And even full fledged motorcycles too! A bike or scooter is less intimidating than a car, are easier to maneouver in small spaces etc. and scooters are automatic. Full motorcycles have a clutch and gear though... but its still not difficult to learn (I have my motorcycle license actually) I am not sure where in US you are living, it might only help you in Summer / Fall / Spring if you are somewhere that has snow in winter, but will give you a lot of independence for much of the year still. Also, learn the public transport system where you are so you can travel around freely, by yourself. Independence doesn't necessarily require a vehicle of your own. Plenty of people use public transport simply because it's easier than traffic etc. and cheaper than parking - like in New York City. And getting a job certainly does not require a vehicle or license unless of course the job is to be a driver. For a job try looking for groups that assist immigrants etc. in your area. Here we have a company that people can literally show up any day of the week, and that company is hired to take care of odd jobs... at other companies, people's residences etc. The jobs can range from cleaning, small construction projects (no experience necessary), moving items, grounds keeping etc. And the jobs are dolled out on first come first serve basis and paid the day of. It's a system that has helped some of the immigrants here until they could find stable work. See if your area has something similar. Print out a simple resume, listing your strenghts and your interests. Be sure to state you are interested in anything to gain experience and you are willing and eagre to learn. Print of a hundred of them and drop them EVERYWHERE! Every corner store, gas station, call centre, shopping mall stores, restaurants, hotels etc. Be sure to mention also that you will work any hours. At first you can't be picky. Being felxible will help you. Also see if your area has an employment office where you can make partake in free work training etc. that will help you. If you take these positive steps, you will naturally start to feel more empowered. I also HIGHLY recommend volunteering in the community (animal shelter, hospital, senior citizen nursing home, red cross, etc). Not only will it give you self confidence, your feeling of being any sort of burden will completely dissappear as you are doing seva, and its a good way to make contacts in the community and friends. Contacts that may also lead to employment opportunities etc. Finally, you are NOT NOT NOT a failure!!! Don't EVER think this! Life is not always easy. When things are not good we have the choice to either sit and take it and feel disheartened.... OR we can do everything in our power to change our situation. Be always in Chardikala. Refuse to be in situation that makes you feel like that. As an adult anyway, you have the power to decide your own path. Stay positive! You were put here by Waheguru Ji for a purpose!

@Ragmaala I am tagging you in this, because putting differences aside, I seem to remember you are an MD?? Do you have any input on how this system can possibly be adapted for India? Obviously the need is there. Ambulance response times are slow. Due to several factors, like traffic and failure of drivers to give right of way to ambulances. Patients often die before paramedics can get to them. This system is not to replace emergency systems already established but to augment them, by having volunteers in local areas dispatched at the same time as ambulances. Since people are dispatched in their local area only they arrive within mins. In UK they have duty rosters where people cover a day every week or so. The duty person takes the BLS kit, O2 kit, AED. Obviously for it to work, volunteers need to be motivated to donate their time (convince them what they get in return... free training to AMFR level and their children, elderly etc are protected in those vital minutes before an ambulance can arrive). And donations / funding required to maintain the kits and supplies. Volunteers themselves would eventually handle training as some would go on to be instructors. They would also handle the duty rosters as one person per locality could take on the duty of making up the schedules. The system will be self sufficient once eatablished. At first would be trialled in one small area. Google SJA CFRs for more information on how UK does it.

But why is it only one way? Why do they feel its wrong to use their husbands name but perfectly fine for the husband to use theirs? And how does that work in a crowd?? LOL. Luckily my husband doesn't buy into that. To me it sounds like some admission of inferiority in the minds of the women. Or they are artificially elevating their husbands above themselves. In and of itself that is not anything wrong, but surely the husband should do the same then else it seems lopsided.

I know its only a few years and I am scared to death of those few years!!! Thankfully if we have a child, I know he will do 50% of the work because he actually loves babies. I don't know I am petrified by them. As i said once they get to the point where they can communicate then I am ok so toddlers. But even then, I have no idea what to do once they start wailing. And the screeching goes right through me. When I got married, even though my husband and his family are very open and encouraging to my husband's nieces to have good careers etc. I was taken aside by my husband's brother's new wife. She told me that 1) I am expected to produce a male child, 2) I have to 'serve' the husband as a wife, and 3) then she said something about how she doesn't even refer to her husband (my husband's brother) by his name as if it's wrong for her to use it. Apparently its ok for him to use hers through. My husband later told me this is NOT how their family does things, it was how his brother's wife was brought up. But the inferior role of wives serving the husband is still very prevalent. She was from Jammu if it helps... I'm lucky in that my husband is not scared to cook or help with cleaning etc. As for a baby we are leaving it to Waheguru as I am near 41. It may or may not happen. But if it does, I am definitely exploring PLANNED c-section to avoid labour and all of the above issues that guest posted. And I am petrified of those first few years. Seriously. Petrified.

I never said I didn't DO housework. I just don't like it as a career choice. So I'd never be a housewife. And no I have no maternal instinct. None. I know I don't! I actually feel awkward around babies. If one cries I have absolutely no idea what to do. At all. I've never craved for one. Give me a 3 year old or older and I can relate to them somewhat. The older the better though. But never had the urge to change diapers and have an infant hanging off my breasts full time.

That's easy. Because what what men have been traditionally doing is valued way more than what the women were doing. So of course the women are praised if they can do what the men can, because she's able to do something that matters more. And of course the men who do what women typically were forced into are called sissy etc because what women did was always seen as weak, simple, doesn't require much physical effort or brains and most importantly was seen as a servant role because men never valued it or appreciated it! I agree remove the gender stereotypes and let people be who they are. I never liked babies or housework, but it doesn't mean I hate being a woman. Why not let me choose what being a woman is to me? For me that's a career in the Navy. And my career doesn't affect the closeness with my husband one iota in fact he is proud of what I have accomplished. By the way I agree sex between husband and wife is fine as its within marriage. It doesn't have to be only for procreation or else every couple in their mid to late 40s would have to become celebite when she can no longer pop out babies at menopause. (Reading your story above guest makes me even less inclined to have any ...... Shudder!!) kddingh80 - I'm more for everyone being trained to defend themselves and carry protection than relying on a man and hiding in a corner. That's why we all carry kirpans no? I also have pepper spray here and not afraid to use it. As last resort I also took Taekwon do which taught me it's far worse to be afraid and cower than it is to at least fight back. Stop teaching women they need to cower behind men. I'm not saying teach men to be cowards but why not teach women to fight too???

Actually what he insinuated was not that knowing Punjabi would 'increase' gurmat Gyan - he was insinuating that not knowing Punjabi means one can't possibly understand it at all and has no right to even comment. Huge difference!! I agree knowing Punjabi (and the other languages used in Gurbani) would help as one would not need to rely on translations. But I even know Punjabi born Sikhs who don't know the other languages used and have to rely on translations for those parts. Punjabi is not the only language used in Gurbani. Do I wish I knew Punjabi!? Heck yes!! Does not knowing Punjabi mean I can't understand Gurbani at all? Of course I am relying on translations but I am smart enough to compare several translations and (by the way I am picking up words just from that like Jot is light, sat is truth etc) and the translations I am using are widely accepted. It's unfair to say I can not possibly understand it at all without knowing Punjabi. Sure knowing Punjabi would mean I wouldn't have to trust the translators. But when the translations used ARE trusted by a huge amount of Punjabi born Sikhs as being correct, then why ostracize anyone who wasn't born Punjabi from following Sikhi because you think they need to read the original before they can possibly understand anything? So this very much does ostracize anyone who wasn't born Punjabi and certainly makes them not feel welcome! If Catholics said that someone has to be fluent in latin before they could become Catholic, how many Catholics do think the world would have??? The original masses etc were ALL completely Latin!! The bible was not written in English! And yet, Sikhi claims to be open to anyone who wants to follow it. There is a BIG difference between saying that someone would have it easier if they knew Punjabi and did not have to rely on translations, than saying they can not possibly understand at all without knowing Punjabi. But that's Achatanga1's issue. He minces words. Says one thing then retracts and tries to make it into something less so he doesn't look as bad. Like sending an unsolicited PM quoted as this "Can you please leave this forum" and think that somehow using the word please makes it ok and means that he somehow was not telling me to leave and making me feel like crap. Then he called me vulgar for questioning some practices by certain sects towards women which are unsikh-like ( oh right I don't know Punjabi so I can possibly understand what it is to be Sikh) - anyway because I questioned women being told they are not allowed to do a lot of seva by certain sects, that means I am vulgar. Then later on claims I am lying because I exposed his unsolicited PMs to the forum. The amount of stink he kicked up over semantics is hilarious actually. His whole 'thing' is trying to call me a liar because he thinks because he used the word please it somehow means he wasn't telling me to leave hahaha. The fact remains he sent unsolicited PMs, which were rude, designed to make me feel like crap and get me to leave the forum because he disagrees with allowing women to have equal opportunity in seva as men, and with me gone ( the only other female besides Sukrit Kaur bhenji) he won't presumably have to even think about women having equal rights. His plan backfired and I exposed his unsolicited and rude PMs so he's been on a tirade ever since saying I am liar because he used the word please hahahahahabahaha ok yes he used the word please... Does it make it any better that he sent those PMs to begin with???hell no!!! They were still rude the insinuation was still that I wasn't welcome and to leave. So does it even matter?? Nope because the intent was the exact same. He was telling me in no uncertain terms I was unwelcome and he wanted me to leave. And he thinks he has done nothing wrong!! Lol

He did what??

aChatanga1 (Im not really sure what the allure of adding a is but if you really insist) I really have no desire to continue this with you. Please just drop the whole thing, and I'll stay out of your way if you stay out of mine. Really I wish you a good life. I'm sure that outside of here, you are good person. Just because people disagree on things doesn't mean you have to continually insult, slander, defame etc. lets drop it. You sent me an unsolicited PM last year asking me to leave (in a very not nice way, and you somehow think it was ok because you used the word please). You didn't like that I told the rest of the forum. And I didn't leave. It's now long history. Our disagreement on DG means nothing. So what we disagree! I am certainly not the only one who has some questions. I don't see you attacking over half the Sikhs on the planet over it! I actually have you blocked but have been clicking on your posts since someone told me you have been once again posting unprovoked attacks on me. Just drop the whole thing. Pretend I don't exist. Your life will be better, my life will be better. But if I see any more unprovoked attacks, name calling etc. I will report them. As of this moment I will not even post anything directed at or about you. So anything you post from now on directed at me, will be considered an unprovoked attack. So leave it drop it. And get on with your life.

Ambulance response time in India is atrocious. There's no way to say it nicely. Partly due to drivers failing to give right of way, parking in front of ambulances thus blocking them, heavy traffic etc. Sadly, in many cases, patients die before help arrives, particularly cardiac incidents, heavy bleeding etc. This got me thinking, it doesn't HAVE to be this way. There must be a solution that will work in India. In Canada, I volunteer with St John Ambulance, as a medical first responder. Here, we only participate in public events like concerts, sports events, large parties etc. Specific events where there will be a large amount of people. We treat anything from cuts / broken bones / dehydration and heat stroke (Summer especially when alcohol involved) leading to syncope (unconscious) etc. right up to providing oxygen therapy for breathing issues, we carry some airway adjuncts like NPA/OPA, non-rebreather masks, we can monitor blood glucose as we carry glucometers and can treat low blood sugar because we carry fast acting glucose, we carry AEDs (automated external defibrillators) for cardiac. Usually also SAM splints for breaks, C-Collars and back boards at events for spinal immobilization etc. Here ambulance response time is less than 10 min typically. So we don't use the model the UK does where there are CFRs. Community First Responders. They are overseen by St John Ambulance, carry the same equipment as we do, only they take duty rosters in their local communities. When an ambulance is dispatched, they are also dispatched. Since they respond only to their local area (small area), they will arrive on scene within minutes. This can SAVE LIVES while awaiting the ambulance crew. Once ambulance crews arrive, they are also a valuable extra set of hands. THIS system if approached the right way in India WILL save lives. Some things I thought about already: 1. Volunteers are needed to become trained, and take rosters in their areas. The logical target group are stay at home wives since they are the ones who are there consistently. 2. Training them to be medical first responders will empower them as it will be a skill they will have acquired which is beyond basic domestic housework. This will give them self confidence. 3. In UK and Canada, St John Ambulance operates as a charity. I know India is less than enthusiastic about supporting charities. Some way would need to be found to support having supplies for each "sector" (a full BLS kit (roller gauze bandages, splints, dressings, triangular bandages, etc), tools for vitals (BP cuff, stethoscope etc), AED, Oxygen tanks, airways and masks etc) plus funds to maintain the kits and replenish things from it, refill oxygen tanks etc. The total kit is usually a backpack BLS kit, O2 bag, and the AED (which can often fit in the O2 bag as well). So one person can easily grab the packs and run. But kitting up each community would require funding. In North America, and UK, SJA receives donations from the public, from event coordinators etc for coverage. These donations go directly back into purchasing supplies. What options exist in India?? NGO status?? Would any funding be available for that? I am working on this idea in one specific area in North India to see if we can trial it and see if it's viable. Once started, the system is self contained in that, some of the members / volunteers will be trained to be instructors of the same course to teach Advanced Medical First Response to SJA standards. They train new volunteers. Some new volunteers go on to become new instructors etc. And the cycle continues. So only the start up would require instructors from abroad. I am working with my husband's cousin on trying to make this a reality. He is a doctor in Jammu region and also thinks if this system is possible to be a reality it will save lives. Just wondering if anyone has any idea on how to get funding in India. If anyone here is from the UK and has experience with the community first responder setup with SJA please contact me as in Canada we only cover events and do not have community response so I'd like to get more info on how it's run, how it's coordinated with ambulance dispatch etc. Please set aside our differences, disagreements on DG etc for awhile, and if you have any ideas on how to make this a reality, please share!

Chrome seems to work fine! I like that if somehow I accidentally hit the back button, what I started to type is not lost! It's there when I go back into the thread! Even if I have not yet clicked submit! Quotes sometimes do act wonky though. Like If I have quoted something in a previous post, and I am in a new thread and click quote, the old quote from a totally different post shows up and I have to backspace to get rid of it.

If according to you ladies are causing troubles, maybe look at WHY they feel the need to bring things up! Maybe it's because they are not being treated fairly and although YOU may find it annoying that they are speaking up, they may have valid points that need to be addressed. At Gurdwaras, male and female should have equal opportunity. Sikhi is not just about men. So instead of ridiculing them or looking down on them, maybe look at how YOU are treating them which may be the cause and then ask yourself if you would want to be treated that way. Usually women don't cause trouble just for the sake of it. It's because they are frustrated at how the Singhs are treating them as second class. Something to think about... Case in point is the issue that happened with Hari Singh Randhawa and calling women impure and barring them from seva during menstruation. The ladies pointed out that firstly that Gurdwara where they are are not Damdami Taksal, and also that Gurbani says the opposite, Gurbani condemns the idea of physical impurity because of menstruation, and says that those who are pure are only those in who's mind naam abides. They had every right to be upset since he was trying to paint women as "lesser" than men, and justifying restricting women from seva. You might think its ok to bar women from seva once a month... what's the big deal right? But, then women are also barred from Granthi (because they'd not be able to maintain duties all month) and then men end up ruling everything and all of a sudden it doesn't seem so fair anymore right? A male wouldn't have been barred from seva for a urinary leaking issue... which is very common. So those women had every right to speak up against what he was saying - those women were trying to uphold what is written in Gurbani. But to YOU, any woman who speaks up against unfair treatment, is seen as causing trouble.... It's very very sad. In reality, its the Singhs who are thinking like this to restrict women and relegate them to inferior roles, they are the ones causing trouble and going against Gurbani. If you are going to judge... judge yourself first. (And THAT IS from Gurbani - Guru Nanak Dev Ji says a true judge is one who only judges himself and not others)

Why does he keep typing my name wrong??

You can't escape that you are a devious liar. Don't mince words. I sent you my email in hopes we could resolve this. I took the step to rectify things even though I didn't trust you. It's obvious you don't want to. Stop lying about me and Making yourself out to be some Saint.

Oh wow play the Saint lol. Others have actually reported you for the outright abuse towards me. If u don't want people saying anything about your devious and hateful PMs then easy don't send PMs trying to get people to leave the forum because you disagree with them.

dalsingh Ji I have no desire to engage in this with him. I even blocked him. But he continued... I have nothing against anyone on here... and people's views are their views. The only things that make me frustrated are Singhs who keep Singhnis from equal participation in seva and use DG as a reason to demean us. There are certinly a huge amount of Sikhs who question Charitropakhyan, so I am not alone in this. I have never said I 100% believe one way or the other. I leave it in the gray area. I have only ever said that I don't think Guru Gobind Singh Ji would intentionnaly write something which would be used by Singhs to demean women. Thats not the same as outright saying I don't believe it could possibly be writing of Guru Jis with some other intent. So this makes me a 'nindak?' Because I don't believe Guru Ji would intentionally demean women?? As for authenticity I leave that open ended. I don't know either way, and there is evidence on both sides of the argument. And I am certainly not the only one who thinks this way. As for women deserving equal treatment wrt seva, its clear in Gurbani so shouldnt even be an issue. This whole thing with chatanga started because I voiced opinion on women deserving equal participation in seva. He PMd me out of the blue and asked me to leave the forum and called me 'vile' for pointing out that damdami taksal restricts women from a lot of seva and that I thought it was unfair and not in spirit of what our Gurus taught and what is in Gurbani. FOr that he called me vulgar and asked me to leave the forum. I posted screenshot of his PM publicly, and reported it to admins. Thus started his year long ranting and calling me a liar. I wrote that he told me to leave. He got all in arms and calls me a liar because his wording (in the PM that HE initiated) was "Will you please leave the forum?" He thinks that is vastly different to telling me to leave and thats what the entire year worth of calling me a liar and deceitful stemmed from. Sorry, but anyone PMing someone out of the blue saying "Can you please leave the forum?" is not asking nicely... he is playing with semantics. His PM was designed to be condescending and make me feel bad so I'd leave (presumably because he disagrees with the idea of male / female deserving equal seva). So he is ticked off that I said he told me to leave... sorry but, there is no such thing as asking someone nicely. The wording didnt make it any better... his intent was to get me to leave either way. So no, his wording wasn't directly telling me to leave... but asking someone to leave is not any different. He knows that, he is just upset I showed the screenshot and wants to make noise. I had him blocked and avoided even interacting with him. But he still continues to post things calling me a liar. When he is the one who is. He is the one who initiated contact with me, asked me to leave (which is the SAME as telling me to do so) calling me vulgar because I disagree with some of DDT restrictions against women and now a nindak because I refuse to blindly believe that Guru Gobind Singh Ji would intentionally write things designed to denigrate women. And in all of this I dont even wish to engage him! I thought once I blocked him it would stop!!!

Oh look he knows how to quote post! I can too but I won't because it's easy to see every second post for the last year he has attacked me publicity. Nothing I said above is false!!! It pretty much sums it up. Started as post on here about Panj pyara seva and women turned into arguments about dasam Granth and women vs men in general in Sikhi. Paapiman specifically made it clear on This forum how women are 'lesser status' then men, have less privilege, should respect men, women are a downgrade to being male, etc. You yourself have posted to the effect 'so what's wrong if guru Gobind Singh ji wanted to warn his Sikhs about immoral women'? When I replied that if that were the case he would have warned his female Sikhs about immoral men as well but I digress... This is not even about that. I was merely pointing out why you wont even listen to me... Because I question the writing that obviously demeans women (or if it somehow was not meant to, can certainly be easily construed that way And is by Singhs and that's how many Singhs take it and use it as excuse to put us in inferior roles just look at paapiman!!!!) Im not the only one to ever question certain parts of dasam Granth. It doesn't make me bad or a 'nindak' Just like it doesn't make you bad or a 'nindak' for blindly believing in all of it when some might have been adulterated. Should one sect call another sect nindak because they have different beliefs on things??? Should AKJ call DDT nindak because they don't consider keski a kakkar or vice versa?? Or would it be better to focus on the parts that they BOTH believe and respect each other's beliefs? Obviously there is enough evidence for both to believe their different beliefs... So who is to say who is right??? Why not just respect each other and move on??? Concentrate on the parts they have in common. But no... Anyone who disagrees with a certain sect or way of thinking at all is called nindak. It's so immature. But my post is not even about any of the female vs male crap or different beliefs in the last year it's about you specifically and the endless attacks. Calling me a liar when. It was YOU who were the one who PMd me - YOU contacted me unwarranted not the other way round and asked me to leave the forum. I was not the one who contacted you. You contacted me asking me to leave. You are playing semantics accusing me of lying about saying you told me to leave. Nobody 'asks' someone to leave nicely. It's obvious it was condescending and what you meant. Do not get into word play semantics and then call me a liar because you think you somehow asked nicely instead of telling me and that somehow makes it better.. You are only mad because I pointed it out to everyone!!! An unwarranted 'please leave the forum' is still telling someone they aren't welcome. End of story. So I am not lying and never did. You contacted me unprovoked and tried to get me to leave the forum because you disagreed with my stance on equality of male and female in Sikhi. So stop with your slander and lies!! And just admit it for once! When your every second post is an attaack on me something needs to be done about it!!!! People have complained to admins about your constant attacks on me before! (I wasn't even aware until they posted it) so others have even noticed. I have absolutely no desire to argue with you or continue this. It's u who keeps dragging me into it. Please stop this now!!!

I think the OP will find if he actually makes an effort to talk to the locals and be open and kind with them, he will find they are open and welcoming... I have been all over Kashmir, and this is the case. Pahalgam, Gulmarg, Sonamarg, Tangmarg, Srinagar, Kargil, Ladakh region and Leh. etc. The Sikhs in Kashmir are awesome wonderful people and removed from a lot of the nonsense experienced in Punjab (like Dhera mentality) and they don't practice any discrimination whatsoever (this includes gender - yes even seva of Panj pyaras for those wondering). You can try visiting any of the Gurdwaras there as they are most welcoming and will help with what sights to see etc. Kashmir is also experiencing surge in tourism especially in winter for skiing at Gulmarg. I doubt they would risk losing business by being rude... The worst I experienced in Srinagar was people trying to sell me things or shikara rides... and being persistent about it! lol I have walked around by myself in Srinagar without my husband. I never had any issue.

Something needs to be done about this. I have done nothing wrong yet chatanga1 is continually calling me a liar and deceitful on this forum. This is all because HE initiated contact with me via PM. Yes you read that right.. HE CONTACTED ME. Asking me to leave the forum. He somehow feels that asking someone to leave a public forum is being nice and cushy and not the same thing as telling someone to leave. How would you feel if a complete stranger PMd you out of the blue and said "please leave the forum" simply because you disagree on certain topics (in this case the right of Sikh women to do seva on par with Sikh men). I chose to expose his PMs. Im sorry but there is no such thing as 'asking someone nicely' as he claims... even mentioning something designed to ostracize someone and make them feel unwelcome is by its very nature the SAME THING AS TELLING THEM TO LEAVE!!! He does not understand this however and still thinks that he was being nice to me or doing me a favour by asking me to leave. So he continually calls m a liar and deceitful. I am actually the one who was the victim. He is the one who is the liar. As if asking someone to leave is somehow being nice to them... its the same as telling them to leave. He is playing with semantics! I dont care if we disagree on certain things. Thats no reason to call someone nindak. I am sure there are people who disagree with you and call you that very word. Paapiman that includes you too. At least I try to be better than that, and so I don't call people names (with exception to a few responses to specific accusations). I disagree with some of you on women being able to do seva. I believe our Gurus taught equality of everyone. You don't. You see women as inferior and lesser than... that's no reason to resort to name calling such as nindak. I am indifferent to certain parts of DG which are controversial, and I am not the only one. If you call me a nindak for that then you also must call over half the panth the same thing. I hold SGGSJ above all other granths and writing, as per what Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed. Some of you don't and hold DG on par with SGGSJ. There are many Sikhs who would call YOU nindak for that. Why can't we get past name calling??? Admins: Personal attacks should be banned from this site. I was going to post in the other thread but its closed...but I agree with the guest who said this is defamation of character. Its illegal. chatanga1 if you don't stop this, I will have to report it, and if police become involved, then the admins will have to give your IP info. This is serious its not funny and never was.

Does the above include a person who kills a baby male cow born of a female dairy cow simply because the male is not considered useful in the dairy industry? How about those who condone such acts by drinking the milk?? The demand directly drives the industry...

@Singh123456777 http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart288.htm http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart269.htm And this one about the false ego identities: http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart242.htm (quoted from the article though the site says not to quote, only link. But it's just a partial excerpt and I linked so you can read the full article on the site) This is exactly what I was saying... we have become so caugfht up in playing the dream character (the false I) we have forgotten we were only characters in a dream and the doer is ONE - Waheguru. Hence my comparison to being a pilot in the dream. The pilot persona completely unaware that Harkiran was really the 'doer'. Of course the reality is, that Harkiran is just another false 'I' and the only doer is the same ONE in all of us. Waheguru. But I was only trying to explain using known references, which is what Gurbani does... since it too compares it to both a dream and a play. Now please, Singh123456777 tell me how what I wrote above, was wrong. Unless you are one of these Sikhs who think everything in Gurbani is speaking merely of states of mind, and think Sikhi is only athiesm. Aside from that, I was only trying to use comparisons to show relationship of Nirgun / Sargun and how everything is really Akal Purakh... if you think that analogy is wrong, then I give up. And likely many other Sikhs too. And no I didn't just copy and paste or quote something just because someone else said it either. I have seriously contemplated this subject. Oh right... I am a gori who came to Sikhi so I can't possibly comprehend the idea of Nirgun / Sargun, false ego identity, ONEness etc... is that it?

How is anything I said above wrong??? From the very article you yourself just linked above: "5.) Bhagat Kabir realised at Maghar that the world is only an expression of God. God in reality is much closer than one's palm and resides in one's own self." and "The Sargun form is highly diverse. One can summarise it as being the entire creation. This easily goes hand in hand with Guru Nanak Dev Ji's humanitarian and environmental teachings. Recognise all beings as one, each and every one of them has the Nirgun form of God inside them (the soul) whereas their physical appearance is the Sargun expression of the Nirgun form." which is exactly what I was saying.... Now why is it you want to somehow prove me wrong?? What I wrote above was from the website reflections on Gurbani (though I came up with the pilot dream analogy).. And Gurbani came up with the actor / play analogy on Ang 736. Just curious when these are common concepts Gurbani websites how you think what i wrote above was wrong? Especially since the link you just provided says the exact same thing!!?? I think u are just not happy unless u can try to make me somehow look stupid. But these concepts are well known!! I didn't bloody pull them out of my tush!

Keeping in mind that Sikhism does not believe God is a being separate from us, but in fact that God is everyone and everything, Guru Nanak Dev Ji was God fully realized / conscious as the whole (Creator Consciousness), but within the creation. The Creation was born of the light, and the light is in the creation. Problem is, nearly all of creation has forgotten this fact!