Kuttabanda2

What I've been explained is that Gangu Shaheeai is a metaphor that refers to those that get our Singhs and Singhni Shaheed. Either way, we shouldn't have Mel with any of them.

The Nihangs feared interpolation and corruption of texts which kind of became eventual, so they resorted to extreme measures to hide many Granths, like their Rehatnama Granths, Sarbloh Granth, Janamsakhis, Sau Sakhis, etc. by burying, transporting it to different places or placing it in the care of trusted individuals. Despite their efforts, many of these texts were discovered anyways. 

The language most used is Persian ( this is the most problematic because the transcribers made errors transliterating from the Persian script to the Gurmukhi script, many portions are incomprehensible because of this), Braj Basha, Punjabi, Hindi, Urdu, Aphram Basha, Sanskrit, Standard Arabic vocabulary is used abundently as well. 

Guru Kian Sakhian are authentic in the sense that they were written by Sarroop Singh Kaushish in 1790, however, they aren't entirely reliable.  The accounts of the Amrit Sanchar, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur, Dasmesh Pita Ji's jyoti-jyot are reliable because they're corroborated by actual Pandd and Bhatt Vahees.  If you compare the accounts with the ones in the Bhatt Vahees, it's supported.  The rest of the accounts are fishy. 
 
The reason why Keski is mentioned in Guru Kian Sakhian (based off of some Vahees), Pargana Thanesar Bhatt Vahees, and Bhatt Narbad Singh's accounts is due to the fact that Guru Sahib did indeed tie a blue keski on the Panj Pyare and probably instructed them to keep one.  But that doesn't mean it's a Kakkar.  The Bhatts and Pandds historically recorded incidences from afar or from what they heard around that very moment.  It's almost a tradition for them.  Their job was to record what they witnessed.  The Amrit Sanchar was witnessed by them from amongst the Sangat or on the outskirts of the area from where they could still view and hear (as they have been doing in battles, royal courts, or hearings in India). So when they saw Guru Sahib give the Panj a Sarbloh Kara, a Karad, a white Kacherra, a wooden kanga, and blue keski, they assumed it to be the fifth Kakkar. 

This thread is senseless, ignorant, and utterly foolish. No Scholar has ever doubted Sri Guru Katha By Shaheed Kavi Baba Jeevan Singh Ji. The language is not "new" in any form, you can probably find such similarities in other contemporary texts. Secondly, Gurpur Prakash by Shaheed Baba Binod Singh Ji matches up entirely with Sri Guru Katha. The word "Kakkar" or "Kakke" has also been in use since the times of Dasmesh Pita Ji, it's been used in Bhai Gurmukh Singh's own Rehatnama and the Chaupai that was attached to a manuscript of Mahan Kavi Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji's Rehatnama along with the incorrect Samapti Dohra that he also added. It's also been used in the Bhatt Vahis, and again, In Gurpur Prakash By Shaheed Baba Binod Singh Ji. You can speak to any present day credible and Panthic scholar, such as Dr. Harbhajan Singh, Neeti Singh, Dr. Gurmukh Singh, Dr Perhaps Dr. Kamalroop Singh, Dr. M.K. Gill, Dr. Anurag Singh, Bhai Kulwant Singh, etc. many of whom of have come across a and examined this priceless text. 
There should be no doubt on Sri Gursobha Granth by Maha Darbari Rattan Kavi Saina Singh/Sainapat Ji as Bakwaas Khoj has implanted in your minds. 
Unless you guys have analyzed the writing style, languages and literature of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Darbari Kavis, and the poetry of that time, you can't pass any judgement or valid criticism of the text. The way the words are spelled in Sri Gur Katha is not evidence of it's inauthenticity, Gurbani Vyaakran of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the system and style of of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji's poetry and language can't be applied here at all, let alone any other Granth of the time. Thus the arguments are invalid and of no strong foundation. 

I don't think so.
 

The average Sikh has prioritized financial, social, and personal success/prosperity (i.e Avarice) over faith.  Both can be central to one's life and thought, with Sikhi taking precedence with no compromise to the former.  But apne don't think that way.  Dharam for them, are a set of traditions and beliefs convenient to their lifestyle and a cultural nuance they put up with.  It's a product of this modern individual-centric social mentality, that supersedes and suppresses a wider sense of communal identity, belonging, and responsibility, a reason why Daswand isn't so widely practiced anymore among Sikhs anymore as they have developed apathy and indifference for fellow Sikhs.  Due to this, they don't study their faith, or even read for pleasure or intellectual enrichment, thus books become irrelevant and unimportant for such these dull 'Sikhs'.  Also a reason why we have Sikh kids growing up in Sikh households with little to no awareness and interest in the faith and community they were brought up with.

Muslims (the collective mainstream) only care for their own kind.  Though Khalsa Aid does do a lot of seva, they should tend to our own community as well. 

For your third point, I already told you to go read "Att Khalsa Mool Mantar".

Before going any further, there is one thing to note down.

The DamDami Taksal has used Sakhis, folklore, and traditional legends to instill a lesson of ethics and morals.
furthermore, can you reference which book makes these claims? Some of the books from Taksal by are by authors who admittedly make a few details up about their own Sants and Jathedars.

I remember someone pointing out how the books of taksal have gone through some editing at changes even after the author has left the world.


We've all heard the Sakhi of the Singh who misread Gurbani and Guru Sahib then tells him that he is bending and twisting his fingers. What would you say to that?

If Guru Nanak Dev Jee were to bleed, I doubt it would be degrading or showing weakness, because Guru Sahib is beyond death and pain, it wouldn't matter to him.

In regards to the reincarnation of Bhagats, read Att Khalsa Mool Mantar.

Sikhkhoj,
Again, it's an allegory, if you can't comprehend it, then that's on you. The Devi-Devtas represent certain qualities which the Khalsa must instill within themselves.

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,3347

The Singh on this forum has answered the question of Hanuman giving a Kacherra to the Khalsa quite well, In the Bhai Daya Singh Rehatnama.

If you can't get a grip on them, that's your problem. With the mindset you have in regards to Daya Singh's Rehatnama, I wouldn't be surprised if you doubted the first Charitar of Charitaropakhyan, since it's metaphors run along the same lines.

I personally don't agree with everything Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee said, but I still find him to be a good personality.
He didn't invent Sakhis either, they were passed down from one Gyani to another, you have no basis to call him a liar when he himself had firm belief in those stories and concepts.

What allegations?

I think there are like around a dozen Granths that are by the name of Gurbilas Patshahi Chevin and Gurbilas Patshahi Dasvin, each probably from a different author.

from non-Nihangs/Akalis.  Janamsakhis and Rehatnamas were tampered with when being copied and/or printed.  Sau Sakhi is notable for this, the original text was altered repeatedly. Piara Singh Padam details this very well.  The Singhs of old noticed this, thus they became protective. 

Imo, the Sarbloh Granth seems to be a compilation of Kavi Bani and Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani. Bhai Gurdas Singh's Vaar has been found within the Granth in certain manuscripts.
There also hasn't been enough research done into the text, no one even undertook the endeavour to do it's Shudai, there are portions misplaced, missing, rearranged, mispelled, undecipherable, etc. variations between manuscripts.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

I was reading quite a few articles and books in regards to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee and I've discovered a few facts and I have a few theories about Sri Dasam Patshah's Granth.
If one were to inspect the various Versions of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee ( SGPC version, Bhai Randhir Singh Version, Hazoor Sahib Version, Anandpur Sahib Version, and so on) we'd find quite a lot of discrepancies and consistency in Birs when compared to each other.
As we all know, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib was with strenuous effort, compiled by Bhai Mani Singh Ji, who had managed to gather as much of Dasam Patshah Jee's Bani as he possibly could into his Bir.

This what I've noticed so far from my reading:

1) We discovered Banis which aren't to be found in Bhai Mani Singh's Bir.

2) many texts are ascribed to Jaan-O-Dil-Raa-Raah Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee which don't seem to match Guru Sahib's more prominent texts, which has caused people to doubt some of these Banis and consider them as the work of other writers. For example: Asfotak Kabit, Sahansar Sukhmana, Naam Shastar Mala Mantar, etc.

3) We'd find that some of Guru Sahib's Bani is outside of any version of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, such as Sarbloh Prakash.

4) We also find that some Banis are incomplete (portions are missing). For example: Shastar Naam Mala Granth/Puran, Akal Ustat, and Gyan Prabodh.

Bhai Mani Singh couldn't gather every Bani of Guru Sahib, but he did make an attempt, which was fruitful.
Baba Gurbakash Singh Jee and Baba Binod Singh Jee also prepared their very own Birs, Followed by many other Gursikhs of the 1700s.
This could explain why the Birs are inconsistent and have dissimilarities in content. Many of the writers must have found Banis ( which were not in the first Bir) and then added them into their own Sarroops. Others copied those Sarroops and produced their own. Some of the texts might have been of the Hazoori Gursikh Kavis and they were also added to Birs by writers thinking that they were Dasam Patshah's.

Also, Some Pothis were left undiscovered and thus weren't added into any Bir of Dasam Granth Sahib, such as Sarbloh Prakash.

I've noticed how many books containing the writings of Darbari Kavis are slowly going out of print and then out of Shelves.
Would it be permissible to combine Sarbloh Prakash, Hazoori Darbari Kavis' Bani, and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib into one Bir?

It could be HUGE, but that depends on the size of the letters and papers.

I don't possess any manuscript, I had darshan of a few in Punjab and learned about certain manuscripts from fellow Singhs, and soon i'm going back to scan them.

GNDU Is possible, Patiala is a maybe, since the Hindu Board there attempted to actually destroy a lot of historical material, so I'm expecting them to be fishy, but that can't be confirmed until I try. 
 
i'm looking forward to buying a scanner and scanning+digitizing Puraatan manuscripts. 

We've all come across Kuir Singh's and Sukha Singh's the two most well known in regards to Patshahi Dasvin. As they are published and printed now.
Some Individuals, libraries and Universities have manuscripts that have the title 'Gurbilas Patshahi Dasvin' or 'Gurbilas Patshahi Chevin' and are entirely different, not even a drop of similarity.  I saw one which wasn't even in poetry, but Prose. Another that seemed to name an author called 'Gurbaksh'. They're several separate works from different authors that just bear the same name, like the Janamsakhis, you'll find numerous manuscripts that are just simply titled 'JanamSakhi Baba Nanak' or along those lines, and I think the Gurbilas Granths have a similar story. It seems they haven't  been noticed by any Scholar or Researcher.

Thakur Sinh is from the Dhumma controlled Bhindra Mehta faction of Taksal. All the Gyanis and good Gursikhs have been kicked out and government stooges have been put in place. What could you expect from the likes of those who use drugs ( not Bhang Sukha, Drugs!), kiss the bare ass of Badal, associate with enemies, betray the Panth and ruin the institution of Baba Thakur Singh Jee?

The Singhs that beat up the Paathis are from DamDami Taksal Ajnala, a Jatha that vehemently opposes Dhumma.

I would whole heartedly agree. People think of Anand Karaj as a a simple cultural marriage ceremony. However, it's a religious practice, it's between not only the couple but the Guru as well.
It's disrespectful and meaningless tojust bow down to Guru Sahib without even accepting it as a spiritual guide. It just degrades the whole purpose and meaning of Anand Karaj.

Does anyone have any information about Chand Svaarankar's Guru Mehima? Are Any of the of works of Guru Gobind Singh's poets available? With the exceptions  Bhai Nand Lal Goya, Bhai Jeevan Singh Ji, Bhai Gurdas Singh, and Kavi Senapat? 
The Panjab Digital Library doesn't give any details whatsoever about the books and manuscripts they digitize. I read Piara Singh's book, but it only contains a few quotes and stanzas and he doesn't give any reference.   

This thread is senseless, ignorant, and utterly foolish. No Scholar has ever doubted Sri Guru Katha By Shaheed Kavi Baba Jeevan Singh Ji. The language is not "new" in any form, you can probably find such similarities in other contemporary texts. Secondly, Gurpur Prakash by Shaheed Baba Binod Singh Ji matches up entirely with Sri Guru Katha. The word "Kakkar" or "Kakke" has also been in use since the times of Dasmesh Pita Ji, it's been used in Bhai Gurmukh Singh's own Rehatnama and the Chaupai that was attached to a manuscript of Mahan Kavi Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji's Rehatnama along with the incorrect Samapti Dohra that he also added. It's also been used in the Bhatt Vahis, and again, In Gurpur Prakash By Shaheed Baba Binod Singh Ji. You can speak to any present day credible and Panthic scholar, such as Dr. Harbhajan Singh, Neeti Singh, Dr. Gurmukh Singh, Dr Perhaps Dr. Kamalroop Singh, Dr. M.K. Gill, Dr. Anurag Singh, Bhai Kulwant Singh, etc. many of whom of have come across a and examined this priceless text. 
There should be no doubt on Sri Gursobha Granth by Maha Darbari Rattan Kavi Saina Singh/Sainapat Ji as Bakwaas Khoj has implanted in your minds. 
Unless you guys have analyzed the writing style, languages and literature of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Darbari Kavis, and the poetry of that time, you can't pass any judgement or valid criticism of the text. The way the words are spelled in Sri Gur Katha is not evidence of it's inauthenticity, Gurbani Vyaakran of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the system and style of of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji's poetry and language can't be applied here at all, let alone any other Granth of the time. Thus the arguments are invalid and of no strong foundation.