cybersingh

Veer, Vahiguru mantar is the highest mantar used by most puratan sampradas. Namdharis use this as their Gur-mantar jaap. As for a fateh greeting, I know that back in the olden days they used to say it and even during the British Raj when Namdharis gave up their lives when Sri Darbar Sahib was desecrated by muslims, when the butchers would throw the meat into the sarover, they had had the panj kakkars and a kirpan. The reason for the small kirpan in the kanga was so that when the british would confiscate Guru Maharaj nishaan's the namdhari's kept it so that they wuold not end up disobeying Guru Gobind Singh Ji's saroop. As for a fateh greeting, I myself am sure of why this happened but I do know that if you read Guru Ram singh Ji's hukamnama's, in it he clearly uses the fateh. Usually, namdharis' greet each other and other people with a Sat Sri Akal.

Guv veer, you are 100% correct in that Namdharis believe with full faith that gurmantar is Vahiguru but they just don't say it out loud. Actually, all raagi's from namdhari samprada would say fateh at the end of Asa Di vaar but as far as at the end of kirtan, I'm not sure as I haven't heard it lately............ :? 8)

Where's the "PANTHIC POLICE" now?...................... :evil: :x

It's great to have you back veer.........Guru Meher karay sab te, khushiyaan bakshay, sab nuu chardi kala vich rakhay atay Veer Ustad Bahadur Singh vargay vidvaan pursh nuu ehni meher karay ke saday vargay kaljugi jeev nuu gurmat di sikhiya bakshay........

Oye Rabb de vaste............. meri benti sun laoo............Chatanga, you think you have a great grasp on sikh history which happens to be incorrect most of the time............I have a question for you.......... You seem to be nit-picking a lot on Namdhari's and what not........Namdhari's live by word of gurbani, amrit vele utnaa, kesi ishnaan, naam simran, gurbani paath, kirtan etc.......... Now, my question to you is namdhari's follow the hukams of their guru, Your Guru.......(no offence to anyone but this is just to make a point), Guru Granth Sahib Ji has 1430 pages telling humans to stop bickering, quarrelling, slandering, and spend more time in kirtan, naam simran etc.............How much do you follow? Do you follow your guru's hukam because it seems like you don't and you follow the "PANTHIC POLICE"........ why?.................

Oye Rabb de vaste............. :roll: meri benti sun laoo............Chatanga, you think you have a great grasp on sikh history which happens to be incorrect most of the time............I have a question for you.......... You seem to be nit-picking a lot on Namdhari's and what not........Namdhari's live by word of gurbani, amrit vele utnaa, kesi ishnaan, naam simran, gurbani paath, kirtan etc.......... Now, my question to you is namdhari's follow the hukams of their guru, Your Guru.......(no offence to anyone but this is just to make a point), Guru Granth Sahib Ji has 1430 pages telling humans to stop bickering, quarrelling, slandering, and spend more time in kirtan, naam simran etc.............How much do you follow? Do you follow your guru's hukam because it seems like you don't and you follow the "PANTHIC POLICE"........ why?.................

Fatehsingh Ji, tusi khush ho jaooo gaye.................

Bro.....I have an eyewitness update from that era which should clarify doubts unless people are too high on " Mahaparshaad", then i can't help you....LOL............ From what I have been given as info is that there is no record of any namdhari "ripping up angs of ASGGS"....Pattar Paath is when pattaray (pages) were given to the sangat as there was no binding on the full saroop. All bindings were done in Amritsar. All old saroops that namdhari's were in possession of were given at Amritsar for full sanskaar....During the 1940's era, no other publishers were allowed to print or bind saroops except for SGPC so all saroops were given to SGPC. Namdhari's that couldn't read were given small pattaray for a sehaj paath from an old saroop before it was given at amritsar to read it until they can get it kanth. if anyone can remember history correctly, was it not guru ram singh who went from home to home, took out old saroops that people had put in their bookshelves or wherever and used his own dastaar to wipe off the dust and got people to do paath from ASGGS?... is the not respect? hmmm....i don't see people these days doing this....rather they use it like a tool for business......(ie......Guru Granth Sahib campaign where people would the saroop to banquet halls etc....) I don't know of namdhari's doing this. Before making any accusations......(ie...when you make assumptions...you always make an ASS out of U and ME...ASS-U-ME)... always ask before making assumptions, saves a lot of headaches........

very credible............... :roll:

LOL.........news bulletin from Panthic.org and Brahmgyani 108/111 mahatapasvi Sachkhand Nivasi Shakti Shaali Maha Bali chatanga ji.....and everyone listens to them..........LOL............great.........live your life by the word of panthic.org and chatanga but not by Gurbani................ this is all BS as Fatehsingh has mentioned....From what I know and what my nana has experienced in his life, Pattra Path is when a sangat collectively does a sehaj paath by sharing pattars by each person or family. For eg. one family will say that we will do 100 angs of paath and another says we will do 200 etc..............not what these "brahmgyani's" say...one's that don't even do rehiras, chaupai, jaap, jap ji, anand sahib as prescribed by Akal Takhat as part of morning nitnem....oh well......i'm no better than RSS, ABC, OPP, XYZ...hindu paranoia........

Gurfateh Sangat Ji................ Here's some classical pics (more like paintings but almost close) of puratan raagis....................Bhai Mastan Singh, Bhai Taba ji Rababi and Ustad Udo Khan Sahib Ji........Can anyone shed some light on these souls?.... Ustad Udo Khan Sahib Ji............ Bhai Mastan Singh Ji............. Bhai Taba Ji Rababi...............

Sangat Ji, Gurfateh parvaan hovey sangat nuu....Here's a pic of a car in which Dhan Sant Maharaj Baba Jawala Singh Ji has ridden in. I don't know the whole sakhi behind it but if anyone knows, please post it. The driver of this vehicle was Sardar Anoop Singh Ji.......... Enjoy...............

Blah, Blah, Blah ..........this person is sikh, this person isn't..........how many times has this "discussion" went on? Let's discuss the teachings of GurBani.....isn't that what sikhi is about?........ Mehlaa 4, panna 314 updays je ditaa satguroo so suni-aa sikhee kannay. The Sikhs listen to the Teachings imparted by the True Guru. jin satgur kaa bhaanaa mani-aa tin charhee chavgan vannay. Those who surrender to the True Guru's Will are imbued with the four-fold Love of the Lord. ih chaal niraalee gurmukhee gur deekhi-aa sun man bhinnay. ||25|| This is the unique and distinct life-style of the Gurmukhs: listening to the Guru's Teachings, their minds blossom forth. ||25|| or how about from Asa Di Vaar, if you listen carefully......... panna 465, mehlaa 1.......... sikhee sikhi-aa gur veechaar. Contemplating the Guru, I have been taught these teachings; How often do we do this? how often do we spend more time in Nitnem Banis and vahiguru jaap.......hardly any and yet we judge as to who is a true Gursikh and who isn't.........ask yourself this first and then speak otherwise its not worth it.............

you wahabi, RSS, IT, ET, ABC GET DOWN WID OPP YEA YOU KNOW ME................LOL..........................

Pray naked together............. :shock: whoo-hoo...........CAN YOU FEEL THE LOVE?................. 8)

Dhan Dhan Garib Nawaz, satchay patshah, mehervaan Kalgidhar Pita, Sahib Satguru Gobind Singh Ji de gurpurab te sab sansaar nuu lakh lakh vaadiaay hovey.......................

Veer Ji......Fateh Parvaan Ji........... Since you asked the question to other as to what is God and you received no answer, that is because you ask others and seek their findings, but the thing is everyone has a different perception, what I meant to say was that, have you ever asked your own self these questions? All that you seek is contained within you so instead of asking others, meditate, contemplate on this and you will find what you are looking for. 2) Quote "I say that God is one." Is God no more dwelling in other numbers? God begins at one and expands into other numbers but the main focus should be at the beginning as everything starts at a certain point and then expands. 3) Quote "God is manifested in various beings-mortals, creatures but in the end we all merge back in Him." I always thought one should die to know it. I do not know how people manage to live after merging in Him. question? How does one die to know god? Can not a person merge into him and know? If we speak on a physical aspect, when a person dies, where does the soul go? It merges into akaal.....On a spiritual plane, if a person dies, isn't that the same as merging into him as one forgets his ownself and remembers the creator? 4) Quote " . . . there can be many different things but at the end, it all merges back in him." Should people wait for God or the end? Please suggest. What is the difference? isn't God the beginning, the middle and the end?

Gurfateh Parvaan Hove veer Balbir Singh Ji................. Excellent topic that you have aroused here.........I would also like to add my two paise here.............. First, you ask is God one? Well ask yourself this.....What is God? As every religion, sect, etc....has a different perception of god.. If there is a God, is he/she/it just one or many or is it just that one's spiritual state is at a point that he/she sees God in everything...Rom Rom vich vasda nirankaar.......... I say that God is one. How so because above everything there's a higher power controlling everything. God is manifested in various beings-mortals, creatures but in the end we all merge back in Him. Just as there are many rivers, lakes, ponds, Oceans, waterfalls but they all have one commonality........It's all water and as such there can be many different things but at the end, it all merges back in him. OANGKAR AAD, KATHNI ANAAD, KHAL KHAND KHAYAL GUR BAR AKAAL.............

There Exists only One God New website I found as I was browsing through SikhSangat.com..........

The Significance of the number 108 The Indian Subcontinent rosary or set of mantra counting has 108 beads. 108 has been a sacred number in the Indian Subcontinent for a very long time. This number is explained in many different ways. The ancient Indians were excellent mathematicians and 108 may be the product of a precise mathematical operation (e.g. 1 power 1 x 2 power 2 x 3 power 3 = 108) which was thought to have special numerological significance. Powers of 1, 2, and 3 in math: 1 to 1st power=1; 2 to 2nd power=4 (2x2); 3 to 3rd power=27 (3x3x3). 1x4x27=108 Sanskrit alphabet: There are 54 letters in the Sanskrit alphabet. Each has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti. 54 times 2 is 108. Sri Yantra: On the Sri Yantra there are marmas where three lines intersect, and there are 54 such intersections. Each intersections has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti qualities. 54 x 2 equals 108. Thus, there are 108 points that define the Sri Yantra as well as the human body. 9 times 12: Both of these numbers have been said to have spiritual significance in many traditions. 9 times 12 is 108. Also, 1 plus 8 equals 9. That 9 times 12 equals 108. Heart Chakra: The chakras are the intersections of energy lines, and there are said to be a total of 108 energy lines converging to form the heart chakra. One of them, sushumna leads to the crown chakra, and is said to be the path to Self-realization. Marmas: Marmas or marmastanas are like energy intersections called chakras, except have fewer energy lines converging to form them. There are said to be 108 marmas in the subtle body. Time: Some say there are 108 feelings, with 36 related to the past, 36 related to the present, and 36 related to the future. Astrology: There are 12 constellations, and 9 arc segments called namshas or chandrakalas. 9 times 12 equals 108. Chandra is moon, and kalas are the divisions within a whole. Planets and Houses: In astrology, there are 12 houses and 9 planets. 12 times 9 equals 108. Gopis of Krishna: In the Krishna tradition, there were said to be 108 gopis or maid servants of Krishna. 1, 0, and 8: 1 stands for God or higher Truth, 0 stands for emptiness or completeness in spiritual practice, and 8 stands for infinity or eternity. Sun and Earth: The diameter of the sun is 108 times the diameter of the Earth. Numerical scale: The 1 of 108, and the 8 of 108, when added together equals 9, which is the number of the numerical scale, i.e. 1, 2, 3 ... 10, etc., where 0 is not a number. Smaller divisions: The number 108 is divided, such as in half, third, quarter, or twelfth, so that some malas have 54, 36, 27, or 9 beads. Islam: The number 108 is used in Islam to refer to God. Jain: In the Jain religion, 108 are the combined virtues of five categories of holy ones, including 12, 8, 36, 25, and 27 virtues respectively. Sikh: The Sikh tradition has a mala of 108 knots tied in a string of wool, rather than beads. Chinese: The Chinese Buddhists and Taoists use a 108 bead mala, which is called su-chu, and has three dividing beads, so the mala is divided into three parts of 36 each. Stages of the soul: Said that Atman, the human soul or center goes through 108 stages on the journey. Meru: This is a larger bead, not part of the 108. It is not tied in the sequence of the other beads. It is the quiding bead, the one that marks the beginning and end of the mala. Dance: There are 108 forms of dance in the Indian traditions. Pythagorean: The nine is the limit of all numbers, all others existing and coming from the same. ie: 0 to 9 is all one needs to make up an infinite amount of numbers. We have listed below 108 Upanishads as per the list contained in the Muktikopanishad . We have arranged them in four categories according to the particular Veda to which each of them belong. Rigveda(10): Aitareya , Atmabodha, Kaushitaki, Mudgala, Nirvana, Nadabindu, Akshamaya, Tripura, Bahvruka, Saubhagyalakshmi. Yajurveda(50): Katha, Taittiriya , Isavasya , Brihadaranyaka, Akshi, Ekakshara, Garbha, Prnagnihotra, Svetasvatara, Sariraka, Sukarahasya, Skanda, Sarvasara, Adhyatma, Niralamba, Paingala, Mantrika, Muktika, Subala, Avadhuta, Katharudra, Brahma, Jabala, Turiyatita, Paramahamsa, Bhikshuka, Yajnavalkya, Satyayani, Amrtanada, Amrtabindu, Kshurika, Tejobindu, Dhyanabindu, Brahmavidya, YogakundalinI, Yogatattva, Yogasikha, Varaha, Advayataraka, Trisikhibrahmana, mandalabrahmana, Hamsa, Kalisantaraaa, Narayana, Tarasara, Kalagnirudra, Dakshinamurti, Pancabrahma, Rudrahrdaya, SarasvatIrahasya. SamaVeda(16): Kena, Chandogya, Mahat, Maitrayani, Vajrasuci, Savitri, Aruneya, Kundika, Maitreyi, Samnyasa, Jabaladarsana, Yogacudaman, Avyakta, Vasudevai, Jabali, Rudrakshajabala. Atharvaveda(32): Prasna , Mandukya, Mundaka, Atma, Surya, Narada-Parivrajakas, Parabrahma, Paramahamsa-Parivrajakas, Pasupatha-Brahma, Mahavakya, Sandilya, Krishna, Garuda, Gopalatapani, Tripadavibhuti-mahnarayana, Dattatreya, Kaivalya, NrsimhatapanI, Ramatapani, Ramarahasya, HayagrIva, Atharvasikha, Atharvasira, Ganapati, Brhajjabala, Bhasmajabala, Sarabha, Annapurna, TripuratapanI, Devi, Bhavana, SIta. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Significance of the number 108 We must agree that all measuring systems are merely reference frames. They give us a starting point. It doesn’t really matter if you call them farenheits or cycles. All science is based on fundamental assumptions of the mechanics of this universe. Yet, these assumptions, if correct, connect like building blocks. Much in the same way, the number ‘108’ is just a reference frame. It is symbolic of a bigger picture: that of humility. When devotees recite 108 Hanuman Chalisas, in their minds they believe, they are proving their love for God, and that there is in fact a need to prove their love. When devotees assign a 108 names to Shri Ganesh, they are once again gauging their devotion through numbers. This, of course, may be considered unreasonable, since it suggests that 108 chants are more effective than 109 chants. How do they know this? Have they proved it? Is 108 the magic number of the universe? No, it is not! It is a reference frame. What is important is that a system is imposed to guide us through the fundamental struggles encountered in any evolutional process. Otherwise, chaos and anarchy follow and nothing gets done. Having said that, I will show you justifications from a few subcultures in India. Obviously, I consider the Vedic rationale to be the most consistent with the fundamental laws of this universe. The others have borrowed and built, but it still smells of Vedic beginnings. In present times, we can find many rationales for the proliferation of ‘108’ throughout our scriptures. In fact, this number seems to garner its unfair share of attention from myriad cults and faith systems around the world. I will give you a few justifications that have been brought to my attention. JYOTISH SHASTRA {VEDIC SYSTEM} This universe was created by the five elements: space, air, fire, water and earth. From these elements came the three attributes: Raj {birth}, Sat {protection} and Tam {destruction or death.} The mathematical or geographical evidence proves that one circle has 360 degrees in space. Why is this circle or wheel of life considered to be of 360 degrees only? If we take a circle and start dividing it using the four elements and three attributes, all the logic can be observed. The circle itself, is considered the first element of space, since we must consume space in drawing a circle. In this space {or circle}, the four remaining elements and three attributes create the idea of time. The circle is divisible by the product of four elements multiplied by three attributes. This involves the belief that the three attributes exist in the circle. By moving three times, each element completes its revolution. So now we have the number 12 {3 x 4}. This division gave birth to our 12 months, and also to the 12 horas {1/2 of the day or Ahoratri}. We now have 360 degrees as well as 12 divisions. We can now further divide the wheel of time: there are 27 fixed stars (nakshatras) along with three attributes that divide the time in smaller portions. So this 27 + 3 = 30 is interpreted as 30 degrees or days of one part of the wheel (circle) or month. All of this is only half of a day. The night is yet unaccounted for. Therefore, we multiply these 30 degrees by 2. This gives us our reference of 60 seconds in a minute. Thus the 360º x 30º = 10,800. Zero {0} is considered ‘Purna’ or complete. So we take out the last zeros and are left with 108. The idea of our total universe is represented by this number of 108. Offering 108, devotees believe that they are showing ultimate or complete respect to the Supreme. There are many other justifications but all can be traced back to this system. A few are explained below: SHOSHU BUDDHIST Followers use 108 beads in their malas. They implement the following formula: 6 x 3 x 2 x3 = 108 6 senses [sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought] 3 aspects of time [past, present, future] 2 condition of heart [pure or impure] 3 possibilties of sentiment [like, dislike, indifference] BUDDHA’S FOOTPRINT All Buddhists accept the Buddha Footprint with its 108 Auspicious Illustrations. These areas are considered to have been marked on the Buddha’s left foot when his body was discovered. BUDDHISM 108 beads on the Hindu maalaa {rosary} 108 Arhats or Holy Ones HINDUISM 108 Gopis {consorts} of Lord Krishna 108 Holy places for Vaishnavas 108 beads on the Japa maalaa {rosary} 108 Upanishads 108 Divyadeshes - Divine or Sacred Tirtha throughout India and Nepal 108 sacred water taps in Muktinath - Nepal TANTRA SHASTRA 108 Pitha {Sacred Places} The story goes that Lord Shiva was in deep and incessant meditation. His asceticism was creating great heat in the universe. All existence was in peril and Lord Brahma was deeply concerned. Lord Brahma asked the Mother of the Universe, Maa Shakti, to use Her strength and wile to seduce Lord Shiva. Maa Shakti agreed and was born as Sati, daughter of Shri Daksha. Lord Shiva was so entranced by Sati’s asceticism and extraordinary beauty that he took human form and they were married. Years later, at a feast, Sati’s father insulted Lord Shiva. Sati was so humiliated that she began a deep meditation which led to her immolation. Lord Shiva was completely heart broken. He reached into the sacrificial fire and pulled out as much of His beloved’s body as he could grab. As He ascended to heaven, bits of Sati’s body fell to earth. 108 bits to be precise! In time, these places were acknowledged and worshipped. SANATANA DHARMA In a book by Khurana, the explanation closely mirrors the original Vedic justifications: A circle has 360 degrees, which when multiplied by 60 gives us 21,600 minutes in a circle. 60 comes from the 60 'ghatis' which Sanatana Dharmiks believe in. One ghati is equal to 24 minutes and 60 ghatis come to 24 hours. One ghati is divided into 60 parts or 'palas'. So the 60 ghatis multiplied by 60 palasa comes to 3,600. This is further multiplied by 60 (becase a pala contains 60 vipalas) which gives us 21,600. Half of this is for the day, and the other half for the night. So, 21,600 divided by 2 gives us 10,800. For practical purposes, we use 108. Using the number 108 helps us coordinate the rhythm of time and space & we remain in harmony with the spiritual powers of nature. 108 meaning

Bhai Jawala Singh Ji on harmonium, Bhai Avtar Singh on Taoos, and Bhai Gurcharn Singh on Tabla during a Kirtan Smagam at Gurdwara Dehra Sahib, Lahore

Happy Birthday Bro.......... May Waheguru ji grant you all that you desire and more and bless you with peace, joy, happiness, prosperity and Love................

Dhan Sri Narayan Ji................. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=17042058814450061

On this same note, I came across this video on youtube in which a muslim cleric is saying that Muhammad's prophecy is in vedas.... Note: this is not to create controversy but just need some enlightenment from our scholar veers.

Dhan Triloki Nath deray wallay babaey.................