Singh47

By Lalleshwari, Guru Jee did not care about casteism. He wouldn't care if a Jatt, Labana, Khatri, Brahman, or even a Habshi went. In his eyes all were one. Guru Jee would not act so self-indulgent so as to send ONLY Jatts just to annoy a couple of Brahmans in UP. This just sounds like a story some Jatt made up to stay in power and to show how Guru Jee favoured his people over all others.

Lalleshwari wrote: I wouldn’t be surprised if this story was just made up by some Jatt 200 years ago while sitting around a camp fire trying to tell his son how Guru Jee favored the Jatt people over all others.

Doesn’t the Shastar Vidya site also say that the Nihangs fought along side with Chandi Devi in the epic battle against the Rakshas army? This battle was fought for Swarg lok, the abode of Inder Dev(the king of the Devtas). If what they claim is true, then wasn’t this battle fought thousands of years before Baba Budha Jee’s birth. Some how these contradictory claims don’t make sense.

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Baba Ram Rai was disowned from the Panth because he tried to “ALTER†Bani and its literal meaning, he didn’t DENY Asa Dhi Vaar, in case you don’t know this Sakhi(because it seems very clear you don’t know this Sakhi very clearly). Bhai Randhir Singh Jee’s stand on Ragmala is totally different. He is not altering it, but DENYING it. Do you know the difference between altering and denying? Please go to dictionary.com for the meaning of those words. The Panth has no definite stand on Ragmala. The Panth is silent on this issue, in other words neutral. It goes both ways, some say it is Bani while some say it is not. If your whole bases of calling Bhai Randhir Singh Jee a Ram Raiya is that he denied Ragmala, then, does that means I can draw a parallel between you and a Muslim Jehadi just because you both have beards? It was Lalleshwari who started drawing these absurd parallels. Instead of following him blindly like a sheep, please use your own brain, and start doing critical thinking for yourself.

I agree with Heydudewassap on this one. How do you know that SV is the original Sikh martial arts? Why not learn other martial arts? Why ONLY sv? This unfortunate and emotionally/physically painful incident should not be used as to further ones own agenda unless the man gave his permission to do so.

I think when some of us start to act self righteous and judge others as “Ram Raiaa†and “heritic†it is going to cause more hate, bitterness and tension.

Challenge everyting, your ignorance in Sikh history really surprises me. Do you not even know this much of Sikh history that a Ram Raiaa is a person who is a follower of Baba Ram Rai? Bhai Randhir Singh Jee was not a follower of Ram Rai then how the heck is he a Ram Raiaa? Please read a little bit of Sikh history from the period of the Gurus before surprising us with your ignorance.

Is he a real Seva Panthi? never seen one of them before... why doesnt he wear a hat like the kind the Seva Panthis did?

Was this camp run by the uk nihangs? and why heck are they using Shanks?

Lalleshwari, does that mean that those groups are just sub-groups which are affiliated with puraatan Nirmala Sampradahs but are not exactly themselves puraatan? Taksal does not claim it’s descent from the Nirmalas. They believe they are from Baba Deep Singh Jee’s Taksal and were started by Guru Gobind Singh Jee himself. But to the best of my knowledge Baba Deep Singh Jee was a Nihang Singh and not a Nirmala.

N30 Singh, I don’t see why you have to attack AKJ every time someone does not agree with Sant Deras. I’m not AKJ, I’m Panthic. I owe my allegiance to the Panth, not to any particular group. In other words, I’m panthic. So it doesn’t really make any sense for you to attack AKJ every time I post something. BTW, international and Panchain is the same entity. That is why they write it as AKJI(akhand kirtini jatha international) They are NOT part of the Giani Sampradha. By Giani Sampradha I am assuming you are referring to Giani Vansh (to which Bhai Sant Singh belonged to) based in Amritsar. If you are, then you are sadly mistaken that they are from the same sampradah. Take a took at Nanaksar’s so called lineage, they don’t have any member of the Giani Vansh in it. Neither does the Rara Sahib Sampradhah. Only Damdami Taksal claims descent from the Giani Vansh. I wont debate Damdami Taksals lineage here with you as it is neither the right place nor right time for such debate, but you N30 Singh know my views on this.

N30 Singh, if Sant culture is so Puraatan (which it is NOT) then why is it that no Puraatan Sikh was called a ‘Sant’? all puraatan Sikhs were called Bhais or Babas, but never ‘Sant’. Sant culture started a little over a hundred years ago, and became only more prominent in the last 50 years particularly in the southern parts of Punjab. Strangely all the Sant Deras claim puraatan descent, which of course is no where near the truth. Non of todays Sant Deras which claim puraatan descent are mentioned in Suraj Prakash, Panth Prakash, Mahan Kosh or Giani Gyan Singhs works.

Puraatan? Sant culture is NOT puraatan. It has only become well-known for the last 50 years. Before that, ask any Bujurgs if they even heard of any of these Sant Deras all of which claim to be puraatan, and they will say no.. Puraatan? I think not.

"Sikh"15, I won’t go as low as you by bringing in any of your loved ones in this debate. I expect you to do the same by acting more maturely. If you have anything to say to me then say it to me, what need is there to bring in my mother or uncle? N30 Singh, why are you so happy Sikh15 takes a cheep shot by mentioning my mother? How would you like it if someone mentioned your mother or uncle?

N30 Singh, you have taken her comments out of context. Read the entire thread then think about what she wrote. Please think with a little bit of sense by clearing your mind of hate for anyone who doesn’t support the concept of a “Santâ€. I have read her posts by using the search engine on the Tapoban forum, and quite frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with her views. If anything, they make sense. They are the views of today’s frustrated average Sikh who is seeing the Sikh Quam being exploited by the Sant Samaj. Sure there are a few hand full of Sants here and there who are real saintly souls, but the vast majority of the ones who have “Sant†attached to their names are Sants in name only. Quite frankly, I don’t see what wrong if such nakli sants do get burned. If anything, Dharti Te Bhoj Halka ho jaoo gaa.

Gogogo Jee very good advice. Agree with you 100%. We should become Chelas of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and not to any Baba. Singing silence, what it to you if gogogo jee does not believe in a Baba but instead believes in our real savior, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

You guys are reading it all out of context. I just finished reading that entire thread on the Tapaban site. When manjeet Kaur gyani said the following words: “BURN ALL SANTS/BRAHMGIANIS/JATHEDARS.......as GURU GOBIND SINGH JI BURNED ALL MASANDS.†You have to read what she means in the context she is writing it in, and not make the mistake of interpreting it literally. That entire thread is dedicated to Nakli Sants like Maan Singh, who although have the word ‘Sant’ attached to their names, but also abuse their power by sexually exploiting the Sangat who trusts them, by getting richer from the money donated by the sangat. The followers(chelas) of Maan Singh like other Sant followers all claim that their Sant is a “Mahapurkhâ€, “Brahmgiani†a real big time “Shiromani Santâ€. It is these nakli SANTS/BRAHMGIANIS/JATHEDARS that Manjeet Kaur Giani says to burn.

Mr/Ms everything, He was given the title "Bhai Sahib" by the Takhts, and that includes Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib.

1. correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't Gurbani written in the language of the everyday man so it would be easier for them to understand? that is one of the main reason of why it was not in a classical language such as Sanskrit, but rather it was written in a mix of Punjabi, Hindi, Braj, Farsi. 2.Kaamdev is well-known for his lust hence the name 'kaamdev'. He was burnt to ashes by Shiva because he dared to evoke Kaam in Shiva for Parvati. He was notorious for disturbing the minds of men doing meditation, like he did to Shiva. Is it any wonder that Guru Jee has included Kaam as one of the five evils we must free ourselves from through bani and naam.

I'm not the one who is confused. 1.YOu have your view of what 'napuomsaa(i)kaa' means and I have my view of what Napunsik means. In India it's almost an everyday word, mostly used in anger or fighting in order to offend another person. So I would not even need a dictionary to understand such words as they are simply part of the everyday language. 2.Where does it say in the Gurus bani that his Sikh should learn Kaam Shastar, and be lustful like Kaamdev? providing Tukhs would be helpful.

I don’t need to check any Sanskrit grammer or dictionary of what it means, simply because anyone who comes from India knows that Napunsik means namard. It’s common knowledge man... The word for third gender in Sanskrit is 'tritia lengikaa' not napunsik When did our Gurus say to indulge in lust like Kaamdev(God of lust)? Please provide Gurbani tukhs proving that our Gurus said for us to indulge in perverted sexual acts, if not then please don’t use Sikhi to justify perversion.

Napunsik means sexual impotency, not third gender. This is well known for anyone who comes from India. Trying to say that Napunsik means ‘third’ gender is like someone claiming the word ‘impotent’ means third gender, when in fact we all know that is not the case. In India the third gender is referred to as Kusraa. The reason I brought up the issue of ‘love’ making is because you claim that in order to be a ‘traditional’ Sikh one needs to make ‘love’ like the lustful kaamdev (God of lust). I resent that, because that is not a part of Sikhi. That is not Sikh tradition, but the tradition of prostitutes. The ideal Sikh tries to control those urges through Bani and Naam, not indulge in it, and justify it by saying he is just following ‘traditional’ Sikhi. If you cannot control your lustful mind, then please don’t use Sikhism to justify it.

I was looking at the picture on the sevapanthi site and I came across the picture on the following link http://www.sewapanthi.org/htmls/sewapanthi_how.html it is a picture of Bhai Ram Krishan. I am just curious, did he wear a Kasheraa? Because in that picture it looks like he is either not wearing it, or is wearing a very small one. Sorry, I just curious to know, and it is not meant to cause anyone offence.

First of all Lalleshwari or Shaka, I don’t care to know how you misinterpret Gurbani to suit and justify your lustful thoughts. Here is what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee has to say about perverts: paapee heeai mai kaam basaae || The heart of the sinner is filled with unfulfilled sexual desire man cha(n)chal yaa thae gehiou n jaae || He cannot control his fickle mind. nimakh kaam suaadh kaaran kott dhinas dhukh paavehi || For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days. gharee muhath ra(n)g maanehi fir bahur bahur pashhuthaavehi For an instant, you may savor pleasure, but afterwards, you shall regret it, again and again. ham keheeath kalijug kae kaamee I am called a lustful being of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ein pa(n)chan maero man j bigaariou The five vices have corrupted my mind. pal pal har jee thae a(n)thar paariou Moment by moment, they lead me further away from the Lord. Control Kaam? You’re the one who is talking about making love with a woman like the uncontrollable lustful Kaamdev(God of lust). Well, I wont let you drag me down to your level of name calling. So I will leave it at that. BTW it’s pronounced as ‘Napunsik’ not ‘napumsak’, and it means impotent in other words it is a synonym for namard. It doesn’t mean ‘3rd gender i.e. eunuchs, transvestites and homosexuals’. Please use a bit more sense when getting out of control. I never knew that treating your wife like a piece of meat is to treat her like a Queen?