Singh47

This is one of my favourite quotes from Sri Mat Bhagwatam. Those who are ignorant of real dharma and, though wicked and haughty, account themselves virtuous, kill animals without any feeling of remorse or fear of punishment. Further, in their next lives, such sinful persons will be eaten by the same creatures they have killed in this world. Sri mad Bhagvatam 11.5.4.FS, pg, 90

NO, but what I am saying is that a lot of people here are confused as to why the Indira Gandhi sponsored Akal Takht was demolished. They are under the impression that it was demolished because the Panth or Panthic Jathabandis wanted to destroy Sikh heritage. They obviously don’t understand our Punjabi culture and manners in which Anakh and Izzat are more important than ones own life. If they had understood, they would not put the blame where it does not belong. Veer Guv, no need to get overexcited by attempting to humiliate me. I would not mind naming names. But I have been warned through PM by the good hearted admins of this forum to control myself and my rustic Punjabi ways by not getting too personal or else I will be banned from this site and my posts will get deleted. I hope you understand the constraints I am under. So no, I will not name names. But if you PM me, we can chat without any barriers.

Veer Kamalroop Singh, I can understand your frustration at our heritage going down the drain. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But what the Taksal and the rest of the Panth did in 84 was necessary for the sake of honor of the Panth. Preserving buildings and art is good, but not at the expense of ones honor. Take for example the French in WW2 who surrendered Paris to the Germans without even firing a shot only because they did not want Paris to be damaged. Even to this day people all over the world crack jokes at the French for giving up Paris without resistance. In the eyes of the world, the French have very little honor left. If the Sikhs did not take down the government sponsored Akal Takht, Sikhs would have had very little izzat in the eyes of everyone. By accepting a government made building would have been disgraceful enough as Sikhs were being humiliated all over India by taunts of Hindus like “Yadh Karega Khalsaâ€. By recreating the Akal Takht from scratch, the Panth restored a lot of honor to itself.

Beast, the fact that certain individuals are blaiming and dividing us is fact that they have an ulterior motive. It's unfortunate that you are gullible enough to become their pond in this game. Have more respect for yourself and your people brother. We need to stick togather and not listen to people trying to divide us. Think about Panthic unity, our Quami Ekta, rather than disunity.

I am not trying to direct anyone’s attention towards anywhere. Nor did I name Pyaray Veer Lalleshwari. It is you who is jumping to conclusions. I didn’t protest against people who worded out their concerns about the “destruction†of other Sikh temples and arts. But I did however show my concerns against people who say the Panth was wrong in tearing down Indira Gandees created Akal Takht. Some non-Punjabis are infact trying to create trouble and disunity within us. It’s unfortunate that you cannot see that “brotherâ€. Best way to weaken the Sikhs is to cause disunity within their ranks. I am not slandering anyone. I have not named anyone. But certain individuals are slandering against Panthic Jathabandis like Taksal and AKJ because they tore down Ashur GOI created Akal Takht in 1984.

Foolish are those who support the treacherous ways of the Ashur GOI and their “Sikh†chumpchaas. All I see is non-Punjabis trying to meddle in our affairs, trying to pose brother against brother. Judging from your post Beast, it seems these outsiders have succeeded in their agenda to some extent!

I am not supporting SGPC’s moves on other temples and art, yes they maybe wrong in that. But for a Sikh to say they were wrong for demolishing the Indira Gandhi's recreated Akal Takht have not sense of honour and dignity that we Punjabis pride ourselves with, but then again not everyone here happens to be a Punjabi, so I don’t expect them to understand our ways.

Their code of conduct is not supported by the Sanatan scriptures.

What a bunch of disgraceful comments I am seeing here. How is demolishing the Indira Gandhi’s recreated Akal Takht against our heritage? It was a matter of honour and Izzat, which I don’t expect you most of you here to understand since some of you don’t even understand our Punjabi heritage. The only people who were a disgrace to their people were the likes of Baba Santa Singh, Giani Zial Singh, and General Brar who collaborated with Indira Gandeee against the wishes of the Panth. These GOI nurtured people should be the ones who are responsible for the tearing down of the Akal Takht. Had they not acted like servants of Indira Gandhi by kissing her butt maybe the Panth would not have had to rebuild the Akal Takht from scratch. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Hari, maybe some contradictions, but atleast they all agree to vegetarianism. No contradiction there.

Lalleshwari, whether you like it or not, Manu Simrati, Srimad Bhagwatam, and Mahabharat are Sanatan scriptures. They speak out against animal consumption. But if it is Vedic texts as in the 4 vedas you want then you will be disappointed. Please take a look at the following verses from the Vedas which speak for protection of animals and against meat consumption. Protect both our species, two-legged and four-legged. Both food and water for their needs supply. May they with us increase in stature and strength. Save us from hurt all our days, O Powers! Rig Veda Samhita 10.37.11. VE, 319 One who partakes of human flesh, the flesh of a horse or of another animal, and deprives others of milk by slaughtering cows, O King, if such a fiend does not desist by other means, then you should not hesitate to cut off his head. Rig Veda Samhita, 10.87.16, FS 90 Those noble souls who practice meditation and other yogic ways, who are ever careful about all beings, who protect all animals, are the ones who are actually serious about spiritual practices. Atharva Veda Samhita 19.48.5. FS, 90 You must not use your God-given body for killing God's creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever. Yajur Veda Samhita 12.32. FS, 90 No pain should be caused to any created being or thing. Devikalottara agama, JAV 69-79. RM, 116

Those who live in accordance to the Vedic scriptures know the importance of a vegetarian diet. Ancient Indians have observed Vegetarianism since the start. This was observed by the Chinese Buddhist monk Fahsien during his travels in India. The great ancient Kshatriyas warriors of India were vegetarians. This is supported by the fact that Bhisham Pitama the grand father of the Pandavas and Kauravas explained to Yudhishtar about Sanatan Dharm on his death bed of arrows. He told Yudhishtar that the meat of animals is like the flesh of one's own son, and that the foolish person who eats meat must be considered the vilest of human beings (Anu. 114.11). The eating of 'dirty' food, it warns, is not as terrible as the eating of flesh (Shanti. 141.88 ). The Sanatan laws contained in the Manu Simrati are another proof of Sanatans Dharmas refusal to eat meat. Manu explains on 5.49 'refrain from eating all kinds of meat,' for such eating involves killing and leads to karmic bondage (bandh). In the Vedic scripture Srimad Bhagwatam, King Parikshith the last of the great Vedic King says 'only the animal-killer cannot relish the message of the Absolute Truth (Srimad Bhagvatam 10.1.4). As far as Sanatan Dharm is concearned meat based diet is a Big NO NO. Anyone eating meat is not following Sanatan Dharm.

I’m not participating in this debate. All I’m saying is that Sanatan Dharm does not support the eating of flesh. Anyone thinking they can follow Sanatan Dharm and still eat meat don’t know about Sanatan scriptures.

The cow is not sacred to the Sikhs. It is just as sacred to us as the goat and the chicken is. If eating the cow is wrong then so is the goat. Eating of all meats is wrong in accordance to Sanatan Dharm.

Although I respect Nihangs because of their history and traditions, but maybe the role the Nihangs played in 1984 is because they are no longer as fanatical as they were during pre-british India. At least they have preserved Bana, Gatka, and other Sikh traditions alive. Nihangs like Ajit Poohla have done much to discredit Nihang image in the hearts and minds of the Punjabis both Sikhs and Hindus. Sad because when people look at a Nihang wearing Bana and Shastars they look towards inspiration and guidance, but many go disappointed. That inspiration and guidance was given to people by Sant Jernail Singh Jee Bhindrawala, maybe that’s why people flocked around him as admirers.

N30 Singh, the reason why the Christian Missionaries are so successful in converting the Dalits is because the Missionaries use some very devious tactics. In Punjab they will begin by telling how Jesus is very similar to Guru Nanak. Then they start using Sikh terms like calling Jesus as “Satguru†Jesus, or the Christian congregation as “Satsangâ€, singing of Christian hymns as “kirtanâ€. Outside of Punjab, they refer to Jesus as “Issa Dev†and use Hindu terms to convert Hindus. Sikhs on the other hand cannot even keep the Sikhs in their own house as Sikhs, then how are to going to go out and convert non-Sikhs? SGPC, Sant Samaj, and other Sikh institutions are way behind the Christian Missionaries in terms of converting people. Yogi Bhajan has thus far been successful in bringing non-Sikhs into the Sikh fold. The fact that Sikhs missionaries cannot even bring Sikligars, Banjaras, Kabir Panthis and other Bhagat Panthis into the Sikh fold speaks volumes about our failures. One day hopefully another Singh Sabha movement will do all this.

Now that was a good reply Narsingha. Replies without insults and sarcasm are so much more intelligent and convincing. Good job bro! Perhaps Fateh Singh can tell us why the Kukas did not obey Baba Ram Singh Jee.

But Narsingha, the reason why the Kukas killed those butchers was because they perceived animal butchery as being morally and Dharmically wrong. So if the Nihangs also took part in this operation alongside with the Kukas, then naturally at that point of time in Punjab they also perceived animal butchery as being morally and Dharmically wrong! Thus they must have been vegetarians like the Kukas who killed those butchers.

Sikh Princess, if Nihangs were also blown up along with Kukas for the same crime, then that means that the Puraatan Nihangs were also vegetarians like the Puraatan Kukas because the crime was that they began killing the butchers of Amritsar.

Puraatan Kukaas were Akali Nihangs?

Notice from that picture that the Puraatan Namdharis did not tie predominant Kuka style dastar. I heard that is also the kind of execution many of the 1957 mutineers received.

I don’t think we should discuss conflicts that arise in the Gurdwaras in a public forum like this. What good will it do to discuss the negatives of our Gurdwaras openly? Things like this should be discussed through PM.

I dont want to name anyone, but a few forum members have refered to other Sikhs as "British influanced" and more recently "Protestent Sikhs". It is very unfair to judge others like this. If they are going to judge others like this, then others here are not going to hold back. I only hope that a certain mod acts fair in this whole Panga. I live in Ontario, and will Niddar Singh also teach Shastarvidya?

I live in Canada. To bad he is not coming to Canada. I know loads of people who are just dying to have his Darshan. They would literally kill to have his darshan. :twisted:

Beast, I would meet him, but unfortunately I don’t live in Europe. Perhaps when or if he comes to North America we can have each others Darshan.