Singh47

Naranjana, how else would you translate the terms Nark or Dozak into English? the only word I can think of is 'Hell'.

Veer Amrit Jee or any other veer here, can you briefly tell us what is written in the Pran Sangali?

Roti Jee, how devout can a Singh be if he is willing to take a Kakkar off, in other words go against the Hukam of his Guru because he or she is under the pressure of a Christian majority? For the last 2-4 decades we have Sikhs who have been cutting their hair under some supposed pressure from the Christian majority, but now Amritdhari Singhs should take their Kakkars off just to appease Christian! Sorry bro, it aint gonna happen.

BAZ, it’s a matter of principle. Why should we be obliged to conceal our Kirpans. Why can’t we carry them outside? Just to make a few Goray happy? This happens every time. In the early 1990’s they wouldn’t allow a turbaned Sikh to join the RCMP because it was not considered ‘normal’ and seemed intimidating. This is what happened to Baltej Singh Dhillon who was not allowed wear a turban in the RCMP. Why should a Sikh compromise on his principles just because it intimidates an ignorant passenger? Besides the Via Rail's view of this is full of holes. Balpreet Singh writes:

What's wrong if he wants to carry a kirpan that size? How does it interfere in the travel of passengers of Via Rail? In India, I have seen Nihang Singhs carrying kirpans much larger then that when traveling in busses and trains. This is nothing but a case of some ignorant Goray who have nothing better to do than to pick on a person who just looks different. That is exactly what it is all about.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20051023/punjab1.htm#4 Frescoes whitewashed Amritsar, October 22 The frescoes of the Chitta Akhara, near Harmandar Sahib have been given a lick of paint. Intricately carved doors and windows have also been brightened up with green paint. The two-and-a-half century old udasi cult Akhara had visitors from the Kamla Raheja Vidiyanidi Institute of Architecture and Environmental Studies (KRVIAES), Mumbai. The upkeep dismayed them. Anuj Rao and Revathi Nagrajan, both students of the KRVIAES said the paint had damaged the frescoes of Mahant Ganga Dass Viakarni. — TNS

Slugz wrote: Slugz Jee, Sant Narayan Singh Jee may have been a pious Sikh at one time during the early years. As per you, he was a one who did a lot of seva. But all his goodness and seva went out the window when he went on Indira Gandhi’s side against the wishes of the Panth. At least, the other ‘Mahpursh’ asked for an apology to the Akal Takht and were forgiven after being given minor Tankhaas. But Sant Narayan Singh jee felt no need to bow down in humility at the Akal Takht in front of the Bakshanhar Guru Panth and just admit he was wrong. May Vaheguru have mercy on his soul. slugz wrote: Slugz Jee, you are wrong on this one. The damaged Akal Takht built was funded by Indira ‘Bhandari’ against the wishes of the Sikhs. What else do you think angered the Panth leading them to excommunicate Sants involved in rebuilding it? Later on, Damdami Taksal under the guidance of Baba Takhur Singh Jee tore down the Indira Gandhi build Akal Takht, and constructed a new one in its place funded entirely by the Sikh Sangats all across the world.

84 can also be seen as a test for the Sikhs, in the sense that it was clear to us who stood which way of the spectrum between the Sikh Quam on one side and Indira Gandhi on the other. The following men stood with Indira Gandhi for the ‘Karseva’ of Akal Takht: -Jathadar Santa Singh of Budha dal -Sant Narayan Singh of Nanaksar -Sant Mangal Singh Sutlani -Sant Bikramjit Singh -Sant Nihal Singh Four out of five of these men have presented themselves at the Akal Takht and apologized for their misconduct. The only one who didn’t present himself and remained defiant till death was the late Sant Baba Narayan Singh Jee of Nanaksar.

Is Anand Chamatkar and Anand Saroovar the same thing or different books?

There are two sau sakhis. One is the Namdhari version which says that Guru Gobind Singh jee did not die and lived over a hundred years, and the other one is the version you will find in Pyara Singh Padams book. Both versions like some historical Sikh scriptures are polluted with people adding things as they go along.

should have been done long ago, but better late than never.

C'mon Hari, for old time sake

Hari, you have to read the whole Shabad in it entirety rather than just the first few lines. At the end of the Shabad the fifth Guru has written his view by saying: Kirtam naam kathay teray jehba|| Satnaam tera paraa poorbalaa|| Guru Mahraj says, Oh Lord! Using their intellect and perception people hail you through countless kirtam(qualitative) names as mentioned above, but none of these are your real names. Your original root name is Satya, which is the unchanging essence through all the ages. Guru Nanak Dev Jee describes Satya as: Aad sach jugaad sach|| Habhi sach nanak hosie bhi sach|| In Gurbani you will come across many names which are associated with certain deities (avtars/devtas), but many times those same names are used by Guru Jee for Vaheguru. Without understanding this, many people under a false impression go without understanding the true essence of Gurbani. The following are just a few of the Tukhs which are in reference to Vaishnava Gods, and judge for yourself from this if Vishnu and Vaheguru are the same or not in Guru Jee’s eyes. …hor ketay Raam raval||(464) …ketay Kaan Mahesh||(7) …Raam geyo, Ravan geyo||(1429) …Brahma Bishan Mahadeo trea gun rogee||(735)

Why are all of Lalleshwari's old posts edited and replaced by the following message? I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Moderator's Note: We have no idea. We have decided to further suspended his account to prevent his messages to be edited so sangat can benefit from his post. He has right to edit his message; however for the sake of sangat, his account was disabled so he cannot further edit his messages anymore.

Mr Lung, religious Sikhs are not extremists. Sikhs don’t go around forcing their views on others, nor do they actively go around trying to convert non-Sikhs. Neither do the most religious of Sikhs in the UK/Canada/US go around bombing non-Sikhs. So please don’t spread a non-existent negative image of Sikhs of the west. It is sad that innocent Muslims in the UK are victims of the recent backlash against their community. Most Muslims are hard working people with families to raise. The government should do more to spread awareness.

TSingh, are you saying that Sikhs should worship Vishnu or his avtars?

This Maryadha was created by Guru roop Khalsa Panth, and as far as I understand all major Sikh organizations follow and agree with this aspect of the rehet. Pheena Jee, the first person to assert that Mian Mir Jee laid the foundation of Darbar Sahib was Giani Gian Singh Jee who I believe lived during the late 19th century. According to Suraj Parkash of Kavi Santokh Singh Jee, Guru Arjun Dev Jee himself laid the foundation of Darbar Sahib and Baba Budha Jee did the ardas for it.

Black Goddess, how am I 'narrow minded'? I happen to be a very open minded person, but just not open at the expense of the Maryadha. The Maryadha is more important than you or me, and to uphold it is our duty. If you want to learn about Vedanta, Vaishnavism then by all means go ahead, but just not at the Gurdwara where we are supposed to learn Gurmat/Gursikhi. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread that I don’t make the rules, but I certainly follow them.

Admin jee, on his site http://www.swamiji.info/default.php it clearly says: "His teachings on the Bhagavad Gita are clear, concise, and easy to understand. He shows everyone the path to Self Realization. " "He is also sponsor of Vatsalyagram (Affection Village) in Vrindavan (Birthplace of Krishna) " His teachings are based on the bhagwad gita. He obviously has a devotion like affection for Krishan. Also, Vedanta seems to be a little bit of a misunderstood word. Vaishnavs and Shaivs also claim to be Vedantic, who is to say they are not? Also, even if Swami Jee believes Vedanta, how does that exactly qualify him to teach Gurmat to Gursikhs and that too of all places in a Gurdwara? As Dasam Pashaa has said Simrat, Shastar, Bedh sabhea, bauh bhedh kahea, hum ek naa manyo||

Pheena, 'Koi Baat Sunaavea' applies to the Baat of Vaheguru. Swami Jee in contrast happens to be a Vaishnava and a Bhagat/Shardaloo of Krishan. If you consider Krishan to be your supreme god, then by all means go ahead and listen to him. A Gurdwara is a place were Sants/Bhais/Gianis give us the knowledge about Gurmat and Gursikhi. But if a speaker i.e. in this case Swami Jee himself is not a Gursikh/Khalsa then how is he qualified on preaching Gurmat to Gursikhs? As I have mentioned earlier, a Mandhir or a community center seems more suitable for such lectures.

N30 Singh, according to some Nirmalas, Panch(as in Panch shabad) means 5 and not 10.

Here is what the Encyclopedia of Sikhism has to say about Sarbloh Granth. "The authorship is however questioned by researchers and Scholars of Sikhism on several counts. First, the work is marked by extraordinary effusiveness and discursiveness of style over against the compactness characteristic of Guru Gobind Singh's composition as collected in the Dasam Granth. Qualitatively too, the poety of Sarbloh Granth does not match that of Guru Gobind Singh's Chandi Charitras and aar Durga Kee dealing with the same topic of wars between the gods and the demons. Profusion of metaphor and superb imagery of the latter compositions are missing here. Second, the author of Sarbloh Granth often uses his name, "Das Gobind" or the phrase "Das Gobind Fatah satigur ki" which is generally contrary to the style of Guru Gobind Singh. Third, the Sarbloh Granth contains, quite out of context, an account of the Sikh religion, which also includes a reference to the devolution of guruship on Guru Granth and Guru Panth (stanzas 3159-66). This would be out of place in a work of Guru Gobind Singh's own composition. Lastly, there is also a reference in it to Rup Dip Bhasha Pingal (stanza 2938/8 ) a work on prosody written by one Jaya Krishna in 1719, i.e. eleven years after the death of the Guru. According to Pandit Tara Singh Narotam, a nineteenth century Sikh scholar and researcher, Sarbloh Granth is the work of Bhai Sukha Singh, a granthi or priest at Takht Harimandar Sahib at Patna Sahib, who however claimed that he acquired its manuscript from an Udasi recluse living in a forest near Jagannath (Orissa)." The Encyclopaedia of Sikhism ed. Harbans Singh Punjabi University Patiala, Vol 4, pg. 57

what was the hukamnama from Darbar Sahib that day?

Maybe he just finished bathing as you can see he has left open his Kesh for drying, and he is covered by a towel (Tolia).

N30 Singh, I think that you have misunderstood me. Sikhs (including Taksal) are not against non-Sikhs giving lectures that are social or political in nature, but are against non-Sikhs giving lectures that are religious in nature. There is a world of difference between political/social lecture and a religious lecture. At Maltan Gurdwara, you will see many non-Sikh MP’s/ MPP’s giving political/social lectures, but you will not see non-Sikhs giving religious advise to Sikhs in a Gurdwara stage, a perfect example is a few years ago when Chaman Lal was not allowed to do Kirtan and Katha at Maltan Gurdwara because he was a non-Sikh. I don’t make the rules, but I certainly do follow them.