kamalroop singh

Is there any way of quoting Gurmukhi>?

What is the Saraswati Mangal, Invocation to Durga etc, in Pan. Gulab Singh Nirmala's work? That is what I meant by Icons. E.g the Nirmala Panth draws on Hindu mythological icons to explain Gurmat................. e.g the semiotical use of Hindu icons in Nirmala texts........... "representation that stands for its object by virtue of a resemblance or analogy to it". Pandit Ishar Singh, Pandit Nihal Singh Kavinder, Pandit Gulab Singh, Pandit Gurdit Singh, Mahant Dyal Singh, Pandit Sher Singh, Sant Sampuran Singh, Pandit Atma Singh, Pandit Hardev Singh, Mahant Ganesha Singh, Pandit Nihal Singh Gobind mandir wale, Pandit Gobind Singh, Sant Tehil Singh I take it your going to post me photocopies. Thanks in advance for your generous spirit Sant TSingh Ji.

What about Hindu icons in texts?

tonyhp32, the Nihang maryada is not against the fundamental points in the Sikh Rahit Maryada, firstly the Nihangs involved in formulating the original, did not walk out. Secondly, Dasam Granth parkash is not equal to Adi Guru Granth Sahib, the Takht of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is higher, with Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth as supplements to Adi Guru Granth Sahib. The Sikh Rahit Maryada states: "A Sikh is one who believes in the writings of the ten Gurus." As for Sukh Nidhan, the Sikh Rahit Maryada states the Bujjar Kurehat is Tobbaco. As Nihangs are Bibeki and do not use Western medicines, the use of Sukh Nidhan as a medicine, is allowed. Research the internet for the various diseases that are treated wtih tetra-hydro-cannibol. The active ingredient in Sukha Nidhan. As for taking it in intoxicating quantities, this is Manmat. The Bhai Desa Singh Maryada, who was the Son of Bhai Mani Singh, states the amount that is allowed per day. It is very small amount, measured in rice grains. Cannabis according to Pharmacology, is one of the only drugs that are reverse tolerant. E.g you need less and less to effect the body. Nihangs do not use medicines as it is against Bibek. As well as the holistic ideals of Ayurveda. The Ayurvedic Granths written in Guru Gobind Singhs court, one called the Ram Vinod Granth state clearly: "Isolating Ras on its own from plants, can cause imbalance of Kapha, Vatta, and Pitta" E.g each plant has various essences, to isolate just one, like in modern drugs will cause side effects. Its beyond the scope of this post, to add anymore than this. We take for granted the cough medicines that have alcohols, painkillers like: parcetomol, aspirin, anadin extra...all of these have seriously strong drugs in them. For people who live in the Dal Panth on horse back, in the hot and cold, sleep rough, I am sure a few grains of Cannabis to keep them healthy is o.k. Some misguided Nihangs in the West use Khas Khas to make Shaheedi Degh, Nihangs consider this to be even more intoxicating than Cannabis as the poppy seeds contain small amounts of morphine, codeine, and opiates. Any Degh made with poppy seeds can never have Bhog with a Sri Sahib as it is outside of Maryada, as it can lead to dependancy. http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent....chunkiid=156998 They really need to go Pesh, and have a detox from this drug. It really can be quite dangerous. So its funny what people actually define as drugs, and not. It changes from culture to culture. In the UK people think of alcohol as "normal" and not as a drug. Other food like nutmeg has psychedelic properties, infact most foods can effect the nervous system, and be like a drug. Like a sugar rush Akal Hi Akal Gurbar Akal Degh Tegh Fateh!!!!! All the best, Kamalroop Singh

Dear all, Read the Namdhari post in the context of the discussion of the Sikh Rahit Maryada. Point being: Nanaksar, Nishkam, Buddha Dal, Nirmala's and so on, all fall in line with the minmum set out in the Sikh Rahit Maryada. Namdhari and AKJ do not. Simple. Akal Hi Akal Gurbar Akal Degh Tegh Fateh!

Akal Hi Akal I have updated the blog, check the same article again. All the best, Kamalroop Singh

http://neo-sikhism.blogspot.com/ Check the blog for an expose on Akali Baba Nihal Singh Ji, please feel free to send the link around. All the best, Kamalroop Singh

Mithar. Tell me what lies have I spread? Thanks

Does anybody have a recording of Giani Amolak Singh on his views about: 1. Rag Mala 2. Chaupai Sahib 3. Dasam Granth Thanks

As far as Dasam Granth goes the Jatha has never made a Statement that it supports the Granth. Read it properly, it says we support the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh. The Jatha follow the Maryada of upto Kharag Khet. They usually leave the rest. The late Nahar Singh directed the Singhs of Canada to do this. As he believed the rest was Devi worship. The view of Bhasauria. This is the minimum stated by the Sikh Rahit Marayada. However I believe it to be complete be-adbi of Gurbani. To read a bani incomplete. That is like reading Japji and stopping at the Salok. The is no Panj Granth that is handwritten with an incomplete Chaupai Sahib. Please see the great service by 3HO, chaupaisahib.com As for translating, there is not much to be said, until this is resolved. I think the AKJ need to go Pesh to the Akal Takht for the many years of undermining the Amrit of Kalgidhar by reintiating people. As well as the complete disregard for the fact that Sikh Rahit Maryada as a minimum gives 5 K's as Kakkar. As for Kuttha if you take amrit from Nanaksar they say: Kuttha is Halal. But we recommend you do not eat meat. While AKJ go a step further and say Kuttha is all meat. That is heretical, and has no foundation in Sikh History. All these points need to be brought to the attention of the SGPC. They are all cultish tactics. Why to form a group of people, outside of the common rahit, for other political purposes. I met Joginder Singh Talwara and discussed these exact points with him, a few years before he died. He was not a happy man. His reply to my arguments were: "Ok don't marry an AKJ or keski vali". Thats not exactly an intellectual argument is it. However I have got used to the AKJ venting their frustrations my way. Kamalroop Singh

I answer to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the Panj Singhs from where I took Amrit, nobody else. Let them do my Nindia. However it is certain they have no intellectual evidence to reply, regarding the various points of how Bhasauria and AKJ have perverted Sikhi. Regarding Parkash of Dasam Granth, thats if the Granth is on equal par with Guru Granth Sahib. Which it is not the case in the Buddha Dal and Tarana Dal. The post was pulled from Sikhsangat because the Jatha cannot take the taste of it's own medicine. They can dish it out like venom to every Sant, Taksal, Nihang, Religion, Sahijdhari. But when they are criticised they go manic. There were 50 people reading that post when it was taken down. It shows the interest people have in this debate. So it is only in the interest of the Panth to keep it going. There seems to be a Khalsa Police force out there, calling people Snatan. Always vent on the "other", or making an enemy. They need to look at themselves. If I was so low as to start slandering the various Sikhs of AKJ. It would only destroy their credibility. I know how that feels. Therefore I won't do the same nor do I feel inclined to talk about my private life and family on internet forums. It makes me wonder how sick in the head people are getting off on that type of thing. Correct me if I am wrong. Kamalroop Singh

sorry, but another point is about mass anand karaj, as performed at Hazoor Sahib literally hundred of Singhs get married at the same time, we must ask why? It breaks away the social pressures of dowry, of huge weddings and so forth, and the stress and stupidity this forms in society. The pressure some families are under nowdays, they cant even enjoy the wedding, and the bridge and groom, and under the hotlight, and thats a shame in such a spiritual moment!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005290351,,00.html Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh The Singhs who have been on this campaign for a few years now. Many times they have discussed with the families involved to stop this practice, some Gurudware and rent-a-Giani's have got away with this for too long, and its a shame it had to come to this. It must of took alot of courage and conviction to do what these Singhs did, and please dont misunderstand why they did it. People need to realise the Gurughar is for weddings, and we should make ourselves humble, and have smaller weddings. The Bharat needs to be less, and then after its down to them, but the Guru shouldnt be used in a disrespectful manner. Its interesting to note in the old days, unless a person was not an intiated Sikh, eg charanpahul, kirpan da amrit, or khande ka pahul, they were not married according to the Sikh tradition. Also why do they let Radho-soami's marry around Maharaj, when they have a "living" Guru. The bigger picture is the failure of our community is today, the boy and girl do not know the significance of Guru Ji, or the lava the patth, or what is on the first page of Guru ji, or what anything means. How Sikh are these Sikhs? Or anything explained to them, therefore this is a serious failure in our community. In the Jewish tradition a Rabbi and his wife, discuss what the ceremony is. If people knew what they are doing and why, then they would not disrespect Guru Maharaj.

vahiguroo ji ka khalsa vahiguroo ji ke fateh thanks freed bha ji, for that information, with gurus kirpa of himmat, im sure that someone will find the location of this document! Vahiguroo

vahiguroo ji ka khalsa vahiguroo ji ke fateh ji this is a brilliant piece of knowledge and many thanks to bha ji for posting it up, can you please let us know where this document is . Is there a reference to its location in the book? Thank you Kamalroop Singh

VahigurooJikakhalsa Vahiguroojikefateh!! Paras Bhag, and some Sewapanthi scriptures are based upon the Persian esoterical works by great Sufi Bhagats/Pirs like Rumi Sahib Ji, this is one of his poems translated by Dr Deepak Chopra Sahib: Vahiguroo says to Rumi Sahib Ji, You have been hiding so long aimlessly drifting in the sea of my love, even though you have always been connected to me concelled revealed, in the known in the unmanifest, i am life itself, you have been a prisoner in a little pond, i am the ocean and its turbulent flood, come merge with me, leave this world of ignorance, be with me, i will open the gate to your love Rumi Sahib ji says: I desire you more than food or water, my body my mind hunger for your taste. I can sense your presence in my heart, although you belong to all the world by being in silent passion. For one gesture one glance from you............

VahiguroojikakhalsaVahiguroojikefateh!! well balpreet, I edited spelling mistakes..........not your name, that was a part of the original post. In terms of Baba Ji, I met him at a Rainsbai at Bibeksar Gurudwara that happens quite regularly there. From then on he told me of his residence at a Shiromani Panth Akali Buddha Dal Panjwa Takht Chalda Vahir Bharat Hindustan Chionee. Referring to Baba Ji as an "old darjee from Dasuya" shows how much respect you give those that have been abused for the movement that you so vehemently support. He is not a Singh not a respected elder, just an "old darjee" in your eyes. I hope one day you have the courage to meet Baba Ji, look in his eyes, and have empathy with the suffering, pain and torture he went through, and still torments him in his daily life. Also I pray that any remaining Babbar or Akj in India do not harass Baba Ji for allowing himself to be filmed, and going against the story portrayed by the Babbar Khalsa International (proscribed) Organisation. Only God knows what really happended I for one do not. I respect your stance of the subject, as for many people Sukhdev Singh was great hero and role model.For a Babbar Khalsa Singh like yourself, it is only natural to make some assumptions in your vision of what Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar was. I personally love the persona of Sant Jarnail Singh but I never met him, I can only go on eyewitness accounts, and naturally our opinions hence maybe biased. Your current breakdown of details take nothing away from his eye witness account. I have not watched this video in 2 years, therefore it may be possible some small details I have got wrong. If the Jatha gets in anyway annoyed, I will make sure I direct them to this post where you have asked me specifically to post it. Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj

see the blue Nishan of the Khalsa in the back ground......Baba Ji lives here with the Shiromani Panth Akali Buddha Dal Panjwa Takht Chalda Vaheer Bharat Hindustan

This is Baba Ji, this photograph was taken by me a few years ago. Look at the Skin on his hands. He is hiding them as he does not want them to come out in the photograph. A bibi who saw this photograph said his eyes show the pain he has been through.

Vahiguroojikakhalsa Vahiguroojikefateh!!! Dear Singh123 and Neo, The poor Baba Ji who is from Sukhdev Singhs pind is a tailor by profession, had his hands smashed. His fingers were literally broken and are now healed twisted and curled up and unable to extend which causes him a great deal of pain. On top of this he has a hideous skin infection. The police knew he was a tailor, and not only broke them ,by using iron bars and rollers, they also decided to pour acid on his hands which has led to an inflammed form of dermititis. Only two of his fingers work and he does everything with them. He now lives with the Nihangs of Buddha Dal. They know he is AKJ but they get on well. Believe it or not he still sews baney and keshera and does an excellent job, although not by hand but with a machine. This is how he survives.They sustain him with accomodation, and the money he makes from his profession he keeps. Some of the Nihangs from the U.K for the last 3 years have been paying for some of his treatment. The idea that the Nihangs hate anybody is a myth. The only battle they have is ideologically, not personal. Balpreet Singh it is easy to listen to the propanga about all the Kharkoo movement in another country but the truth is very hard to find, we all have our bias, which is another topic altogether. Personally I have no problem with Sukhdev Singh being married more than once. This Singh was tortured because he would not disclose were Sukhdev Singh was. If Singh123 wishes, when I get a chance, for the courtesy of the Sangat I will put up the whole interview on any website willing to take it. I have avoided doing so for a number of years now, but the myths are a bit hard to take, and I take this as a prompt. Therefore if the Singhs from the Jatha are prepared to listen to an eyewitness account, from someone who was clearly tortured by the Police they should agree because I in no way wish to create another year long argument. Please can somebody explain to me how I can change the video into an mpg and what leads software etc required. Thanks K>S

VahigurooJiKaKhalsa VahigurooJiKeFateh! Just to clarify the situation, while spending time in India, went to a number of Rainsbais. Talked to and interviewed a Singh from AKJ from Sukhdev Singh Babbars own pind. Recorded this on video. This Singh was tortured also, and his hands are still mutilated to this day. He confirmed that Sukhdev Singh has two wives. He also has children with both wives. He confirmed their location pinds etc. I think however to put this video on the net, is too sensitive along with the AKJ being labelled terrorist, plane bombers and proscribed. I certainly do not want to labell the chardikalah, Bhalla thinking, Nam abhiyasi, Gurmukh Singhs and Singhnees of the AKJ as polygamists. That would simply add full to the fire.

http://www.saco.freeserve.co.uk/liveschanged/sikhwoman.htm http://www.saco.freeserve.co.uk/liveschanged/sikhman.htm

VahigurooJiKaKhalsa VahigurooJiKeFateh! Dear Sangat Ji, after a recent converstion with my neighbour, I feel some what compelled to right a sort piece on this subject. For some unknown reason the British, and European, as well as their American counterparts felt it is necessary to go to every corner of the globe to conquer. This involved analysing the cultures present in the geographical location, then some how get monetry gain from that civilisation, as well as of course bring them into the "faith", and give them a place in heaven with Jesus Ji's blessings. A part of this "modernisation" process made people feel that they need material goods, which of course are everyday necessities. Make them believe that their own culture is primitive, and not so good as the invading Christian materialistic culture. Lord Curzon often wrote about how the Indian needs to think like the British. This involved setting up education centres and Universities, and dismantle the traditional ones. This also involved making people change their dress, and sadly their outlook on life itself.(Samurai and the American colonialists). What amazes me is that Western culture is so critical of Eastern literature, and practices. Everything that I have seen written by the British on Sikhi starts one kind of controversy or another, however they fail to examine their own faith with this critical stance. For example the legitamacy of the Bible, which has been changed so many times, it is unrecognisable from the original, if the original exists. If a Sikh was to spend lots of wasted time, like the Priests have trying to dismantle Sikhi, I am pretty sure that it would be a much better job. Not because we know more, but simply that so many holes exist that it is unbelievable. A Sikhs job is to help everybody in whatever way, as we simply believe in God and no religion at all. We have been attacked ideologically by the colonial, and Protestant powers, from the angle of our Canon, e.g Rag Mala and Dasam Guru's Granth Sahib. To even Bhai Bala even existing!!!! The Prostant ethic infused into the Singh Sabha the whole idea of definations. The division between Sehajdhari and Amritdhari, is all a result of the British classifications. General Dyers saropa, and the formation of the SGPC is all a recognisable impact of the British mind. Instead of select, we now have election! How nice it is that we have changed Gurus own maryada, with a Farangi one. Whole nations the Native Indians, The Natives of Australia, many Oriental dynasties, and South American Natives, have been killed, raped, converted, enslaved, mentally enslaved,economically prostituted by the tyranny of the Colonial Monarchies and Priests. However we as Sikhs seem to think that we have been untouched!!! For any country to keep traditions is uncivilised. Like the dress of a Sikh or our languages and dress. However have we ever wondered how much pomp and tradition has been kept here in the U.K? My neighbour acussed Sikhs of being backward and primitive. This was my reply in short. I asked in what way? She replied in the way that you look, and arranged marriages, keeping weapons etc. I replied, " The queen wears a crown, its look quite ridiculous, almost comic. However it is the tradition. There are armed soldiers with Big Black pom poms on their head. There is an archbishop for the country. There is a man called "Black rod" in the houses of Parliment. There is a house of "lords" that earn that title via hereditary means. This country didnt want to go to war with Iraq, but the government still sent them in. The royal family has always arranged marriages. The Princes carry swords. The queen keeps horses and too many customs to narrate. Then how can you say Sikhs are backward? The simple Truth is the British have a complex of being superior. A Christian society that believes in "turn the other cheek" yet conquered lands for wealth, and had colonial powers in the life-time of people around today." We as Sikhs should be proud that we have a young history that is clean from these kind of things. The only problem is we fight amongst ourselves and I wonder who had a hand in that ?

lol too funny! Narsingha..........

As Shaka nyorai has pointed out that this viewpoint is heretical and from the Sunni perspective. When I read the material, and I cross referenced it from other Sunni sites, I cant help thinking does any of this fit in with the modern day world.