palm_w1

Iraqi Democracy, US style The USers have outdone themselves this time. As they 'civilize' the 'savages' in Iraq and bring them democracy and freedom they have actualled perverted democracy by banning certain people from standing in the elections. Could this be the slippery slope to the USers only allowing candidates who are pro US to stand in the elections? http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0608-05.htm http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/...1233652,00.html

admin, I have seen this question raised many times but in 1986 a book was published entitled 'Constitution of Khalistan'. This book was published in Amritsar and it is a remarkable piece of work, especially considering it was published by what many people would class as 'a bunch of half educated terrorists' (not my view) and published in the most hostile of regions where the indian Govt had unleashed its rain of terror. After having read the book i think there definately is a very clear vision of what Khalistan is and how it should be run and how the supposed state would function. If anyone is interested in reading this book i can lend it to them if they live in the Birmingham area of UK. I suggest all peoples who make comments such as Admins should read the book rather than post to Hindu Propoganda sites (i.e. punjabilok). It is also rather interesting to note that the authors quote Ram Narayan Kumar in there article, it is interesting to note they don't quote more of his work, 99.99% of which is critical of the Indian state. Again watch his video entitled: Dissapearances in Punjab. And yes we should forgive IF AND ONLY IF the persons who attempted to carry out the genocide of the sikhs come forward and admit to their crimes and show sorrow, however we should never forget the past as that would be disrespectful to all those who have fallen due to the terror unleashed by the Govt sworn to protect them. We should learn from and not bury history. A most noble undertaking but try saying that to the mother who has just had her son murdered by the Punjab Police just because he was amritdhari. Its all good to sit safely in 1st world countries and make statements like that but the facts on the ground mean this is very difficult to achieve. Also i don't think any1 would say u shud hate upon ur hindu, muslim and christian neighbours, i don't think even the most staunch khalistanis would say this. However that doesn't mean u shud turn a blind eye to history. Live your life, enjoy your neighbours, but discuss, talk about and inform about reality. I don't see why your hindu neighbours would start hating u just for standing up for human rights (unless they are of a biased background). It highlights to all the readers on this forum how corrupt the indian Govt is and if that helps create awareness of the truth in the midst of the massive misinformation campaign by India it is a very very good thing. Also it is well known why people don't travel to india to do stuff like campaigning, look at the khalra case. A little hard to campaign when ur dead. Congratulations for trying Insaaf (even if i don't necessarily agree with all your views). Also SP u say not to make provocative statements but to carry out actions. Is making a statement or quoting a fact not a form of action. On the one hand u advocate peace but then challenge him to go to india and carry out 'actions'. There is nothing wrong with highlighting terrorism carried out by India. And like i have stated before peace is a good ideal but when u r under attack and an attempted genocide is under way i have no problem with someone raising arms to defend themselves. Seeing some of the previous statements in this thread regarding peace and sikhi perhaps someone would like to comment on the following statement by Guru Gobind Singh Ji: [align=center:68d0020756][/align:68d0020756]

the article is blatantly one sided and full of factual error, once again showing the indian media has no journalistic integrity. it talks about sikh extremists striking terror but totally ignores the terror campaighn of the indian state and its paramilitaries. It also classes Bhindrawale as a seperatist but to my knowledge he never asked for khalistan. It also says the Golden Temple was untouched when in fact it was riddled with bullet holes. for an interesting view on how indian media is controlled by the state (through uses of advertising quotas etc) read 'Punjab: The Fatal Miscalculation' by Patwant Singh and Harji Malik.

hey i am having a bar-b-q on the burning rubble of my local infant school, they bombed it with a stealth. every1 feel free to join me.

lol, its not even the Beeb, this time he has posted and its actually the New York Times!! Again a right wing zionist jewish propoganda site.

this guy is a conspriacy nut. again a right wing jewish propoganda site.

Bush tries to prevent his troops being accountable for war crimes, and bullies 3rd world countries into giving USers immunity The International Criminal Court was set up to be able to try anyone in the world for war crimes carried out anywhere in the world, a massive step forward to making all people accountable and preventing rogue regimes from harbouring those guilty of war crimes. It was ratified by almost all countries, except for the regime in the US. They made the UN give their troops immunity from prosecution. Surprise surprise then the USers commit war crimes in Iraq, whoever was advising Bush obviously had good foresight, and it raises questions about how long ago Bush has been planning to attack Iraq. Now that the immunity is about to end the USers have started a new dirty tactic. They are forcing poor countries to sign treaties guaranteeing that USers who carry out war crimes will not be deported to the Hague to be tried by the ICC, giving the USer war criminals freedom to travel to these countries. How is it making these countries sign these agreements, by threatening to stop aid and thus hold the poorer countries to random. dirtiest trick in the book. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3834089.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3035296.stm http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040623/325/ewjiy.html Rather more cynical seeing as the US administration is trying to block world justice efforts, is the news that Rumsfeld actually ordered the use of torture against suspects in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. Could it be possible that the regime is trying to protect their own regime members from prosecution. It was ironic that rumsfeld was also the person who went and sold saddam weapons in the first place, and actually personally met the tyrant with smile and handshakes, knowing that saddam had used chemical weapons on civilians. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040623/323/ewhdi.html

Firstly let me point out I don't hate Americans, but I do have issues with ignorant people who try and justify genocides, is it too much for some of your co-nationalists to turn around and admit their regime is wrong? I am British and I condemn the British Government for its policies, I have no problem with being honest. It doesn't make me any less of a person to stand up and say i don't agree with the British Government. I don't stand up and try and justify my governments wrongs. For things like Jallianwale Bagh and Iraq i condemn them. I don't go and wish they would happen again and with increased fervour (like dropping more nukes on Japan). Yes the US has done a lot of good in the world, and i credit it for that, but it doesn't mean I have to keep silent about its negative policies. And yes we should be aware of the crimes of other nations, but to be honest they are well documented already, but what i find is that most people are of a view that the US is a utopia for all people to live in, a model for the world. Life ain't that simple, by pointing out some of the USs' wrongs a few people may become a bit more wiser about the world, and especially their Govt (currently an extreme right wing regime led by a monkey). I bet most americans don't even know half the things there Govt has done because of a biased education system and media complicity. And besides i see nothing wrong in posting articles which carry the truth, and the more certain persons justify the USs' evil the more i will post. I do try and do something about the state of the world, one of the things is promoting awareness. I think one way to a more stable world is regime change in the US, and if educating people about US foreign policy is one way of helping achieve that so be it. Let me reiterate i have no problem with the liberal USers, but i don't agree with those Users who promote fascist policies across the world. and rather than u guys getting pissed of with people posting the truth about your country, why don't u just learn from it and make some effort towards ensuring your nation never carries out these crimes again. And yes i do point out the wrongs of the British Govt, not just 'US hatin' as u class it. If u want evidence go and see my website, i point out many wrongs of the British, as political commentary and sarcasm. (www.geocities.com/palm_w1 hasn't been updated in a while). All haters who want to hate upon those posting the truth go and post ur death threats on my guest book. Once again rather than getting pissed of try and learn from them. Also why do u feel angry at these topics being posted, if people point out my -ve's i will take them on board and contemplate upon them to try and become a better person for it. You don't have to close your eyes and pretend your Govt does nothing wrong to be an American. I really can't understand why people are angry. Except for perhaps the reincarnation of Hitler that we have posting. Nothing against u sukhi, i have many americano friends and all but 1 of them agree with my views. Debate and educate

Genocide of Native Americans by the USers The native indians were the original inhabitants of the lands of the Americas. Agressive Europeans started their genocide while the lands were still European colonies. the newly declared United States continued similar conquests. Massacres occurred across the land such as the Wounded Knee Massacre. Not only was the method of massacre used, other methods for "Indian Removal" and "clearing" included military slaughter of tribal villages, bounties on native scalps, and biological warfare. After US independance the genocide of the native indians accelerated, and a population of millions of indians was reduced to a a few hundred thousand. The original peoples, the native americans had been robbed of their lands by the USers, been forced to sell at very cheap rates at gunpoint, or simply killed and had there lands annexed. They were pushed into reservations and kept drunk and drugged up so they would not question the virtual slavery they had been pushed into. Even to this day they are amongst the poorest strata in US society, the original lords of the land are now slaves to the USers. Highlight: massacre at Wounded Knee The Wounded Knee Massacre in 1890 (which was originally referred to by the United States army as the Battle of Wounded Knee -- a descriptive moniker that remains highly contested by the Native American community) is known as the event that ended the last of the Indian wars in America. As the year came to a close, the Seventh Cavalry of the United States Army brought an horrific end to the century-long U.S. government-Indian armed conflicts. On the bone-chilling morning of December 29, devotees of the newly created Ghost Dance religion made a lengthy trek to the Pine Ridge Reservation in southwestern South Dakota to seek protection from military apprehension. Members of the Miniconjou Sioux (Lakota) tribe led by Chief Big Foot and the Hunkpapa Sioux (Lakota) followers of the recently slain charismatic leader, Sitting Bull, attempted to escape arrest by fleeing south through the rugged terrain of the Badlands. There, on the snowy banks of Wounded Knee Creek (Cankpe Opi Wakpala), nearly 300 Lakota men, women, and children -- old and young -- were massacred in a highly charged, violent encounter with U.S. soldiers. http://isis.csuhayward.edu/ALSS/soc/NAN/dd/6800sj/slj.htm http://free.freespeech.org/americanstatete...ianPeoples.html http://www.nemasys.com/ghostwolf/Native/genocide.shtml http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/na...-americans.html http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Lesson_41_Notes.htm http://www.pilgrimhall.org/daymourn.htm http://www.lastoftheindependents.com/wounded.htm http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/...ee/WKIntro.html

Beast forget arguing with this guy, he ignores all arguments which show the true nature of the US administration and goes of on his own random tangent. Anything that blatantly shows US terrorism is ignored and he just simply invents facts and so on. e.g. US massacre at My Lai. I think the best way is to keep posting more about terrorism carried out by the US. It is blatantly obvious too everyone this guy is full of shit, everyone can tell by looking at his posts. Just let him keep on posting his nazi views and showing the world what he, i assume an american citizen, is really like. God bless America for the My Lai massacre. (intense sarcasm intended)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bombaclaat http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bombaclat

better than boombaklat

This is going to be my final post replying to Jamuka's fascist ramblings. You obviously find it very difficult to grasp the concept of an impartial and unbiased news source. The BBC for all its faults is far more reliable than an Israeli Govt sponsored think tank. I guess you will start quoting from 'Mein Kampf' as your next impartial source. You openly admit u have no hard evidence but base it on the fact that they are muslim so must thus be 'not so innocent'. Yet u still have the audacity to claim history is a lie, every1 knows and even the Israelis openly admit Sharon turned a blind eye to the lebanese christian massacres of the lebanese muslims. I do recognise that some Palestinians commit terrorism but that doesn't justify Israeli Govt terror. Almost everything u say is either a lie or highly biased. I suggest all readers read Jamukas posts carefully and make their own judgement. From ur posts i can see u r becoming more and more frustrated and abusive in ur language. May i suggest u relieve urself somewhat, i am sure u will find some suitable material on the net if u google 'bush' and 'nude' together. I sincerely hope u find what u are looking for in life, perhaps some sort of 'utopian' fascist society like hitlers third reich. Long may u enjoy dropping nuclear bombs on Japanese civilians and revel in the glory of your achievements. http://www.whtt.org/rpr/021011.htm http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Israeli_Tr...hoot_042503.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in...onflict/nun.stm From now i will not reply to ur posts as i can see u becoming very abusive and possibly threatening the more ur frustration grows.

shows how the economic and political ambitions of a few unprincipled 'sikhs' lead them to jump into bed with evil doers responsible for the attempted genocide of their fellow sikhs.

wicked special effects. also interesting is the reference to kyoto agreement (or perhaps lack of it)

The second point post i will make regarding American atrocities is the Massacre at My Lai, a small village in vietnam, carried out by American GI troops in 1968. In 3 hours the US soldiers rounded up 500 civilians and murdered them all in cold blood. The villages' young men had left to work in the fields, leaving old men, women and children, all unarmed. Some they raped, others who surrendered where shot dead with their hands held high, even babies were clubbed to death by the US army. Lt Calley was the only soldier out of the 120 USers who carried out the evil terrorism who was convicted of a crime. He was sentenced to life imprisonment but Nixon rewarded him for the attempted genocide by releasing him after 3 days in prison. Perhaps Nixon supported the actions of his troops. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/...mylai/64344.stm Article about the massacre http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/...mylai/64640.stm the cover up and attempt by the USers to stop the world knowing the truth. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/...mylai/65065.stm the whitewash, where all the murderers were quietly sent home by the US and the charges dropped on grounds like: 'they have left the army so cannot be prosecuted' etc etc. http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/mylai.htm May the memories of the victims of this US massacre never be forgotten. I pray for all those who were murdered by the USers but whose cases have never come to public attention. Only Waheguru knows how many other 'My Lai's' the Users committed, i think many more massacres were carried out but covered up.

thank you for trying to educate me on palestinian barbarity to their own children. I have read ur link and once again congratulate you on finding such a reliable source. An israeli website quoting the Israeli army. Most trustworthy and reliable. Also please try not to label all the palestinians with these accusations. tell me do all palestinians kill their children, its a wonder they manage to keep their population going when they kill all their babies as u claim. Do u have evidence these people are 'mostly' not innocent. please do share it with the world. To control Hamas i propose Israel withdraws from all occupied terrotories and stops terrorising palestinians. then Hamas' grassroots support will stop and lead to the end of the organisation. no, i don't take prozac. Also do u refute that the IDF shoot dead little kids who throw stones at them? I will post some evidence for every1 to c if u like. It was actually the israelis who tortured the lebanese there. i think the incident your referring to is when the current Israeli prime minister, Ariel 'washing powder' Sharon authorised christian militias to murder muslim civilians. Secondly the UN says the Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights is illegal. Ironically in ur next point u use the fact that the UN recognises israel as proof of its validity. Why is the Golan Heights fair game? Vanunu is a traitor to his country but a hero to the world. He exposed Israels secret nuclear weapons program, a program they even lied to their greatest ally, the US about. Perhaps u shud be more specific when u post. world does not equal UN. Once again I reiterate hardly any states in the middle east region recognise Israel as a Government, country or nation. yawn, once again i repeat, read the first post, the purpose of this thread is to define terrorism. Once again i congratulate u on posting such an unbiased report. u r seriously deluding urself. the link u have posted to is an extreme right wing israeli think tank in the US. hardly a source of accurate information regarding the leader of a people they have vowed to destroy. arafats official website claims he was born in Jerusalem. http://www.p-p-o.com/Eng/2000/indexce.htm. i think this is a more reliable source of info. to be honest even even though he is born in Jerusalem i am not to concerned where he was born, it isn't that major an issue in my life. So what r u saying, the US is supporting terrorist regimes? by your logic if they are declaring Pakistan an ally and pakistan is commiting terrorism the US is supporting terrorism. Quite a quagmire. Thanks for the challenge but no thanks. u obviously have a lot of time but i have a life to live outside this forum and can't be bothered to research middle eastern history from thousands of years ago. my concern is with the current evil being commited by the israelis against innocent civilians, not who populated the area 5000 years ago. again thanks for the unbiased article, israeliinsider.com sounds like another reputable news source, i think CNN had better watch out. also interesting to note that the article states: "Loss of Jerusalem to Islam might herald the demise of Western civilization." HA HA HA. I assume that was supposed to be funny, How would giving back one city that rightfully belongs to the palestinians (nb palestinians, i am not saying muslims) bring about the downfall of western civilisation. also it is only the israelis who want this city, not western civilisation as the article claims. Please don't confuse the 2. I have a serious request, please stop wasting my time and the time of others by posting such articles. they are so biased they make u look like a laughing stock.

wow, what an eventful day. boombaklat, there is no spin, it is all fact, if u can disprove what i say go for it.

u can call me guv_is_a_bandar

u can call me susan if it makes u happy but palm is fine

boombaklat, i am still waiting for ur reply. u seem to have gone silent on this topic all of a sudden. maybe my 'assumptions' (as u label them) were based on too much reality to make comfortable reading.

can some1 summarize this in 10 lines, way to much to read. and chomsky is a don, his books are wicked, i encourage everyone to read them

I was speaking to a friend the other day who informed me of the following documentary which was aired on the BBC recently. It exposes sai baba as having abused young boys, i quote: Alaya, a former follower who claims he was sexually abused by the swami, says in the programme: "I remember him saying, if you don't do what I say, your life will be filled with pain and suffering." devotees such as Alaya Rahm and Mark Roche, . . . . . . . . Both had been subjected to Sai Baba rubbing oil on their genitals. "He took me aside", said Alaya Rahm, "put the oil on his hands, told me to drop my pants and rubbed my genitals with the oil. I was really taken aback." Back in India, there are serious questions to be asked of politicians, who seem to have continuously ignored the problem. Indeed, some would say, the correct position for these politicians appears to be at the feet of Sai Baba. My purpose in highlighting this on a sikh forum is that the person who told me about it was 'sikh' and was actually a follower of this 'sant'. Did anyone actually watch this documentary? What did u think of it? I found it amazing how many people just say 'so what, he has done a lot of good for india'. Does this not change your view of him if u did follow him? should sikhs even follow people like this? Why do indians seem to be so prone to following hindu godmen? Does this reflect badly upon the hindu religion? Are the BBC anti hindu as the RSS and other right wing hindu organisations claim? anyway, judge yourselves. here are the links: http://www.asiansinmedia.org/news/article.php/television/463 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_world/3791921.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_world/3813469.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_world/3811875.stm

And regarding the pipeline, i just searched bbc because i was too lazy to surf the net. however i may as well defend myself a little better. some of the following sites may or may not be the most trusted news sources on the net so i posted a few to get a spread of opinion. the general concensus is that although the afghan war was revenge for 9/11 a massive twin motive was to consolidate the USer regimes grip on the worlds hydrocarbon supplies. i know it is long and don't expect it all to be read by everyone but i did it for the sake of providing evidence to some of the more sceptic USers. enjoy reading: interesting from bbc website http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm: "Unocal invited Taliban representatives to their corporate headquarters in Sugarland, Tx. (11) to discuss the pipeline project. They were thereafter invited to Washington for meetings with Administration officials." http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm quotes many authentic news sources like BBC and CNN http://www.payvand.com/news/02/jul/1040.html The best way for transportation of the Caspian oil and gas out of the region is construction of pipelines to the open seas. In this sense, Iran is, of course, the best natural way, and at the same time, the most economical way. But the policy of the Western states, especially USA, in the last decade is based on denying Iran and the Russian Federation from getting the upper hand. The effects of the trans-Afghan pipeline are undoubtedly very important. Some aspects of this issue are: The diversification of resources for Western countries and their allies, and finding alternative sources that can be used in case of endangerment of Persian Gulf resources, because of relations with Arab countries and the ramifications of Arab-Israeli conflict and the American policy. Control of the West over routes of oil and gas, especially towards the Eastern Asian countries, including Japan and China. The main market for the Caspian oil and gas is the Indian continent and also the far Eastern countries. America can have a great influence on all concerned countries by maintaining strong hand on their lifeline. Control over gas resources in Afghanistan. Also, control over the new lifeline of Afghanistan as the transit country. The current President of the USA is interested to follow the interests of oil and gas sector, like his father who had an eye to the same interests in the Persian Gulf War. The Russian Federation is another big loser in case Trans- Afghan pipeline is constructed. "If this project is realized, Moscow experts say, the Russian economy will face two unpleasant consequences. Firstly, Russian energy sector will lose Turkmenistan gas that is now being delivered to Russia and, in the long run perspective, also Uzbek gas… Secondly, if central Asian gas exports are directed south, across Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean, Russia will lose transit revenue." http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Colum...,579174,00.html In 1998, Dick Cheney, now US vice-president but then chief executive of a major oil services company, remarked: "I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian." But the oil and gas there is worthless until it is moved. The only route which makes both political and economic sense is through Afghanistan. Transporting all the Caspian basin's fossil fuel through Russia or Azerbaijan would greatly enhance Russia's political and economic control over the central Asian republics, which is precisely what the west has spent 10 years trying to prevent. Piping it through Iran would enrich a regime which the US has been seeking to isolate. Sending it the long way round through China, quite aside from the strategic considerations, would be prohibitively expensive. But pipelines through Afghanistan would allow the US both to pursue its aim of "diversifying energy supply" and to penetrate the world's most lucrative markets. Growth in European oil consumption is slow and competition is intense. In south Asia, by contrast, demand is booming and competitors are scarce. Pumping oil south and selling it in Pakistan and India, in other words, is far more profitable than pumping it west and selling it in Europe. http://www.sentienttimes.com/02/feb_mar/oilT.html http://www.zmag.org/tanteroil.htm http://www.geocities.com/goo798_eh2/Terrorism_War.html http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1208-04.htm George W. Bush justifies his bombing of Afghanistan as a war against terror. A twin motive, however, is to make Afghanistan safe for United States oil interests. http://www.kiddmillennium.com/Trans-Afghanpipeline.htm ENERGY INTERESTS, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, AND THE POST-TALIBAN TRANS-AFGHAN PIPELINE now i rest my tired fingers, until somebody else ignorant of current affairs requires some evidence.

who will be constructing that pipeline? which nation? who owns most of the extraction facilities in those ex-soviet sattelites? just food for thought. and true i was a bit offensive (i wrote the post in the heat of the moment). apologies to anyone offended by my language but sometimes it is quite frustrating having to repeat the same things over and over again for someone to follow. I will try and refrain from personal comments in the future.