SunnySingh

Why Do Hindus Hate Sikhs For? I would say, the whole world is crazy/mad. Each and every follower of the different dharams on this earth has hatred for others. And not because the dharams are right or wrong, that is a different matter, but because of intolerance and ego, thus a heavy cover of ignorance covering their budhi. The fact is, nobody has seen that highest supreme Truth, be it in any dharam, not with their physical eyes, but with their inner spiritual faculty of seeing within. Had anybody seen that supreme Truth, would have realized that it is the One same Light which shines within all. It is under the dirty polluted mind, that man commits atrocities against their fellow human beings. Why the hell trying to convert or force others to bring them into our dharam? Each one has his/her own load of karam on their heads, nobody can increase or diminish it, let everyone believe or not believe, in what way will it profit us. We have not yet saved our souls for we ourselves are weak, so why the hell to change others? Utter madness. Then too people say we are religious and we will go to heaven ... What a nonsense .... The spiritual path is individual not collective as the fools try to convince others ... Then, what the hell can anyone do for others, isnt that madness? We are responsible of destroying this planet with all our petty mindedness, with our wars, conversions, hatred, killings, as seen in the past and as well as in the present days, and for sure it will continue so. We do not know how to live in peace and respect towards others, we blindly laugh at others, and thus spread hatred and anger in others, this in return creates violence and as a consequence of it, wars, disputes, killlings .... If anybody wants to be muslim, let them be. If anybody wants to be a hindu, let them be. If anybody wants to be a christian, let them be. If I want to be a sikh, it is my problem, not of others. If anybody wants to go to hell, or heaven, let them go, for in no way can anyone change anybody´s fate. The main thing is to stop being so petty minded, and start being better human beings. Nature has created every being and placed them in their own natural circumstances, so let us not be foolish and go against Nature. I was just recalling @Lucky Jee´s post some days back, for when he faced yam doots in the inner realms, he was not asked to which race or country or dharam did he belong ... but only if he had done Nam simran. And for this very reason, he was spared and sent back to earth to make out something(Nam simran) which really matters, in order to acquire salvation of his soul, and which he is doing diligently as a top priority in his present life. Not that he is running away from his worldly duties, but has realized that human life is very precious, and not to be lost so cheaply, and that the only devotion which is accepted in His darbar is Nam kee kamaee. Bhaee parapat manukh de hureeya, Gobind milan kee yeh tayree bareeya. That much importance is of human life, to only realize Him.

Guest Shaheed Jee, as brother Souldfinder has perfectly said: amrit is amrit and it shouldn't be divided by marayada. So there is hardly anything to be added, but just to confirm that it is a fair and a practical answer, thus agreed with it. Cause, the Panj Pyare are just intermediators, are just witness of you seeking Him and to love Him for the sake of loving Him. That is it. After all in the end, the reality is that only we, each one of us as individual souls and Him is what remains, and counts. Then too, I would just add: Trust Waheguru with all your heart, do not depend much on your own understanding, seek His will in all what you do, and He will show you the path to take.

Guest jee, below are some inspiring sat bachans from the Bani. sarab niDhaan naam har har kai jis karam likhi-aa tin paavaa. All treasures are in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har; he alone obtains it, who has it written in his karma. * Also , if you wish to stay at His lotus Feet, keep His name in your mind at all times, this will automatically keep your head at His charan kamal. In fact, Sachay Patshah is nothing physical, yet by repeating His holy name devotedly, it is like staying at His holy lotus Feet. Receiving Amrit, means becoming aware of establishing a loving and a faithful relationship with Him at all times, and this Bro, can only be done through the repetition of His holy amritful Name God bless you.

God watches everything.mp4

Thanks Lucky Jee. From your post, at least a couple of conclusions can be made. First, that no matter how much paapee one can be, there is always mercy from His side, more than deserved by any of us. Secondly, the very essence of Sikhee, which is the bhagtee of Naam japna to free ourselves from all our entanglements and above all, to stay out of the reach of Jam doots. (There where Nam abides, not even Kal Purush dares to come near). In this sense, I will not add anything more, let each one make an inner self consciouss exam of oneself, and see if one is doing that bhagti, of which you are an example, a witness, and that which is the true devotion performed as mentioned throughout the Bani. It is a mark of His grace also, that you are relating us what we all ought to do, and fear a bit at least, in doing any harm/misbehaviour of any type with anybody in His creation. Once again thanks.

Hi seattlesingh, in my opinion it is not the speed which takes oneself within, but it is the concentration in the jaap, with the ingredients of sharda, determination, and intense love to have His darshan, which takes our attention within sooner.

He the Highest, has so many devotees, so many lovers, so many admirers, gyanis, so many mahapurakhs throughout the different centuries... just countless And many among them tell us to do this or that so many times, go here or there, wear or do not wear this or that, as if all that was part and parcel of His bhakti. And many a times we may find all that fascinating, and take them as something valuable spiritualwise. But to see if all that they preach is truly true, can only be possible if we can check to see within the parameteres of Gurbani, and see how near their teachings/preachings are close to the divine words of Guru Sahiban, who are the supreme authority in true spirituality, which is what can only take us to our highest goal of waheguru Akal Purukh. That is why it is said: Satgur bajoh hor kachee hae bani. (Anything else that does not match with the teachings of Guru Sahiban, is totally false, thus it makes us blind and takes us farther away from our aim of Waheguru, the only everlasting and eternal Truth). Following are some verses from Guru Jee where we are clearly taught what true devotion to Waheguru is all about: ਬਿਨੁ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਜੈਸੇ ਸਰਪ ਆਰਜਾਰੀ ॥ Bin Simaran Jaisae Sarap Aarajaaree || Without meditating in remembrance on the Lord, one's life is like that of a snake. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਾਸ ॥ Bin Simaran Dhhrig Karam Karaas Without meditating in remembrance on the Lord, all of one's actions and works are cursed. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਗਰਧਭ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ॥ Bin Simaran Garadhhabh Kee Niaaee || Without meditating in remembrance on the Lord, one is like a donkey. ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਬਚਨਿ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜੁ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ Gur Kai Bachan Keeno Raaj Jog Through the Guru's Word, I practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ॥੮॥੮॥ Naanak Gur Bhaettiaa Paarabreham ||8||8|| O Nanak, meeting with the Guru, I have found the Supreme Lord God. The sacred Name of Waheguru/Satnam, is the means to get ferried across from the mayavee and perishable creation to the real of Highest and eternal abode of Waheguru Akal Purukh.

Beautiful post, probably Samarbir Jee was looking for this type of answer.

Brother Ragmaala, destiny is destiny after all, which no one can change, and so if there is not much one can do, then just as we eat, sleep, or any other activities in our daily routines, bandgi/bhakti can also be done, that too without any cost or extra efforts. Plus with the benefit of that inspite of and inconveniences, we attend to our regular devotion, for sure, He will rise you above of the spheres where karma showers it force, and you will be blessed with the strength to endure anything. Such is His wadeeayee. As there is an inspirational saying: Je Raaj Kraye Ta Teri Upma Je Bheekh Mangaye Ta Kya Ghat Jai Which means, o my Lord, even if you give me riches of a kingdom, then that is all your greatness, and if you make me go begging, then too nothing diminshes in me (because I am already nothing). He is our anchor at all times in this mayavee painful creation.

Brother sevak cool down, for @Samarbir Singh jee is just asking & trying to get answers of his queries, for maybe some gursikhs may give him some suggestions, some information of how to get darshan of Guru Jee, remeber not all of us are at a same consciouss level . Let people ask sincere questions, there is no harm in it, as long there is no malice in their intentions.

Samarbir Jee, cheating is inmoral just as any other inmoral karam. Found a very inspiring message which does somehow relate to your question, and would like to share it with you, though it covers a bigger view of what morality is all about, it is a beautiful question answer session between Karan and Shree Krishna Jee, the avatar of Shree Vishnu Jee. In Mahabharat, Karna asks Lord Krishna - "My mother left me the moment I was born. Is it my fault I was born an illegitimate child? I did not get the education from Dhronacharya because I was considered not a Kshatriya. Parsuraam taught me but then gave me the curse to forget everything when he came to know I was Son of Kunthi belong to Kshatriya. A cow was accidentally hit by my arrow & its owner cursed me for no fault of mine. I was disgraced in Draupadi's Swayamvar. Even Kunthi finally told me the truth only to save her other sons. Whatever I received was through Duryodhana's charity. So how am I wrong in taking his side ???" **Lord Krishna replies, "Karna, I was born in a jail. Death was waiting for me even before my birth. The night I was born I was separated from my birth parents. From childhood, you grew up hearing the noise of swords, chariots, horses, bow, and arrows. I got only cow herd's shed, dung, and multiple attempts on my life even before I could walk! No Army, No Education. I could hear people saying I am the reason for all their problems. When all of you were being appreciated for your valour by your teachers I had not even received any education. I joined Gurukula of Rishi Sandipani only at the age of 16! You are married to a girl of your choice. I didn't get the girl I loved & rather ended up marrying those who wanted me or the ones I rescued from demons. I had to move my whole community from the banks of Yamuna to far off Sea shore to save them from Jarasandh. I was called a coward for running away!! If Duryodhana wins the war you will get a lot of credit. What do I get if Dharmaraja wins the war? Only the blame for the war and all related problems... Remember one thing, Karna. Everybody has Challenges in life to face. LIFE IS NOT FAIR & EASY ON ANYBODY!!! But what is Right (Dharma) is known to your Mind (conscience). No matter how much unfairness we got, how many times we were Disgraced, how many times we Fall, what is important is how you REACTED at that time. Life's unfairness does not give you license to walk the wrong path... * Always remember, Life may be tough at few points, but DESTINY is not created by the SHOES we wear but by the STEPS we take...

Brother as usual, we fail to recognize His blessings, for from Him, we receive nothing but blessings, that also countless. It is we who have closed our eyes and our petty hands, thus we say Guru Jee bless me with this or that ..... when the truth is whatever He had to give us, He has already given us, it is just a matter of realizing them, more than enough of them For example, first of all we are blessed with a human form in this life, which is the highest of blessings which one can receive, for it is an open door for more blessings to be received, and in this human life, we can get out from maya by holding His strong arm. Then, He has given us 24 hours in a day, where we can purify ourselves by reciting His holy Name within our minds with no such boundaries of space and time. Safal is the gharee/moment, and safal is the place, when we remember Him. Then, he has given us buddhi, to lead a truthfil life; He has given us a soul, so that we can love Him wholeheartedly.... Brother just think, what else do we need when He has already given us so much, for our spiritual realization/developement in order to atain union with Him? Being thankful to him at each step in life, is how we can realize how much blessed we are already.

Bro, The Guru never fails for He is complete Truth, it is we the moorakhs and weak, who fail again and again shamelessly.

As I said, I refuse to play your absurd game from now on, as you are continuing with your closed and confused mindset, so whatever and however I may try to reason with you, it is useless. I leave you to your own destiny/karam, don't want to waste time on paranoid theories which are nothing, but total aberrations, like for example to say: houses, sun, moon, demons, are god....

Samarbir Jee, We must bear in mind that He whom we love, adore and want to meet, is an embodiment of absolute Truth and moral values, so if we want to reach and see Him, we have to be as pure and truthful right from where we are just as He is, otherwise we shall not be able to merge in Him. As humans we do commit mistakes, but if don't learn from them and keep repeating, how can we expect to get His forgiveness, isn't it? Spirituality needs to be constructed on a solid base of being and living in truthfulness , otherwise we are sure to fall and collapse.

We are Nothing, yet we are the drop in the ocean, made from the same stuff as the ocean. * You are mixing up things because of lack of clarity, and you keep on hopping whenever some of your wordings are placed before you as inconsistent, and you then do tend to go in a different direction with other arguments, instead of first clearing the first errors. In this way, you can never ever reach any shore, and I refuse to play or enter into such a absurd game, where I humbly try to come near as much as possible to Gurbani in a constructive manner. Firstly you say we are god, as also the demon and the angels are god, and all the insentient materialistic things also are god, just as houses, moon, sun, things are god, and are equal to god, then you say we are a drop in the ocean, then you jump to bring the term love into scene ..... just too much Can you see how many contradictions are there in your statements ? You are mixing and equating material and insentient things, with an Entity which is the most subtle and only spiritual. So that is an absolute aberration from your side. There is no you or me, only One. It must be experienced and is beyond worldly logic. We live in Nirboah and Nirvair, for its All Him. Is that ego? *Yes it is ego, because it is a wrong statement, and because you are equaiting Him, the One who is the highest consciousness to the gross and insentient things, you are equating Him to the demon, to the lifeless moon and sun, houses and so on .... Nowhere Gurbani says such nonsense, thus it is a twisting to justify your ego only, in which you have locked up tightly yourself and you refuse to see what the reality is about true spirituality as per Gurbani. That is your problem. I have met so many people, of different cultures, nationalities, believers, atheists, but none say such aberrations of equating Him to the gross and insentient things/objects, or even equate Him to negative and lower or higher energies, for He above all that paraphernalia and variety which is His creation, while He is the sole Creator. The demon is a demon due to ignorance of its true nature and not practicing Truth. *Wrong, the demon is a demon in nature due to its past karmas/sanskaras. And your comments about the demon not practicing the truth, or be it anybody, it is not a matter of ignorance , it is only a matter of grace from Him as seen clearly in he following verse of Sree Guru Amar Das Maharaj : ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੩॥ Har Har Naam Dhhiaaeeai Jis No Kirapaa Karae Rajaae ||3|| By His Will He grants His Grace; those who are so blessed, meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. Even Sajjan Thug the serial killer became Guru Nanaks student, a bhagat, with the knowledge and application of Truth (gurbani). *So if Sajjan Thug became a student of Nanak, it means first of all he was not god, otherwise he would not be an evil person, and if he came to Guru Nanak´s shelter; it was more likely that he was pulled by Guru Nanak Himself, for He is omnipotent and omniscient, thus if He wants to pull someone out, then not even Dharam Rai can stop that jeev atma, in going towards PARAMATMA Waheguru Akal Purukh. Please do not ever say Gurbani says all that baseless statements you make as seen up to the date, do support your conclusions, interpretations, theories, with Gurbani in the future, otherwise they have no value, because in these matters, you talk from your ego. it is a pity, for you have love and devotion for Him as seen many a times, but unfortunately when describing Him and His creation, you are messed up and very much confused with contradictions as seen in your posts. Would just like to conclude with some beautiful verses of Guru Jee, where He tells us what is Truth all about, and what is practicing that Truth: ਨਾਨਕ ਆਏ ਸੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਹਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੪॥੫॥੩੮॥ Naanak Aaeae Sae Paravaan Hehi Jin Guramathee Har Dhhiaae ||4||5||38|| O Nanak, blessed is the coming of those who follow the Guru's Teachings and meditate on the Lord. ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਰਾਸਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥ Har Bhagathaa Har Dhhan Raas Hai Gur Pooshh Karehi Vaapaar || The devotees of the Lord have the Wealth and Capital of the Lord; with Guru's Advice, they carry on their trade. ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥ Har Naam Salaahan Sadhaa Sadhaa Vakhar Har Naam Adhhaar || They praise the Name of the Lord forever and ever. The Name of the Lord is their Merchandise and Support. ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਅਤੁਟੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ Gur Poorai Har Naam Dhrirraaeiaa Har Bhagathaa Athutt Bhanddaar ||1|| The Perfect Guru has implanted the Name of the Lord into the Lord's devotees; it is an Inexhaustible Treasure. ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਰਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Karam Milai Thaa Paaeeai Vin Karamai Paaeiaa N Jaae || Those who receive His Grace find Him. Without His Grace, He cannot be found. At other place He goes a step further and says something which puts down your theory where you not only equate all living beings to Him, but also the gross or subtle and insentient creations: ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਤਰਸਦੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਇ ॥ Lakh Chouraaseeh Tharasadhae Jis Maelae So Milai Har Aae || The 8.4 million species of beings all yearn for the Lord. Those whom He unites, come to be united with the Lord. * From this we understand clearly that all the jeevas in the 8.4 million are lost in His creation, and then, only those whom He showers with His grace, find Him and become one with Him, thus until then, nobody is god. Nowhere Guru Jee says that the moon, the sun or houses or alike merge in Him, for they are made out of the 5 perishable tattwas. Sat Sree Akal. P.S : Can you see how Gurbani differs totally with your misundertandings or own made theories?

Sikhilove Jee, nobody is denying that He is the powerhouse of everything, be it in the islam, in the hinduism, in christianism, in buddhism, and in sikhism of course with more and explict emphasis. Please clear your position which denotes more confussion/contradictions than anything, For at one place you say : we are Nothing, at other place you say : I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing, and at some other place you wrote: He is Sun, moon, houses, demon, angel, dukh sukh..... So logically, if we take your words above as seen in the upper line, according to your words, He is equal to a sinner, to nothing, to the lowest, to an idiot ... and so on, because you say we are Him.... When the truth is He has none of all that negative descriptions/attributes as seen above in your different statements.. Can you see the amount of contradictions you have incurred into? No humans say that He is not the ultimate Truth, it is only that some humans say they are equal to god and thus are god, and not only that, but go the extent of equating insentient and unconsciouss things to the Highest Soul consciousness, which is just an total aberration . In case you have not gone through the Shabad above, where Guru Jee describes our true limited nature with the most Highest and Absolute Truth, here it goes again, and hope you take good note of it: soriT mhlw 5(613-10) sorath mehlaa 5 Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl hm mYly qum aUjl krqy hm inrgun qU dwqw ] ham mailay tum oojal kartay ham nirgun too daataa. We are filthy, and You are immaculate, O Creator Lord; we are worthless, and You are the Great Giver. hm mUrK qum cqur isAwxy qU srb klw kw igAwqw ]1] ham moorakh tum chatur si-aanay too sarab kalaa kaa gi-aataa. ||1|| We are fools, and You are wise and all-knowing. You are the knower of all things. ||1|| mwDo hm AYsy qU AYsw ] maaDho ham aisay too aisaa. O Lord, this is what we are, and this is what You are. hm pwpI qum pwp KMfn nIko Twkur dysw ] rhwau ] ham paapee tum paap khandan neeko thaakur daysaa. rahaa-o. We are sinners, and You are the Destroyer of sins. Your abode is so beautiful, O Lord and Master. ||Pause|| qum sB swjy swij invwjy jIau ipMfu dy pRwnw ] tum sabh saajay saaj nivaajay jee-o pind day paraanaa. You fashion all, and having fashioned them, You bless them. You bestow upon them soul, body and the breath of life. inrgunIAwry gunu nhI koeI qum dwnu dyhu imhrvwnw ]2] nirgunee-aaray gun nahee ko-ee tum daan dayh miharvaanaa. ||2|| We are worthless - we have no virtue at all; please, bless us with Your gift, O Merciful Lordand Master. ||2|| qum krhu Blw hm Blo n jwnh qum sdw sdw dieAwlw ] tum karahu bhalaa ham bhalo na jaanah tum sadaa sadaa da-i-aalaa. You do good for us, but we do not see it as good; You are kind and compassionate, forever and ever. qum suKdweI purK ibDwqy qum rwKhu Apuny bwlw ]3] tum sukh-daa-ee purakh biDhaatay tum raakho apunay baalaa. ||3|| You are the Giver of peace, the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny; please, save us, Your children! ||3|| qum inDwn Atl suilqwn jIA jMq siB jwcY ] tum niDhaan atal sulitaan jee-a jant sabh jaachai. You are the treasure, eternal Lord King; all beings and creatures beg of You. khu nwnk hm iehY hvwlw rwKu sMqn kY pwCY ]4]6]17] kaho naanak ham ihai havaalaa raakh santan kai paachhai. ||4||6||17|| Says Nanak, such is our condition; please, Lord, keep us on the Path of the Saints. ||4||6||17|| *As seen above, this is the true wadeeayee of my Sachay Paatshah Waheguru Akal Purukh in the paviter words of Guru Jee, where only He is important, the rest of us are all paapee and moorakhs. Anything else which does not match this idea of us and Him per Bani, is an attitude problem, of strong ahankar, of agyanta, thus not to be taken into account by anyone, no matter even if repeated many times, for it is totally against Sikhee.

How are we not Him, when everything, everyone everywhere is him? *The Shabad provided by you above says, He is in all, but that does not make Him that "thing". We should not mix the Creator Lord waheguru Akal Purukh with the creation whether gross or subtle, which is made out of the 5 tattwas, and thus that creation is perishable in time and space, while in His real Shabad essence, He is beyond all that paraphernalia, so naturally He definetely is not the perishable creation. He is subtler than the subtlest, He is spirit, He is a highest level of consciousness and an endless fountain of higher qualities such as "sach" "chit" "anand". Now even for a second, if we take your theory that He is the sun, moon, houses, demons, angels, dukh, sukh, we and all what you can imagine, well then that statement falls down by its own weight, because, He can not be destroyed and have an end. All of His creation, except the souls, which are his essence, are subject to Parlay and Mahaparlay. One day so to say, all that you see (creation), will cease to exist, then only He, in his Shabad form will exist. So then Sikhilove Jee, if everything was Him, why is it subject to Parlay and dissapear like smoke into the air? Perhaps, because all "that" is not Him definetely. Your thinking that He is all and everything, is a contradiction, isnt it? He permeates in everything like a perfume is in a flower, but the perfume(subtle /spirit) is not the flower(gross/creation), isn´t it? He is like the thread(spirit) in a necklace holding/sustaining all the pearls(creation). If the thread is removed, all the pearls get dispersed and lost. We are Him, but are in maya, the illusion that we are not. * When you say we are Him, in which way are we Him? For He is spirit, not the body, and we have a body and mind also, which are perishable and not our true reality. We are subject to lives an deaths, while He is "ajoonee"(birthless thus deathless). So naturally, He is not us, as long as we considere ourselves the body, for that is vaham, that is agyanta, that is brahm, that is an illusion ... I’ve read gurbani many times. * To an extent something is better than nothing, but reading Gurbani many times, does not give someone the correct understanding. People recite the whole of gurbani many a times as a regualar practice, but then, even a parrot can recite Gurbani, and this does not make them understand it in a right perspective, for one thing is to read or recite, other thing is to do or put into practice"what one reads". Reading a prescrition many a times though, will not cure one´s maladies(agyanta), until one takes the medicine(Nam as per Bani), of which the prescription is telling us about and the way to take it. I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing. *This your statement is totally agreeable, and the final truth about all the reality of us and Him, thus no more need for any arguments or discussions. But I love Him. (Chapeau, a very noble sentiment of love and purity, keep it up always) *You love Him, for you are what you are(atma), and He is He Himself(Waheguru Akal Purukh/Paramatma) .

But then, even each one has been sent by Waheguru. And let us stick to the initial points and not get diverted to other things, for firstly some names were given who came as other individuals, then the topic was shifted to god's nature, then to brahmhgyanis, then to Waheguru's will .... god knows what will come next, but then this type of reactions is not a fair move. Clear out the initial comments of the present thread then move forward to other things if you want in another thread, otherwise off topic answers can be given as seen, and the intentions of the present thread can easily go derailed.

What you have stated above is totally correct and I agree 100 %. But, the title of the thread is of the reincarnation of past notable individuals, which is not the case of Brahmgyanis or Guru Sahiban, for they are the manifestation of Waheguru Akal Purukh at our level. People take Brahgyani as a mahapurukh, or someone who has attained spiritual enlightment, but Fifth patsahee in His pure Bani says that Brahmgyani is Himself the Lord. So all the names mentioned in the posts above of those individuals are for sure not Bramgyani, which again is not the case, for different concepts and things are being mixed here. One side is, Barhmgyani, a Gurmukh, Guru Sahiban ....which are He Himself , and through them can we only reach Him. On the other side we have notable individuals, incarnations, trinities, etc etc etc ... which are absolutely not Him. So please let us not mix up things. Our attention should only be on Guru Jee and Waheguru Akal Purukh, for as the Bani says: MAT KOEE BOOLAY SANSAAR, BIN SATGUR KOEE NA UTRAAS PAAR. Many notable individuals have come and gone, but as said above, going towards Him and merging and becoming one with Him, is not like going to a foreign land for a cettain time and then returning back. The Ocean comes to the the shore whenever it wants so, by first becoming a wave, and as such, each time it comes ashore, it is a bit different or better said not the same as any previous wave, for once the wave has returned into the Ocean, it has become the Ocean, so naturally, the Ocean has to become a new and a different wave, when it wants to come to the shore again, for the purpose of taking those drops of water which are ready to merge into the Ocean, by first enveloping them into itself (the wave), then only the drops and the wave merge and become one with the Ocean.

Sikhilove Jee, can you please provide where in the Bani does it say, that we are one? Please do not mould the Bani to your thought process, rather try to understand well the Bani, then only make conclusions, for whatever else you say is acceptbale in your posts, but when you come to describe Him, you give your own thoughts, whcih do not match Sikhee. Maybe you have been impressed by some school philosophy in your life, but in no way does it match when you say all is god, or all of us are god , and so on .... If it was so as you say, Guru Jee would have never written the following Shabad, where He perfectly describes our present condition, and His true nature, which is the only Truth to be accepted and followed, anything else is "manmat": soriT mhlw 5(613-10) sorath mehlaa 5 Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl hm mYly qum aUjl krqy hm inrgun qU dwqw ] ham mailay tum oojal kartay ham nirgun too daataa. We are filthy, and You are immaculate, O Creator Lord; we are worthless, and You are the Great Giver. hm mUrK qum cqur isAwxy qU srb klw kw igAwqw ]1] ham moorakh tum chatur si-aanay too sarab kalaa kaa gi-aataa. ||1|| We are fools, and You are wise and all-knowing. You are the knower of all things. ||1|| mwDo hm AYsy qU AYsw ] maaDho ham aisay too aisaa. O Lord, this is what we are, and this is what You are. hm pwpI qum pwp KMfn nIko Twkur dysw ] rhwau ] ham paapee tum paap khandan neeko thaakur daysaa. rahaa-o. We are sinners, and You are the Destroyer of sins. Your abode is so beautiful, O Lord and Master. ||Pause|| qum sB swjy swij invwjy jIau ipMfu dy pRwnw ] tum sabh saajay saaj nivaajay jee-o pind day paraanaa. You fashion all, and having fashioned them, You bless them. You bestow upon them soul, body and the breath of life. inrgunIAwry gunu nhI koeI qum dwnu dyhu imhrvwnw ]2] nirgunee-aaray gun nahee ko-ee tum daan dayh miharvaanaa. ||2|| We are worthless - we have no virtue at all; please, bless us with Your gift, O Merciful Lordand Master. ||2|| qum krhu Blw hm Blo n jwnh qum sdw sdw dieAwlw ] tum karahu bhalaa ham bhalo na jaanah tum sadaa sadaa da-i-aalaa. You do good for us, but we do not see it as good; You are kind and compassionate, forever and ever. qum suKdweI purK ibDwqy qum rwKhu Apuny bwlw ]3] tum sukh-daa-ee purakh biDhaatay tum raakho apunay baalaa. ||3|| You are the Giver of peace, the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny; please, save us, Your children! ||3|| qum inDwn Atl suilqwn jIA jMq siB jwcY ] tum niDhaan atal sulitaan jee-a jant sabh jaachai. You are the treasure, eternal Lord King; all beings and creatures beg of You. khu nwnk hm iehY hvwlw rwKu sMqn kY pwCY ]4]6]17] kaho naanak ham ihai havaalaa raakh santan kai paachhai. ||4||6||17|| Says Nanak, such is our condition; please, Lord, keep us on the Path of the Saints. ||4||6||17|| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Can you see the simplicity and beauty and above all true gyan and differences between us or all beings and Him, described perfectly by Guru Jee? Our origin and destiny is Him, but, for the moment we are not Him. We are bound in the endless cycle of births and deaths, He IS NOT. We have karmas and sanskaras of countless lives, HE HAS NOT. We have mind and we are prisoners in Maya, HE IS NOT. We imperfect and limited, HE IS PEREFCT AND INFINITE. If we are a drop, then HE IS THE INFINITE OCEAN. (so unless the drop merges in the Ocean, it remains a drop, thus limited) If we are a ray of Sun, then HE IS THE SUN. (so unless the ray returns in the sun, it is a simple and a limited ray) So you see, in no way we are Him. Please refrain from such comments, read the Bani and understand it fully, if needed be in the company of HIS lovers, in order to elevate your consciousness level where correct and right understanding is reached by His grace. Gurbani in each shabad, in each ang, makes us aware of our current state of separation from Him with all that implies, and gives us the right directions/techniques to apply them practically in our present lives and reunite our surtees with Him, by merging in Him.

If Guru Gobind Singh said what you say, that is fine, because He is th form of Waheguru Akal Purukh at our level, which means He is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. Whatever He says is the Truth. But let us ask ourselves? Even if all the names of those jeevas mentioned by you in your post above is a reality, what is so great about it? We must bear in mind, merging and becoming one with Waheguru is not like going to a holiday resort or to a foreign land for sometime and coming back. For any soul who reaches Waheguru´s level and merges in Him, has for sure lost his petty identity and become one with Him without any distinction. And if these jeevas mentioned by you, they came back, that means they were not one with Him, they were somewhere settling their karmas ... thus they came back once again as human biengs to perfect their bhakti and if it is His mauj, then go and become one with Him, that is it. We too, each one of us, have been born countless times, in countless lives and species, so then? Our only goal to be paid attention to, should be the goal taught in the Gurbani, which is Guru Jee or Satnam, that is it, for only with Him can we ever get out from maya and brahm.. Who comes, who goes, where does that jeeva go .... are all distractions. Life is too short, we should focus on ourselves, whether we are fulfilling our purpose of doing the right job/bhakti to get out of the endless cycle of 84, for once and ever and merge in Him, with His grace, that is it.

Brother Sevak, Sorry to disgree with you, but the fact is that ultimate Truth is beyond the spheres of the mind, and whosoever dares to go beyond these spheres and bravely enter there where that Supreme Truth is in its original state, for sure meets Him. There only love and faith are required, irrespective of being an illiterate or a "gyani," or belonging to a particular caste, creed, gender, color or age, for in His darbar only love and faith are the wings needed, by which the jeevatma can fly and reach there.

Spirituality is also a science. if applied in the laboratory of our body within, we could get proofs. No mere imagination nor talking has ever taken anyone anywhere, it is the practice/action, which makes the results possible. Going to the point above in your thread, it can well be said worldly sciences have no reach to the subtler planes, thus is limited and ends when death takes place, anyhow why question the existence of God, if you can not prove even the existence of the soul. The believers and atheists have existed since ever, each one is a result of his/her past karmas which no one can modify or alterate.

Well said Ragnarok Jee, I do not know, but why are people after such non-sense? Why people are so much interested in such things even? The only conclusion I get is that people are not interested what sikhee really is, though all profess proudly to be sikhs, thus they have failed to understand sikhee, so much pollution, twistings, manmukhta have been added and unfortunately distorted what sikhee is all about and thus so much speculation. First of all, the aim of sikhee is is to reunite us with Him without any distinction, for once and forever. If all these jeevas named above and even those which people have in mind and are not included in this thread .... just let us ask ourselves, if supposing they had done true bhakti of waheguru and become one with Him, how can ever anyone say such things as sen in this thread, so and so incarnations of so and so personalities? Secondly, if they have been wandering since their past births, then too, why give so much importance to them, for not being able to do the correct bhakti as per Gurbani to reunite their souls with Him? Do not get me wrong, I have due respect for all beings, be it whosoever. But, from there to say, this or that personality is the reincarnation of such past jeevas... it does not make much sense. For as said, if they have not been able to become one with Him, what help can they give us? None at all, for they have not done bhakti as per the teachings of Guru Jee. For us as sikhs, only the teachings of Guru Sahiban are to be taken into consideration, and that too to be practiced in our daily lives, for the purpose of our union with Him. Waheguru and Guru Jee are important worth of our devotion, and all those who follow their teachings faithfully, just as mahapurukhs, sant jan, rest all are to be discarded, if their lifestyle and behaviour is not based on Gurbani. Do not get me wrong, I say discarded, not disrespected or abused. That is all.