Harps

As i understood it the british were perfectly happing giving us our own state but our "leaders" (that hearsay says did for there own monetary good) decided to put in out lot with our Hindu brethren. But to be honest given the mess that is Pakistan and given how our "leaders" represent us im sorta glad a Khalistan wasnt created. Im sure somebody will post along some decent links soon.

Cheers for the link Khlasa - that is seriously good !!!!! Nice one lad

Yep as a baptised Sikh u r supposed to be decked out in ur uniform of the 5 K's 24/7 Most baptised Sikhs i know even make sure they take one leg out of ther kashera and put the fresh kashera on one leg before removing the the solied kashera. Most amritdhari sikhs are very conscious of obeying there vows about the panj kakkar.

whoops - forgot to say :$ - nice tie

Siva / Shiva is a moot point it is a word describing god. There are references in the SGGS to Allah etc. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet Waheguru , God , Allah ..... etc - all different names trying to describe the primal force of the universe that cant be summed up in a name. Also not all gods are seperate entities in the hindu faith they are all facets of the same suprmem 1 creator, it is simply language that has given ppl the fallacy there are multiple gods for multiple purposes. imagine a multi faceted diamond and u imagine the hindu concet of good. A supreme being with many different factes - but stilla adioamind in whole

Khalistan will exist when we have a Khalsa worthy of it. Half the "sikh" politicians are as corrupt and obsessed with depravity as ther other religion fellows. Just haiving aKhalistan will not magically make things better or make Sikhs feel more secure. There are only 2 nations in the world that were created om the basis of religion - Israel and Pakistan and niether of those is a shining example of the utopia we would have with our own religious home. Also u gotta look at the practicalties of it. The punjab is the bread absket of India will India relinquish any part of it easily ??? I think not and a state that small would end up being a pawn of either Indian or Pakistani politics cos in all honesty it aint strong enuff to stand on its own. But the main problem with having a Khalistan is who we pick to lead it - Hell we had a killing in a candian gurdwara over the issue of ppl sitting down instead of eatting at tables - here in leicester we had a guy knock another guys pagh off in the main diwan hall when they comittee elections came round. at themo Sikhs aint capable of leading themselves the ones who want power shouldnt be allowed it cos they are slef serving tossers. When ther is a true Khalsa ppl then there will be a Khalistan

Like it or not being Sikh and proud of it is "cool" and while said coolness remains ppl will be getting khanday shaved into the back of there heads and other such besharami as has already been said its all about education As i understand it non of the Gurus designed our present days "khanda" embelem i think it was used by bhandha bahadhur originally might be wrong but tahst what ive read.

Shaheedi immortality is a good album with a good message.

Cos keeping vows and promises is often easier said than done. Its easy to say "I will not cut my hair" with out realising the consequences of ur actions i.e. u may not be as popular with the ladies as ur shaven contemporaies - some ppl could handle that and some cant. and as with all such vows when one part is broken the stigma is gone and the others get broken to. Keeping ur Amrit is very hard to do and shouldnt be taken lightly. But nowadays there is to much emphasis on looking the part rather than being the part

I would say depends on what sort of relaitionship u have. Strictly speaking my head agrees with what kaur @ gurus feet saiid and say basically no. But i appreciate we live in the real world. If u can have a friendship witha girl without any physical intimacy then and decide to proceed from there towards marriage then i would say all seems square - but lets face it when ur going out with a girl by in large u certainly have some lustfull thoughts about her and u may act on them - that dont mean full intercourse but even kissing is physical intimacy that is giving up to lust. No easy answers on this one but in the society we live in its getting harder and harder to remain strictly true to what we have been taught - i dont think that means we should "eveolve" Sikhi to an extent where relaitionships are condoned but again i cant see how it can be stopped. If u get into a relaitionship looking for companionship and marriage then iI personally would say all well and good - if ur getting into a relaitionship cos she looks a bit fine and u wouldnt mind "a piece of that2 then uve already become a slave to ur lust and ur "doing wrong"

Sikhs are by in large Punjabis and Punjabis by in large are khullay dhill gregarious ppl who love showing off - how many of us have fought over who pays the bill at a restaurant ???? and i dont mean ppl shirking i mean ppl insisting they pay for others - I know ive done it and the majority of our mates have we love being the ones buying the rounds and showing ppl how open friendly we are and on a certain level its all about posing. where we cant publicly flaunt how much we spending then we try and cut our losses and do the old hunting for change whilst approaching the golak routine. Yes we should give generously to the gurdwara but that means more than publicly donatong a grand to the building fund - there is nothing better than serving of urself. Doing seva with ur time rather than ur money and then we learn the true meanings of seva and the humilty gained by serving our fellow man. Seva is all about giving of urself and it dont always mean money.

Sikhi is much miuch more tha labels and we should quit having a cow about labels and other divisory shenanigans. You have to live and let live - dont worry about what kind of Sikh somebody else is be the best u can be and be true to urself. We all do stuff that isnt neccasarily done by the law of our Gurus everyday so none of us are really in any position to judge to much unless some one is doing summat very stupid. Whether we like it or not Sikhi is inextricably intwined with Punjabi culture and probably forever will be. Live n let live and teach ppl what u know and let judging be left to god for the most part

Music is food for the soul and everybodies tastes vary. Some ppl like nice bland easy going food others prefer to see exactly how many mirchan they can cram in there dhaal and not regret it the next morning *LOL* Its also reflection of self in the way ppl convey emotions and feelings through music - personally i'll listen to anything from marylin manson to Seal doing simran - all depending on what sort of mood im in. Personally i dont believe it can make me do things or be succeptible to doing things that i wouldnt normally do - its just a form of relase

Well said lad - a great essay. What i find most disheartening is the number of "singhs" willing to get ina ruck with muslims and huindus "fior there faith" and the number of them willing to "die for theer faith" but ther very few who are willing to live for there faith.

prove it lad. and a big *yawn* @ "heavily affected by hunduism" do a bit of reading before condeming ppl - Personally ive yet to be convinced either way on the issue of jhatka and the canbis and almond drink. I personally dont agree witha lot of it but there is considerable evidence to suggest that it maybe "all good"

well said lad

Well said Gurinder

Sikhi is a faith that lives in the real world and understands real world pressures. Yes the guru has commanded you to wear the 5K's at all times and by taking them off strictly speaking you are breaking that vow but but like i said Sikhs live in the real world and to live your lief you may have to compromise on issues. The simple asnswer is after u have commited this "sin" u ask the panj pyaraye for forgivness and they will give u a "punishment" in line wotever u sin u commited as a form of atonement if you will. again this isnt to punish u (maybe using punishment above was the wrong word hmm) but to help u atone - its usually something like a couple of hours community service in the gurdwara or something. Not anything thast gonna break ur back just ur personal way of atoning. The main thing that has to be remebered is that Sikhi isnt about mindlessness and empty rituals and practices - yes a kirpan is there to defend urself in times of danger but learning a martial art will protect u just as well as ur kirpan on an aeroplane. Just as IMHO there is no point carrying a Kirpan if u dont keep it sharm - it isnt there as a badge its there for a purpose.

well said N3o lad

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind - by in large bullying on religous grounds can be succesfully combated by using education and teaching kids about other cultures and customs - thast the long term goal tho. Short term you have to use the systems in place and prey they work tho sometimes they do fail there is no obvious answer cos bullying has been around as long as humans have been around ppl will always gets picked on and sometimes yu cant fight back its up to our schools and institutions to irradicate and deal with bullying across theboard not just for particular circumstances - Tho at the mo the system seems to fail a few times to may for my liking Heres a poem that always brings a ter to my eye about a young sikh lad in the UK who took his life after being bullied - it tugs at ur heart and forces u to empathise with the pain the poor kid must have been going through. Bullying is a crime against those least able to defend themselves and has to be eliminated completely on all grounds in all circumstances The bits in bold are the ones that really get me and make this poem and the boys plight really hit home. RIP Vijay singh

I to disagree with a lot of the "Yogi"s" teachings and stuff but i dont know enuff to villify him - lets just say i have read a lot and im convinced he isnt a saint tho im not yet convinced hes a devil. As for names i personally dont think it should be an issue - Sikhi is more important than our culture and by in large our names are cultural rather than religious. Most oarenst dont think "wow that name has so much meaning we will choose thaat" they think "that sounds nice we will choose that" I beleive our names are a gift from our parents and should be respected as such. Tho i can understand ppl changingthere names by going through the practice of picking a random verse from the SGGS and choosing a name beinging with teh first letter that is read.

Hi let me first of all state that i am not yet fully convinced of all the www.shastarvidiya.org and www.sarbloh.info sites have to say tho i do beleive they do raise some very valid points about Sikhi with the shastarvidiya site my main beef is with the language rather than the message. Im a commited "liberal" and prefer to make up my own mind about stuff rather than have it disctated to me - ok theres all by agendas listed and ,ade clear let me reply to ur post Sukhbir. Its a well written and convincing post tho i do have several reservations about some of the stuff u have said. The first thing i have a problem with is That doesnt come anywhere near being the biggest threat IMHO - as a British Asian youth i know the biggest threat to which we have almost lost the battle to is ignorance, Speaking as a 24 year old I feel my parents generation sold my generation down the river in terms of educating the youth about there religion and placing a heavier emphasis on being punjabi than they did on being Sikh. Im one of the lucky few whose parents are amritdhari and whose parents made a conscience decidion to teach me about the faith i was born into. However how many of my frinds and comtemporys can say the same ?? Being Sikh is a lot more than wearing a badge taking amrit and patting urself on the back about how good u r - thasts the best case scenario it seems sometimes. The worst case scenario is the importance of being a Sikh cos ur a Jatt u can drink like an irishman and ur better than those "extermist hundus" and "fanatic muslims" The meaning of Sikhi is being wattered down to nothing more than empty symbols and rudebwoys kicking off about "them converting our women" Sikhi is in much greater threat from our own swwiming love affair with ignorance than it is to any vague nebulous external force "safronising us" We must first fight our own ignorance before we can dream about fightuing any other opressive force on the panth. Hinduism aint out to get and sublimate Sikhi - yes there are a few fringe loonies who get a lot of media coverage cos of the hatred they preach but the internal threat is much greater than the external. Theres no point being "sikh" or being "Khalsa" if u dont know the why and wherefor - Sikhi is much more than a badge of allegiance. It is one of the most universal faiths on the planet but we the custodians of the knowledge seem hell bent on flushing it all away with the complete lack of knowledge suffered by Sikhs in general in this day and age. U may think reffrences to "Hindu mythology" further the cause of those turning sikhi into a hindu sect but i disagree - U cannot reject those holy books and there teachiongs that our own gurus studied and thought worthy of study - the lessons those stories provide are in the most part just as valid today as they were then. They aint there as stories to entertain u - they are there to give a message or convey the truth of something. They are worthy of study simply to increase our own knowledge about spirituality. -Sikhs dont stop learning. Also rejecting Khalistani terrorism and calling those who refer to it as stooges is very small minded - Just becasue a guy says hes a Singh says his prayers and thinks he is doing the right thing doesnt make him right. Just because someone says they are Sikh it does not stop them being terrorists - Sikhs can do wrong. Fanatacism and Bigotry are not exclusive to other faiths and that somehow Sikhs are immune to that. I do not deny that there have been cover ups and falsification and victimisation of Sikhs and I do not deny that they have often been villified unjustly however to say that our hands have always been clean is an out and out lie. Sikhs are just as capable of religous and social intolerance as any other fringe loonies - hell there are still murders in India by "sikhs" on the basis of caste !!!! You whole post reeks of bias the same way the shastarvidiya site sometimes reeks of bias. The world isnt black and white lad u gotta see the grey to get the whole picture. Im sorry if anything I said upsets u and i mostly agree with what u have said except the bits ive made an issue of, but i strongly feel that the biggest threat to Sikhi is our own ignorance and we should be engaging ourselves in educating ourselves rather than pointing fingers. again sorry for the por structure i was just typing stuff as i thought it and i hope i aint caused u any offence lad.

Be a good husband and a loving father - anything else is a bonus