shaheediyan

Thank you veer Fateh Singh Ji. The shabd you have kindly posted is a perfect example of the Indian Classical path that the majority of Raagis are going down today, when compared the dhrupad version of Bhai Avtaar Singh Ji, we can clearly see the huge difference in presentation. One of the biggest tell tale signs of the modern Indian Classical influence on Raagis is the singing of the sur, something which plays no part in shabd kirtan. It completely detracts the listener from the shabd as Sa, Re, Ga is not in the text of the shabd. Sur are and should be sung in practice when one is learning the raag or composing and practicing the music to the shabd. Singing of the sur, is simply a step the raagi takes to prove to the listeners that he has command of the raag. This means nothing to the majority of the uneducated in raag audience. The ones who know raag, will have worked it out in the first minute. In any case, this is why singing title is such a big help, it tells the audience that the hukum is being adhered to, informs the audience of the raag (emotion related to the shabd), the poetic style and the author, all of which may be useful to the sangat. Singing of sur (in complex taanas and alaaps) is an Indian Classical innovation, and one which is appreciated by the raag educated audiences of Indian Classical Masters.

Thank you veer Guv ji.

The second link above doesn't seem to be working so here is another: http://www.keertan.org/keertan/RARE%20LIVE...%20Singh%20Jee% Beautiful and rare live recording of kirtan/parchaar in/of Dhrupad, by the talented Bhai Dharam Singh Ji Zakhmi. Vaheguru

Here are some shabads sung in Dhrupad. http://www.gurmatsangeetproject.com/Record...nand%20bhed.MP3 By the late Bhai Avtar Singh Ji. Bhai Sahib had a huge knowldge of puratan reets and gurmat sangeet, but unfortunately for the sangat, used to on more than a few occasions, get so absorbed in the shabd and dhrupad that their words used to become a little blurred! The second shabad (which follows the 1st after a small talk) is clearer and a better example to listen to. Enjoy.

Dhrupad in it's devotional form was distignuished from the entertainment form by being termed "Haveli Dhrupad" i.e. sung in the house of God, where as classical/entertainment based Dhrupad was known as "Darbaari", sung in the Royal courts. This is equivalent to the emergence of the term Gurmat Sangeet today being used to differentiate from 90% or more of kirtan which is sung for the sangats pleasure today, as opposed to the Guru's pleasure as in old days. Here is a rare example of Haveli Dhrupad (puratan): http://rajacademy.org/ramgen/aim/vocal/hav....ra?usehostname A perfect example of this is the story of Tansen, the most revered Mughal darbaar singer and his Gurdev, the great Swami Haridas. The story (one of many versions, this one taken from Sri Chinmoy): (The Emperor Akbar's palace. A large audience has assembled before Akbar. His court musician, Tansen, is singing soul-stirring songs while accompanying himself on the tampura.) 172 (Tansen sings.) 173 Kalpana go kapana 174 Tumi amar bandana 175 Dure tomai rakhbona 176 Kalpana go kalpana 177 Mithya mohe kandbona 178 Kurup prane dakbona 179 Khudra jaye hasbona 180 Kalpana go kalpana 181 Mrittyu dake jagbona 182 Atma ami marbona 183 Bhul pathe ar chalbona 184 Kalpana go kalpana 185 [imagination, O Imagination! 186 You are my life's adoration. 187 You I shall not keep afar. 188 Imagination, O Imagination! 189 In false, binding lies I shall not cry; 190 I shall not welcome the life 191 Of impurity's ugliness. 192 With paltry victory 193 I shall not smile and rejoice. 194 Imagination, O Imagination! 195 To death's call I shall not respond. 196 The soul am I; no death have I. 197 No more, never, shall I walk 198 Along the wrong path. 199 Imagination, O Imagination!] 200 AKBAR: Tansen, you have such a haunting voice. I have never heard anybody sing like you. Your music carries me into the highest world, and there I enjoy such happiness, such delight. Tansen, I shall give you anything you want. You can have anything from me for the asking. 201 TANSEN: O Emperor, you have already given me name and fame by allowing me to sing for you. What more do I need? 202 AKBAR: Tansen, although you get everything from me, if you have any special desire, ask me and I shall grant it. Anything that you want from me today I shall immediately give you. 203 TANSEN: I have everything I want. But I have one thing to tell you. You think that I am the best musician. But there is someone who is far better than I. He is the one who taught me how to sing. I am no match for him. 204 MINISTER: O Akbar, O Emperor, your Tansen is very clever. He wants to gain more favour from you with his false modesty. Do not believe him. He thinks that by telling you that there is somebody better than he is, he will gain more favour, more love from you. This Tansen is so clever. He is the greatest musician, but he is also the greatest trickster. Do not believe him, my Lord. 205 AKBAR: No, Tansen, I do not believe you. But if it is true, then you should have told me about him before this. 206 TANSEN: O Emperor, you will never believe me. If I had told you about him, do you think he would have come to you? He does not care for name and fame as I do. He would not want to sing here at your palace. 207 AKBAR: He must come and sing here. I shall force him. I am the Emperor Akbar. Everyone is at my behest. He has to come and sing. Go and bring him here. 208 TANSEN: I can go and bring him here, but I tell you, if you force him to sing for you, he will sing, but he will never sing his real music. He is above name and fame. He shuns society. 209 AKBAR: All right, then I shall go to his house. 210 TANSEN: Well, if you go to his house, perhaps he will sing. But he always shuns great men. If he sees that the Emperor has come, he will not sing at all. If I request him, even if I plead with him, it will be useless, because you are a great man, the greatest man on earth. Perhaps if you come with me as my servant, and if I tell him that my servant would like to hear his music, then he may grant my request. 211 AKBAR: All right, Tansen, I will visit your teacher as your servant. I want to hear your Master's music since you are praising him to the skies. But he had better be good! (Haridas' home. Enter Tansen and Akbar in the guise of Tansen's servant. Haridas is meditating.) 213 TANSEN: Master, here is my servant. He has been begging me for a long time to bring him to hear your music. Today I have brought him. 214 AKBAR (to Haridas): Lord, I will be so grateful to you if you would sing. For some time I have been longing to hear your music. Today my Master, Tansen, has brought me to you. Please sing something for us and play on your tampura. 215 HARIDAS: I am sorry. Today I am not in the mood to play or sing at all. I do not know why. Otherwise I would listen to your request. You look quite nice and smart. I am happy that my Tansen has such a good servant. You look beautiful, you look powerful. I am sure you are pleasing your Master in every way. 216 TANSEN: Master, it is true that this servant is pleasing me in every way. I am most pleased with him and proud of him and, as a reward, I have brought him here. Please sing for him just a little. It will be difficult for me to bring him here again. 217 HARIDAS: Tansen, when I refuse to do something, rest assured that I will never do it. I am not in the mood today. Today my mind is all concentrated on God. You came to me to learn music. I taught you many things, and now when you sing I get tremendous joy. Today I wish you to sing for me. Let your servant and me hear your music. It will transport me into the highest realm. Your music will inspire me to go deep within and commune with my Inner Pilot. Now, Tansen, please sing. 218 (Tansen bows to Haridas and starts singing. Soon he starts singing wrong notes.) 219 HARIDAS: Tansen, what is wrong with you today? Your music is absurd. You are singing like an absolute beginner. You, my greatest student! Is anything wrong in your family? Are you upset? 220 TANSEN: No, no, my family is all right. But today I had the greatest hope that my servant would be able to hear your music. You did not listen to my request, and that has made me very sad. Perhaps it is my sadness that is creating this problem and making it difficult for me to sing well. 221 HARIDAS: No matter how sad you are, Tansen, I cannot imagine how you can sing so badly. 222 TANSEN: Master, it seems to me that I am singing everything correctly. You are saying that I am singing badly, but I feel that I am singing everything as I used to sing before, as you have taught me. 223 HARIDAS: Tansen, you liar! I have not taught you to sing like this. It is all wrong. 224 (Haridas snatches away Tansen's tampura and starts singing the same song most soulfully and hauntingly. The music comes from another world. Akbar is in deep trance. Tansen is listening with deepest inner delight.) 225 (Haridas sings.) 226 Ekti katha ekti sur eki jhankar 227 Nam dhare ke dakchhe jena amai barebar 228 Kothai achi kothai jabo 229 Nai jena thikena 230 Ghumer ghore karchhi shudhu 231 Ami becha kena 232 Kata bhangi katai gari 233 Katai kari asha 234 Hiya khani dekhechhe mor 235 Andhar sarbanasha 236 Alor pakhi alor pakhi 237 Abar eso phire 238 Jyotir dhara bahan kare 239 Namo amar shire 240 Dak ditechho urdhe jete 241 Jabo keman kare 242 Bandhi je mor paran khani 243 Ekti andhar ghare 244 Alor pakhi alor pakhi 245 Alor pakhi alo 246 Prane amar rekhona ar 247 Ektu andhar kalo 248 [One thought, one tune, one resonance — 249 Who calls me ever and anon? 250 I know not where I am, 251 I know not whither I shall go. 252 In dark amnesia, 253 Myself I buy, myself I sell. 254 All I break, again all I build. 255 All I hope to be mine, mine alone. 256 Alas, my heart is eclipsed 257 By dark and wild destruction-night. 258 O Bird of Light, O Bird of Light, 259 With your glowing and flowing flames 260 Do enter into my heart once again. 261 You are calling me to climb up 262 And fly into the blue. 263 But how can I? 264 My heart is in prison 265 In the strangled breath of a tiny room. 266 O Bird of Light, O Bird of Light, 267 O Bird of Light Supreme. 268 In me, I pray, keep not an iota of gloom.] 269 TANSEN (at the end of the music): Master, forgive me. I know I have sung all wrong today. After hearing you I realise how badly I have sung. Forgive me, forgive me. 270 AKBAR (bows): I always thought that my Master was the best singer, but he was sincere enough to say that you sing far better than he does. I did not believe him. But now that I have heard you, I know that undoubtedly you are a far better singer. How sweet your voice is! I am so grateful to you and also I am so grateful to my Master for bringing me to you today. 271 HARIDAS: May God bless you, my son. May God bless your devoted head. You are serving your Master, who is my fondest son. 272 TANSEN: I am also fond of my servant. 273 AKBAR: Lord, I am also proud of my Master, Tansen. 274 (Akbar and Tansen bow and leave.) (Akbar's palace.) 276 AKBAR: Tansen, how is it that you cannot sing so well? Your Master lives in a poor cottage, whereas you have all kinds of advantages and opportunities. Even then you cannot sing as well as he. I appreciate your sincerity in telling me that he sings far better than you do, but I cannot account for this. Why is it? What prevents you from singing as well as he does? 277 TANSEN: O Emperor, I play for you, for human beings; I play for name and fame; I play for wealth. My teacher plays for God, the Lord Supreme. For him, there is only God. God is everything. I want to please human beings who live in the world of human pleasure; he wants to please the Absolute Supreme. When one sings for the world, one gets what he wants: appreciation, admiration, flattery. But when one sings for God, the Absolute, one gets God's boundless Grace, His boundless Blessing and transcendental Delight. God, the infinite Compassion, enters into his music and, at every moment, he sings celestial, transcendental, soul-stirring music — music that awakens the Universal Consciousness, music that feeds the Universal Consciousness, music that manifests the Universal Consciousness in aspiring souls. 278 AKBAR: Tansen, you are a great musician, but your sincerity is greater than your music. Your inner depth is by far the greatest. Your inner wisdom is by far the best. I bow to your music with love. I bow to your sincerity with joy. I bow to your inner wisdom with my heart's gratitude. If someone would be kind enough to post this beautiful picture here I would be greatly indebted. http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/MF50/

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh One of my veers touched on the subject of Dhrupad in a previous post. This subject deserves a thread of it's own, I will try and post some info on it as and when I find time. Dhrupad originates from the word Dhruva, meaning steadfast evening star. This implies that Dhrupad is rendered in a disciplined, simple and steady fashion, unlike the classical, filmi, qwalli, tumri versions of kirtan we have today. Dhrupad is said to have taken early form in the Vedic times, with references to it's early form going back to the Sam-Veda. It developed into a vocal styles called "Chanda and Phrabanda", which forms the basis of Dhrupad. In my words, "true" Dhrupad is a hugely mesmorising, meditative, hypnotic, deeply devotional form of singing in which one completely looses himself. The best introduction I can think of is from the foremost practitioners, the Daager Brothers, Ustaads (Muslim teachers). They have a verifiable parampara dating back to 1753 with their ancestor, Behram Khan, who was a prominent Drupad singer of the Jaipur court. Personally I am not a big fan of theirs as their Gharana style is heavily entertainment based in my opinion (originating from the Rajais courts), but to their credit, they accepted and trained 2 Hindu's who I consider to the foremost practitioners puratan Dhrupad, the Gundecha brothers. The Gundecha brothers focus on bhajan/kirtan - spiritual singing, not entertainment, by which I mean focus on techniques, style, ornamentation etc... but focus on the shabd. The listener of true devotion needs to be just as patient, focused and devoted to listen to and appreciate Dhrupad as the Raagi performing in Dhrupad. It is very difficult to find recordings or videos of the Gundecha brothers on the net, so if anyone comes across any, kindly post them here for all to enjoy. Here are some free plays of their latest albums. I would recommend listening to "Shiv" and Raag Adana. http://www.rhapsody.com/gundechabrothers/sattva Also Sangat Ji, please post any Sikh Kirtan Dhrupad recordings come across.

Dear Niranjana Veer Ji, Kishori Amonkar and other artists who use, have used the vaja, have not used it to bring any beauty to the rendition, but simply used as a replacement for a tanpura, to provide a meter for their sur. The reason you refer to the vaja being used in a child like manner, is because next to Guru Ji's saaj, it is child like, in it's ability, versatility and expression. It would help the responses on this post if a Vaja musical piece could be posted to compare against the basic musical Sarangi piece I have posted a video on. I couldn't find one worth comparing. Discussion on Gurmat Sangeet may be flawed on "some" points, but it is slightly irresponsible to so hugely generalise a whole musical system, especially one that so many people are trying to bring back to it's original state. Khayal, was in fact invented by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji as far as I have found. You can find the first historcal evidence based mention to Khayal in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. If anyone disagrees, then please provide hard evidence, not historical theories from 20th century research by biased Indian Classical historians, who have not given our Guru's any credit for any of their huge contribution to Bharat sangeet. Khayal perfectly favours the rendition of the poetry and content of Dasam bani, as well as that of some of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,but not the large part. On the same point, Dhrupad is not suitable for all of Gurbani i.e. for the 22 Vaars, for kirtan of "folk" titled shabd or for "Dakni" (south Indian) instructed shabd. Dhrupad was around a small while before Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and was made famous by Swami Haridas and Mian Tansen (his famous student). The difference in these 2 geniuses perfectly describes the difference between Gurmat and Classical Sangeet. Dhrupad is actually still used by Raagis today, although not by the large majority as you have correctly pointed out. Bhai Avtar Singh Ji, Bahi Baldeep Singh Ji, Professor Surinder Singh Ji, Bhai Balbir Singh Ji and Harjinder Singh Lallie use Dhrupad. Here is an example: http://www.gurmatsangeet.org/index.php?opt...2&Itemid=37 Choose the 1st shabd "too samrath vadaa". Differences between Classical and Gurmat, you have pointed out quite well, in addition a few more things: Gurmat Sangeet: - Use of Rahao as astai (Chorus) - Non singing of sur - Adhering to title raag - Use alaaps in limit i.e. to introduce the title, sing manglacharn, or disciplined bol alaaps on points of the shabd the singer wants to emphasis further, not long alaaps classical raagis like Bhai Amarjeet Singh (Nanaksar taath - Wolverhampton) use, which take over the whole shabd. Classical based shabds do not adhere to all of the above. I will try and upload a video which perfectly show you the difference. We also need to be careful to distinguish between classical and Hindu Kirtan. Kirtan existed for hundreds of years before Sikhi appeared, but in tehstyle of the classical you see today, it was competely devotional, heavily Dhrupad based. The classical we see today has descended from the Mughal and likewise influenced Bharat Rajais darbaars, where sangeet had chaned from devotional to entertainment based. Pre-sikh Kirtan in it's true form still survives in South Indian temples today... For a most beautiful example of a Gurmat Shabd drowned in pure devotion please listen to this: http://www.ikirtan.com/Bhai_Balbir_Singh_J...ngh%20-%20Aade%

Dear Mekhane'ch Ji, I agree with you. There was a hint of propoganda and the Persians were portrayed as the "baddies". If you read my post, you'll see I did say "as historical as big budget productions can get", I understand big screen presentaions will always be biased and influenced by the producers political thoughts, as official history is any case (depending on who records it). Also, you will see I did not make one comment regarding the Persians, I am aware of their contributions. But we should not glorify each generation of Persia for the contributions of a few. All empires have their highs and lows, depending on the ruler of the time. Saying that I have not looked at Xerxes rule, so cannot comment on his historical portrayal. Also, an empire can be hugely modern, evolving, cultured, scientific and tyrannical at the same time, not saying Xerxes empire was, but just making a point. Tyranny does not always equal uneducated. Saying that the killing of disabled babies at birth by the Spartans and the blood thirsty mindset of the soldiers, does not really do the wests propoganda agenda many favours... To add to my earlier points, one of the area's where the Spartans differed (based on the film), was their attitude towards the injured, all were killed without mercy, which differs from the Bhai Khanaiyas and Guru Gobind Singh Ji's mindset, of treating all as brothers and letting a fallen soldier die with dignity....

Apologies veer ji, "rubbish" was an excessive and rude word to use, thank you for pointing this out. Re your point about new technology, the Vaja is a step back, not a step forward, it does not provide the basic support for the renditionof raag I have mentioned above, whoever being trained by whoever else bares no relation to this fact. It has no advancement of taanti saaj. And apart from the fact it can be learnt to play in a week, does not compare in any other way. I do not hate the vaja or users of the vaja, the most important thing is adherance to nirdareth raag and rahao. I am simply trying to promote our Guru's inventions and gifts, which no technology can replace or improve on. To this day, the tanti saaj used by our Guru's are famous for being the instruments that most closely resemble the human voice, there is a reason for this. The vaja does not resemble the human voice. The vaja at the time it was introduced to Punjab was being used by vagabonds across the streets of Europe (still is on a smaller scale). It never took off in Europe for a reason, why the violin flourished. Don't get so hung up on the Vajas feelings. You are right it has been used in our Guru's darbaars, but the ease of learning it also brought the down fall of the true raagis, as the amatuer and non-adherent kirtani flourished and were availble 10 a penny, reducing the influence and life time commitment needed from the real raagis. The same way that you are getting upset at the critism of the Vaja, something which has formed part of your upbringing and kirtan experience etc... Am I not entitled to share my thoughts and feelings with the way that our Guru gifts were chucked away in an instance, for an inferior instrument? I am not using your history against you, I was simply trying to point out that the Namdhari Guru Baba Partaap Singh Ji recognised the decline of and danger to Guru Ji's kirtan, with the intro of the vaja, and took steps to preserve our Guru's beauty, as people are doing today. I apologise if my post comes across as fanatical, it is not supposed to be, but I am in love with my Guru's gifts, and admitidly biased, but am happy to discuss and compare saaj in a scientific fashion also.

If you are in Wolverhampton Chatanga Ji, you can learn from Harjinder Singh Ji (Gurmat Sangeet academy) on Friday evenings at Nanaksar Taath (off Penn Road). Highly recommended. Veer Fateh Singh Ji, no problems with the Vaja, you are right, it is just a saaj. But for raag, it's actually rubbish. Many reasons why - main reason being : You cannot do a meend on a Vaaja, meend is an intricate part of raag kirtan and Mukh Angs in many raag, which are the main rules which need to be followed. Other than that, it does not sound nice, I ask anyone to produce a video of a Vaja that sounds even 10% as beatiful as the video posted above. Our Guru's were artists, masters, they gave to us the best of everything: Faith Yudh Gyaan Sangeet Gyaan Naam Gyaan Architechture Linguistics Poetry Politics Discipline Community You get the message. Today we go for second best. I am Surprised to here you saying this, as Baba Partaap Singh was not a fan, and banned Vaja from their famous Kirtan Smagams.. The Vaja is not evil in itself, it's what it represents, the politics behind it's introduction, by the British and acceptance by Tat Khalsa, the rush of amatuers and decline of professionals... same as the decline in Yugh Ved and emergence of Gatka... Haven't you ever wondered where all the puratan saaj serving 20 million (?) Sikh population only 100 years have gone? You can count good examples of originals today on a 2 hands. This is an unresearched area, but is slowly being looked at and more and more found. A gift from the British to Singh Sabha/SGPC upon them receiving the Gurdwarai back, a Golden Vaja.. Within a few years, raagi jathaas and tanti saaj.. gone.

Not sure if this was the correct place for this post, apologies if not. I go to the cinema with my wife on very rare occasions, to watch historical films (as historical as a big budget production can get). Today was one of those rare days, we went to watch 300, I had been eager to watch it for a long time. It is a great film, more imaginative rather than fact based, but very inspiring none the less, definately a bir ras classic. Unfortunately there was also a share of non-family scenes (unexpected) which is a shame, as if they were not there, parents could watch it with their children. But the whole story and presentation is truely awesome, some points drawing comparison with the Khalsa, especially the Nihang side. One scene showed the Queen sending the King Leonidis to battle saying "either return with your shield or on your shield" (something like that), implying comeback victorious or dead. This reminded me of when the 40 mukte had deserted Guru Ji. Another great scene was where a spartan single handely kills an armoured (on top of its natural armour) gigantic rhino with his spear, similar to Bhai Bachchitter Singh Ji killing the drunken Elephant. Disabled people not allowed in the fauj (similar to the disabled can't be panj pyare?) Many of the fighting techniques and weapons used were fascinating, especially the use of the spear. Another thing was the desire for meeting a worthy opponent and dying from the hands of a true/greater warrior... embracing, looking for and living for shaheedi.. The psychological games being played.. And of course 300 of Greeces finest fighting a million Persions, reminded of my greatest role model Baba Gurbakhs Singh Ji Shaheeds legendery kurbani. One huge downside for me was the narrator, really annoying, sounded like a BBC childrens jackanory presenter! Be prepared!! May be when some of our Nihang brothers have seen the film they can draw on more parallels. Maybe the fighting techniques and cultural aspects..

Not sure if this was the correct place for this post, apologies if not. I go to the cinema with my wife on very rare occasions, to watch historical films (as historical as a big budget production can get). Today was one of those rare days, we went to watch 300, I had been eager to watch it for a long time. It is a great film, more imaginative rather than fact based, but very inspiring none the less, definately a bir ras classic. Unfortunately there was also a share of non-family scenes (unexpected) which is a shame, as if they were not there, parents could watch it with their children. But the whole story and presentation is truely awesome, some points drawing comparison with the Khalsa, especially the Nihang side. One scene showed the Queen sending the King Leonidis to battle saying "either return with your shield or on your shield" (something like that), implying comeback victorious or dead. This reminded me of when the 40 mukte had deserted Guru Ji. Another great scene was where a spartan single handely kills an armoured (on top of its natural armour) gigantic rhino with his spear, similar to Bhai Bachchitter Singh Ji killing the drunken Elephant. Disabled people not allowed in the fauj (similar to the disabled can't be panj pyare?) Many of the fighting techniques and weapons used were fascinating, especially the use of the spear. And of course 300 of Greeces finest fighting a million Persions, reminded of my greatest role model Baba Gurbakhs Singh Ji Shaheeds legendery kurbani. One huge downside for me was the narrator, really annoying, sounded like a BBC childrens jackanory presenter! Be prepared!! May be when some of our Nihang brothers have seen the film they can draw on more parallels. Maybe the fighting techniques and cultural aspects..

We should stop always associating Gurmat Kirtan with Namdhari only. Although Baba Partaap Singh Ji did a great service, today, very large majority of Namdhari jathaas do kirtan in Indian Classical style rather than Gurmat kirtan, and hardly ever stick to hukmi raag, rather they use other raags, many non-gurbani, which they have been taught in the gharana they have learnt from. Even during Baba Partaap Singh Ji's times, things weren't rosy, despite their efforts, some of their amongst prominent darbaari Raagis were very "mainstream" using vaajai and modern kirtan styles, one of the most famous was Darshan Singh Ji (Sant). Ironically his son Harbans Singh Kola (current darbari raagi) reverted back to Gurmat kirtan and swapped the vaaja for the Dilruba and started doing hukmi raag, although in recent years he has also gone down the route of non-gurmat raag, but he still sticks to the devotional and puratan Dhrupad style. Namdhari can be given complete credit for the preservation of 3 main things: 1 - Preserving the Dilruba (created by during or after Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time, as it is directly descended from the Taus, which was invented by Guru Ji; 2- Preserving the Jori (pre-runner to the tabla - tabla being a new invention, made for the onset of microphones, recording, radio etc.. a tighter controlled sound) the Jori was invented by Guru Arjun Dev Ji (splitting the Punjabi Pakavaj in 2), and was created to accompany the beautiful, sophisticated and intricate kirtan our Guru's gave to us. The main difference between Jori and tabla is it's method of being played (more rustic, natural, accompanying rather than leading, as in many jathaas today), the bass drum was straight, producing a deep, resounding echo that would carry to the thousands of sangat, there being no amplifiers in those days! 3 - Doing kirtan in large numbers, Namdhari still practice this original way of doing kirtan to some extent. This gives more versitility, voices, instruments, atmosphere, sangatee kirtan environment... as well as less use for electonic help (speakers etc) a natural un-amplified kirtan darbaar produces the absolutely perfectbalance of sound between the singer the Jori and the saaj, it is impossible to replicate this through amplification. A puratan non-Namdhari raagi jathaa before SGPC days (where they were replaced by 2-3 cheaply employed amatuers with the great British gift which was gladly accepted by the SGPC - the Vaja). http://www.rajacademy.com/forum/index.php?....0;id=404;image The Sarangi was first introduced back to the Namdhari Darbaar via Surjit Singh Ji Namdhari, who with Baba Jagjit Singh Ji's blessings learnt it from the legendery Pandit Ram Narayan. The Taus was re-introduced mainly by Ranbhir Singh Ji Namdhari, who was given one by Raj Academy (as Bhai Avtar Singh Ji was). Bhai Sahib is now fast becoming famous for his huge skill at such a young age )late twenties). The Tar-Shenai (Esraj with a horn) is a Namdhari invention, and is used by many Namdhari's, but most famously by Bhai Baljeet Singh Ji. The need for this arose when a louder saaj was needed for the now fast increasing Indian Classical style of kirtan becoming popular, which is less restricted (disciplined) than the devotinal Dhrupad stlye, and more entertainment based (sangat based, rather than Guru based). Lesser contribution was raag vidya (which is useless if title raag is not used). But many other non-Namdhari raagis have also preserved this i.e. The late Bhai Avtaar Singh, Dharam singh Zakhmi and Bhai Balbir Singh Ji, Dr Gurnaam Singh to name a few. Just a few points to balance the facts out, it is wrong to always give complete credit to Namdhari Raagis for preserving all aspects of kirtan, non-Namdhari's have done just as much. Today we have 2 main Sikhs in the UK (and world) doing a huge amount of research and giving complete dedication to the preservation of Gurmat Sangeet: Professor Surinder Singh Ji http://www.rajacademy.com and Harjinder Singh Ji Lallie http://www.gurmatsangeet.org/

"Artists rendition"? Far from it, Guru Gobind Singh Ji was an artist, these people were simply amatuer, uneducated, glory seeking business men. Jokes aside, somethings should be treated as sacred. If Guru Ji is going to portrayed (which in my "personal" opinion they shouldn't be) then proper research needs to be done, and agreement of educated Sikh bodies should be sought to ensure that the portrayal is as accurate and responsible as possible. No one in the English speaking world is going to take that cartoon seriously. I pray I never see the day where I have to hear Guru Ji being portrayed with the a wolves accent, this would be the stuff of nightmares, I cannot think of worse scenario!

If Maharaj has addressed the panth in Angrezi, it would would have been the Queens English, not in the accent of the general secretary of the local Gurdwara. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was a master linguist and polyglot. Although amused at first, I felt sad afterwards that the portrayal of a story that has inspired millions to become Lions over the last 300 years, today inspires laughter, down to irresponsibilty. Alongside Bhai Daya Singh Ji calling Guru Ji "Singh" before Maharaj was given amrit, Guru Ji putting patisah into the amrit, amrit being prepared in "?" not sarbloh, and the secret of where the blood on the sword came from finally being revealed by the animation company! I pray that this cartoon does not become standard UK primary school educational issue! Poor little Sikh kids!

To listen to the beautiful kirtan of Sri Raag, click on the below link and click on the shabad links at the bottom of the article. Vaheguru http://www.gurmatsangeet.org/index.php?opt...8&Itemid=36 Siri Raag Sunday, 27 February 2005 The bani in Siri Raag reflects this. The first shabad in Siri Raag takes the reader on a journey, they see a huge and glorious marble laden mandir, the nobleman living within has commissioned for diamonds and jewels to be embedded in the structure, musk, saffron and sandalwood fill the air. The reader is transformed into an emperor, he raises a huge army and sits on a throne issuing commands. But in comprehending this awe inspiring sight, the reader is told not to forget God. Siri Raag "The vast terrain of Indian Ragadari music has nourished and nurtured a teeming web of melodic life of every conceivable level of complexity and aesthetic measure. The very high end of this spectrum is a nest for an aristocracy of Ragas that represents the acme in human melodic thought. To this exclusive commonwealth belongs our Raga-du-jour, Shree, at once recognizable for its forbiddingly haunting and deeply meditative mien. For the musician, it is among the most difficult Ragas to master. For the rasika, it is a fulfilling emotional purchase." Although general hindustani musicians refer to this raag as raag shree, in the gurbani it is referred to as 'siri raag', sometimes as 'raag siri raag', this method of naming is quite unique in comparison with the other 63 major raags. Siri Raag is the first raag in the bani. It belongs to the Poorvi thaat and its sur notation is as follows: S r G m P N S' Its' arohi/avrohi is as follows: S r m P N S':S'N d P (G) r G r S The vadi sur is R and samvadi is P and particular emphasis is made on the r G r S combination. Further important emphasis is made on the r P and P r combinations. The Niyaas of the raag is brought about by the meend that takes place when the P (G)r is played. The use of the r and d would normally make such a raag neo-tragic in mood. However, although the r is vadi, the d isn't, hence it is not very dominant. Whereas the 'teasing' nature of a vadi d would encourage feelings of longing, they don't in siri raag, with P being the samvadi, the singer homes in on this sur briskly therefore removing any such feelings in the listener. In the same way, the m being so close to the P should raise similar feelings, it does not in this raag for the same reasons. It is left to the r to bring this feeling subtly to the listener. The transitional gaps in this raag bring a feeling of almost helplessness, yes there is some longing-ness, but coupled with helplessness resulting generally in awe and amazement. Siri Raag is a very complex raag, it is considered to be one of the most complex raags by kirtanis. It is rarely heard today, to sing siri raag is making a tremendous statement of the ability of a kirtani. It is commonly believed that coupled with the complexity of the raag, the harmonium is responsible for the demise of this raag. One unique characteristic of Siri Raag is that the rishab is ati komal, i.e. it is flatter than a komal rishab. This sound is impossible to produce on a harmonium and only possible on the instruments on which Kirtan was done in the time of the Gurus - the tantee saaj. The use of ati komals or ati tivars has become so rare that kirtanis even when equipped with tantee saaj still find it difficult to produce such a note, they are so used to and conditioned to the kharaj (S) and the komal rishab and the ati komal rishab sounds out of tune. Another reason for the complexity of Siri Raag is the restrictions placed on the structure of notation. For instance, the arohi goes S r m P N S". The transition from r to m is generally quite rare amongst Sangeet, the gap is 4 surs, mastering this transition either vocally or on a stringed instrument requires practice; furthermore, the transition from P to N is also rare. The transition from r P and vice versa is a 5 sur transition - difficult further still! In the avrohi, the m G combination is avoided for fear of converting the raag into Puriya Dhanasari - a raag with an identical notation. To return from m or P, r is the sur to approach, this again is an awkward combination to master. The m P d combination, coupled with the n.Sr combination is identically difficult. Three surs in this adjoining combination is again difficult to play and to sing. Note, Jaitsiri is a similar raag (in terms of surs), however, this is discussed later. In the wrong hands however, Siri Raag could sound just like Puriya Kalyan or Jaitsiri. Siri Raag is considered a 'meend pardhan' raag, i.e. the transitions between two surs (e.g. (G)r) is dragged. There are numerous prevalent meends within Siri Raag, note that this has to be in the mind of the kirtani at all times (along with the various other restrictions placed on this raag!) Hence, it can be seen that Siri Raag does not have a single complexity, but numerous complexities! It is no surprise that it is considered one of the most senior of all raags. Siri Raag is not a raag for amateurs: "In the hands of a master Shree can lead to an ennobling experience. Lesser hands given to playing ducks and drakes ought to be persecuted to the highest extent allowed by the law of the land." Siri Raag has often been described as an emperor raag, an awe inspiring raag. It drives home an appreciation of mans' numerous limits and shortcomings. The feeling is of a peasant invited to meet the king of the land, this is unchartered territory, here we have protocols that are alien to the pheasant, he is a bag of nerves as he approaches his King. How those Sikhs felt having travelled 100s of miles to meet the Guru that they had heard so much of, then to walk in to that magnificent darbar, surely they were also a bag of nerves. How Makhan Shah Labana must have felt when his vessel was saved and he searched for the Guru. These feelings are portrayed magnificently in this raag. How we should feel when visiting the darbar of our Guru, how ever so fitting it is therefore that the Guru chose Siri Raag as the first raag in the bani, this is that first contact with the Guru, during the akhandpaat, it is Siri raag that we heard first after the japji and the rahiras. The bani in Siri Raag reflects this. The first shabad in Siri Raag takes the reader on a journey, they see a huge and glorious marble laden mandir, the nobleman living within has commissioned for diamonds and jewels to be embedded in the structure, musk, saffron and sandalwood fill the air. The reader is transformed into an emperor, he raises a huge army and sits on a throne issuing commands. But in comprehending this awe inspiring sight, the reader is told not to forget God. This first shabad is very characteristic of Siri Raag, it is indeed a tremendous raag reflected so matchingly in the bani. Avtar Singh, Baljit Namdhari, Siri Raag Pubri Ang, Roopak Har Bin Jio Jal Bal Balbir Singh Raagan Vich Sri Raag Hai Raagan Vich Sri Raag Hai Balbir Singh Ji Balbir Singh Ji Hau Jeeva Nam - Siri Raag Bhai Avtar Singh Ji Siri Raag Purabi Ang - Dhamaar Raagan vich siree raag hai Bhai Bakhshish Singh & Crew Guru Nanak Foundation Quincent Bhi Teri Keemat Na Pavai Bhai Balbir Singh Ji Siri Raag Jis pyarea sio neho Jis pyarea sio neho - siri Bhai Dharam Singh Zakhmi Bhai Dharam Singh Zakhmi 72_02 Hau Doondendhee Sajna (Siri Raag) Bibi Ajit Kaur Quincentenary Shabad Recording Mat Dekh Bhula Veesrai Bibi Geeta Kaur Adutti Gurmat Sangeet Samellan Rang Ratta Mera (Sri Raag) Dr Gurnam Singh Ji Dr Gurnam Singh Ji 01 Har Bin Jio Jal Bal Jao (Siri) Principal Baldev Singh Adutti Gurmat Sangeet Samellan Tohi Mohi Mohi Tohi (Sri Raag) Siri - Jhaptaal Bhai Avtar Singh Ji Tohi Mohi Mohi Tohi Antar Kals

A true (blessed) Muslim, Sikh, Hindu... would not be concerned with such matters. When one develops the true pain of seperation from the creator, even concepts such as swarg narag, heavan hell, reincarnation become insignificant, the aim solely to be united with the eternal groom, this aim is revealed and felt when one experiences true Ishq. This is what blessed Sufi's believe. Academic Sufis, same as academic Sikhs, get stuck in the bottle neck of "what happens after death".

Just something I learnt recently, more general fact than anythingelse, people generally think blue and red are opposites, it is apparently orange and blue that opposites, same as white and black (in a non-colour sense). Don't know, seems to bring some balance, as in miri piri...

The first raag organised chapter in Maharaj is Siri Raag. For a beautiful and haunting introduction to the raag and the mood by Bhai Balbir Singh Ji, please click here for: http://rajacademy.org/ramgen/asm/HarBinJio....ra?usehostname Siri is thunderstrike of realisation. The relevant shabads portray a message of unadulterated truth, a sudden awakening of our mind. The raag therefore invokes feelings of a serious and thought provoking nature. Those listening feel a strong urge to heed the advice given and feel empowered, blessed and very grateful. A perfect example is "mere mun eikas sio chit lai" by Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji. This shabad popularly and incorrectly known as "lakh kushian paatshahian" shows Guru ji's approach in communicating with their mind, educating and awakening it to the truth. It educates us on how to prioritise in life and the importance of self realisaion and having love for the timeless one. Some more examples: http://www.keertan.us/files/Classical%20Ke...a%20bina%20.mp3 http://www.gurmatsangeetproject.com/Record...alli%20paya.MP3 http://www.bcsikhyouth.com/gallery/audioal...id=5&dl=107 Indian Classical devotional style example by Pandit D V Paluskar: http://rajacademy.org/ramgen/aim/vocal/PDV....ra?usehostname

Dear veer Kam Ji, Yes, I agree that Baba Partaap Singh Ji Namdhari made a priceless contribution to the preservation of Gurmat Sangeet (In my opinion the biggest), I have spoken a little more re this here: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=9259 Re Seva Panthi, I don't think any concerted effort was made to preserve Gurmat Sangeet, as their specialty was not kirtan but parchaar/education. Baba Shaam Singh Ji Aden-Shaahi was unique, they developed a love for kirtan and they followed their heart, giving 75 years nishkaam service at Darbaar Sahib. From what I have been told neither their Jeevan Sakhi nor Prem Parkaash Granth have much reference to kirtan, probably around a page or two, which mainly talks of some historical references i.e. the inception of the Saranda at Guru Arjun Dev Ji's darbaar. Baba Ji learnt kirtan from a gifted Mussalmaan Baba, I will post more details when I have them. I know their have been a few other individuals as well i.e. Mahant Guja singh Ji etc. Nihangs I don't know much about, Budda Jor is supposed to have some knowledge, but I don't what the heritage is and haven't ever really heard of any of its exponents. Bhai Balbir Singh Ji is Budda Daals claim to fame, but from what I have been told, they recieved their kirtan training elsewhere, they only took amrit at the daal. Raag Vidya survival was not dependant upon these few people groups alone, there were many other individuals who preserved this treasure, I will try and post articles on them in the future. Hopefully will be able to research this further when I finally visit India for the 1st time.

Admin Jeeo, please move thread to the Gurmat sangeet section. Thanks. Interesting. Bhai Sahib, please provide the web link to this info. I will add some comments on this soon. But to start with, one thing that made me laugh: "15. Saptaks - This refers to three divisions of a harmonium" When are these people going to wake up - the BAJA was introduced to Singh Sabhias/Tat Khalsa/SGPC in the early 20th century, it was a con, during this same period, all the beautiful saaj our Guru's and raagis up to this time had been using strangely disappeared (yet to be investigated today), for a such a short time period up to now, there should be thousands of examples of real sikh saaj available, be we have only a handful? Just funny, that a supposedly education article refers to saptaks (1st mentioned around 1000 years ago), and harmonium in the same sentance! Also, the "middle" saptak is called Madh Saptak. There are 5 principle sur (notes) in any raag, but most Raagis like to tell you there are only 2 (the 1st 2): Sur A sort of easy to follow description, denoting the importance of each note in the raag: Vadi King Samvadi Queen Niyas Prince/Princess Anuvadi Good Friend Vivadi Associate (need to be cautious of this person) One HUGE element-link that is now missing in raagi jathaas is knowledge of musicology, something which the above attempts to explain. It is this expression of emotion which sets real kirtan and technical (classical) raag kirtan apart. I will attempt to post the mood of one raag every few days, in a bit more detail from above. Old art from India sometimes reveals the emotion of raags in a truel beautiful way. Re the raags, Indian Classical never gives credit to the creative genius of our Guru's... Guru Ramdas Ji "INVENTED" dual rythems in one song. Today you see many musicians/artists trying to copy this i.e. hip hop artists (who appreciate our Guru's talents more than we do, as they study indian classical and use man tricks from it). "Partaal" is instructed for us to use for more complex shadab where the tuk and pada's lengths vary, meaning you can't use one taal i.e. 16 beat for the whole shabad, it is a truely mind blowing invention, and the affect in kirtan is amazing. Guru Arjun Dev Ji was the master of fusion. Many people still refer to only 31 raags in gurbani, there are in fact 60 (in my opinion - following Professor Surinder Singh Ji's research), other great Gurmat Sangeet academic Dr Gurnaam Singh Ji Punja University Patiala, claims 61-62, I can't remeber off hand, but his 61st couldn't actually be found in Gurbani, a mistake from what I remember. The remaining raags are called mishrat raags are most definately raags in their own right. Guru Arjun had a need to fill gaps in the emotional content of Gurbani which Indian classical tradition could not fill, so they fused specific raags to create new emotions relevant to the baani in question. Truely amazing. Yet instead of trying to understand, experience and promote out Guru Ji's massive contribution to Sangeet, our people would rather follow the mainstream traditionally view, even thought the evidence is there in black and white in Gurbani. Sri Sarbloh Sahib Ji is said to have over 600 raags (I haven'f had darshan as yet, but maybe a sevadaar here could count and confirm, not a 2 minute job I know), which shows the musical genius of Sri Dasam patshah. Today fulltime Raagis cannot master all over Sri Guru Granth sahib jis raags let alone, Dasam Patshaahs contribution. Mishrat raags aside, our Guru sahiban invented these raags: Majh, Vaddhans, Suhee, Maru, Tukaree, Parbhati and Jajawantee, to which no reference is found before Sri Ad Granth Sahib Ji. Thats enough for, was only supposed to be 1 point when I started writing! Vaheguru, we had our Nirdaareth raag kirtan darbaar in Tooting in South London today, it was amazing, next one will be on the 24th of May at Southgate Gurdwara in North London, I will post an advert soon, I pray my veers and bhenjis who are able will be able and come to see what exactly we are talking about above. God bless you.

Dear Chatanga Ji, 2 points: 1 - Neela rang - I have heard that neela rang serve a more practical purpose for a Khalsa, it is the colour of war - i.e. if you get cut, your clothes will conceal the red of the blood, it will make it look like sweat. In simple psychological terms, if the opposition knows your hurt, there confidence and thus strength will increase. 2 - You mentioned Hemkunt Sahib maryada, I have always been sceptical about Hemkunt Sahib, did some academic in the early 20th century not identify the location after a treasure hunt he conducted after reading Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji? So being nothing but an imagined location for where Dasam Pathshaah was in samadhi, and a recent one at that, was purpose does the mention of their kamarkasa maryada serve as it wouldn't exactly be puratan? Please forgive any mistakes/ignorence in my post..

Chatanga Ji, Thats a nice way of looking at it...

The question is one which many people ask, and in my opinion is just another example of the power of maya, and our ego and greed, to explain why everything around us is the way it is. God creates, destroys and creates according to his wish. Nature and evolution is not a challenge to God as many scientists make out, it is simply another language of God, one that the egotistical ones have found a little understanding of and by some weird default, think they invented. sochai soch na hova-ee jay sochee lakh vaar. By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times. It happened because God wished it, simple. It was Gods way of bringing about the ideal environment for man (evolution), and don't forget, where would all the coal and oil that the whole world depends on have come from, if billions of species hadn't decomposed, it was a way of Vaheguru providing resources for us. Yet instead of trying to find the benefit and kindness in Vahegurus grace, we keep taking and taking, yet instead of thanking, keep questing his kindness? daydaa day laiday thak paahi. jugaa jugantar khaahee khaahi. We shouldn't get obssesed with understanding the secrets of creation, but focus on why we are here.