shaheediyan

Very nice Madhu. Do you know how to use it....

"u mean "their" don't you?" Do you need to ask? LOl.

RaajK, Which channel do you work for?

MLOL Chatanga, you still the King of the 1 liners!

The main issue as far I have seen, was land availbality and price. In the US and CA where you have many successful Punjabi farmers, land was largely owned by the Govt and was (still is) plentiful and cheap. In the UK land has always been largely owned privately, hence scarce, plus prices have always been comparitvely expensive compared to the rest of the world. Other than that, farming is not easy. As mentioned, one would have had to get used to the difference in weather, season, crop, land management, water irrigation etc etc. US and CA climate more closely resembled Punjab, hence easier adaption. Other than that - UK had a massive industry with plenty of jobs available - the 9-5 plus overtime life was much more of a luxury than the 7 day a week hard labour farming life. Main reason again was land availability and price IMHO.

True. My favourite programme is 'Little Khalsa' an excellent Sikh transposition of the kids programme waybaloos(?). And the little kids with their Brummi accents are great!

Fateh Singh, any idea when we will be getting a Namdhari channel - with many of hours of kirtan from Bhaini Sahib being broadcast... Nihang Channel, Nirmala Channel, , Udasin Channel, Seva-Panthi Channel, Taksaal Channel.... Can't wait for the Sikh media rainbow to form!

Anyways, as has been stated - there are diverse expressions of Sikhi - which poltical/fanatical/ignorant/puritan inclined people will not be happy to share. Hence the need for more channels. People can watch in undiluted quality - whatever suits there thinking. That includes the programmes/trajectory the SC offers. Simples. The numerous Muslim channels do exacly this very successfully their are a number of Sunni/Shia/Sufi channels - with different viewopints even within those 3 main categories - catering for all audiences and allowing people to compare and make an informed choice about what direction they want to follow - rather than being brain-washed by the majority band-wagon. In anycase - it's a non issue, SC attempts to nationaly taint/emotionally blackmail the upcoming channels has failed miserably. Let's move on to bigger and better things.

RA are now working with Sikh TV - the Kirtan series is being delivered on their channel. Sikh Channel had their chance, they can stick with their anti-Dasam granth presenters (of which they have more than 1 - old and young) and Mr Bal business adverts. SC had an issue with Namdhari Kirtanis - and after 2 Senior Teachers from RA had been doing seva on SC for a while - they decided to pull the plug on them as they turned up for a show, no notice or anything. Rest of RA said if they don't play neither do we. At which point they decided on their childish tactic of not filming the Namdharis even though they were participating in the kirtan.

K, thats my point, we don't know if its halaal or not, but we do not its becoming more and more common for halal to be sold without the label (in fact this has been the case for many years, as the 2 million strong Muslim populace are a strong factor in meat purchasing in the UK). DS Babe ke Gurdwarai (Leamington) is an excellent example of a UK Gurdwara who has bought big pieces of land and grow their own food, visit it if you haven't done so already. Dikavah - All Punjabis can muster £20K-£30K for their daughters marriage (many even taking loans/remortgages to do so) yet faint at the thought of spending 50p extra for organic. Shikaar - shikaar was almost mostly done by teer or bandookh. Tulwar was only ever used as a close quarter measure when a pasu attacked by surprise (out of fear) when Singhs got to close to it's hiding place etc. If still alive - it was stabbed in the heart (as you say) or chatkaad.

"SC from what i heard took RA for a ride. " Especially what they did to your Teacher! Ask him if he hasn't told you already. That act was the depth of stupidity!

well one can make an effort at least i.e. organic flour, organic veg, organic milk - locally sourced if possible. That's quite easy to do actually. Re the process and responsibility that comes with sustainable/eco food - that speaks for itself i.e. cows giving organic milk see and eat fresh grass etc. Lol, in any case - I personally always promote Singhs to grow their own food to whatever level they can - hence our gardening threads so it shouldn't be for a lack of trying - I know that at least 2 Singhs on this forum have since/recently aqcuired some nice allotments... watch this space! In any case - there is no maryada for fruit/veg, so that arguement/trajectory is N/A. at the most basic level Guru has given some strict instructions re maas, and people don't give a hoot. The veg arguement etc pours into a wider debate about sustainability/responsibility (as does meat) - mata tarth mahath - as Nirmala Baba Balbir Singh always quotes when giving 'green' lectures. I used to know a Shia girl called Shaheeda @ school whose Dad used to keep chickens and occasional goats. he used to do the 'buesiness' himself. He was an extremely nice and devout man. We used to laugh at him back then, but I now see how responsible/faithful this man was. He ran a successful business, so it wasn't for a lack of money or civilised behaviour.

"If someone dont agree with Sanagat TV / Sikh TV will they then open another channel" Yes. If at 1st you don't succeed and all that.

Irrelevant of whether one believes Singhs can only eat ritualised or non-ritualised chatka, the problem remains - that when you Singhs buy their meat - they have no idea where it has come from i.e. how it was killed, how the animal was treated/raised, the crap the animal was injected with to make it abnormally large etc etc. It would be good if there was a verified source of meat - in terms of it being organic and killed in a humane/quick way (which having studied the subject a few years ago - I found no evidence of this). An abattoir is simply a business - where animals are products and no compassion is shown in their killing. This highly contrasts the respect that native warrior cultures and puratan Singhs gave to their 'game' and or sacrifical animal. Truth is, that probably 99.99% of Sikhs who eat meat, don't give a rats a*** where it comes from, they don't care whether it's halal or not, they simply choose to ignore any notion of investigation. I myself know a Gurdwara pardhaans 'Sikh' son who buys his chops from an halal butchers. For the Veggies, do you have any idea where your milk comes from? I don't see any campaign pressuring Gurdwarai to purchase only organic milk (as opposed to milk from mutated, ill treated, offal fed - factory cows). Nor do I see any campaign for organic veg to be solely used in Gurdwarai. It all comes down to money - whether meat, milk, veg or whatever - Punjabis will always go for the cheaper option i.e. halal, in reality, '£000s savings' are the true Guru, as opposed to a conscience. 1 or 2 Sikhs opposing halal domination ain't gonna make jack difference. What is needed is promotion of principles, ideals, compassion and health. The difference will then be made starting at an individual level - when numbers gather - then 'a plan' will be possible. The plan should not be just for Sikhs - but for all - i.e. consumption of animals who have had a natural diet, healthy lifestyle (mentally as well as physically - i.e. not walking back and forth in a small confined space) and compassionate death. Even Muslims and Jews go down the ignorant route - they may kill there animals using 'modern' halal and kosher methods - i.e. tape playing prayers, screaming animals hanging upside down having their throat chopped without any skill/attention by some khafir Brit etc etc. Their won religios rules about treatment and death of animals, sucham, butcher reciting prayers etc all go out the window. Everyone today is a fake.

Interesting point, and something I have been telling people for years. I fail to see how Singhs can eat meat in the UK, when they have absolutely no evidence the meat has been jatkad. More so, as the article points out, many 'meat production' factories operate halaal production as standard, saves them time and money - gorai don't give 2 hoots - it is only a near non-existant % of the Sikh population that is affected. So: 1 - Meat not prepared via jatka; 2 - Probabilty of meat being halaal (even if not labeled as such) Just interested to know how Singhs in the UK justify eating meat in their minds... When at Uni, the 1st Punjabi chippy opened up. The 'Shere Punjab' member Sikh used to tell Muslims the meat was halaal and Sikhs that it was jatkad. This is the same story with 'Sikh' butchers/meat sellers all over the UK in my experience. Even in India, sounds like the above is becoming a problem, although Punjab is probably not affected as yet.

I have worked with many, many antipodeans over the last 10 years, of all, Australians are consistantly the worst in terms of backward/nazi/hillbilly attitudes - what chance does anyone else have, when the native aborigines are blamed for all evil. Kiwis are much better - they actually pretend they have Maori blood somewhere in their past. South Africans - English are nearly always cool - Dutch (Afrikaans) are mixed - with some being cool - others still holding deep down resentment against blacks.

Why don't you just ask Prof rather than getting 2nd hand information?

Amardeep, Although credit etc needs to be given to Mr Bal setting up the 1st channel - it was done all wrong. Initially it was an extention of his business (his Punjabi Music Channels) - later after much feedback it was given some sort of inbetween charity/business status. Nearly all the adverts on their are for Mr Bals various businesses. It was no short of embarrising the massive - 'we have set up the channel but have no money campaign' that followed for months on end. The channel has had a very high volunteer/staff turnover - to the point that enough people who have left it have set up the 3rd Sikh channel. There communication etc is generally rubbish, they are highly opinionated and political in their decisions re subjects and who to allow on their shows. Those that are 'in the crowd' generally call the shots, rather than being open to ideas. These are things I have personally observed/experienced. Saying all that - the channel is still valuable and has provided a valuable resource for what I would say is generally the 1st generation Sikhs in the UK. Sangat Channel has done everything in quite the opposite fashion - I wish them good luck. They are a charity, their finances were sorted before the channel was launched, they have seeked and gained blessings from many Mahapursh etc at the outset. They are aiming to be truly all inclusive in who they allow to do seva on the channel. They have sourced Sikh professionals before launching etc. As far as I know the channel is generally being run by GNNSJ - who are highly organised and professional in their approach to all projects they undertake. Good luck to them - and more channels I say - celebrating diverstiy rather than trying to create small box Sikhi. This is the channel I think will appeal to the intellligent youngsters - such a basic thing such as having subtitled English translations for kathaa videos is vital for an 'English' Sikh Channel - which Sangat TV have thankfully taken on board.

Nice to see there are a growing number of Sikh Channels and Mr Bals world domination of Sikh TV has been broken ;-) I particularly like the direction the Sangat Channel is taking, me thinks all that hidden Sikh talent is finally going to emerge!! The 3rd Sikh channel, don't really know much about it (haven't had time to watch) is that the 3HO effort?

Bhai Mehtab Singh Ji's recitation are beautiful - shud - he has done a full Das Granthi recitation. Raagmala, whilst you are on a roll - try doing Akaal Ustat paath - the poetry is totally mindblowing as is the energy flow which emerges from it.

Few thoughts: Personally (right or wrong), I instinctively put practicality 1st. I try and do Chandi paath everyday - usually timing it before my training sessions, to me, that is what it is for - dhyaan on shakti and yudh. To just do it once a year seems no different to Muslims showing restraint for just one month a year or a Hindu fasting for single periods etc. Kalyug veer mentioned not letting it be an empty ritual and doing some drills... traditionally artisans in India take one day off every year (Baba Vishvakarma janam divas)in order to clean/fix their tools, do pooja etc etc. The concept is the same as dushera, where by the 'tools of the trade' are given a day off out of respect, and an opportunity is given to maintain them/respect them/show appreciation for them. Today we live in a complex world, where by some try to keep traditions going, but have no understanding of their purpose. Imagine some tarkaan kid (who is actually an office worker and doesn't jack about the building trade) cleaning and showing respect to his family tools once a year! Sound silly...? I am in no way talking about Singhs who have shown interest in this thread, but in general. Singhs everywhere love hording and building collections of shastar, but the extremely large majority have zero idea of how to use them. Guru is interested in gyaan, not in museum collections. IMHO Guru praises and requires vidya, then he requires the shastar to compliment/justify the vidya. Today people just have shastar. What is the point poojing something you don't understand. A bit like people who mathha-tek to Aad Guru Granth Sahib all their life, but have never read, listened to or learnt what the gyaan means, forget about the application of it. Back to Kalyug bro, if you are training with your shastar daily, give them a rest. Clean them up, meditate on them, admire them, respect them. That is what a Singh does on Dusera. Doing chandi paath, shastar pooja etc etc, without having yudh on your curriculum/daily routine - to me, is an empty ritual. Somewhat like doing Sukhmani Sahib everyday, and not doing simran. Bhulchuk Maaf.

Nav-rati = 9 nights.

Back to the kukris, here is a beautiful one for sale: http://www.shasterkhajana.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=113

Baburs story is an amazing one, well worth reading. As Mithar says, he was a military genius. But his passion, skills and ruthless mindset can be understood from reading about his childhood. That he brought rule to India is not something to cry about, it was his destiny and Gods will. His coming laid the red carpet for the emergence of Satguru. Babur was simply a pawn.

Not sure if anyone reads the National Geographic here, but there was an excellent article on the 'real Pakistan' which looked into taliban support, taliban hate, economic influenced difference/opinions, regional differences i.e. Punjabis, Sindhis etc, as well as the growing westernised middle class. Defunks many stereotypes. This brainwashed taliban prat got what he deserved, I agree, we need to make some examples of people with ill intentions here in the UK also.