das

Thanks Chatanga veer for the download.

First of all, I'm NOT administrator or police or someone whose job is tell people what is right vs wrong. Everyone is responsible for it's own karma and free-will. Secondly, even though I've mentioned your name in the first 2-3 lines (because basically you just start debate at first place); but other persons are equally responsible as they also say bad things; specially I've never seen chatanga saying bad words but he did........so, all in all everyone is responsible for his/her bad behavior and due to this I've posted the questions to ponder upon. Basically, intention was stop throwing mud at yourself (whosoever is involved: i.e both parties). As a matter of fact, we all came from the same source. "War is delightment to those who have had NO experience of it" - Desiderius Erasmus Everyone (including me) should try to understand that we all are suffering from 5 afflections of mind; once we understand these it would be easier to know when we're arguing over nothing. Does anyone know that the person who started this topic has left, but you guys continue debating. * Ignorance (Avidaya) * Ego (Asmita) * Attachment (Raga) * Hatred/Aversions/Dislike/Animosity (Dvesha) * Abhinivehsa Reference: http://satgur.net/Topic/Details/124

Sher, why you're so interested in always opposing one or the other caste/religion/creed?? You even force some normaly cool persons to loose their cool. I don't think you're getting any enjoyment or profit from this, then why we (You, Me, and Others involved) are so dumb to waste our time in proving someone wrong even though we don't know if we're right or not?? Secondly, if Sher is creating the environment of problem, then I would suggest do NOT answer his questions, ignore and please let the peace pervail. Everyone please answer the following: Who are we? A human bound within the chains of religion/caste/creed? What is the religion of Soul? Do you know that you are the most coward person ever present on earth? Do you even know who is your enemy? Isn't it strange that we never put the fight against our "Desires" which is the root cause of all other problems including (krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar)? Instead we expose ourself wrongly as Truth Bearers yet don't know the Truth? Let me end this topic with the saying of one of the Mahapurash: Why are you so engrossed in worries? Why are you afraid of some one? Who may kill you? The soul is immortal; it neither dies nor takes birth. The present is here and now, the past is irrecoverable and the future will be good. Don't fret over the past and don't be worried about the future. The present is going on. Why do you cry? What did you lose? When you were born, what did you bring along, which has been lost? What did you produce which has been perished? It is here that you gained and it is here that you lose. The man comes to; and goes from world, empty handed. What you own today was not yours yesterday and will not be yours tomorrow. It does not and will not belong to anyone. You consider it your own and rejoice. This happiness of possession leads you to utter grief. Yours is this world. Start from where you feel to; stay where you desire and wind up where you want to. It has no beginning and no end. You don't fear anyone, but yourself. You are the fright and also the frightened. Change is the truth of life. What you consider as death is life in reality. In a moment a multi-millionaire is turned pauper. Give up the feeling of possession, great & the mean; differentiation of friend & foe. Then all is yours and you for everyone. Your corporeal being is a product of air, water and fire and it merges into the same leaving behind neither blood nor bones. Still yours existence remains the same. Then ponder over what you are. Wake up! and become the eternal sons of the Almighty. You are the great and unique manifestation of Nature's power. All the divine powers are possessed by you, like a tree hidden in the seed. In fact you don't fear anybody; you don't have any worry, suspicion, pain or grief. You are His dear ones. Surrender yourself completely to Him. Always, remember the "Waheguru" (God) to achieve salvation. Let your life be guided by the saying "Whatever God wills, is good". Be content with the will of God. Remember Him both in pleasure & pain. Das

edit

Thanks for your response. Yes, I can also read my own palms to some extent and I'm working on reading the palms mostly to get an idea of the person's health issues. Yes, I understand that we can change/cancel/postpone/convert-to-lesser-degree thing by working on our consciousness or say by meditation. I've also experienced dreams where our sub-consciousness helps us and also sometimes our Spiritual Guides helps us that way. My intention was to get the names of real Psychics in current times e.g in the past: Edgar Cayce etc. And I'm Cancerian.

I'm not a fan of psychic reader (as defined in Western culture); but I do consider the True Remote-Viewers/Psychic/Trance/Spirit-Mediumship/Channeling. So, I was wondering if anybody has ever taken the inputs from Trance mediums. I recently took the consultation from John Russell (http://atdaylong.tripod.com/aboutme.html) basically for the Spiritual stuff and very impressed with his abilities to explain the things. Kindly, share if any of you had any personal experience with any Trance-Medium via a physical person or via dreams or any other way. And please do NOT hijack the thread starting the debate on if this works or not or if it is good vs wrong. Please please post your personal experiences and NOT the theory from books. Please share.

A man was watching a DVD at home.. and jor jor se cheekhne laga ..... Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Ghode par se mat utar.. Pagal mat utar.. Its a trap!! Its a trap!! Marega  saale.. Wife asked: Kya dekh rahe ho? Husband replied: Our wedding DVD!!

really very good. Thanks for sharing.

I was listening to another deewan of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji of Rara Sahib where he has explained in detail the dhayan of Sakar. Even the Shabad (including Waheguru Shabad) cannot reach "Nirankar". HE/Nirankar is beyond anything. I thought someone might be interested in this. It starts from around 50 minutes. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_%28Rara_Sahib_wale%29/101-150/147--Sant.Isher.Singh.%28Rara.Sahib.Wale%29--Bhagat.Naamdev.Raja.Janak.Ji.mp3 Here please keep in mind that I'm NOT saying that today's so-called Fake Gurus are required. What I understood is even Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Sakar as we also say in Ardas (Pargat Gurur de deh.......) and the requirement to go beyond the Sakar is using the Sakar initially.

Albcan, from the text of your topic, it does NOT seem like your intention of posting this topic was to bring about a genuine point that everyone in this world is doing Idol puja (as per the following) and very few understands the real meaning of Idol puja. Instead it seems like your real intention was just to prove that Sikhs do the idol puja and they are also fools. Please for your own sake, win your Maan/Mind instead of showing your debate strength here. Almost everyone in this world is doing Murti/Bott/Idol puja. What is Idol puja: Putting your concentration/Dhayan on the physical object (person or object or anything which has shape). There is another rule that the Soul will become what he/she is idoling. e.g The person having exclusive dhayan on money would lead the soul to take birth of snake. The person having exclusive dhayan on children would lead the soul to take birth of pig. The person having exclusive dhayan on wife would lead the soul to birth of prostitute. The person having exclusive dhayan on any demi-god would lead the soul to their corresponding regions. i.e to the max to the upper heavens in Casual/Brahmund region. The person having exclusive dhayan on Vedas could lead the soul to the corresponding region from where the Vedas came from i.e from the Sunna/Mental state/region. The person having exclusive dhayan on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji would lead the soul to the corresponding region from where the Bani came i.e from the Sachkhand. The person having exclusive dhayan on Pura-Guru would lead the soul to the corresponding region from where the Guru came from (or upto the region where Guru has access to). So, based upon the above (you can very easily find the proofs for the above from any religious granths), you can say that the person putting his dhayan (puja) on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji would take the person to the highest level of God which is Sachkhand. Whereas claim of "educated hindus in the west who pray to status say they know the status have no powers but the image is to help them focus their energy towards the god their praying to" means that they would be taken to their god's region which happens to cease at Causal/Brahmund region.

To add what Sat has mentioned, I would like to underline few tuks from his response in order to have more clarity. Under Guru`s Instruction, I shall not have to enter the womb again; I have renounced the poison of corruption, and I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. updays guroo mam puneh na garbhaN bikh taj amrit pee-aa-i-aa. The True Guru is the All-knowing Primal Being; He shows us our true home within the home of the self. ghar meh ghar daykhaa-ay day-ay so satgur purakh sujaan.

As I've mentioned in the previous posts also that till now I did NOT have any spiritual experience(s). But I guess sometimes, it is easier to solve the problem in simpler terms instead of complicating it with various information. What I've learnt from many sources (physical and non-physical) is that: For True liberation (at-least out of Sunn state (mental) and beyond) one needs to have someone who can guide us. We can choose to call that one: Sant/Brahmgyani/Mahapurash/Spiritual-Guide/Guru or any other name. Even one can have Sri Guru Granth Sahib as his/her Guru but we must remember that even in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there are numerous tuks describing the need of True Sant. Brahmgyanis are needed even to understand the True meaning of the Bani. Without the True Brahmgyani, it is NOT possible to cross the Sunn state. All of our hard work (Meditation without Guru) can have all the rishi-siddhis, knowledge, Sawarg, and possibly human birth again but not the liberation. But that does NOT mean that Meditation is of no use. We need to do Meditation and once we're ready for Guru, Guru will come to us (NO need to search for him). Our meditation (without Guru) could help us to remain in the Astral and Causal worlds and then from there a True Guru could lead us to Sachkhand slowly. Thirdly, there is another rule: Let's say we had Guru in some previous birth, then that pura Guru IS helping us in this birth also. Most of the time, we think that we're doing meditation (without having Guru) but in reality we are under the Guru's guidance but just don't know that. For most of us, Salvation takes number of births and during all those births it is our Guru who is helping us from higher planes. In each birth he would meet us in one or the other form. e.g The person who in previous birth had taken up Khande-da-Amrit and did his/her meditation then after the death, he would again given birth in Sikh family and would take Khande-de-Pahul in childhood. Here are the 3 examples which does prove it: Guru Nanak Dev Ji used to take bath in River Vae (in Sultanpur) everyday. One day He went in river and did not come back for 3 days. During this time He went to Sachkhand to meet Himself (His Self in base form). The Nirankar asked His form (Guru Nanak Dev Ji) why He had not started preaching the jiva till this age; to which Guru Nanak Dev Ji told Him that there is a rule in lower worlds (Mat Lok) that one needs to have Guru. To this Nirankar (another form of Guru Nanak) agreed to be Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Guru. First the Nirankar gave BabaJi the updesh of "Satnaam" and then the Mool-Mantar (till Gurparshad). Even though Nirankar gave the Mool-Mantar till "Gurparshad", all Mahapurakhs suggest to do the Moolmantar jaap till "Nanak Hose Bhe Sach". It is clear from this example that even the God Himself has to take the Guru as He is playing the Natak perfectly. There is also one Audio deewan of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib where all of the above is mentioned (starting from minute 30.00) http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_%28Rara_Sahib_wale%29/051-100/070--Sant.Isher.Singh.%28Rara.Sahib.wale%29--Sri.Guru.Nanak.Dev.Ji.da.Sachkhand.Jana.mp3 Also from the jeevan of ALL yesterday year Karak Mahapurashs (Sant Baba Attar Singh Ji, Sant Baba Karam Singh Ji, Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji, Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji, and many more), we can easily see that they had taken the Khande-de-paul and also had the guidance of another Sants. Now, ALL these Sants had the inner voice/guidance but they opted for external Guru because it is the Rule and They play the Natak with perfect characters. Also Bhagat Kabir had akash-bani (voice from sky) to have Ramanand as his Guru. Raja Janak knew all the spiritual stuff and was antarmukhi and had spirutual experiences. But when the Astabakar (a child Saint) did updesh to Raja Janak, he instantly had a samadi because his deeva was already full of ghee with batthi (cotton-thread) and the only missing thing was the jot with which Raja Janak's deva could be lighten up. And this jot was his Guru in the form of Astabakar Sant. Becoming Antarmukhi (concentration inside) is the starting point and it is not the gurantee that whatever sounds/lights we're seeing comes from Sachkhand in UN-modified form(s). Maya/Kaal is huge complex power due to which 84 crore jeevs are wandering in vain unless guided by a True Soul who comes from the Sachkhand. Only Sant/Guru could help the seeker to be on the right path and NOT misled by the traps of Maya/Kal. e.g a sound coming from the flute could be modified by using filters and the modified sound may falsily sound like an approaching train or us approching the station (our destination). At last, I've posted this reponse NOT to state Right vs Wrong OR to prove who is right or wrong. Sometimes it is best to take things in simplier terms.

Here is the video of one of the Baba who comes around once a year to our neighborhood in the early morning (before sunset). I love his voice and true lyrics. My parents told me that in yester years these Babas come during Amrit vela in villages and sing God's songs. http://speedy.sh/2GXAY/Video-Singing-Baba-Part-1.mp4

my understanding is that: The Sunn state (Mental) is very far and extremely hard to cross. Once anyone reaches this stage he would have all the knowledge of past, present, and future in the 3 worlds (Physical, Astral, and Causal) because he/she can see the subtle form of thoughts in the Causal plane (which happens to be the seed state of thoughts). Secondly, no-one was ever able to cross the Sunn state without Kamal/Pura Guru. It is Guru who would switch our dhayan from sargun to nirgun and then beyond and that's when He feels we're ready.

Thanks Neo for adding. I'm glad that your post has cleared some doubts that my post may have created like: this and that formula. I didn't mean to portray that everyone needs to bound to single rule/formula etc, nor the intention was to lay out the steps. As it is mentioned it is upto the Guru to decide what technique/route is best for the seeker based upon his/her capacity. So, to conclude or say to further condence, Guru Ji have said: Naam (Simran, Dhayan, and Gyan; Guru would be able to tell us the Gur-mantar along with the technique/route based upon the seeker's capacity/level; so Guru is must Daan (Helping needy), Isnaan (Purity of Body and Mind).

Bhaji, I did not mention the Spiritual stages. I merely mentioned the core things required for Salvation along with the need to follow the technique. You're right in terms of stages but I was pointing out that technique is must in Naam-Simran (Saas-Saas, Saas-Grass, Surat-Shabad-Marg, and countless other) I agree with your list, Gyaan is the actual liberator, but it comes through Simran and Dhayan. Keep in mind that for both Simran and Dhayan technique is required which comes from Guru as per the level of the student. After reading and listening number of Mahapurashs, I have tried to condense the teachings into (here please don't confine the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to only Sikhs or Sikhi terms, the teachings are meant for the people from ALL religions along with the persons who don't follow any religion.). In other words, let’s assume that the other person doesn’t believe in God. If you want, you can easily find the corresponding tuks from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for any of the following points. 1. First we need to know that there is a God and HIS ways of working. Is there a God and if yes why we cannot see Him? What are the various forms of God? Importance of Human-Birth. Law of Maya, Change, Karma, Free-will, Grace, Guru, Faith, Prayer 2. Second, we need to know what are right vs wrong. In other words, what are the things are creating bondages for us. e.g If we don't know what is wrong, then we cannot avoid that. Our limited Mind. 5 Klesas, 5 Vishe, 5 Vikar, 5 Bhed, 3 diseases of Mind (Asa, Trishna, Chinta), 4 Primitive fountains. 3. Finally, we need to know what needs to be done after agreeing that we (soul) are part of God and we got to avoid bad things. Acquire good virtues (Santokh, Daya, Nimrata, Unselfish love, Deeraj, Determination, Attention, Silence and Stillness). How to control our thoughts and emotions and make our Mind one-point. In other words, how to be antar-mukh. Acquire 4 qualities (Vivek, Veerag, Shat Sampatti, Mumukchatva) and 6 wealths [sama/Control-of-mind, Dama (Control-of-senses), Upam (Withdrawal), Titiksha (Forbearance), Shraddha (Faith), Samadhana (Focus)] What and Where is Happiness/Salvation. 3 techniques for salvation (Leave Ego, Contentment, and Naam-Simran). ALL religions teach [Purity of Mind, Concentration of Mind, Gyan/Knowledge, Vig-gyan). Learn about: Simran, Gyan, and Dhayan. Simran is always of Gur-Mantar (which by Guru and techinque is also given by Guru), Dhayan is always of Gur-Murat and Gyan follows the Simran and Dhayan. As far as Steps are concerned, here it goes: There are total of 7 categories/steps of wisdom. It does not matter to which religion we belong to. The first 3 categories are for students on the spiritual path; 4th for Gyanvan; and last 3 are for Jewan Mukt. In first 3 categories, various techniques are implemented in order to purify and make Anthakaran one-pointed; in 4th category, one gets Gyan (Prabhu Prapati) in which world is atma roop and in this category there is no janam; in 5th one wakes up themselves from Nirvikalap Samad; in 6th one wakes up from Nirvikalap Samad when someone wakes them up; in 7th one does not wake up. All kriyas stop and as body is because of food and in this category one leaves the body after some time without food etc. e.g Lamp goes off when there is no oil left in it. Good-Desire (Subhecha): It is the first category of Sadhana: We do not want to be bad; we want to be good. Something is very wrong with me right from the beginning. I do not know my past, I do not know my future, and even today, just at this moment, I cannot understand what circumstances I am passing through.” This is the beginning of wisdom, and is called subecha in the language of the Yoga Vasishtha – wanting to know what is good. Though the nature of the good is not actually known, there is at least a desire to know it. In this category one has to keep away from bad things (Kam, Krodh, Lob, Moh, Ahankar), keep senses under control, and adopt the good virtues so that it helps to purify and make the Anthakaran one-pointed. Inquiry (Vicharana/Vichar): It is the next effort to find out what is good. It is not enough if we merely want the good; we must know where the good lies, and strive for it. This is self-analysis, vicharana. Satsanga, study, attending discourses of mahatmas, worship, japa sadhana, are all helpful in this category. Thinned Mind (Tanumansi): It is thread like condition of the mind where it is transparent and reflects the true nature of everything. In this category one gets to know that the bondages are created by himself because of the attachments. The mind which was once opaque due to the desire for enjoyment of the objects of the world, due to which the light of the Self within could not be reflected, becomes thinned in this scategorye. Just as sunlight cannot pass through a brick and can pass only through a glass, in the earlier scategoryes, due to the thickened form of the mental process, the very idea of there being something called the Atman within cannot be possible, but after assiduous practice in this manner, the mind becomes thin. Attainment of Sattva (Sattwapatti): In this category the Mind gets pure sattvic transparent condition, free from any kind of distraction or lethargy, i.e., rajas and tamas. By continuing the practice of first 3 scategoryes for a long, long time throughout one’s life, the sattva, or the purity in one’s person, flashes forth, and the sun of knowledge begins to dazzle through this mirror-like thin mind that has been attenuated through the absence of desires. In this scategorye there are no more births. i.e it is also called attaintment (Prabhu Prapati). True Non-Attachment (Asamsakti): Here total detachment takes place. Because of the bliss that we enjoy by the experience of this light of Self emanating from within one’s own self through the mind that is so transparent, we do not feel a desire for anything that is outside; we feel that we are sufficient in ourselves. Our very being is a joy to us, and we do not want anything from any other thing. Detachment takes place spontaneously in this scategorye. It is not the non-attachment that has been inflicted by deliberate austerity, but a spontaneous event that is taking place on account of the knowledge abiding in the sadhaka. Analysis of Objects (Padarthabhavana): In this category we do not recognise that the world is really material. It is no more an object. All the things in the world appear as a congealed form of universal power. It is as if the motion of universal force gets concentrated into these knots appearing as space and time, to which we give an appellation of objects, persons, things, etc. There are no persons, no things, no objects ultimately. They are concentrated pressure points of universal force. We will never see anything material afterwards. It is all one inundating force permeating all things, looking like objects, persons and things. Final Category (Turiya): It is the final category and it is salvation. This is the reason for our human birth: i.e to get to this scategorye. When such a state of universal recognition of a pervading force is attained, the only thing that remains for a person – who is really not a person but is a centre of force – is to identify one’s own localised point of existence with this universal force so that what exists is not a perceived sadhaka of universal power, because this sadhaka has gone into the very bosom of the sea of power. Instead, it is cosmic prana, cosmic mind, cosmic intellect, cosmic consciousness, whatever we may call it. This state of immersion of one’s own individuality into the pervading presence of universal force is true liberation. In simplier terms: How to attain Salvation within one Birth Have Nirmata. Brahmachraj (Don't see another man/women) Do not steal and have Santokh. Do not do Nidea/Backbitting. Simran/Meditation of Guru updesh. Have less food, and less sleep. One Saint has given the following flow-chart to achieve Salvation: Do the company of Sant/Mahapurash/Saint. 2. If you cannot do that, then do Naam (Meditation); Dan/Charity of 10% of your income to needy; Isnan (Bath). If you cannot do Naam, Dan, and Isnan, then do not overburden yourself with sins. In other words, avoid doing sins. If you cannot refrain from sins, then it is better to die because without doing steps 1, 2, 3 you are bound to fall to lower planes.

Updated

yes, that is absolutely right. Prana is the energy which is the sustainer of Life.

All these are part of techniques taught by Mahapurashs. These come under Bhagti (Naam Simran)......Naam Simran diyian jugtia

If a math sum cannot be solved without the formula, then how come it is possible to achieve God with formula?? Air planes fly in air, ships float in water just because of formula. HE cannot be attained through sheer force but he could be attained through: Veerag, Bhagti, and Gyan. Gyan: Basically this is the only requirement for Salvation. But Gyan comes through Naam Simran with full Attention (Dhayan). Simran is always of GurMantar and GurMantar is given by ONLY Guru. One has to follow a technique which is specified by Brahmgyani. There is NO question of attaining Waheguru without following a technique told by Brahmgyani. And Brahmgyani gives Naam only when the student has Prem and Veerag and ready to do Bhagti. So, Prem and Veerag is required but saying technique is not required is wrong. Veerag: It is one of the 4 qualities required for salvation which happens to be: Vivek, Veerag, Shat Sampatti (Sama, Dama, Upram, Titiksha, Shraddha, Samadhana). Bhagti: It is the rememberance of Waheguru. It is of 9 types: Sarvan, Kirtan, Simran, Bandhan, Ardas, Acharan, Dasabhav, Shakha/Shakhi Bhav, Atamnavedan/Brahmgyan.

Lucky bhaji I think you previous understanding of Saas-Grass was correct. Saas-Grass is process where the prana is travelling between kanth/throat-chakra and nabhi/solar-plexus; Saas is up and Giras is down. It is neither Breath and Morsel nor breath-in and out. For more information you can refer to Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's bachan and deewans. There is The Excellent explanation of these things in the attached file. The following file has crystal clear sound without any distortion. http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/515949/Atamik-Bachan-Part-01-mp3.html Secondly, it is NOT possible to separate Mind and Breath. Both are interdependent. Mind cannot operate without the help of Prana. The vibrations of Prana only produce thoughts in the mind. It is Prana that moves the mind. It is Prana that sets the mind in motion. Also Mind can be controlled via Breath and Breath can be controlled by Mind. e.g in deep meditation the mind is still and therefore the breaths are very deep and long.

It's my personal experience that whenever I disclose publicly that I'm going to do this and that, then it is always hard to sustain that. So, as the Sant/Mahapurash says, do your simran but don't do the public announcement.

don't know what to say or write after thoroughly reading the article......just can't imagine what might be going through the innocent mind of 6 year old child when she was sold and pushed it.... Eti Maar Pai Kurlane Ta Ki Dard Na Aeia really why these innocent children suffer? Please God/Waheguru (whatever you are) safe these kids.

To Sher: ok bhaji continue wasting your time, I'm simply not interested in wasting mine time and energy, have already put my thoughts. Writing responses to such topics take lot of time and energy. So, at last for your "compulsive reader mind" here are some short quotes to ponder upon: The following quotes do NOT belong to current topic, but I've added these just for both parties pleasure; History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there. - George Santayana A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots. - Marcus Garvey Do not be misled by what you see around you, or be influenced by what you see. You live in a world which is a playground of illusion, full of false paths, false values and false ideals. But you are not part of that world. - Sai Baba Fear not for the future, weep not for the past. - Percy Bysshe Shelley He was what I often think is a dangerous thing for a statesman to be - a student of history; and like most of those who study history, he learned from the mistakes of the past how to make new ones. - A. J. P. Taylor Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. - Buddha The distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. - Albert Einstein Prejudice is a burden that confuses the past, threatens the future and renders the present inaccessible. - Maya Angelou We are made wise not by the recollection of our past, but by the responsibility for our future. - George Bernard Shaw If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? - William Shakespeare Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell. - Buddha

Anyone who does NOT have colored glasses would agree that the original starters (persons who took arms AFTER 84 riots) were right when their intention was to put resistance to oppressors; keeping in mind that police and justice system were against them. It's a different story when they got wrong when innocent lives were involved and some other fake joined them. I fail to understand why would someone NOT agree with this; e.g if someone insults (our: your or mine) sisters or mothers, would we offer another sister for sacrifice or put resistance?? I think it is NOT possible for anyone to answer this question unless one's family is involved in those times. Bhaji, jis ke upar guzarte ha, vohe janta ha. I agree that as all the major players (physical ones) are gone, and therefore it needs closure. Sher, in general, allow me to suggest you something. You are filled with Raw Energy, Zeal, and Will-Power to pursue a topic/situation at hand, but unfortunately you are wasting it on causes which neither helps you nor anyone. So, I would request you to pursue things which would lead to peace of mind for you as well as others. e.g if you have Lamborghini with full tank and you just keep on pressing the gas-pedal at one place without ever moving the car, then eventually you will run out of gas/fuel and then the purpose of car would be NIL as what would be the use of a car which cannot start (after the exhaustion of fuel). So, if you love to read, then do NOT go with so-called history about the material world only which is bound to be distorted (for either parties) and it would help you to reach the aim of life. If you love to read foreign authors, local authors, author related to specific religion, then I could suggest you some authors (except for so-called history). At the same time, I also agree that everyone SHOULD read History but do NOT go over the edge by starting quarrelling with each other. Peace