das

where it was said that ghosts are integral part of Sikhism??.....tomorrow someone will ask if "plants/animals" are integral part of Sikhism........ghosts etc. are integral part of 84 lakh jooni and NOT Sikhism. anyone having the 2nd tape, please upload it. das

does anyone have the tape in which Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji spoke with suleman? I already have the recording where suleman is talking to the sangat...it's around 1 hour long, but right now, I am looking for the second tape. If anyone has that tape please upload it somewhere. In the 3rd page of this thread "DhanBabaNanak" has mentioned that he has the 2nd tape and Neo requested him for the link.....but I do NOT know if Neo's or DhanBabaNanak has that tape today. das

that's very nice of you Kam1825.....thank you very much!

Hi everyone, I have downloaded around 15 parts of Atmik Bachans from: http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/li...2FAtamik+Bachan Now, I would like to clean them to get a great quality. So, please someone suggest any software that you or Mehta have used to clean the mp3 files. I will really appreciate that help. Thanks das

Thanks jsingh96 for the reference. But I have few questions as follows: I'm NOT sticking to my point, but trying to get the core: - "this is part of the bachans guru sahib is givin his khalsa panth after the first amrit sancahar. this is clear instruction to hunt and eat jhatka." - Is there any other reference when Guru Gobind Singh Ji said this apart from "pracheen panth prakhash"?? - How is "pracheen panth prakhash" taken by Sants/Mahapurashs. I think Neo and Kam1825 have the opportunity to meet with great Sants if they can shed some light on it. das

It is evident from the history that there were some instances where GuruJi ordered their Singhs to kill some animals (if I remember correctly snake, titar etc.), but that was the ORDER of Guru and after killing that animal Guru Ji explained why that animal was killed and what it did in its previous birth. At the same time I am NOT able to find ANY reference where GuruJi ordered their Singhs to do that reguarly (every year or on every occasion).......I've repeatedly requested senior members number of times to let the public know the instances where 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th GuruJi ordered their Singhs to do jhatka EVERY year or regularly on every occasion, but nothing has come up yet. I do NOT know how to write it, but let's say in 2 lines: Killing of animals by GuruJi or by their Singhs (on Guru's order) is quite different from today's regular jhatka. Killing of animals by Guru and their Singhs (on Guru's order) is being mis-interpreted and giving these references, it does NOT approve the jhatka. Now, please senior members provide the reference where Guru Ji has ordered their Sikhs to kill animals REGULARLY or for Jhatka every year.....and please do NOT provide the reference where GuruJi killed or HIS Singhs (on Guru's order) killed animals on some occasions........I am requesting for proper reference "Where GuruJi instructed us to do jhatka reguarly".......do NOT interpret the Sakhi by saying Guru or Guru's Singh did this, so it is approved.........let us present all sakhis (without interpretation) which you think that it leads to approval of jhatka. Let me share with you a sakhi of karams as follows: Once there was a Rajkumar who was married to a Rajkumari. One day Rajkumar bought a new sword, when he was sleeping his wife wanted to see the new sword and she got the sword from its Meaan and by chance (by mistake) the sword fell on her husband's neck and the Rajkumar's head got seperated from his body. His wife feared that she would face the punishment now, so fearing from the punishment she put the blaim on another person who was a bhagat of Shiva. AND due to that that bhagat was given punishment by cutting his one hand. Now, that Shiv bhagat goes to another Jootshi and asked why he got the punishment for the things that he did NOT go. Then that Jootshi told him that: it's result of his last janam's karam. He told hime that in his last janam, on the shores of Ganga you were doing taap and nearby there was a butcher/meat wala and one day his gao ran and that that meat wala asked you "Have you seen gaoo" and as you were doing your taap, so just pointed your finger towards that direction. That meat wala goes in that direction and then killed the gao there and then a lion came and ate that killed gao and meatwala also. Then comes great rain and the bones of that meatwala and gao came to Ganga. And due to the Ganga's importance (Ganga de mahatam): Meatwala born into one Raja's house as Rajkumar, and gao also become Rajkumari. Due to this Rajkumari(gao in previous birth) killed Rajkumar(meatwala in previous birth) and the pandat got the punishment for the share of giving the directions to meatwala which led the death of gao. Now, how could jhatka (by normal persons) and eating meat be allowed to anyone (either by Nihangs or Warrior class).

Firstly, I am NOT pointing at someone in particular. But its really hard to digest that some persons having such a great knowledge could think this way. - Guru Ji might have killed goats or any other animal, but HE never ordered us to follow them regularly. Wherever Guru Ji killed any animal during hunting or otherwise, it was meant to free that animal from that juni. Guru Ji was able to provide mukti because HE HIMESELF is mukt. - If saying that jatka and meat consumption is fine for Nihang or so called Warrior people, then those warrior people should fulfill their duties also. e.g where were those warriors during 1984 in India, 11/2001 in USA, or recently in Mumbai or in any other place where humanity is being buried..........in Sikhism warrior do NOT only defend iteself, their duty is to save humanity from bad forces.......but to be frank I have NOT seen your warrior class in any situation. Wake up, it is NOT the right of warrior people to have meat and jatka............I can agree to some extent that if someone is fighting for other people for long time and there is nothing to eat, then one could think of having meat as last optoin.......but in normal life justing saying we are Nihangs or warrior class and having meat does NOT make sense. Lastly, the people who gives examples of Gurus killing animals during hunting and other examples to prove that eating meat and doing jhatka is ok, I have a question for them............why do NOT they copy other things of Guru Ji (in reality we should NEVER copy Guru's act).....but if someone wants then copy fully.......by requesting his/her Father to serve the humanity by giving his head......prepare and send their children to fight with the enemy and achieve martyrdom......and also lay down their own life for others........................it is just hypocrite who want to approve their own conduct by giving mis-interpreted examples of GuruJi. das

I'm sure that most of us has already seen this, but for those who haven't please have a look: http://www.meat.org/

Thanks Kam1825 veerji for the information!!

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ke Fateh, 1. Everyone must have heard that Ramayan was written by Balmik in Satyug and therefore it was written far before it actually happened. It was because of the tap/bhagti that Balmik did. This is what almost all Sants told us in their deewans. 2. Now, according to some other sources, Valmiki was the person in whose Ashram Luv and Kush (Ram Ji's sons) were born and learns arms training from Valmiki. Now, my question is how the second statement could be true. Is it possible that another person of Balmik name exists during the Luv, Kush period. It is due to the 2nd point that many Hindus and Sikhs think that Ramayan actually never happened, it is just a story. Does, anybody know about these 2 Balmiks? das

As everyone knows that Guru Nanak Dev Ji travelled to 7 deeps and 9 khands.......so, naturally Guru Nanak Dev Ji visited North America also.....but till date we are unable to find any historic place in North America related to Guru Nanak Dev Ji........does anybody has any information regarding this...........the one thing for sure is that Guru Nanak Dev does visit 7 deeps and North America is one of them. Does anybody has any information regarding this?

another Bhai Lal Ji recording in 2007: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ldWpJkgOGkI&amp http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMxPNXt96U http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OG010Ow5Qoo do you have another shabad.....if yes, please upload the links

Matheen, I've heard of suleman tape and I am also aware that all Mahapurash instructs us not to eat meat. Regarding the jathka, it seems to be wrong in the first instance but I might be wrong.......but in order to accept this as right thing (for anyone) I need something from the mentioned Mahapurashs.......or else a sakhi where it states that 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th Gurus ordered their Sikhs to do this regularly.........I fully support that there might have some instances where Guru Ji might have done that (but for a reason)......and I want to know the reason why we (who are not brahmgyani) are still doing that: - Is it GuruJi who instructed us? - or is it something Guru Ji did and we started following it every year? - Spiritual signifiance of chatka in terms of how Guru Ji stated it? that the reason I am requesting for complete sakhis where it was instructed to continue this chatka every year. das

I read your reply Neo and it seems like it defines when this tradition was started and who started and the details of how to do jhatka.....but nowhere I can find the incidence/sakhi where and when Satguru Hargobind Singh Ji started this tradition and ordered the sangat to follow this regularly......kindly, send the details link also. Secondly, the material that you posted is from Niddar Singh....... this is what I found from: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sarb_Loh_Granth "Niddar Singh's 'propaganda' The self-proclaimed leader of the Buddha Dal in UK, Niddar Singh, has done 'propaganda' for several years claiming that this granth was to be treated as a Bir Rass Granth, thus the tradition of jhatka (killing in one blow) was associated with it. Niddar Singh's lack of scriptual education was exposed by the fact that the Akhand Paath of Sarbloh Granth was conducted in a completely Vaishnavite (vegetarian) manner." Do you happen to have something from previous Sants: Sant Nand Singh Ji, Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji, Sant Attar Singh Ji, Sant Karam Singh Ji Hotimardan wale?? Again, I am looking for the COMPLETE sakhi in which 6th patshah Satguru Hargobind Singh Ji started and ordered the Sikhs to continue this practice.......and also the sakhis where 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th Guru Ji did follow this tradition regularly. Please don't think that I'm just sticking on my point.....I'm trying to understand the real picture instead of just trusting so called modern scholars........according to modern scholars: Bhai Bala did not exist, they do NOT respect Bhai Gurdas etc. etc.. das

I understand that flesh thing is NOT black and white......... even we are made of flesh, the water we drink does has some living bacteria, the curd/yogurt which is served in almost every Gurdwara is prepared by the help of a bacteria........the air we breath does contain living bacteria etc. etc.......all this is explained in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So, I understand that there is no use of always talking of vegetarian and related stuff but doing nothing.......but still I would like to understand the reason behind the chatka.......may Neo, and other senior members can help me to understand the following: - What is the spiritual signifinance of chatka? - When it originally started? Simply, saying that it was started from Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time is NOT a complete answer. What is the Sakhi related to it? das

It's basic question but I do not know, so could someone please let me know: 1. Who is Nirmale? What does one needs to be Nirmale? I was under the impression that Bhai Dya Singh samparda is called Nirmale. 2. Same question for Upsampardas and other Sampardas? das

- Firstly, Goat eat grass because its his food; grass eats sun because its his food. But goat is neither the food of Shasters nor the food of a Sikh. - Secondly, from background means is what was the grass in its previous life and what Karma it did in its previous life that forces it to be grass and be eaten by goat and vice-versa. - Thirdly, could you please explain in detail the exact situation or Sakhi regarding when Guru Gobind Singh Ji ordered for chatka of goat? The only context I have heard (I am NOT sure whether this is true or not) is when our Fauj was fighting with Mugals and for 40 straight days they went without food. At this 2 muslim sewadars offered goats and said his is the only thing they have. At this GuruJi ordered their army to have this by chatka. I am NOT sure if this sakhi is true or not. But lets suppose if this is true and this is the ONLY reason behind today's chatka, then is it fair to do this today as we doNOT have that circumstances. Do you happen to know another Sakhi where Guru Ji ordered to chatka REGULARLY. Guru Ji might have ordered this ONCE in order to give mukti to that goat, but please enlighten us with the sakhi where Guru Ji allowed/ordered the chatka to take place regularly and do tilak of Shastars every year?? - Fourthly, when I was young I heard that if big talwar needs to be taken outside its cover then it needs khoon BUT most of the old persons used to cut their finger so that the khoon can be placed on the talwar. But nowhere I have heard that khoon should be of the animal. Again, I don't know whether this is true or not, this is something one knows from very old people who used to retain big talwars. - If Guru Gobind Singh killed any animal in hunting or ordered their Sikhs to do hunting then it means that Guru Ji was providing Mukti to that animal. I have NOT heard Guru asking us to do chatka every year and tilak of shasters with goat's khoon. I might be misinformed, but could you please explain what is achieved spiritually through chatka?? I also understand that in the past there was bali provided of various animals in order to make Demi-Gods happy, but what is the reason here? We fully understand that whatever happens is the GOD's WILL but still we can enquire about what is the actual purpose of chatka. I am just trying to understand the core reason behind all this. Does anyone has any recorded Bachans (against or in favour) from Sants like: Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji (Rara Sahib), Sant Attar Singh Ji (Reru Sahib), Sant Karam Singh Ji (Hotimardan Wale), Sant Nand Singh Ji (Nanaksar Wale)? das

if I am not wrong, then this chatka does NOT take place in the main Gurdwara.......it takes place in some Nihang Gurdwara near Main Gurdwara Sahib...........may be this is the reason that many Mahapurashs has not spoken about it because most of the time Mahapurashs visit main Gurdwara Sahib.......baki Mahapurakh diyian te Mahapurakh he janan....I don't know. Moreover, "Maha Kharag Singh" could you please mention any reference that this chatka is a continuing practice since Guru Gobind Singh Jis time WITH HIS approval. If something was occuring since Guru Jis time (e.g murders, injustice etc.) it does NOT mean that it was allowed practice......something can be said to be ok ONLY if GURU Ji has approved or ordered it. e.g Guru Ji did hunting (to udhar some jeev atma) but this does NOT mean it is approved and ok practice for us to do hunting.

One of my friend who knows a lot about chatka tradition in Hazoor Sahib says that due to more resistance this year this chatka was not allowed. I think its a good news!!

unbreakable, I do NOT see any Sub-Gurus......there does NOT exist any Sub-Gurus....why don't we understand that there is NO categories of Guru. e.g The main source of water is sea. But sea water is NOT fit for human consumption because our internal organs are not fit to digest it. BUT when the Same sea water evaporates and then comes down in the form of rain; it becomes fit for human consumption. Now, here water is same; it's just following some rules/process in this universe. Here sea water is the source and ultimately rain water again goes into sea. There are lot many Names of GOD but ONLY those are capable to give liberation that are given by Guru/Mahapurakh/Sant and jugti naal uus Naam da abyaas kita jave. "Waheguru" is Gur-Mantar. It is also known as "Naam", "Gur-Shabad": vaahiguroo guramanthr hai jap houmai khoee| Why are we stuck in what is what......if we think that the highest and only Naam is Gur-Mantar then no problem with this.....but the question is do we practice highest Naam with every Saas/breath?? If NOT then we are NOT fully convinced that Gurmantar is highest, we are just saying it in words. I recall one sakhi in which a person came to Guru Gobind Singh Ji to receive Updesh/Naam from Guru Gobind Singh Ji. When he reached GuruJi, GuruJi was busy is something and GuruJi intensionally said to the seeker "Pare Hat" (Get aside), the seeker was so happy with GuruJi bachan; he started the abhyaas of "Pare Hat" and after some time he got very high spiritual level. Then one Sikh asks Guru Gobind Singh that there is a mad person who all the day repeats "Pate Hat" and then GuruJi explained the whole thing to His Sikhs that "Pat Hat" faker has reached high spiritual stage. Silence, Nobody said that Guru Ji cannot give jugti. HE is the giver of everything. But we cannot deny the importance of Sants....infact we are NOT saying this......Guru Granth Sahib Ji has instructed us to do so. e.g 1. In a school there is a Principal and under the Principal there are various teachers who impacts us knoweldge. Here Principal is the one who has appointed all the teachers for students. Now, here can we say that principal is not capable of imparting knowledge to students??? I think NO, we canNOT say this. It is just a rule that has been established. 2. As we all know that GOD has created Brahma, Vishnu, and Shivji for creation, preservation, and destruction of this universe. And then there are 33 crore devtas. Now, here can we question why GOD created devte even though HE does have the capacity/capability to do everything. It is just the rule that HE created and we SHOULD follow whatsoever rules HE created.

I Disagree with "you can only get to God, through a human Guru". In Sikhism Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Guru. There is NO need for human Guru. But at the same time in Sikhism there is a need for Sant. I also Disagree with the brothers and sisters who say to other religions "they are false. One can ONLY achieve salvation/liberation through Guru Granth Sahib Ji". There are many many souls who got liberated before Guru Granth Sahib Ji was formally created. They get liberation through their Guru (physically present as human body). Actually, there is NO word "Human Guru"........ Guru is One who is already merged with GOD and knows very well how to reach HIM. When anyone merges with GOD, then NO longer he is Human.....He becomes GOD even though his body is made up of 5 elements and looks like human. So, we cannot say he is "Human Guru"..........there are NO categories of Guru.......Guru is One......GOD is One.......infact Guru and GOD is One. ਵੈਸਾਖੁ ਸੁਹਾਵਾ ਤਾਂ ਲਗੈ ਜਾ ਸੰਤੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥ The month of Vaisaakh is beautiful and pleasant, when the Saint causes me to meet the Lord. ||3|| ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸੁ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਾਗੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਕਰਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਧੂਰੇ ॥੪॥੫॥ Nanak, Your slave, begs for this happiness: let me be the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||4||5|| (ਪੰਨਾ 13, ਸਤਰ 19) ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਧੇਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ In the Society of the Saints, the Guru is found. He is the Treasure of Liberation, the Source of all good fortune. ||1||Pause|| (ਪੰਨਾ 18, ਸਤਰ 12) ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਸੰਤ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਘੜੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ The Saintly Guru has united me with the All-knowing and All-seeing Lord. (ਪੰਨਾ 175, ਸਤਰ 12)

In Sikhism Naam should be given by one of the Panj Payars during Amrit Sanchar. But the condition is that Payara should have already travelled and reached the destination i.e GOD. And the one who reaches destination and is One with GOD is called Brahmgyani. How could someone who has NOT reached GOD can guide us the procedure of reaching GOD. In initial days there were at-least one Brahmgyani as Panj Payars but these days this is NOT true. ਰਾਮੁ ਜੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੋ ਸੰਤੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੧੬੪॥ The Lord is the Giver of liberation, and the Saint inspires us to chant the Naam. ||164|| (ਪੰਨਾ 1373, ਸਤਰ 6) Here Brahmgyani is the TRUE Brahmgyani and not just a person. These days we as a people use Brahmgyani word for some kathakar/keetanea or even for a normal person who has some high spiritual level. Brahmgyani is above ALL spiritual levels. Due to our mind set we cannot understand the Brahmgyani.

Is there a GOD? Why we are not able to see GOD? How to see GOD? Lot many people among us ask this question to our elders or some times to ourselves: "Is there a GOD or some power?" Our elders answer "Yes, there is a GOD and it resides within us. HE is very near to us". But we are not willing to accept this because in this age of science we need proof. We say if there is GOD then why cannot we see/touch/feel/experience HIM with our senses? But do we really think this is a logical question from a so called modern man? Ask yourself. The man who has invented airplanes, submarines, rockets to reach Moon and now trying to achieve time machine knows very well that any thing in this universe can be solved by the help of a formula or technique. Airplanes travel in air, ships travel in water with such a weight just because of a formula. Everything in this Universe is bond with some rules/principals. Our scientists all the time are trying to crack different formulas in order to invent one more sophisticated machine. But when the topic of GOD comes we simply say "There is no GOD". Is this answer based on our hard work that we had put in order to understand GOD? Have we ever tried the formula to feel GOD? Have we ever listened or tried to understand from the experience of another person who had already felt GOD? Some examples: 1. If we tell a child that butter and ghee is hidden inside milk. Will the child believe us? Can we show them hidden butter in milk? The answer is NO. We cannot but using a formula we can prove it. We can show them the technique to extract butter from milk. The child can learn the technique and if implemented he will be able to see butter coming out of milk. So, the key here is to follow the technique and then experience instead of just saying there is no butter inside the milk as I cannot feel/see/experience it. 2. If we show a Bohar (Bayan) tree's seed to a child and tell him that a huge tree will be grown out of this seed. What will be the answer of this child? The child will say NO I do not believe and if there is tree within this seed then show me. Now, we try to convince the child that there is a tree within the seed, we just need to sow it in soil and water it everyday then one day (after many years) it will become a huge bohar tree. The child BELIEVES us and every day waters the seed. After many years a seed becomes a huge tree. Now, what's the key here? The child needs to believe the one who has already seen seed growing into huge tree and then following the technique told by his mentor that child is also able to understand the concept. Here notice that sometimes it takes time to understand the concept. It takes time. 3. Eyes are very near to us and by which we see this world. Are we able to see our eyes without a mirror? Can we say that our eyes do not exist even though we are seeing this world with our eyes? The answer is no. We require a mirror in order to see our eyes. Now, what are the requirements of the mirror if we want to see our eyes within it? First: The mirror should NOT be opposite/putha. Second: It should be stand still. Third: It should be clean. It does not matter how long we try to see our eyes in mirror; whenever the mirror fulfills the 3 conditions we will be able to see our eyes in it. Learning from the above examples, we can derive the following: 1. We need to believe Vedas/Granths who are explaining GOD and we should also listen to Sants/Mahapurashs who are already One with HIM. We just have to believe in Vedas/Granths and follow the techniques defined in Granths to experience GOD. 2. Our normal eyes cannot see HIM without the aid of mirror. Our Mirror is our Mann. The requirements of Mann are: It should be Clean and Ekagar. And once these 2 requirements are fulfilled our GURU will provide us Brahmgyan which in turn will enable us to see HIM in our Mann. 3. It does not matter how long we have been trying to experience GOD. Experiencing GOD is not proportional to time. It is dependent only whether our Mann fulfills the required conditions. Now, we understood that we are NOT able to see GOD even though HE is very near to us because of our Mann’s faults. Our Mann’s faults are due to Maya (not only money). Maya has 3 powers (Mal, Vikhsep, Avaran) due to which we cannot see GOD. ਕਹਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਹਾਥ ਪੈ ਨੇਰੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੧॥ Says Ravi Daas, the Lord is nearer than our own hands and feet. Whatever will be, will be. ||4||1|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 658, Line 2) ਸੋ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਬਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਪਨਿ ਨਿਆਈ ॥੩॥੫॥ He dwells deep within your inner self, O Nanak, like the image in a mirror. ||3||5|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 632, Line 12) ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਆਰਸੀ ਕੋਈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਖੈ ॥ This mind is a mirror; how rare are those who, as Gurmukh, see themselves in it. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 115, Line 3) ਅੰਤਰ ਆਤਮੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾ ਮੁਹਤਾਜੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੭॥ Within your innermost self, you do not recognize God, and you compromise yourself for the sake of Maya. ||7|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 435, Line 3) ਭਾਂਭੀਰੀ ਕੇ ਪਾਤ ਪਰਦੋ ਬਿਨੁ ਪੇਖੇ ਦੂਰਾਇਓ ॥੩॥ There is a veil between us, like the wings of a butterfly; without being able to see Him, He seems so far away. ||3|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 624, Line 11) ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਰਹੀ ਬਿਆਪਿ ॥ The three-phased Maya infects all. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 1145, Line 4) ਏਹ ਤ੍ਰਿਗੁਣ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਗਤੁ ਭੁਲਾਇਆ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਕਾ ਸਹਸਾ ॥ This three-phased Maya has deluded the whole world into cynicism about death and birth. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 1257, Line 16) Details of problems of Mann OR 3 Powers of Maya: ================================= Actually, Maya has 3 powers due to which our Mann cannot see GOD: 1. Mal: Due to previous and this birth's bad deeds Mann gets attracted to bad deeds and questions the existence of GOD. It is a power which introduces illusion. e.g this is world. This power can be overcome through good deeds without asking anything in return. The best thing is to do “Satsang†in order to remove dirt from our Mann. ਮਾਇਆ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੂੜ ਭਏ ਅਭਾਗੀ ਜਿਨ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਹ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ The filth of Maya clings to them, and they become unfortunate fools - they do not love the Lord's Name. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 443, Line 12) ਸਗਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਮਹਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਿਰਿਆ ॥ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਲੁ ਹਿਰਿਆ ॥ Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji – Page 266, Line 13) 2. Vikhsep: It is a power due to which different types of furne/thoughts rise in Mann and gives dukh. e.g Janam, maran, dukh, sukh etc. Because of these thoughts Maan never stay (No Ekagar). It can be overcome by remembering HIM (RAAB de Bhagti). ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਪਵਹਿ ਖਿਆਲੀ ॥ You are distracted by thoughts of Maya and worldly attachment. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 993, Line 8) ਝੂਠੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਬਾਧਿਆ ਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਮਤ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੩॥੩॥੨੫॥ The false Maya has bound the whole world, but I have obtained peace, chanting the Name of the Lord. ||3||3||25|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 482, Line 10) 3. Avaran: It is power which hides the original thing which is GOD. It does not allow us to see the reality.e.g- just like when someone puts a bucket upside down on lit candle, room which had light before is dark now because of bucket which is put upside down. It can be overcome only through Brahmgyan which is the last stage to meet GOD. ਦਿਸਟਿ ਬਿਕਾਰੀ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਭਾਗੀ ਐਸਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੨॥ Visions of corruption, vice and evil-mindedness run away. Such is the spiritual wisdom of God. ||2|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 1329, Line 7) ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਭਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥ Kabeer, my mind is cooled and soothed; I have become God-conscious. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji Page 1373, Line 17) ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਵਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਰੀਐ ਰੇ ॥ ਘੂਮਨ ਘੇਰ ਅਗਾਹ ਗਾਖਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਰੀਐ ਰੇ ॥੨॥ God has created Maya of the three qualities; tell me, how can it be crossed over? The whirlpool is awesome and unfathomable; only through the Word of the Guru's Shabad is one carried across. ||2|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 404, Line 2)

here are some more details Xylitol: 4 Steps in All Religions: Spiritual Journey Q: What is our aim of human life? A: To join GOD from whom we are separated. Or say to merge with GOD. Q. What is the purpose of any religion/school? A: To guide us in the spiritual journey. Q. What is the basic requirement to meet GOD? A. Knowledge/Gyan which could be achieved through Naam and Guru. But before that our mind/mann should be clean and ikargar. e.g Let's say that we want to put Lioness Milk in a Gold utensil (because lioness milk can only be retained in Gold vessel). But that Gold utensil is already filled with poison. Then, how could we put Milk in Gold Utensil? 1. Throw away the existing poison and stop pouring more poison into utensil. This is Manjle Shariat where we try to stop putting poison (kurehats) in the utensil (our mann). 2. Start cleaning the utensil with various techniques depending upon the current situation of the utensil. This is Manje Trikat where we try to clean and ikargar our mann by various techniques given by Brahmgyani according to our current condition of mann. 3. After cleaning the utensil, the utensil becomes eligible to retain the lioness Milk. After we inspect if the utensil is totally cleaned we pour the milk in the utensil. This is Manjle Marfat where GuruJi pours Gyan in our mann and we understand the actual meaning of Nirgun GOD and understand HIM and can see HIM everywhere. 4. Milk resides within utensil and hence achieves the target. This is Manjle Hakikar where Jev and GOD becomes One and Jev fulfills the mission of human life. The following are the 4 steps in every religion or in other words the following are the 4 steps in one’s spiritual journey. Right now, we are separated from GOD and we cannot comprehend HIM because our mann is very dirty. Manjle Shariat: 1st step (Primary class) ---------------------------------------------- This is the first step in spiritual journey. We need to take admission in some school if we want to get Phd degree. A degree cannot be obtained directly without joining a school. The purpose of this step is basically to train our mind to keep distance from various kurehats and be firm on rehat. A human can learn something only if he/she does that regularly and within proper discipline. So, in Sikhism this is defined as: "Khande Bate Da Amrit" + 5 banis da path + Satsang karna. This helps us to move away from kurehats and helps to shud/refine our mann. In Hindus: 3 santhea are the Shariat and in Muslims 5 Namajs is the Shariat. ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮਹਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ Without the Guru, the Mansion of the Lord's Presence is not found, and the Naam is not obtained. (ਪੰਨਾ 30, ਸਤਰ 17) ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no devotional worship. (ਪੰਨਾ 31, ਸਤਰ 17) ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਉ ਘਰ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ Without the Guru, this pollution is not removed. Without the Lord, how can there be any homecoming? (ਪੰਨਾ 18, ਸਤਰ 16) ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ ॥੫॥ Without the Guru, liberation is not attained, and the double-mindedness of Maya does not go away. ||5|| (ਪੰਨਾ 67, ਸਤਰ 3) Manjle Trikat: 2nd Step (10th class) ------------------------------------------ While using the first step one's mind starts becoming shud by avoiding the kurehats. But still mind needs more refinement or cleanliness. This can be achieved ONLY by "Naam Abyaas†through Brahmgyani. There are various techniques to do Naam Abyaas which needs to be given ONLY by a Brahmgyani according to one's caliber. Naam Abyaas without guidance (through Guru or Brahmgyani) does NOT yield required results. It's NOT that there will be no good results; it's that it will NOT be that effective. If you happen NOT to know any True Brahmgyani, then do Ardas to GuruJi with 100% devotion and faith to show you required technique and GuruJi will guide you in some way (sometimes in dreams, sometimes other ways). "Naam Abyaas" helps us to totally clean our mind from ALL impurities. The various techniques for Naam Abyaas are: • Baikri Bani (When one recites naam with tongue, lips, and thoughts), • Madhma Bani (When one recites naam in throat without moving lips, just with the thoughts), • Pasanti Bani (When one recites naam in heart and with thoughts), • Para Bani (When one recites naam in Navel without moving tongue and with the thoughts), • Saas-Saas (Receiting Naam with every breath). But these techniques MUST be given by Brahmgyani/Guru. Do NOT worry about the techniques and get flowed away with this because once we reach this stage Guru will automatically do this. ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗਏ ਮਸਕਤਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥ Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows. (ਪੰਨਾ 8, ਸਤਰ 12) ਕਲ ਮੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨਾਮ ਤੇ ਪਾਵਤ ਗੁਰੁ ਯਹ ਭੇਦੁ ਬਤਾਵੈ ॥ In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, liberation comes from the Naam. The Guru has revealed this secret. (ਪੰਨਾ 831, ਸਤਰ 6) ਮਨਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਤਾ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥ Meditating on the Naam with a pure mind, the Door of Liberation is found. ||2|| (ਪੰਨਾ 33, ਸਤਰ 18) ਕਬੀਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਉ ਦੁਇ ਭਲੇ ਏਕੁ ਸੰਤੁ ਇਕੁ ਰਾਮੁ ॥ Kabeer, it is good to perform selfless service for two – the Saints and the Lord. ਰਾਮੁ ਜੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੋ ਸੰਤੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੧੬੪॥ The Lord is the Giver of liberation, and the Saint inspires us to chant the Naam. ||164|| (ਪੰਨਾ 1373, ਸਤਰ 6) Manjle Marfat: 3rd Step (Bachelors degree) -------------------------------------------------- It is knowledge of Atama (Spirit). In this step one understands the Nirgun RAAB. In order words one gets an eye to see Nirgun RAAB. Without totally cleaned and Ikagar maan we cannot comprehend GOD. Right now, we only say in words only that GOD is Nirgun by reading Granths but in real we are NOT able to see GOD in everyone (living and non-living things). GOD is sarbvapak/present everywhere e.g We cannot see our face clearly in dirty mirror. The mirror needs to be steady and clean if we want to see ourselves in mirror. In this step (Manjle Marfat) we get the actual real knowledge/Gyan of RAAB which is required to meet GOD. Without Guru Gyan is NOT possible and without Gyan Mukti is NOT possible. ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਤਤੁ ਬੁਧਿ ॥ In the remembrance of God are knowledge, meditation and the essence of wisdom. (ਪੰਨਾ 262, ਸਤਰ 17) ਮਤਿ ਤਤੁ ਗਿਆਨੰ ਕਲਿਆਣ ਨਿਧਾਨੰ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਮਨਿ ਰਮਣੰ ॥੨॥ The intellect receives the treasure, the knowledge of reality and supreme bliss, by repeating the Lord's Name in the mind. ||2|| (ਪੰਨਾ 505, ਸਤਰ 14) ਮਨੁ ਕੁੰਚਰੁ ਪੀਲਕੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਕੁੰਡਾ ਜਹ ਖਿੰਚੇ ਤਹ ਜਾਇ ॥ The mind is the elephant, the Guru is the elephant-driver, and knowledge is the whip. Wherever the Guru drives the mind, it goes. (ਪੰਨਾ 516, ਸਤਰ 18) ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡੁ ਬਲਾਇਆ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਅੰਧੇਰਾ ਜਾਇ ॥੨॥ The Guru has lit the brilliant light of spiritual wisdom, and the darkness of ignorance has been dispelled. ||2|| (ਪੰਨਾ 29, ਸਤਰ 6) ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨਾਮਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥ Through the spiritual wisdom of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the Gurmukh is liberated. (ਪੰਨਾ 117, ਸਤਰ 5) Manjle Hakikat: 4th Step (Phd degree) -------------------------------------------- This is the last step in one's spiritual journey. In this step jev merges with GOD. There is NO difference between GOD and jev in this stage. ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਮੇਲੇ ਨ ਵਿਛੁੜੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ O Nanak, those who are united with Him shall not be separated again. They merge imperceptibly into God. ||1|| (ਪੰਨਾ 88, ਸਤਰ 12)

A lot of this has already been discussed on this forum. But here is the short version: Let's say this: - Why we are here on earth? What is the purpose of our birth? Answer: In order to be one with GOD. We are seperated from GOD and during this birth we are given the opportunity to meet HIM, otherwise wander in 84 lakh joonis. - How can we meet GOD? Answer: By doing 3 things: Simran, Dhayan, and Gyan. But these 3 things does NOT get fruit unless you have Guru. Gyan is the last stage of spiritual level and can ONLY be given by Guru. - Who is Guru? Answer: Who is already one with GOD and knows the path to GOD. In Sikhism "Guru Granth Sahib Ji" is our Guru and in order to accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji our Guru, one needs to take SanskarAmrit/Khanda Bate da Amrit. ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ ॥੫॥ Without the Guru, liberation is not attained, and the double-mindedness of Maya does not go away. ||5|| ਪੰਨਾ 67, ਸਤਰ 3 2nd way to understand: If a child wants to get a Phd degree, then firstly he/she needs to get admission in any school starting from primary class. The child canNOT directly get Phd degree without going through initial classes. In spiritual world (any religion), there are 4 steps on the path to GOD: Manjle Shariat: This is the first step. In Sikhism it is taking Khanda Bate da Amrit and regularly doing path of 5 banis. This is kind of primary class if we want to get a degree. In Muslims, there are 5 namaj. In Hindus, there are 3 sandea. Manjle Trikat: Naam Abyaas through Brahmgyani. Manjle Marfat: It is knowledge of Atama (Spirit). In this step one understands the Nirgun RAAB. In order words one gets an eye to see Nirgun RAAB. Manjle Hakikat: In this step Jev merges into GOD. Moreover, there are 3 kind of Amrit: Khanda Bate da Amrit (Sanskar Amrit), Naam Amrit, Gyan Amrit. Here Sanskar Amrit is the pre-requiste for other Amrit.