chatanga1

I wanted to add a little more to this.  The Creator has ordained that semen is only produced in the male human. The male in this story was so besotted with this woman that he totally forgot the "Hukum" of our Creator. The woman told him a lie that was against the Creators "vidhi" but because of his desire for her, he accepted her word over that of "Vidhata". So not only was the man's infatuation great, but so great to the point that he forgot his Dharam.
 

In this Charitar, the actions of the 2 women are representing the Queen in the original story.
Firstly Jag Jot Mati has illicit relations with the King on her mind, as the Queen did with her stepson.
Secondly Chitarkala on being refused by the King, has revenge on her mind as the Queen did with her stepson.
The wrapping up of a King in a rug and being stood against the wall of the house could represent the inability of the King to manouvere/him being restricted in every way. The rug  may actually be his Queen. Is the rug a strait-jacket?
The throwing of the food into the sack IMO represents an easy task for the husband to perform so Jag Mati can then lavish praise on him for being so skillful. Here she is massaging his ego from his accomplishment of an easy task.

Then she calls him a King which he doesn't understand but again flatters him by saying that she is under his full control at all times. Again here she is using flattery to which the husband is responsive.
This is again relating to the original story where the Queen having illicit relations in mind and revenge in her heart, by use of her flattery and ego-boosting talk is keeping the King from using his intellect to question her properly.
 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/kama/kama105.htm
 
This "messenger/go-between/middleman" is also mentioned in the Kamasutra. His/her qualities are given as:
 
A messenger should possess the following qualities:
Skilfulness Boldness Knowledge of the intention of men by their outward signs Absence of confusion, i.e. no shyness Knowledge of the exact meaning of what others do or say Good manners Knowledge of appropriate times and places for doing different things Ingenuity in business Quick comprehension Quick application of remedies, i.e. quick and ready resources  
 

Guru Sahib also got rid of the "masand" system - a go-between the Guru and the Sikhs, after they starting doing manmarjia.

Can't find under that title or author on PDL.
 

In this tale, there is the act of stepping on someones head and in the most recent discussion there is the act of trying to get the man to pass through the womans legs. Both signify the same thing.

Good point. Also one thing here is that the girl, like the Princess was happy or willing to establish relations with a man of their own age.

All these words mean semen bro.

We can learn a very important lesson from the above. If someone has made a mistake, we should never humiliate the person (by exposing his weakness/misdeed) in front of other people. One must try to discuss these matters in private. Hiding others misdeeds (upto a certain extend) and not laughing at them, must be an integral part of a Sikh's life.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Re-reading Charitar 21 again, i can see why the theme has taken the way it did. The King Chitar Sen specifically asks his Minister to narrate a story about wise men
 
ਰੀਝ ਰਾਇ ਐਸੇ ਕਹ੍ਯੋ ਬਚਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰਿਯਨ ਸੰਗ ॥
Then he asked the Minster to narrate the Chritars
 
ਪੁਰਖ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਨ ਚਤੁਰਨ ਚਰਿਤ ਮੋ ਸੋ ਕਰਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ॥੨॥
Of the wise men and the women -2
 
 

Good video. it woiuld be great to these videos with a good quality recording.

Yes, a paath which has duration of 7 days.

In the clip below, Gyani jee describes the deeper/spiritual meanings associated with the demons mentioned in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. These demons exist within the human and the battles rage in our minds.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Yes, a paath which has duration of 7 days.

Bhul chuk maaf

Dhandrianwala Vs Sant Gyani Jarnail Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale:
 
Bhul chuk maaf

What Justice could you possibly reap from Partition? 
Your reasoning is that Sikh girls being kidnapped and forcibly converted today  in Pakistan, is ok, because Muslim women left behind in East Panjab during partition were also forcibly converted to Sikhism? (By the way, sikh women were kidnapped and forcibly converted during partition as well.)
 we live in the 21st Century now....Well, at least we non-muslims do. 
Sikhs in Pakistan live peacefully there because when they're girls are kidnapped, and their temples demolished or taken over, they stay quiet, well aware of the fact that they're a vulnerable minority in an Islamic nation. 
 
As for your ridiculous assertions. Guru Gobind Singh didn't kill 5 people to form the Khalsa. The Masands were boiled alive and burned for their crimes against the people, which is well deserved. Go ahead, make a video. It'll just demostrate your ignorance. One would ought to know about a faith before criticizing it.
On the topic of Criticization, You take the above video, a video that highlights a problem, and brings to light a case of human rights violation as a criticism of Islam? How do you connect those two dots? Is it an insecurity? 
 
Lol, the shortcomings of our community? One only needs to read the Quran and the ahadith themselves to see the "lies".  Our community is prospering one way or another. Sikhs in the west have it easier. We tend to be more educated and financially secure, we ASSIMILATE quite easily due to our Liberal philosophy and outlook as a community. We gain more converts than we lose. Islam is losing quite a lot to Atheism and rationality itself. Most Sikhs that leave their faith are ones who have become Atheists/agnostics.  Here in the west, we tend to grow due to our ideals and compatible principles. 
 
As a community, we don't look towards converting more individuals to boast. 
The only person playing the victim card is you, as usual. That's kind of established now. 
The condoning of Wife-beating, sex slaves, lashing adulterers, and the laws regarding rape. None of those are compatible with the moral code shared by the rest of the world.
 
Thankfully, the more your people move into the west, the more your faith itself will begin to deteriorate, as the West secularizes all people who assimilate within it. 
 
 

What questions are unanswered?

Absolutely
 

Do you mean after 1699? or during the period of the gurus? There are famous Sikhs who converted from Islam, during the times of Satgurus.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

https://www.pothiseva.net/single-post/2016/12/14/Damdama-Sahib-as-a-centre-for-the-creation-of-Gurmukhi-manuscripts
 
The following is an excerpt from Giani Balwant Singh Kothaguru's book on the Nirmala Sikhs under the section "Damdami Gurmukhi Likhaareeaa Di Taksal"
 
The Damdami School of Gurmukhi Calligraphy
(from Nirmal Panth Di Gaurav Gatha – Giani Balwant Singh Kotha Guru)
 
 

 
A late 19th century lithographed Guru Granth Sahib which has the script known as "Damdami", developed and perfected by the scribes of Damdama Sahib.

Guru Ki Kanshi  (Damdama Sahib, Bathinda) was the centre of Gurbani
Calligraphy alongside the teaching of Gurbani Santhia and Arth. Guru
Gobind Singh Ji started the tradition of ‘Likhaee’ in Guru Kanshi with
the writing of the Damdami Bir. Although the calligraphy of Gurmukhi
Granths took place at many other places aswell, the writing style of
Damdami Gurmukhi was known as uniquely elegant and clear. The training
to become a ‘Likhari’ i.e. a calligrapher was all given at Guru Ki
Kanshi. The techniques of writing each Gurmukhi letter individually in
the Damdami Script were expertly taught to the students. In particular
the way of looping and forming the letters in the Damdami style to
make them stand out from other Gurmukhi scripts. For example:

Oorra = in the shape of a peacock’s egg
Airraa = in shape of a horse’s bridle
Haaha = in the shape of a drum barrel
Kakkaa = in the shape of a pied wagtail’s eye
 
In this manner each letter was taught in a specific way. The letters
of the Damdami Script were so clear that readers had no difficulties
in identifying them due to their uniformity and structure. Kashmiri
paper was used by the Damdami calligraphers. To make the paper
useable, it was first burnished using the back of shells, which made
the paper smooth enough to write upon. To make sure that the writing
was in straight lines, a simple but clever method was used. A wooden
frame would be made with string running across it, the same width
apart as would be needed for lines to write on. On those frames 10-15
sheets would be placed and weight would be applied on top.  Due to the
weight, an impression of the lines would form onto the paper.

The Damdami calligraphers also had methods to deal with ink going
through pages, or spelling mistakes.  A fixed amount of crushed shells
and glue were mixed with water and placed in a ‘sippi’ for some time.
Once ready this would
be spread over the spelling mistake (similar to modern Tipp-ex). After
this was dry, it was possible to write over the mistake. Correction
was also made utilizing turmeric, which formed a yellow correction
mixture.

Ink was prepared in the Guru Ki Kanshi itself rather then brought from
outside. Red Inks were also used made using mercuric
sulphide/cinnabar. In Granths such as Dasam Granth Sahib, where they
were used for titles, numbers, endings of chapters etc., however this
was not used in Adi Guru Granth Sahib manuscripts.
 
The skill of binding Sri Guru Granth Sahib volumes was taught at Guru
Ki Kanshi. Due to Guru Granth Sahib being a large volume, to make sure
Angs did not fall out of the Saroop, endbands were sewn into the
Saroop to make the binding extra strong. Alongside this Chola Sahibs
were also made to measure, which helped preserve the binding and give
the Granth a long life. Ramala Sahibs were sewn to size and hand made
stitching for decoration was also done here.

Chaur Sahibs made from peacock feathers were a speciality of Guru Ki
Kanshi. Sant Isher Singh ‘Munishar’ of Bunga Mastuana, (born at
village BhaiRupa, a great scholar of Vedanta) was a famed for his
skill of crafting these Chaur Sahibs which he donated to each Gurdwara
in the vicinity of Damdama Sahib.

It was astonishing seeing the range of activities not only taking
place at Guru Kanshi, but also being taught. All activities such as
teaching the manner of writing the Damdami script, making ink, making
‘hartaal’ (a substance with similar use to tipex), making Chaur Sahib,
preparing, sizing and burnishing paper, making Rumala Sahibs,
preparing the binding of Saroops, were of a higher level of quality
then the top education centres of the time such as Vikramshila,
Takshila, Varanasi etc.

The Nirmala saints played an integral role in keeping Gurbani
calligraphy alive. In those times where the Saints taught the
pronunciation and exegesis of Scripture, they taught calligraphy
alongside. Those who created original works were known as ‘Lekhak’ and
those who made copies of these original works were known as ‘Likaris’.
These likharis were great Saints, who were respected far and wide for
their skill.
 
Some famous Likharis:
 
1) Tapo-Nidhi Swami Bhagat Singh wrote 5 Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
2) Sant Wadhawa Singh of Lehra Khana (Bathinda) wrote 5 Saroops of Sri
Guru Granth Sahib. Sant Wadhawa Singh Ji used to write make Gutkas of
Jap Ji, Sukhmani and other Banis and hand them out to the
congregation.
3) Sant Mahant Hira Singh of Likhari Bunga (Damdama Sahib) was famed
for his clear and beautiful calligraphy. When the process of printing
Gurbani first started, out of all the different scripts (i.e. Damdami,
Kashmiri, Amritsari), the Damdami script was chosen, and Sant Hira
Singh’s written letters were used to base their printing on.
4) Sant Haiba Singh Gurusar Batindha
5) Sant Dal Singh Bhucho Kala
6) Sant Narain Singh Giani Sekhwa Wale
7) Mahant Vir Singh Daudhar
8) Mahant Gurbakash Singh of Bunga Likharia Damdama Sahib
9) Pandit Shyam Singh Mangwal
10) Sant Bala Singh Khadur Sahib
11) Pandit Nanu Singh
12) Mahant Jai Singh Dera Sada Singh
13) Sant Bhoop Singh
14) Sant Naudh Singh BhaiRupa
15) Mahant Mahna Singh BhaiRupa
16) Sant Aghar Singh Tutomazara
17) Mahant Pratap Singh Dera Chaunk BabaSahib Amritsar
18) Sant Bhagwan Singh Giani Dera Manuke
 

These peple after partition went to Pakistan. But there, there were no more functioning Gurdwaras that required their musical skills, so they left the profession to work in other places. The bare minority that did keep some kind of their musical heritage up weren't that good in terms of playing raag vidya and kirtan. Because it was a dying tradition and the Sikhs weren't coming back they turned to other ways to make a living.

The SGPC are a the legitimate heirs, or even the Singh Sabha in their evolving form. If the SGPC made these changes, why did the Singh Sabhas all over the world accept them? They could have refused. But when the maryada was being discussed the main people involved were the Singh Sabha people.
 
 
 
By using sensical reasoning you wipeout half of Guru's history. How could Guru Nanak have moved the Ka'aba? Made reethe, meethe? How could Guru Sahib have taken brought the Moosan back to life after his head had been chopped off? Sensical?
 
 
True love leads to blind faith. Bhai Lehna loved Guru Nanak so much, that when in broad daylight Guru Sahib said, "It is night, go to sleep," Bhai Lehna never questioned or thought about Guru Sahib's adesh, but accepted it straightaway. Blind faith is a big measure of love for the Guru.

The next line makes no sense from the english translation either.
 
"with my hands i will tear you off"...
 
I think it should translated as
 
"I will hold you here (as a aprisoner) all day and night.

Great stuff. Saw this on "Devon ke Dev - Mahadev."   That was an excellent series.
 
Maybe we should look at some of the gurmukhi lines to see if they have been translated properly.