Pheena

what you mean veer, that its not bani, but its shabads?? what is the difference?? Bani is bani, if its in a forum of one shabad or a contineum..no?

mr tsingh, u betta grow eyes onthe back of ur head, cuz sukhi is a 1st degree kalee belt at the vaylna chucks.

Each Moment as It Passes By John P. Van Mater Know thyself -- these words were carved above the entrance to the temple at Delphi. They epitomize the ancient view of man's situation. The Mysteries, the myriad paths offered by the various faiths, all were originally designed to assist man, first to learn about himself and his relations with the universe; second, to understand the crucial importance of disciplining and purifying his nature; and third, to seek to bring into his daily life more of the noble, intuitive, and impersonal influences of the higher nature or Self. All these steps finally led to the Greater Mysteries when in fact the grander Self was brought to birth in man -- the second birth. The Druids gathered in the open air under massive oaks and sought by progressive stages to achieve the birth of the spirit, as did older peoples before their time, in ancient megalithic or underground holy places. In the cave temples of India, the monasteries of China, Tibet, and Japan, the effort was to purify the soul and make it translucent to the influences of the inner god. The same goals were sought and achieved in the pre-classic Mediterranean, Asia Minor, and Egypt -- whether in a grotto or simple room, or in the "holy of holies" of some majestic pyramid, ziggurat, or other mighty testimonial to man's constructive genius. The Lesser Mysteries and the Greater, the former disciplining, informing, prepared the aspiring soul for the second birth; the latter an actual experience of what had previously been inculcated in theory. Large portions of the populace often participated in presentations of the drama and the other arts at such festivals as those at Eleusis, when all present were given the opportunity to know the cleansing (katharsis) evoked by tragedy. But only the few, and these with finger on lips, were witness to the genuine "baptism of fire"; fewer still were actually illuminated by the inner light, crowned with the solar splendor. These ideas may sound strange to us in these days when for the most part our realities are things and we feel we have yet to "prove" that man has a soul, much less is a soul. So far as an inner god is concerned, such a notion belongs to the remote and abstract world of metaphysics. Yet even in these prosaic times when anything grandiose is looked upon with suspicion, we are surrounded on every side by evidence of man's soul and also his divine nature. Who would doubt the truism that great men are large of soul and little men small of soul? Who will deny that shining down through the ages, illuminating the history of all peoples, have been transcendent men and women, wise, pure, unselfish? Were these freaks of nature, chance products of genes? Or are they examples of what all souls may one day achieve in the long course of many lives? Even the ordinary person can rise to the heights if the occasion draws it forth. The potential is there all the time, but we are asleep to it. It is valuable to examine the words Know Thyself. Man has myriad aspects, but in the context of this ancient injunction, clearly it is man the seeker, the yearner after a larger life, that is challenged. Our experiences in daily life eventually bring us to question the seeming injustices and impel us to search for explanations that will satisfy both mind and heart. It is this everyday man that the Greeks sought to awaken to his divine heritage. The word know has many sides to it. Which aspect of knowing best fills the injunction Know Thyself? There is book knowledge. We may read works on modern psychology and exclaim, "I know a great deal about man" -- when obviously our "knowledge" is largely an abstraction. Knowing intellectually is important; reading what the greatest human beings have written or said can be enlightening. But only through experience can we make this knowledge our own. Thus learning through countless experiences during many incarnations is not merely inescapable, it is irreplaceable. Yet because we have many, many lives behind us, it is not necessary to seek experience. We do not need to go out and rob and murder to know about these things. Life itself will bring us what belongs to us by karma out of the past. What we have neglected or misused will create by the law of cause and effect the opportunity for a learning experience that will tend to enlarge the nature precisely where needed. It may be that just witnessing or even reading about an event or situation will be enough to awaken in us a "knowing" or recalling of a wisdom earned ages ago. We thus have within a wide variety of knowings, insights, which in this incarnation need only to be reawakened in the conscious mind. Perhaps the most profound aspect of this topic is contained in the old adage "to know something, one must become it." Add to this the saying that one cannot see anything outside himself that he does not have within, and we have the basis for an absorbing and practical philosophy of life. We respond to greatness and beauty because we have within the elements of greatness and beauty. Sensitivity to the welfare of others, love not only for those nearest us, but for all beings, these characteristics indicate that within is a stored-up wisdom which transcends the experiences of this short lifetime, and which seems to reside in a more enduring part of us -- call it the inner Self. Know THYSELF -- but which self? We appear to be poised between the animal forces of our nature and the spiritual forces, and to vacillate between the two, now succumbing to acts or thoughts quite unbecoming to our humanness, and in another moment transcending ourselves splendidly and unselfishly. The Indian philosophers looked upon the complete human constitution as a chain of selves or monads linked together like the beads of a necklace by a "thread self" or sutraman. The latter, they asserted, gives to the whole compound entity its own unique individuality or essential characteristic, whatever its kingdom or station. Maybe the Delphic injunction means to come to know all our selves in the broadest sense. From another viewpoint, however, it is obviously the higher self that is referred to, in the spirit of the advice given by Polonius to his son, "to thine own self be true . . ." (Hamlet, I, 3, 78). He was obviously not referring to the selfish side of Laertes. In one way, man's personal nature represents his present, the arena of everyday consciousness. He has in former cycles been through the animal stage, so that his bestial leanings may be said to represent his past, still pulling upon him. And his future stands before him -- that larger, grander self into which he will one day grow. If we follow the reasoning of the ancients, this evolutionary course extends over many incarnations and is sometimes spoken of as the Path. On this Path there are innumerable awakenings or births of new awareness. At times understanding will flood our nature and so alter our outlook that we are never again the same. At other times insight glows for an interval, but fades in the confused welter of daily events. The old saying has it that "the Self can only be grasped in each moment as it passes." When we go out under the stars and gaze into the immensity of space, something marvelous stirs in us -- to which we cannot give labels and which cannot be confined in a human mind. The deep without us calls forth the deep within us -- indeed what is outside and what is inside? Our human consciousness cannot contain it, so no matter how many times we bring ourselves back to the scene, the magic moment, though evoked time and again, cannot be sustained. There is a paradox often repeated in literature about the Path -- that Way leading through the heart of man to the heart of the universe: in order to find the Self, one must lose the self. When we contemplate what must be the characteristics of the inner god, we can only guess that it must be, indeed is, universal, impersonal, all loving, all understanding, unselfish; qualities which our ordinary natures do not usually possess in abundance! Hence we must lose the self to find the Self. If the highest knowing is becoming, when we truly know our Self, we shall be it. For us in the here and now, there is "each moment as it passes." Every moment, coming as it does fresh and clean out of eternity, can be imprinted with the joy of service, with unselfish resolves that can affect the entire future course of evolution. In this sense, by using the will life can become a series of rebirths and our natures step by step less selfish and personal, more universal and compassionate.

Fixed.

By Sarah Belle Dougherty "Know ye not that ye are gods, and sons of the most high?" asked the Psalmist (82:6). If we feel bereft of the gods, it is because we have forgotten our true self. We sleep and dream dreams of matter, oblivious that gods are the very fabric of nature -- its source, life, and substance, for Divinity is formed of countless divine consciousnesses. Galaxies and stars, animals, plants, and minerals, all are physical expressions of conscious, evolving divinities, sons of the most high. Like human children, each carries impressed within it the blueprint of its parent, and has the promise and capacity in time to achieve divine adulthood and take its place beside its source. Humanity is one such host of spiritual entities. As gods, each of us is a universe in our own right. This is evident in our physical body, with its numberless lives: organs, cells, atoms, and particles. But as a microcosm we mirror and contain all the potentials of our parent-source. In its entirety our being extends from physical through ethereal, emotional, mental, and spiritual realms, until we arrive at a point human consciousness can no longer comprehend or imagine. To that point, and all beyond it, we give names like the Unknown, the Causeless Cause, That, Divinity, Parabrahma, Atman, Truth. Such terms do not represent an absolute ending or limit in nature, merely the limitation of our present understanding. The Psalmist continues, however, reminding us that "Ye shall die like Adam, and fall like one of the princes" (82:7). Clearly human beings are not immortal; we die and vanish from the physical world. Does this contradict our divine status? Because our awareness is centered in psychological aspects which die as the body does, we are out of touch with the more fundamental parts of us which are eternal and in constant contact with the All. From the human viewpoint, to be immortal is to pass consciously through death, maintaining complete continuity of awareness despite physical dissolution. This can be achieved only by centering awareness in facets of ourself that do not disintegrate when the body dies. With effort and discipline, people can reach this state -- though most of us choose to identify with the material realms and our more familiar, limited, mortal selfhood. Nevertheless, throughout time there have been those who have delved into the mysteries of their own being, and some of them have left reports of their findings. These records tell us that as we ascend toward the divine source, unity becomes increasingly evident. This connectedness and identity make possible not only communication, but communion and conscious union of each with all and of the human with the divine. Our mind, caught up in the magical panorama presented by the senses, fails to perceive this fundamental oneness. Those striving toward fuller understanding of reality transcend the senses and learn to traverse the whole spectrum of selfhood. They experience in ever fuller measure the states and entities which form the cosmos, because a part of them corresponds to each. Investigating the powers innate in man and cosmos is central to this process of understanding and growth. Among the objectives of the Theosophical Society since its early years, it is an invitation to "know yourself." By discovering the potentials within our own being, we realize and experience that life, perception, intelligence, free will -- in fact, all our characteristics -- have their counterparts on every plane of existence and in every entity. In this way our sympathies expand, our vision becomes more penetrating, and we are better able to control ourselves and the corresponding aspects of nature. To be more we must become more, yet part of us has already reached the goal. Hidden from us by the limitations we usually call ourself, it is ready at any time to help us enlarge our awareness and self-direct our evolution. For each of us is the temple of a living god now, at this very moment -- as the accounts of the Wise attest and our own investigations can prove.

what sukhi said, i wana know the name as well....u can't hold it out forever.

The thread was going no where except to bashing a certain group/jatha. Which isn't allowed.

it was moved to the Review section. We'll move it back once we've edited the unneccesary comments.

Best answer yet...Amen Brother. ..

Sect=Offshoot Sampardaya=lineage of a Saint im pretty sure thas it...but could be wrong.

^ i don't think that is the case with the majority. When a spiritual person considers himself a religious person, a change has occured within him that enables him to consider himself a religious person. A change that is very unlikely to occur in someone who follows the religious activities as a duty that has to be performed. An average religious person considers himeself Religious because he performs the duties/activities that are required of him to be a part of a religion. To him the simply the act of performin has given him the right to be religious. A spiritual person enjoys the act as if not a duty but a statement of his love . Altho in the case of a Relgious person, it is his destiny to become spiritual which is free of the robotic actions, but that is not the case with many, he is happy with the title of being called a religious.

loll you are obsessed with theories about everything. "sochai soch na hova-ee jay sochee lakh vaar" Your Knowledge will not sprout from thinking or your theories, but from Grace. Grace which is the by-product of Love. For Love no theories are required. Well im out for today, My Advice: Put more effort into bringing Love in your heart and Theorize less.

This has been discussed Many times, Use the Search function. Here are some Links, http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...topic.php?t=619 http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...hlight=raagmala http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...hlight=raagmala http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...hlight=raagmala

That is an absured conclusion. you took 2 lines and because they odn't have nanak in them it is wrong...riiiiiight. so the last line does not belong to Guru Nanak ji, is that what you are saying?? Here is the Entire Verse. dohrw ] dhoharaa || Dohraa: blu CutikE bMDn pry kCU n hoq aupwie ] bal shhuttakiou ba(n)dhhan parae kashhoo n hoth oupaae || My strength is exhausted, and I am in bondage; I cannot do anything at all. khu nwnk Ab Et hir gj ijau hohu shwie ]53] kahu naanak ab outt har gaj jio hohu sehaae ||53|| Says Nanak, now, the Lord is my Support; He will help me, as He did the elephant. ||53|| blu hoAw bMDn Cuty sBu ikCu hoq aupwie ] bal hoaa ba(n)dhhan shhuttae sabh kishh hoth oupaae || My strength has been restored, and my bonds have been broken; now, I can do everything. nwnk sBu ikCu qumrY hwQ mY qum hI hoq shwie ]54] naanak sabh kishh thumarai haathh mai thum hee hoth sehaae ||54|| Nanak: everything is in Your hands, Lord; You are my Helper and Support. ||54|| sMg sKw siB qij gey koaU n inbihE swiQ ] sa(n)g sakhaa sabh thaj geae kooo n nibehiou saathh || My associates and companions have all deserted me; no one remains with me. khu nwnk ieh ibpiq mY tyk eyk rGunwQ ]55] kahu naanak eih bipath mai ttaek eaek raghunaathh ||55|| Says Nanak, in this tragedy, the Lord alone is my Support. ||55|| nwmu rihE swDU rihE rihE guru goibMdu ] naam rehiou saadhhoo rehiou rehiou gur gobi(n)dh || The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains. khu nwnk ieh jgq mY ikn jipE gur mMqu ]56] kahu naanak eih jagath mai kin japiou gur ma(n)th ||56|| Says Nanak, how rare are those who chant the Guru's Mantra in this world. ||56|| rwm nwmu aur mY gihE jw kY sm nhI koie ] raam naam our mai gehiou jaa kai sam nehee koe || I have enshrined the Lord's Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it. ijh ismrq sMkt imtY drsu quhwro hoie ]57]1] jih simarath sa(n)katt mittai dharas thuhaaro hoe ||57||1|| Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||57||1||

("newAgeSikh" [quote) Yes, true both Ram and Krishna are mythological characters. I have not come across any historical evidence of either Ramayan or Maharbharat. Well that is your problem, you ahve a difficult time believing the existence of Ram so you theorize that Gurbani should not have spoken about Ram 'the Mythological character' when we are suppose to be lead away from 'false' deities. Again this goes back to don't bend Gurbani to your likes, bend yourself to the likes of Gurbani. Karmjeet brings upon a good point, reading the Sloaks of 9th Guru at the end of the Sloaks is your answer which clearly states that the 9th Guru ji was 'Seasoned' with the Guru lineage. When Guru ji clearly says "Kahio Nanak " That Nanak Says, not Guru Teghbahadur ji. Another thing to not in The SGGS is that you will find before the beginning of Shabads or Saloaks it will say 'Ghar or Mehal', that 3th Mehal, 5th Ghar and so forth which implies that it is the 5th or 3th or 9th or 2nd House of Nanak. Furthermore you can understand that it was Guru Nanak's Jot in the other 9 Gurus.

LISTEN TO THIS BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN: http://www.evilcreations.net/pheena/SA/amrit_part_1.mp3 - 13.3MB http://www.evilcreations.net/pheena/SA/amrit_part_2.mp3 - 9.47MB

you need to listen to this....Its the recent Katha by Giani Sant Singh Maskeen ji on Amrit because you clearly have no idea what a Brahmin is. ..give me few mins to upload it.

ok Firstly you are incorrect in thinking that Ram the brother of Lakshman, the husband to Seeta, the one who triumped over Rawaan was a mythological creation. What makes you think that Ram was a mythological character? What about Krishna, was he a Mythological Character as well? If so then the whole of MahaBharat is a Myth? Am i correct so far? What you mean it will make more sense to you if....., it seems you are trying to Mold Gurbani to how it wuold make sense to you and not molding yourself to what gurbani is. If that is your approach to this, then surely you are not using the right methods. Gurbani is What it is. Don't think about changing Gurbani, think about Changing yourself.

veer, you are diggin way way way too much in which there is nothing there. Ram = God = Deity, depending on the context of the Shabad. i don't get your theory, nor does it make ne sense to me. But it could be just me. So please correct me if im wrong...but Im getting the feelign that you are allergic to the word RAM used by the Gurus when talking about God when in your views they should have used the words, Waheguru, Nanak and so forth? Am i correct so far?

What is written in the SGGS is what it is meant to say, not what it 'Should' Say. The Student is there to learn, but yet he is already trying to become a teacher.

r u trying to theorize why 6,7,8th Nanak's words are not included in the guru Granth sahib?

no veer, that is not what i meant to say. The more you progress in your spirituality, the lesser vulnerable you become. The Gurus were a manifestation of Allah himself, so it would be childish and ignorent for us to say that they were affected by such trivial good/bad vibration that are delivered by the orientation of planets. In my views i'd say 98-99% has to do with how your mind deals with such views. If you are a firm believe in such events, then surely your mind will expect such things to occur and sometimes even create a false sense of effects. If you are a firm believe that all is under his will, then it is just so, That 'ALL' is under his will. Reading Gurbani, Guru ji says that god himself protect his devotees from evil/bad things. Faith in God leads you more closer, than having faith in an Astrologer which leads you away. You become dependent upon the astrologer to lead you only thru the good events and defer the bad ones away thru the use of objects that shield you from the bad vibrations. Tho one thing to understand is that wearing those objects will not protect you 100%, it is like having an umbrella on a hot sunny day. So It would be incorrect to say that either paths are wrong, but it would be wise to follow that which leads you closer to divinity. Waheguru.

how is coming to such conclusions that the 'jatts' influenced the 6th Nanak to carry a sword not because to defend ourselves, (miri/Piri) but to adapt the 'jatt' way of life?? What??!!??

i was being kinda sarcastic about they being a happy family or not.... but at the same time a serious question about the origins of it. thanks.

Without your death, Love cannot happen. If at a glance you die, it will be that love that will kill you. If 'you' still are, then the love is still not 100%. So yes you can fall in love at a glance, Enlightenment happens in not a gradual process. rather it is an explosion. As Love will be an explosion and then only the lover is left.....'you' are no more. And that cannot happen between 2 ego-minds in a glance, because where I am, my lover is not....by no means is that definite, so its not impossible, but very very very, did i say very...yes a rare case. Hari said something about haqiqi ishk. Ranja and Heer, their love began as a Majaje Ishk, but it turned into Haqiqi ishk thru their lifetimes. Their example has been greatly used by the Sufi Fakeers, they have given their Guru the status of a Ranja, They have become Ranja themselves and said their Guru is Heer...or vice-versa. So their love was not just plain jane-doe love, rather it became Godly love. Well these are my views and im stickin to them as those slimy boogers to your fingers that don't wana come off.....eww....