Pheena

People come to me and say, "There was a great light during the meditation, but I lost it again. Infinite light was there, but it disappeared again. There was immense bliss, but where has it gone now?" Now they are searching for it again and cannot find it. A glimpse means you had come close. But glimpses are bound to be lost. Meditation can, at the most, give only a glimpse. But do not stop there; do not get stuck looking for that same glimpse again and again. The only purpose of meditation is that one gets a glimpse. Then one has to go ahead, into samadhi, into enlightenment, so that one becomes the very flower. In meditation is a glimpse; samadhi is being it. finger01 So whatsoever you want to play you can play, but forget the ends. If there are ends you have also turned meditation into a work. Just play it, enjoy it, love it. It is beautiful in itself. There is no need for any other end to beautify it. People come to me and they say, "We are enjoying meditation, but tell us what is going to happen. What will be the end result?" I tell them, "This is the end result—that you are enjoying. Enjoy it more!" But they go on insisting, "Tell us something about it. What will be the end result? Where will we reach to?" They are not concerned at all where they are; they are always concerned with where they will reach to. The mind cannot exist in the present so it goes on giving you excuses to move into the future. Those excuses are the desires. So if you desire to be a god, to be a buddha, your meditation will be a sort of desire, and then it is not meditation. If you don't desire anything, you just enjoy being here, you just celebrate being alive, you enjoy the inner energy playing in imagination, in visions, in emptiness, whatsoever you choose, and you are totally one with this moment of enjoyment, then it is meditation. Then there is no desire, and, with no desire, the world drops. With a nondesiring, playful mind you have entered. You are already in it. But this has to be hammered into your mind again and again because your mind is a transformer. It transforms anything into a desire—anything; it can transform even nondesire into a desire. People come to me and they say, "How does one achieve the state of nondesire? How to achieve the state of nondesire?" Now this has become the desire. Your mind has a transforming mechanism: whatsoever you put in will come out as a desire. Be alert of this and enjoy moments so much that no energy is left to move into the future. Then, any day, any moment, it will happen to you that suddenly all the darkness falls; suddenly all that is a burden disappears; suddenly you are freed. But the emphasis should be more and more on play, the present, here and now—and less and less on the future. vbt68

actually this is the first time i have heard of Esoteric Groups. i thought it was intersting what Osho said. One has to experience this to know if they really exist it seems.

Before we talk about the first sutra of Patanjali, a few other things have to be understood. First, yoga is not a religion—remember that. Yoga is not Hindu, it is not Mohammedan. Yoga is a pure science just like mathematics, physics or chemistry. Physics is not Christian, physics is not Buddhist. If Christians have discovered the laws of physics, then too physics is not Christian. It is just accidental that Christians have come to discover the laws of physics. But physics remains just a science. Yoga is a science—it is just an accident that Hindus discovered it. It is not Hindu. It is a pure mathematics of the inner being. So a Mohammedan can be a yogi, a Christian can be a yogi, a Jaina, a Buddhist can be a yogi. Yoga is pure science, and Patanjali is the greatest name as far as the world of yoga is concerned. This man is rare. There is no other name comparable to Patanjali. For the first time in the history of humanity, this man brought religion to the state of a science: he made religion a science, bare laws; no belief is needed…. Yoga is concerned with your total being, with your roots. It is not philosophical. So with Patanjali we will not be thinking, speculating. With Patanjali we will be trying to know the ultimate laws of being: the laws of its transformation, the laws of how to die and how to be reborn again, the laws of a new order of being. That is why I call it a science. Patanjali is rare. He is an enlightened person like Buddha, like Krishna, like Christ, like Mahavira, Mohammed, Zarathustra, but he is different in one way. Buddha, Krishna, Mahavira, Zarathustra, Mohammed, no one has a scientific attitude. They are great founders of religions. They have changed the whole pattern of human mind and its structure, but their approach is not scientific. Patanjali is like an Einstein in the world of Buddhas. He is a phenomenon. He could have easily been a Nobel Prize winner like an Einstein or Bohr or Max Planck, Heisenberg. He has the same attitude, the same approach of a rigorous scientific mind. He is not a poet; Krishna is a poet. He is not a moralist; Mahavira is a moralist. He is basically a scientist, thinking in terms of laws. And he has come to deduce absolute laws of human being, the ultimate working structure of human mind and reality. And if you follow Patanjali, you will come to know that he is as exact as any mathematical formula. Simply do what he says and the result will happen. The result is bound to happen; it is just like two plus two, they become four. It is just like you heat water up to one hundred degrees and it evaporates. No belief is needed: you simply do it and know. It is something to be done and known. That's why I say there is no comparison. On this earth, never a man has existed like Patanjali. You can find in Buddha's utterances, poetry—bound to be there. Many times while Buddha is expressing himself, he becomes poetic. The realm of ecstasy, the realm of ultimate knowing, is so beautiful, the temptation is so much to become poetic, the beauty is such, the benediction is such, the bliss is such, one starts talking in poetic language. But Patanjali resists that. It is very difficult. No one has been able to resist. Jesus, Krishna, Buddha they all become poetic. The splendor, the beauty, when it explodes within you, you will start dancing, you will start singing. In that state you are just like a lover who has fallen in love with the whole universe. Patanjali resists that. He will not use poetry; he will not use a single poetic symbol even. He will not do anything with poetry; he will not talk in terms of beauty. He will talk in terms of mathematics. He will be exact, and he will give you maxims. Those maxims are just indications what is to be done. He will not explode into ecstasy; he will not say things that cannot be said; he will not try the impossible. He will just put down the foundation, and if you follow the foundation you will reach the peak which is beyond. He is a rigorous mathematician—remember this. yoga101

Waheguru, Thanks for sharing. Waheguru.

You ask me how I am connected with any esoteric group. If you can be in contact with one, you can be in contact with all. It is just a matter of tuning. If your radio can work with one station, there is no difficulty in its working with another. If the mechanism is working rightly, you can catch any station around the world. If you can be in contact with one esoteric group, you can be in contact with all. You may not want to be in contact, you may want it, but once you know the tuning you can be in contact. And many times you come across a secret school but you lose the opportunity, you lose the track. Whatsoever I am saying is in many ways esoteric. That is why many times I become very confusing to you. Any exoteric teaching is never confusing, it is clearcut. It is just like two plus two equals four, it is always a simple thing. But the esoteric, the inner, the secret, is difficult to understand, because your understanding becomes disturbed with any new knowledge which has to be absorbed. Any knowledge that you know, you can absorb easily. It can become a part of you; you can easily digest it. Anything which is new to you is hard to digest. And no esoteric knowledge can be delivered in mathematical terms. It has to be delivered mystically, it has to be delivered poetically. Then it becomes living. It means many things simultaneously. I have been in contact with many esoteric groups. I have known many persons who are still alive who belong to some group. I have known many keys which were delivered by authentic teachers. But no key of the old tradition is enough, so I am devising new keys. Because I am devising new keys, I am not directly concerned with any esoteric group, as each esoteric group is interested in and is entrusted with a particular key to preserve. I am not interested in a particular key. I am interested in devising new methods, new techniques, new keys, because all the old keys have become in many ways irrelevant. One thing has to be understood, that all these keys were developed in a world which was local, always local. For the first time, we are in a world which is absolutely nonlocal, universal. Really, for the first time we are in a world. Before, we were always confined to a particular part of the world. All those keys were developed for particular local conditions and cultures. Now, for the first time the world is, in a way, a mixed-up mess. There is no particular culture, there is no particular conditioning. Everything is mixed up. And soon this is going to be more and more the case. Soon there will be a world citizen with no local background at all but with a universal background. Before this century ends, we will need—we are already in need of—keys which are universal…. All local keys developed in a world which was divided. There was no universal mind—there never has been as far as our so-called knowledge of history is concerned. Sometimes this phenomenon of a universal mind has happened, but that is beyond our civilization, that is beyond our memory. This phenomenon of a universal mind has happened previously but that has been completely forgotten. I have known so many esoteric groups—in this life and before. I have been in contact with many esoteric groups, but I cannot tell you their whereabouts. I cannot tell you their names, because that is not permitted. And it is of no use really. But I can tell you that they still exist, they still try to help…. You can also be in contact with some esoteric group. There are techniques and methods. But then you will have to do much work upon yourself. As you are, you can never be in contact. You will just pass by an esoteric circle but you will not even be able to detect it. You will have to change yourself, tune yourself for new dimensions, for new vibrations to be felt; you will have to be sensitive. Then you will not ask me, "Have you been in contact with an esoteric group?" You will know just by sitting near me, you will know just by looking into my eyes. You will feel just by hearing my words, or even by hearing my silence. You will understand. But that will come only if you change yourself, attune yourself for the new reality—if you open yourself for new dimensions. Esoteric groups are and always have been there. Only you are closed—closed in thought, closed in thinking, closed within yourself, with no opening, no window, no door. The sky is there—just open the window, and you will know the sky and the stars. Howsoever far off they may be, just by opening your window, which is so near, you come in contact with far-away stars. In a way, it is illogical: by opening such a near window, how can you come in contact with far-away stars? If I tell you, "Open this window behind you and then you will come in contact with the whole universe," you will say, "It is absurd. Just by opening this window, which is so near, how can I be in contact with what is so far?" But it is so. Open a window in your mind, make a meditative window, and you will be in contact with so many far-away lights, with so many happenings which are always around. Just around the corner, just around you, everything is happening. But you are blind or asleep or just unaware. I am here; you cannot conceive of what is happening here. You cannot conceive of it!… Buddha passes through a village…and no one recognizes him. His own father does not recognize him; even with his own wife there is no recognition. I am here! You cannot recognize what is inside, only the outside is known. You only become acquainted with the outside. That is how it should be. You are not in contact with your own innerness, so how can you be in contact with mine? That is an impossibility. It becomes easy if you are in contact with your own innerness. Then you can be in contact with my innerness, or innerness as such. Otherwise, you will just go on asking me, and I will continue answering you. Then everything just misses the point. But I answer you not in order that you should get the answer from my answer. No, I never hope against hope, I never hope that my answer can become your answer. I know very well that my answer is of no use to you. But then why do I go on answering your questions? I go on answering not in order that my answer will become your answer, but because if you can listen to me silently, totally, in that silent listening you will come directly upon your own innerness. Suddenly it can explode in you, suddenly you can be in another world that is completely different from any in which you have been living. And if that happens, then you have come into a new existence. That new existence is your own. It is an esoteric, inner secret. That inner existence has all these things. gate08 In any inner feeling, any inner realization, if you become doubtful whether it is true or imaginary, then it is certainly imaginary—because the Truth is so self-evident that you cannot doubt it. The doubting mind just disappears. So sometimes someone comes to me and says, "Tell me whether my kundalini has risen or not. My teacher says my kundalini has risen, so tell me." So I tell them that unless it becomes self-evident to you, do not believe anyone. When that phenomenon happens, you will not go to ask anyone whether it has happened or not. If someone comes and asks you, "Tell me whether I am alive or not," what will you say to him? Certainly he is dead! Even if this has to be asked, then certainly he is dead. Life is a self-evident fact; no proof is needed. How do you feel your life? Do you have any proof of it? Is there any proof? How do you feel your life? How do you know you are alive? Is there ever a doubt whether "I am alive or not"? ultal110 The lines traced on the body are a very superficial phenomenon. Deep within is the mind. The mind with which you are familiar, however, does not exist deep down; it is superficial. Deep down there is a mind which you do not know at all. The centers that exist deep within this body alone, which Yoga calls chakras, are the accumulated forms of many lives. One who knows can, by placing his hand on a particular chakra, discover how active it is. By touching your seven chakras, it can be known whether you have ever experienced them or not. I have experimented with the chakras of hundreds of people, and I have been surprised to find that at the most one or two—and only rarely three—chakras have begun to be activated; generally, they remain dormant. You have never used them, but they are your past. If a man who has experienced them comes to me and I can see that all his seven chakras are in motion, then it can be said that this is his last birth. Then there will be no next birth, because if all seven chakras are in motion, then there is no possibility of a next life. This life will be nirvana, this life will be liberation. hidden05

A friend came yesterday. He is an intelligent person and has great regard for me. He told me, "Why do you not perform some miracle like Sai Baba? Thousands will flock to you." What use are these thousands of people? What shall I do with them? They come not because of Sai Baba but because of the miracles. If even one came for the sake of Sai Baba it would be more fruitful. One who comes for miracles is not a theist. A theist is one who says, "Everything in this world is a miracle. There is nothing that is not a miracle A seed turns into a tree; clouds move in the sky; the sun comes out, there are stars; there are birds and animals; there is man—everything is a miracle!" He who sees no miracle in all this is impressed by the ash that comes out of the hands of a miracle-man. That the sun comes out is no miracle to this blind man, but a little ash drops from this man's hand and he is impressed! The intelligence that believes in this ash is not the intelligence that can go God-ward. Lakhs of people are bound to gather, but this crowd will be the crowd that gathers to watch a magic show. It has nothing to do with religion. The stories woven around Mahavira, Christ or Rama are downright false but the devotee, out of sheer frustration invents them. Otherwise his God does not look distinctive from the rest of mankind. So he says, "When Mohammed walked, even on the sunniest day a cloud moved along with him. The devotee has to say all this because his logic is the same as the atheist's; he has the same intelligence. One who sets out to look for miracles does not have the heart of a devotee. Is there anything in this world that is not a miracle? Show me a single thing that is not a miracle! This whole world is a miracle! Is it not a miracle that you are? There is no reason why you should be. The world would have no complaint if you were not. But you are—a complete living entity. It never occurs to us that there is no reason why we should exist. The world would have got on just as well without us. Yet we are! We do not know who creates us; we do not know who destroys us, who brings us into existence, who takes us out of it. We do not know. Is this not a great miracle that is taking place every moment of our existence? And here are we flocking to see a man who takes a little ash out of his hands! Lack of intelligence makes such things appear like miracles. If man is intelligent, the whole world appears to be a miracle. Otherwise, we have to invent devices to prove that Rama is God, Krishna is God. I do not say they are not. What I mean to say is that everything on this earth is God. Everything here is divine. There is nothing on this earth which is not God. way204 Fools are always searching for something esoteric—only nonsense appeals to them. And sometimes I talk nonsense, because I am not here only to help those who are not fools. I am also throwing my net wider and wider; some fools have to be caught by me too. They are good people!… There is a deep urge in man to know things which are worthless, to know things which make you feel special—because only you know those things and nobody else does. Man wants to be special, and nothing makes you more special than so-called esoteric knowledge. That is why esoteric knowledge remains important. All kinds of rubbish go on in the name of esoteric knowledge—that the earth is hollow, that inside the earth there are great civilizations. And there are people who still believe in it, and in many more such stories. Man lives such a dull and drab life that he wants some sensation. Those who are a little wiser, they read scientific fiction or detective stories. Those who are not so wise, they read spiritual fiction. And these things were said by me when I was surrounded by a certain group of fools. They were not interested in anything else. And I have to respond to you; as you grow, my responses will be higher and higher. The day you have understood the whole stupidity of the human mind I will not need to talk to you; just sitting silently will be more than enough. These things were told by me to a certain group of people who were only interested in those things. It would have been absolutely pointless to talk about anything else with those people. Now that they have almost disappeared, and now that a totally different quality has come here, I can go more into the world of the truth. But still I have to use words, and words distort. Only silence communicates the truth as it is. wisdom10

Deja Vu... its only a glitch in the Matrix.

good question Crocodile Singh. So how exactly is that you begin to realize that you are dreaming in other words How do you become Aware in your own dreams??

Many Sants and Fakeers were born in Poor Families.

i heard once that when u say "I've Falled in love" you are stating teh Worldy things/persons. When you Begin to love God, You will Rise to Love God.

oh i c what you are trying to ask....my apologies. Normal for them is what they have been doing for their infinite past lives. Live Eat Die. Waheguru has blessed you with the Thirst for something Greater, The thirst of himself. I can definetly understand the difficulty that your own parents are trying to hold you back. But PLEASE don't let them persuade you into leaving the path our Gurus have set for us. Try to explain it to them that you find happiness in what you do. In My Opinion, you are not being selfish at all. How can one consider taht being selfish to have to want to meet Waheguru which is the mother of all Mothers. One cannot deny the right to meet ones creator. No one has the right to stop you from meeting the Akal Purk. I have an Aunt who is very Spiritual. She used to Sneak out of the house to go to SadSangat. She would tell her Husband that she is going to stay with her daughter, but she would instead go to SadSangat and do seva. My mother would know where she is just in case. but her desire for the Guru was so strong that no Family could tie her down. She did what her heart told her to do. Today just to be near her is a blessing. That could not have happened if she didn't follow her heart. If she instead followed her family and what her husband wanted to do, she wuold be still stuck in the Samsara, but when she talks about it, she says it only happened thru the blessing of Waheguru that her husband gained the understanding that he could not controll her. That she wanted to go to SadSangat and wanted to walk on this path of spirituality. Understand that more people hold you back the greater your faith and desire will become. For only if there is an opposite can one realize what they have. Your parents are trying to hold you back, but you want to go forward. Make use of that energy that your parents spend on you to live their "normal" lives and turn it into something positive. For it will give you all the more reasons to follow the path to god. Don't get angry at them, but instead turn that Anger and Frustration into Prayer. Use that Energy into something Positive. Make you prayer even deeper. Now that does not mean Ignore your parents and just do whatever you want to do. You have to take a middle ground in this situation, where you don't fall into their 'Normality" but you don't also lose the path of our Gurus. So don't approach this with Gung-ho way, just ignoring everyone. Afterall they are your parents, You must try to reason with them and Prayer is your best Aid, Pray that waheguru blesses them with the understanding of what you are trying to make them realize. I can only imgaine what you must go thru with your parents about this. I hope this helps and may waheguru bless you with more strenght to endure this pull from your parents and may he also bless them with the understanding. Waheguru.

Veer, There is a Shabad in Asa di Vaar. I was listening to Sant Maskeen ji's Translation of Asa Di Vaar and I Clearly remember him mentioning this that When we set on the path of Rightousness, That I want to go Sangat, That I want to follow the Hukam of Waheguru, That I want to build a Gurudwara. That is the cure of Ego which is contained in itself. Sooner or Later you will realize that all Along it was him who was the Doer, not you.

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i have the Translation of his Writing if you need them.....it might take me a while, cause they are on a video and i'd have to transfer them to Audio. If you desire them i will spend my time doing them for you, which is not a Problem AT ALL for me ...but you'd really have to want them. 8) Waheguru

Tad Niskala by Adi Shankaracharya Om, I am neither the mind, intelligence, ego nor 'chitta', neither the ears nor the tongue, Nor the senses of smell and sight, neither ether nor air. I am Eternal Bliss and Awareness, I am Shiva! I am Shiva! I am neither the 'prana' nor the five vital breaths, neither the seven elements of the body, Nor its five sheaths, nor hands, nor feet, nor tongue, nor other organ of action. I am Eternal Bliss and Awareness I am Shiva! I am Shiva! Neither fear, greed, nor delusion, loathing, nor liking have I, nothing of pride, of ego, Of 'dharma' or Liberation, neither desire of the mind, nor object of its desiring. I am Eternal Bliss and Awareness I am Shiva! I am Shiva! Nothing of pleasure and pain, of virtue and vice, do I know, of mantra, of sacred place, Of Vedas or sacrifice, neither I am the eater, the food or the act of eating. I am Eternal Bliss and Awareness I am Shiva! I am Shiva! Death or fear, I have none, nor any distinction of 'caste', neither Father nor Mother, Not even a birth, have I, neither friend, nor comrade, neither disciple, nor Guru. I am Eternal Bliss and Awareness I am Shiva! I am Shiva! I have no form or fancy, The All-pervading am I, everywhere I exist, and yet I am beyond the senses, Neither salvation am I, nor anything to be known. I am Eternal Bliss and Awareness I am Shiva! I am Shiva!

I might have confused it with Sant Kabeer ji....i always seem to do that.

I belive you are on the right track.....i was litening to Sant Maskeen ji's Viakhia on the Saloaks of Shaik Fareed. In it he did mention that some of the Saloaks were written by the successor of the Gaddi of Baba Sheik Fareed. I can't remember the name of that Sant, but he had used the name Fareed when he wrote the Saloaks as a Honor to the baba fareed ji.

I have been asked to tell you what Christians believe, and I am going to begin by telling you one thing that Christians do not need to believe. If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all those religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth. When I was an atheist I had to try to persuade myself that most of the human race have always been wrong about the question that mattered to them most; when I became a Christian I was able to take a more liberal view. But, of course, being a Christian does mean thinking that where Christianity differs from other religions, Christianity is right and they are wrong. As in arithmetic--there is only one right answer to a sum, and all other answers are wrong; but some of the wrong answers are much nearer being right than others. The first big division of humanity is into the majority, who believe in some kind of God or gods, and the minority who do not. On this point, Christianity lines up with the majority--lines up with ancient Greeks and Romans, modern savages, Stoics, Platonists, Hindus, Mohammedans, etc., against the modern Western European materialist. Now I go on to the next big division. People who all believe in God can be divided according to the sort of God they believe in. There are two very different ideas on this subject. One of them is the idea that He is beyond good and evil. We humans call one thing good and another thing bad. But according to some people that is merely our human point of view. These people would say that the wiser you become the less you would want to call anything good or bad, and the more clearly you would see that everything is good in one way and bad in another, and that nothing could have been different. Consequently, these people think that long before you got anywhere near the divine point of view the distinction would have disappeared altogether. We call a cancer bad, they would say, because it kills a man; but you might just as well call a successful surgeon bad because he kills a cancer. It all depends on the point of view. The other and opposite idea is that God is quite definitely 'good' or 'righteous,' a God who takes sides, who loves love and hates hatred, who wants us to behave in one way and not in another. The first of these views--the one that thinks God beyond good and evil--is called Pantheism. It was held by the great Prussian philosopher Hegel and, as far as I can understand them, by the Hindus. The other view is held by Jews, Mohammedans and Christians. And with this big difference between Pantheism and the Christian idea of God, there usually goes another. Pantheists usually believe that God, so to speak, animates the universe as you animate your body: that the universe almost is God, so that if it did not exist He would not exist either, and anything you find in the universe is a part of God. The Christian idea is quite different. They think God invented and made the universe--like a man making a picture or composing a tune. A painter is not a picture, and he does not die if his picture is destroyed. You may say, 'He's put a lot of himself into it,' but you only mean that all its beauty and interest has come out of his head. His skill is not in the picture in the same way that it is in his head, or even in his hands. I expect you see how this difference between Pantheists and Christians hangs together with the other one. If you do not take the distinction between good and bad very seriously, then it is easy to say that anything you find in this world is, a part of God. But, of course, if you think some things really bad, and God really good, then you cannot talk like that. You must believe that God is separate from the world and that some of the things we see in it are contrary to His will. Confronted with a cancer or a slum the Pantheist can say, 'If you could only see it from the divine point of view, you would realise that this also is God.' The Christian replies. 'Don't talk damned nonsense.'* For Christianity is a fighting religion. It thinks God made the world--that space and time, heat and cold, and all the colours and tastes, and all the animals and vegetables, are things that God 'made up out of His head' as a man makes up a story. But it also thinks that a great many things have gone wrong with the world that God made and that God insists, and insists very loudly, on our putting them right again. *One listener complained of the word damned as frivolous swearing. But I mean exactly what I say--nonsense that is damned is under God's curse, and will (apart from God's grace) lead those who believe it to eternal death. And, of course, that raises a very big question If a good God made the world why has it gone wrong? And for many years I simply refused to listen to the Christian answers to this question, because I kept on feeling 'whatever you say, and however clever your arguments are, isn't it much simpler and easier to say that the world was not made by any intelligent power? Aren't all your arguments simply a complicated attempt to avoid the obvious?' But then that threw me back into another difficulty. My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist--in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless -I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality--namely my idea of justice--was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning.

I haven't read any part of our Guru sahib that refers to Astronomy/Horoscopes....because i think the path taht Gurus have set for us does not relate to the Horoscopes, because it creates many superstitions. One Has to believe whatever happens is the doing of God and agree with his will. Horoscopes open up another possibility of believing in a person who tells you what your future holds so a bond is created with that person. You begin to live according to the guidence of that person, not with the guidence of the Guru. Horoscopes in the Newspapers are very General in a sense that EVERYONE born in a set of 3 months are giong to have the same problems. And in Generalization you can always find those who that specific Horoscope does relate to. Its a Hit and Miss Situation. The Ancient Hindu Study of Astrology is a Great Study for it has the Shastars backing it up and if Puratan Rishi can obtain great Knowledge on the Body thru yoga, i am very convinced that Astrology is a very much reality. The only thing is in the Present time very few people have the know how on this Study and rest are just there as Entertainment for the people. This is how i understand this Astrology/Palm Reading of Ancient Indian not the Newspaper one. It is like looking thru Binaculors but they are Fuzzy, so you can't make out everything, but few things you can see. So one looks into your Future/Current life and sees few things written on your foreheads and on your palm, looks at your Date of Birth, He narrows things down, as they are not Crystle clear but you can make them out. My mother had my Janam patri made when i was born, the man told my mother that there is a Groah (distrubance) in my eyes and the rest of me is fine. So no problems till i hit 16 years old i started to have problems with my eyes and later found out i had a Disease which can be controlled but not cured. Now one can say its a lucky guess, but then who knows. I belive it is a Great Study, but very few people posses the knowledge on it.

Are you talking about the Hororscopes you find in the newspapers of today ot the Indian Astrology that go as far back as the Vedas.

Ok I'll make it real Simple for you. Obviously What i said made no sense to you if so then nothing i will say after this will either. This is becoming pointless as you cannot grasp what i am trying to say, yet somewhere in there we both agreed on something. So Either way, you have gotten no where with me as have I with you. Life your life to the fullest according to the Budhee waheguru has blessed you with, as will I. God Bless. :!:

Your bowing of your head to other in shame has hidden ego which wants praise from other that look how honest this person is, that he is calling himself a sinner. Your are getting proud of your Truthfullness even if it shows your wrongness. That is Ego hidden within Ego. Calling yourself a Sinner does not give you the right to call others Sinners, simply because you have made it obvious to other that you are a sinner. You are a Student who does not even follow the Rehat himself, but yet you point that mistakes in other?? What makes you the judge to justify my wearing a necklace a bad thing? What Criteria are you using which you have used on yourself, that you have taken and accepted in your life. Who made you the Judging Factor in this?? Have you Experienced that wearing a Necklace makes your Greed and Desire for Gold grow Stronger? You have only Read it. I have no greed for gold, therefore if i wear gold, it does not affect my mind. It is there, half of the time i don't even know i have it on, i don't show it off to other because it is after all only metal. There are those who show off their Shastars to other as if they are great Wariors. If Gold is Bad then why is Harmandir Sahib Wraped around Gold?? Again It is the Greed Which lies not in the Gold but within the Mind that is Root of Sin. Not Gold itself. Gold does not Attach itself to you, you attach youself to the Gold. It is not he gold that is the Killer it is the GREED/DESIRE/ATTACHMENT/ for the Gold. Only if you can get that in your head. You know if God is going to Punish me for Wearning a Necklace then let it be. I will take that Punishment for it will be my own doing not yours. I thank you for trying to save me when you are drowning yourself. You see the difference between you and me is that you say all these thing which you youself don't follow. What i say is that i speak from Experience. You read and you preach. I experience and so i speak on what i have "Experienced". If you truely wanted other to follow the Rehat you would have followed it yourself first to the fullest. You want to nitpick on my Necklace, but yet you yourself wear Expensive Clothes??????. Then What right does it give you to call me Wrong?? That is being a Hypocrit. You youself don't follow the Rehat but you want me to do it?? If you think you can Read Something and start to Preach other what you have not experience, your preaching is Dry and will not affect a single soul becuase it has no foundation. If you Practice what you Preach then your preaching is Complete and Honest. Come back when you have taken Amrit and follow the Rehat Fully. Then and ONLY then does it give you the right to preach to non-Amritdharis like me. I would even Listen to you because you are Preaching what you are practising for you have experienced what i have not.

you my friend have no grounds to talk, for you are not even considered a Sikh by the same Rehat which you profoundly preach. You tell me that the necklace i wear is wrong, but who are you to make that claim. YOu are preaching from a Rehat which does not even entitle you the right to call yourself a Sikh. Become a Sikh of the Guru according to the Rehat which you preach then it gives you the right to preach other about the Rehat. Until then keep it to yourself. Waheguru.

im just glad it helped you... Waheguru

a porno book...wow dude u might want to watch what you say unless you are absolutly sure about your claims.